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New Focus School Ideas


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To all operator fans, it has been too long, we need something fresh, a new mechanic to enjoy more than operator fashion, we need a new focus school. This new focus school should emphasize on operator movement, weapons, and combat mode. I don’t know what we’ll get with Duviri but we definitely need a revamp. I have been playing a lot of mortal shell, was thinking how cool it is when you get a fatal blow you get soul punched out of your shell. I love the idea of integrating the same mechanic in Warframe and maybe eliminate revives.

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Agreed we need more operator content. I don`t like the idea of making them be used as a tool, they might as well be a companion. I am planning to put up a post about the operators and talk about improvements to the focus schools and their movement. Just a snip-it of it, I would like to see void melee weapons that visually look like Excal`s exalted blade and they will have bonuses based on the focus school you pick, one thing for sure if DE add this to the operators Naramon will be fun to use.

if I remember, I will send you the link to the post when I put it up or if you want you can follow be then you will get the notification of it.

I do really like the operators but they need to be good on their own.

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22 hours ago, Rhymontic said:

we need a new focus school.

So on the one hand, I'd be happy with a Focus revamp because I think a lot of people are still dissatisfied with how the last two turned out. I personally hate the Lens system and Convergence gives me a migraine every time it pops, in addition to it generally favoring certain frames over others due to its ties to Affinity gathering.
It hasn't really been an issue to affect me too much though, because Energizing Dash (and Shadow Step before it) isn't actually too deep into the Focus pool. As with many players, the only things I actually use the Operator for are energy, revives, and whatever encounters need an Amp. 
Bluntly, if the goal was to make the Operator feel like a partner to the Warframe then I think the system has fallen flat, making the Operator into another tool in the arsenal at best, and an annoying hurdle we're arbitrarily required to jump over at worst, particularly now that Xaku overlaps with some of its most basic functionality.

So a Focus revamp is extremely welcome, particularly with all of the new systems that have been added since Focus 2.0; Necramechs in particular are pretty glaring, as is Umbra.

However, I don't think we're getting a new Focus school, even to breathe new life into the system.

For starters: Five was already a lot to balance, and some of the schools are still considered superfluous while others only have 1-2 good perks outside of Way-bounds.
Naramon is extremely disjointed since the focus on stealth was removed, Unairu falls behind as a "defensive" school due to how little armor matters for most frames, and the only solid tools in Vazarin and Zenurik are Mending Unity/Soul and Energizing Dash, which hardly involve the Operator at all. You're basically just left with Madurai as an actual Operator-viable school, and even that's more reliant on external arcanes and amps to capitalize on.
(I should also point out that Naramon already includes benefits to Operator movement, since you specifically asked.)

Second: Lore. Each of the schools we have is based on one of the five eastern elements -- Madurai for Fire, Vazarin for Water, Unairu for Earth, Naramon for Wood and Zenurik for Metal. You can't really force another one in without pushing the idea of one as a "special bonus school, secret, lost to time, superior to all the others".

22 hours ago, Rhymontic said:

I have been playing a lot of mortal shell, was thinking how cool it is when you get a fatal blow you get soul punched out of your shell. I love the idea of integrating the same mechanic in Warframe and maybe eliminate revives.

Given that Operator mode is treated as a big spoiler within the story and mastery locked against new players, that would mean removing a necessary safety net for new players in favor of something their survivability depends on gaining a new wall to its acquisition.

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I would like the return of the old ultimate (the fire beam of madurai or healing pulse of vazarin for exemple), not like it was but more like an active ability you cast as operator + other actives fitting the focus school (with node in the focus tree to improve them). I miss the old crazy void magic T-T

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1 hour ago, Aisu9 said:

I would like the return of the old ultimate (the fire beam of madurai or healing pulse of vazarin for exemple), not like it was but more like an active ability you cast as operator + other actives fitting the focus school (with node in the focus tree to improve them). I miss the old crazy void magic T-T

I strongly support this!

It would be even better if only that ultimate interacts with the current warframe's mods like Ability strength, range, duration, efficiency
As I see for the operator, apart from the giant void beam(which should act as an ultimate last resort thing), all the other operator stuff should be about utility.
The amp itself should be allowed to be modded though. Even if it only can have like 4 mod spaces. (The current amp arcanes should be turned to mods)

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7 hours ago, Aisu9 said:

I would like the return of the old ultimate (the fire beam of madurai or healing pulse of vazarin for exemple), not like it was but more like an active ability you cast as operator + other actives fitting the focus school (with node in the focus tree to improve them). I miss the old crazy void magic T-T

I agree with this.

