Bonewidow 2.0 Ability Changes

[Messkoo]

Greatly increasing the melee hit ranhe, like 10 meter, It fill ridiculous to swing the sword to difficulty hit ennemies .... and give him alternative attack combo than can dash, jump, move or spin. Some thing with to close distance between you and ennemies. The standard dash is to slow to use, or give it a auto melee strique in large aoe when you dash.

[(PSN)Ruskinya]

Please. Stop. Making. New. Necramechs! They are totally useless and outclassed by any Warframe. It'd be better if you focused on new Warframes or reworking/buffing the less used ones (like Valkyr/Hydroid/Frost). The logo is "WARFRAME - Ninjas Play Free", after all.

[(PSN)zlDalTon]

When Arcana for consoles ?!

[Godmode_Ash]

The idea of having Arch-melee as ultimate ability is not wrong. I actually love this idea. However, there are other relating issues hinder this ability:

1. An arch-melee should have 10m+ standard range. They are larger version of melee weapon, why is their range infeiror than normal melee?

2. Improve all arch-melee mod. Take a look at archgun, both archgun/arch-melee are suppose to be stronger than normal weapons. Arch-melee mods lack balance, require serious buff, and adding variety of additions. Idea such as adding more attack speed, better mods selection, and easier accessbility to those mod farming.

 

Please focus on Ironblade, its signture ability. If you get this ability correct, people will less likely to be upset even if the whole kit still has many bugs and animation issues.

 

[Hellmaker2004]

1. Meathook: Overall i love the changes, allowing it to heal is exactly what the Bonewidow needed. 
   Small question / bug report. After holding a foe for a very long time (Tested in Steel Path). They / Meathook stop healing Bonewidow, despite still holding a foe, is this intended behavior or is it a bug? It is not very clear in the tool tip. A recommendation would be that either this gets looked at, and either make it so that when it reaches the maximum capacity to automatically drop the foe, or optimally it gets fixed if it is a bug.
    
2. Shield Maiden: The changes make it better, but it still need a little bit more. Right now it is not very good to use on high level content, especially since Meathook now heals, and they can not be used at the same time. I understand we are not supposed to have a foe Hooked while we shield but then the shield needs a bit more.
   Increase the shield base value and give the shield a damage reduction after it has absorbed enemy damage, this damage reduction is applied to both the shield and Bonewidow.
    

3. Firing Line: Much better than before, make it a upper body animation only(Hinders you from using other abilities and weapons while casting, but not movement.) and it would be a great skill.
    

4. Exalted Ironbride: I am going to be honest, it still needs more. It still needs damage increase, and if it is not going to get status chance increase then it needs even more Critical strike chance increase and critical damage increase. We have to be honest here, it attacks slower, and with less range than the competition, and there has to be a advantage over using it, at least making it deal more damage, but with less status would still make it ok.
   What it needs more is move set, the three strike easily become boring and it got nothing to it that emphasize that it is a exalted weapon. My personal recommendation would be to change how the combo work, and give it a heavy strike attack. Make it so that the combo counter last 10 - 15 seconds, and that you build melee combo like normal melee weapons. However when you then use heavy strike, you release a wide slash dealing damage that is not only multiplied by the combo counter, but also creates a large massive wave, dealing the same damage (range falloff), with infinite punch trough. This will consume all combo accumulated.

I still have a few things to test but overall these are some of the things i would consider taking a look at.

[(PSN)CallmeBraindead_]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Ruskinya said:

Please. Stop. Making. New. Necramechs! They are totally useless and outclassed by any Warframe. It'd be better if you focused on new Warframes or reworking/buffing the less used ones (like Valkyr/Hydroid/Frost). The logo is "WARFRAME - Ninjas Play Free", after all.

You obviously haven't used voidrig's arquebex then, it's one of the best things in game atm, when they bring necramechs to regular missions it will be a beast

[ajingom]

good news. And I suggest. I think the damage of IRONBRIDE should increase. Compared to Voidrig's Guard Mode, I think it is far behind in terms of attack method, damage, and effectiveness.

[Godmode_Ash]

3 minutes ago, ajingom said:

good news. And I suggest. I think the damage of IRONBRIDE should increase. Compared to Voidrig's Guard Mode, I think it is far behind in terms of attack method, damage, and effectiveness.

Simply increase Ironbride dmg would just be a band-aid fix.

Arch-melee should have further better range like 10m, and better mods selection. I think its good time for them to address those issues since they might introduce more arch-melee.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2020-12-01 at 3:18 PM, Zandermanith222 said:

Is this thread unfinished? Meathook's throw still has no damage scaling, shield bash still has no damage scaling, shield maiden still can't reliably block damage in front of it, firing line isn't good at getting enemies together.

And why do I get the feeling the Damage Reflect is going to be 100% and thus completely useless?

How come you guys come up with so many solutions to these problems, but then proceed to forget about them when the next toy comes around?