For instance, Hold-cast 5 for several seconds to charge up and cause a Limit Break-type effect -- something ridiculously powerful to the point of being broken, but fully harnessing the awesome power of the Void. It's on-cooldown when you enter the mission, so it's only usable in longer or higher-level missions.

Activation causes your Operator to hover over your Warframe, while causing Void energy to bleed out of the frame until the effect ends:

  • Madurai fires a beam with enough damage to insta-kill most non-boss enemies, like the beams in Void Defense, with a relatively short range.
  • Vazarin can instantly revive and full-heal people across the map, like old Blessing.
  • Unairu can give temporary invulnerability to the party with damage reflection.
  • Naramon can reset the entire map's alert level and temporarily prevent affected enemies from being alerted unless directly damaged.
  • Zenurik can temporarily negate the cost of allies' powers, including channeled effects, or give them a massive (but not snapshot-able) stat boost like the Reactant buff.

Once used though, it comes with a penalty to prevent overuse. Each use extends the subsequent cooldown, and causes a personal debuff to the player after the effect ends; sort of a "you've overextended yourself" deal, that flips the overpowered effects on their head. This way it's only used in direst emergencies since you might die if you use it too often (and it could just be annoying for you).

The Operator visibly sinks and fades from exhaustion. A debuff occurs for twice the length of the Operator ability, preventing the use of powers/passives while wiping buffs on the player, with an additional penalty dependent on the school:

  • Madurai gives the player a massive damage penalty (Dragon Key Squared) and disables their ability to use Finishers.
  • Vazarin causes a massive mobility penalty (Dragon Key Squared), and disables Parkour maneuvers.
  • Unairu drastically reduces maximum health, shields and armor (Super Transference Static), and disables the ability to Block damage.
  • Naramon deafens the player, increases Fog of War so you're just short of blind, and deactivates the HUD.
  • Zenurik causes the old Magnetic Disruption effect on the player when the buff ends, removing all energy and preventing energy generation.

Essentially, activation frontloads ALL of your potential within your school, leaving you temporarily bereft when it ends.

... of course, I have no delusions that implementing something so drastic wouldn't bug out and become permanent for the remainder of the mission, so it's a bit of a pipe dream.

Edited by Archwizard
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On 2020-12-02 at 5:11 AM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

What content would you like to see from operators?

Admittedly that is a pretty tough question.

For the most part it's hard because we're not sure what the Operator's "role" is, per se. My understanding is the majority of players just tag out to the Operator when it's strictly necessary to use, like while fighting Eidolons, or very occasionally for specific perks tied to their school. The first thing then is to re-examine on the large scale what the Operator is good for on its own, rather than just putting up walls for frames that the Operator must be used to overcome.

I find the best direction we have for that is to examine the most effective Operator abilities we've seen used outside of those niche encounters: those that buff the frame directly, supplying such effects as energy, cloaking, and so on. Most of the Focus nodes we see go untouched are those that benefit the Operator directly in ways that are considered inconsequential, like causing a direct damage effect from their Dash or Blast. The focus should be on phasing most of those out in favor of creating interplay between the frame and the Operator itself, so you're gently encouraged to use them together in an organic manner; if you play your frame to the strengths of your Focus school, you build up the Operator's own effectiveness, who in turn uses their powers to support the frame.

The second then is the question of "Operator Specific Content", which is a whole can of worms into itself but I think is what was meant by this question.

In that case, I'd like to propose a concept: do away with Convergence. Instead, you build up points in each school by doing Operator-specific or Operator-heavy missions for Teshin and the various Operator syndicates. Lenses can... stay... but have them be distillable, equipped to your Operator or Amp instead of your Frame.
Teshin could offer cycling missions geared towards each particular Focus school -- essentially, Training for your Focus, more of a traditional RPG leveling style. Madurai might get an Operator-limited Survival, while Naramon might be tasked with a stealth-oriented Exterminate, and Vazarin gets a Defense-type, that sort of thing. Maybe you can shake it up by choosing "unorthodox" schools for each one, like taking your Zenurik setup into the Survival instead.
Once you move on to other Operator syndicates, they'll offer missions geared for less specific Focuses, but higher level and with more variety in what they ask, so you have more freedom in how you can approach them. Necraloid for instance may ask you to capture and use Transference on some Ravenous Golden Maw counterpart in the Drift, or to sneak down to where the Heart is where your Warframe connection would be disrupted. The Quills may instead offer you an obstacle course within the Tower of the Unum, or task you with a special Hijack out in the Plains where you need to consume Vomvalysts to transport the tram while protecting it from the Eidolon, with bonuses based on your speed completing the mission. The more training you have in Teshin's missions to build your base Focus schools, the faster and easier these will be to do, earning you more methods to earn Focus affinity.