Im like 90% sure they dont have anyone up there responsible for keeping up with that kind of stuff, and because of that its like watching a country try to keep progressing with no collection of their history (meaning history repeats itself)

Im also like 90% sure the moment they get a person who pays attention to warframes history will be the day where warframes updates will have peoples mouth watering, people will be playing the game far more often, and there would be far less reworks for things. 

Cause when i tell you history repeats itself with this game, lol

[(PSN)Ruskinya]

13 hours ago, (PSN)CallmeBraindead_ said:

You obviously haven't used voidrig's arquebex then, it's one of the best things in game atm, when they bring necramechs to regular missions it will be a beast

I did use Voidrig (leveled him up, forma'd, etc.) and the Arquebex, yes it deals A LOT of damage, but any good weapon deals a lot of damage. But that's the only good thing about Voidrig, everything else is just severely underpowered... and Bonewidow is utterly weak. In any case, I think the Devs should not focus on Necramechs as much as they are doing: fine, some people like them, but they are not that useful: they are slow, clunky, underpowered and not as versatile as the Warframes.

[Godmode_Ash]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Ruskinya said:

I did use Voidrig (leveled him up, forma'd, etc.) and the Arquebex, yes it deals A LOT of damage, but any good weapon deals a lot of damage. But that's the only good thing about Voidrig, everything else is just severely underpowered... and Bonewidow is utterly weak. In any case, I think the Devs should not focus on Necramechs as much as they are doing: fine, some people like them, but they are not that useful: they are slow, clunky, underpowered and not as versatile as the Warframes.

Exactly! People seem to not realize that, if you take away Voidrig's OP gun, he's just as bad as Bonewidow.

Warframe by default are faster, more variety, and easier to customize than Necramech. So in order for Bonewidow to be useful, her arch-melee needs to outclass warframe melee. Something like 10m+ standard range or every attack do AOE shockwave.

[Prexades]

No amount of fiddling with the numbers will be able to salvage this thing. Since a rework seems not to be on the table, just remove it, file it under lessons learned (hopefully) and move on.

[brxricano]

LOL cant wait until they just nerf Voidrig to be in line with Bonewidow from getting tired about hearing of this insane power gap. Keep discussing it though.

"Those who have more, give less." -Enegris Dumas

[(PSN)CallmeBraindead_]

8 hours ago, Godmode_Ash said:

Exactly! People seem to not realize that, if you take away Voidrig's OP gun, he's just as bad as Bonewidow.

Warframe by default are faster, more variety, and easier to customize than Necramech. So in order for Bonewidow to be useful, her arch-melee needs to outclass warframe melee. Something like 10m+ standard range or every attack do AOE shockwave.

take away Loki's radial disarm he's just as useless, take away Khora's whipclaw and/or Venari just as useless, take away spores from Saryn just as useless take away mesa's peacemakers, just as useless, I'm not trying to cause a whole arguement, but I want you to see the full picture,  many Warframes would useless if you took away a single ability, some abilities define certain things. Good recommendation for Ironbride, though, sadly it won't be added.

[Godmode_Ash]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)CallmeBraindead_ said:

take away Loki's radial disarm he's just as useless, take away Khora's whipclaw and/or Venari just as useless, take away spores from Saryn just as useless take away mesa's peacemakers, just as useless, I'm not trying to cause a whole arguement, but I want you to see the full picture,  many Warframes would useless if you took away a single ability, some abilities define certain things. Good recommendation for Ironbride, though, sadly it won't be added.

Agree about Saryn and Mesa but not for Loki or Khora. Loki one of best invi frame and can cheesy thru many game scenarios. Khora still good def frame especially solo farming endo in SP arena.

I agree few frames in are only good for 1 ability. But my point about Voidrig was referring to if DE make at least 1 skill from Bonewidow strong, people would be less upset.

[thor_sten]

Before we balance them, can you implement a use for Nekramechs in the first place? Currently they are only deployable in the open worlds and there they are only good in making the game harder. Why is it harder? Mostly because using a Nekramech robs me of mobility (and the AOE-Weapons my Warframe wields). Using them feels otherwise superfluous. Enemies in regular missions die rather quickly anyway, and doing the same, just with the numbers above them bigger is fun, but unnecessarry.

Going by the Heart of Deimos quest (and Mothers narration in the Isolation Vaults) they might have later a use for areas, where Warframes can't be used (like near to the Heart of Deimor, or perhaps in the parts of the voids the isolation vaults were build for). Perhaps we could use them some day as a tanks against the Isolation vault guards (currently they are a bit to brittle for this).

If there were such missions where they had a use, rather than being Ersatz-Warframes, we could actually balance them for something. Until then you'd have to balance them against Warframes and there they can pretty much only lose, because mobility. It's like k-drive vs. arkwing again.