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On 2020-12-04 at 11:11 AM, Archwizard said:

The focus should be on phasing most of those out in favor of creating interplay between the frame and the Operator itself, so you're gently encouraged to use them together in an organic manner; if you play your frame to the strengths of your Focus school, you build up the Operator's own effectiveness, who in turn uses their powers to support the frame.

The second then is the question of "Operator Specific Content", which is a whole can of worms into itself but I think is what was meant by this question.

In that case, I'd like to propose a concept: do away with Convergence. Instead, you build up points in each school by doing Operator-specific or Operator-heavy missions for Teshin and the various Operator syndicates. Lenses can... stay... but have them be distillable, equipped to your Operator or Amp instead of your Frame.
Teshin could offer cycling missions geared towards each particular Focus school -- essentially, Training for your Focus, more of a traditional RPG leveling style. Madurai might get an Operator-limited Survival, while Naramon might be tasked with a stealth-oriented Exterminate, and Vazarin gets a Defense-type, that sort of thing. Maybe you can shake it up by choosing "unorthodox" schools for each one, like taking your Zenurik setup into the Survival instead.
Once you move on to other Operator syndicates, they'll offer missions geared for less specific Focuses, but higher level and with more variety in what they ask, so you have more freedom in how you can approach them. Necraloid for instance may ask you to capture and use Transference on some Ravenous Golden Maw counterpart in the Drift, or to sneak down to where the Heart is where your Warframe connection would be disrupted. The Quills may instead offer you an obstacle course within the Tower of the Unum, or task you with a special Hijack out in the Plains where you need to consume Vomvalysts to transport the tram while protecting it from the Eidolon, with bonuses based on your speed completing the mission. The more training you have in Teshin's missions to build your base Focus schools, the faster and easier these will be to do, earning you more methods to earn Focus affinity.

What you mentioned about the warframe and operator tag-team I was talking about for years. It could work with echoes of umbra I just hope DE hasn't forgotten about it.

Yh I like this, I was thinking of operator only missions also but you were specific, I like the whole missions strictly for a certain focus school, out of the five I would play Naramon` s mission the most. I made a operator mission myself where it like a raid and each mission can be done by a specific focus school, tell me what you think.

 

 

Edited by (PSN)Vexx757
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Personally, I don't mind focus in and of itself, I just think it's horribly used. It's currently used as both an end game 'using your XP on a max rank weapon' mechanic - this was confirmed a while back IIRC - but it's also being positioned as the main progression system for what is apparently a core system that's a fundamental part of the Campaign. It's like needing the player to get the Ultima spell, or the Masamune/Muramasa or so forth to progress through the last quarter of a Final Fantasy game.

I'd personally really like to see a core system rework. Leverage the Operator as the 'custom Warframe' by virtue of having customisable abilities. It uses a separate leveling system to focus and it offers a number of new base powers. Put void mode on interact instead as a toggle (I have some issues with it's pure invisibility/invulnerability for every frame thing as well) and set a couple of options for it. Keep the one focused on stealth as the default since you need it for TWW, but add a defensive aura, a movement focused aura and an aggressive one that get unlocked as you pass through the levelling system. Not super powerful, but still more than alright. Likewise, a number of variants for void blast - perhaps a continuous wave of damage that slows your movement, or a quick off-hand void beam that you can fire without slowing down or even whilst attacking. Then add swathes of mobility powers that players can pick a couple options from alongside void dash, like a hover, a powered-up sprint, souped up double-jumps. Perhaps take some inspiration from other games with more magic-y movement systems, to make sure they stay distinct from Warframe mobility.

You can custom create an Operator who's extremely fast if you like using them for their mobility, or they're as agile as a frame and have comparable combat prowess, which might come in handy for a frame that uses their powers more defensively. And on top of that, you have focus, which works much as it does now, providing bonuses and additional stats based on school.

 

In short, the Operator starts weak, gets alright with just core buffs, and then gets properly strong with focus. That's my hope with such a system. They probably shouldn't be as strong as Warframes, since they're also brought into battle alongside one. So sort of a 'mini-warframe' with different mobility and not quite as strong, but can be useful if your Warframe is specialised to one field.

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On 2020-12-07 at 6:06 AM, Loza03 said:

In short, the Operator starts weak, gets alright with just core buffs, and then gets properly strong with focus. That's my hope with such a system. They probably shouldn't be as strong as Warframes, since they're also brought into battle alongside one.

There's just one problem with this: We need to reconcile the "investment-to-power ratio" of an optional system, with its power creep potential on base progression.

Use of the Operator is required for several enemy encounters, Quests, Syndicates and even Mastery Rank Tests (even in the case of Xaku providing access to Void damage without it, some content still requires an Operator-specific touch), while Focus is balanced as a "perk" of the Operator, not actually necessary to reach those content "gates" (and often doing little to meaningfully impact them).

So you have the concept of making the Operator itself "properly strong" through the Focus system, in which the maximum potential Operator with a full Focus loadout could potentially steamroll over just those basic gates.
On the one-hand, what kind of content will be put out in the future to capitalize on Focus and continue to provide a meaningful challenge to the Operator?
And on the other, how would such changes affect additional content gates in the future? In essence, at what point does "optional" Focus grinding become necessary to progress?

... which is why I propose side-stepping the issue entirely.

Simply, we use Focus to create additional perks for using the Operator in tandem with the Warframe, without necessarily souping-up the Operator on its own.

We have decent examples already. As I said before, some of the most popular options were Naramon's Shadow Step (RIP), Zenurik's Energizing Dash and Vazarin's Mending Soul: use the Operator in a particular way, give a benefit to your Warframe. There's a handful of Operator Arcanes that would probably have been adapted for these purposes.

Edited by Archwizard
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One thing would like to see it for the operators to be included in conclave. Maybe they could replace warframe so that it gives them a use and their won`t be any jumping around. And the could be a game mode in conclave that`s like sega all`stars racing but with k-drives. I have put up a post two years back going into detail about the idea, take a look and tell me what you think.

 

 

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On 2020-12-01 at 8:23 AM, Rhymontic said:

we need a new focus school

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!

Or to be more Accurate... Not Yet...

I don't want a new Focus School while the old Focus Schools still need to be Reworked.... 

Do you really want a new Focus School built on top of this Old Inconsistent Foundation ?

On 2020-12-02 at 7:02 AM, Archwizard said:

So on the one hand, I'd be happy with a Focus revamp because I think a lot of people are still dissatisfied with how the last two turned out

Wait... I haven't played since Steel Path.... 

Did they Add two more Schools ? :O

 

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Just now, Lutesque said:

Wait... I haven't played since Steel Path.... 

Did they Add two more Schools ? :O

Nah, I was talking about the last two versions of Focus since it was introduced.

The first version had a lot more emphasis on the Warframe, with the major problem being that most of its skills required you to use the Focus cooldown ability to unlock them and that said cooldown would go up for each node in your Focus tree you had activated. A balancing mechanism I suppose to prevent players from feeling like they were at a massive disadvantage for not building their Focus tree, but perhaps the wrong mechanism entirely since it often meant it could not be used at all.

The second (current) version did away with most of that interactivity, however, in favor of emphasizing the Operator and building its natural abilities... which I think swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. The base Operator is incredibly weak, hardly worth using at all except for exactly the encounters and mechanics that require it in order to progress (like Eidolons/Ropalolyst/Profit-Taker); without delving into the Waybounds on the deep end of the tree, there's very little reason to build the Operator itself when you can just build your Amp externally, particularly since a lot of the Focus nodes to build its combat ability pale in comparison to the Warframe anyway.

If we get another revamp to Focus, it needs to find a middle ground between these two.
And also address how Focus points are acquired in the first place, because Convergence... ain't it, chief.

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On 2020-12-10 at 6:17 PM, Archwizard said:

And also address how Focus points are acquired in the first place, because Convergence... ain't it, chief

YES PLEASE !!!!

I mean I capped my focus on both my accounts but even I would appreciate this...

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