[(PSN)CallmeBraindead_]

1 hour ago, Godmode_Ash said:

Agree about Saryn and Mesa but not for Loki or Khora. Loki one of best invi frame and can cheesy thru many game scenarios. Khora still good def frame especially solo farming endo in SP arena.

I agree few frames in are only good for 1 ability. But my point about Voidrig was referring to if DE make at least 1 skill from Bonewidow strong, people would be less upset.

ok, I understand now, but that other guy was saying that he thinks necramechs are completely useless at least that's how he phrased it, which isn't true, hense my reply

[(PSN)Ruskinya]

6 hours ago, (PSN)CallmeBraindead_ said:

ok, I understand now, but that other guy was saying that he thinks necramechs are completely useless at least that's how he phrased it, which isn't true, hense my reply

I do think Necramechs are useless. If they are implemented in regular missions, they are going to be only a hindrance: mobility? They are slow and can't perform parkour manouvers.  Abilities? They are very unerpowered (except for their 4) and don't provide support nor CC. Survivability? They have a great health pool, but that's it, any Warframe with a good build and Adaptation can take hits nowadays. Weapons? Why would I limit my arsenal to Archguns, when we have a plethora of Primary/Secondary/Melee weapons?

In the end, I wish the Devs focused more on Warframes and other forms of content, instead of these things, which might end up being forgotten.

[Godmode_Ash]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Ruskinya said:

I do think Necramechs are useless. If they are implemented in regular missions, they are going to be only a hindrance: mobility? They are slow and can't perform parkour manouvers.  Abilities? They are very unerpowered (except for their 4) and don't provide support nor CC. Survivability? They have a great health pool, but that's it, any Warframe with a good build and Adaptation can take hits nowadays. Weapons? Why would I limit my arsenal to Archguns, when we have a plethora of Primary/Secondary/Melee weapons?

In the end, I wish the Devs focused more on Warframes and other forms of content, instead of these things, which might end up being forgotten.

I agree with your first paragraph very much, but disagree on the last one. I think if they completely focus on warframe, it will just end up having 10,000 more frames. Even then, there will be other issues such as balancing them all.

The idea of mech is good IMO, it's a fresh new concept that attacts new and old players' attention. However, their approach is wrong. Remember from one of the devstream long time ago, [DE]Steve said something similar to, "if players can loot and shoot on the k-drive, why would anyone get off?" Well look at K-drive now, shouldn't we be asking the question the other way around?

I think DE had released too many accidental OP stuff in the past, so they are afraid to repeat the same mistakes. This type of approach is wrong because every new stuff will look cool but pointless to be actually use. DE has great artwork, sound, animation teams, but their balancing and game code really need to step up.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

On 2020-12-01 at 2:02 PM, [DE]Megan said:

EXALTED IRONBRIDE: 

• Radial ragdoll added to 3rd melee strike with the ability to Critical hit - but not full knock back as to keep enemies contained within striking distance.

• Exalted Ironbride now has a slight aim assist that will help prevent over swing.

 

Hmmmmmmm  there are lots of weapons and abilities that ragdoll+knockback.   It looks like you are finally taking this feedback that knock-back SUCKS into account...........   Can knockback be removed from the game?????   Knocking DOWN = great,  Knocking BACK = garbage. 

[-Ironheade-]

Soo, after getting around to playing her a bit more in Iso Vaults these changes are a clear improvement but still not quite enough to make her viable compared to Voidrig.

Meathook is fine now imo. The life steal makes it a really useful ability that greatly increases the mechs survivability. The hitboxes are still a little strange at times, but it‘s workable.

Shield Maiden is still lackluster as it‘s still unreliable at blocking damage even from the front. To compete with Storm Shroud in any shape or form it absolutely needs to block each and every point of damage coming in from the front, maybe even reflecting it with a hefty multiplier, since enemy damage is pityful compared to their HP and armour.

Firing Line is alright i guess. Not the most useful ability around but also not terrible.

Exalted Ironbride... oh boy this is not good and a huge reason why is the sad state of Archmelee mods. Mods like Furor (+10% Attack Speed at max rank) are in dire need of adjustments. Using her exalted melee needs to provide any kind of advantage compared to just shooting stuff with the Mausolon (or any Archgun really) to justify the energy investment and atm it really doesn‘t.

[sorcer3r]

Xaku round 3 ???

[Prexades]

Hey, give the Bonewidow the Wise Razor stance for melee. It is another thing you fu up in 29.5. so why not keep your failures together?

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Shield bashing shouldn't cost energy. 

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Move "Exalted Ironbride" to [Primary fire/ right trigger] and leave "Maidens Kiss" on [melee attack] at all times 

It's kinda stupid to have "Maidens Kiss" shuffling back and forth between two buttons, Should Be Consistent.

Also, "Exalted Ironbride" or "Shield Maiden" often breaks, either continuing to shield bash on both [melee] and [primary fire] forcing recast of "Exalted Ironbride" to be able to use the sword, or the Sword *no combo attacks* and drains energy on every swing like a shield bash