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Yet another complaint thread about kuva liches and yet another set of proposed solutions


(PSN)Ezithar

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10 hours ago, cliffghost said:

I feel quite satisfied with it

But dont you think there COULD be improvements to it?

1. You cant anger YOUR lich on other peoples missions so its either go solo or try to find squad who lets everyone pick maps equally (or be selfish and dont let anyone else pick but you). They should get angry on any lich node wether it makes sense or not. 

2. Once you know all words and your lich isnt angry, you might have to play 10 maps for him to show up which is quite boring. There should be a guaranteed spawn when you know all words or a special node to kill him in (like a boss lair) 

3. The way we have to choose the weapon is really bad system. You have to run cassini many times just to get the right gun, thats silly. Theres no defending it since we can see the weapon. Instead, different planets should have different guns or you select the gun some other way so you dont have to pointlessly run back and worth. OR have liches drop some tokens you use to buy the guns outright. 

But, like I said I still like liches and do them often, its just these few things that bother me daily. 

10 hours ago, trst said:

And how do people still find issues with Requiem mod farming?

Its more like the fact that its boring and doesn't feel rewarding since its just something you need to use to kill your lich then its gone (after 3).

But I agree survival is the best way to go. 

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On 2020-12-03 at 4:09 AM, Captain_Rocket505 said:

Its not hard, Its boring as all hell. 3 hours of doing the same stuff over and over. It brings me back to a quorra article I read about highways (You'll understand where I'm going with this, I promise). It talked about why highways aren't straight, which would be the most efficient solution. The reason? A straight highway gets monotonous and results in more crashes. Now apply that to liches but the accidents are now people not touching the system again. Its too boring to do it, and while I can power through its just too painful. Also the RNG is just horrible. Spent about and hour and a half grinding for a kuva nukot lich. Got zip at all. And I know that's a stupid minor complaint cause it's RNG and can't change much, but it also goes into the monontony argument. Sadly it doesn't seem like DE has any intention to fix it, which is a shame. It seems it could be a cool system if it was improves, but they'll just move to the corpus version of liches (also DE, you could have done something like idk, robotics cause corpus? I just think having a bunch of lawyers working for parvos is weird. Just my opinion)

If you're taking 3 hours to kill a lich you're doing it wrong, it shouldn't take more than about 90 minutes which I admit is still irritating. 

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25 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

If you're taking 3 hours to kill a lich you're doing it wrong, it shouldn't take more than about 90 minutes which I admit is still irritating. 

That reminds me of another thing. Lich is supposed to be your nemesis, but it doesn't feel like much of a nemesis if it cant spawn outside of his own node. So basically you can just ignore it forever if you want. 

I wish you could farm murmur almost anywhere while doing other stuff, that would be so much better.

And yeah I also usually take less than couple of hours to kill one if I do nothing else so its not too bad in that sense. Altho if all this was somehow integrated to normal gameplay I wouldn't mind if it took longer. 

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

If you're taking 3 hours to kill a lich you're doing it wrong, it shouldn't take more than about 90 minutes which I admit is still irritating. 

Thralls spawn every ~20 secs in a mission and have a max cap of 10 per mission (dependent of mission type) except if a Lich spawns (then the Lich can spawn up to ten thralls in addition but spawntime for them will add also). So you need at minimum 200 secs (3:20 mins) for one mission to max out the thrallspawn (except capture; usually you can repeat that mission once to get the full thrall count).

90mins = 5400secs and

5400secs / 200secs = 27 missions

But even you will not finish mission types like Mobile Defense, Excavation, Survival, Extermination, Interception, Disruption, Spy and some Sabotage missions within a time limit of 3:20mins.

That said you have to be very, very lucky with your requiem mod guessing to finish your Lich within 90mins. It's not impossible but it isn't the "standard" as you've claimed.

Imho the Lich ttk is heavenly dependent from requiem mod guessing, the Lichs spawn planet and finally the Lich identity (weaknesses, resistances, immunities, quirk, spawn count) itself. Add players preferred playstyle to that (I usually play solo and start always with excavation if possible otherwise with Mobile Defense) and you will land closer to 3 hours playtime at average per Lich. 🙂

Have a nice day!

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3 minutes ago, cliffghost said:

Thralls spawn every ~20 secs in a mission and have a max cap of 10 per mission (dependent of mission type) except if a Lich spawns (then the Lich can spawn up to ten thralls in addition but spawntime for them will add also). So you need at minimum 200 secs (3:20 mins) for one mission to max out the thrallspawn (except capture; usually you can repeat that mission once to get the full thrall count).

90mins = 5400secs and

5400secs / 200secs = 27 missions

But even you will not finish mission types like Mobile Defense, Excavation, Survival, Extermination, Interception, Disruption, Spy and some Sabotage missions within a time limit of 3:20mins.

That said you have to be very, very lucky with your requiem mod guessing to finish your Lich within 90mins. It's not impossible but it isn't the "standard" as you've claimed.

Imho the Lich ttk is heavenly dependent from requiem mod guessing, the Lichs spawn planet and finally the Lich identity (weaknesses, resistances, immunities, quirk, spawn count) itself. Add players preferred playstyle to that (I usually play solo and start always with excavation if possible otherwise with Mobile Defense) and you will land closer to 3 hours playtime at average per Lich. 🙂

Have a nice day!

I love math, I love ignoring it and simply doing what works from experience instead. You practically answered this for me already, your mistake is the missions you're choosing. Have a pleasant day as well. 

P.S. If I had to do 27 missions for a lich I'd be mad, I definitely don't do that many thankfully.

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Gerade eben schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

I love math, I love ignoring it and simply doing what works from experience instead. You practically answered this for me already, your mistake is the missions you're choosing. Have a pleasant day as well.

uh... think what you want, if it makes you feel better... 🐡

There's always a bigger fish (but it isn't you).

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5 minutes ago, cliffghost said:

uh... think what you want, if it makes you feel better... 🐡

There's always a bigger fish (but it isn't you).

Hey if you want to keep taking 3 hours to do lich's then go right ahead. If you want to know how to improve your efficiency for lich's, feel free to ask that as well.

Edit: Just read your previous quote again, as if you can't finish Spy, Sabotage or Exterminate in under 3:20, that's absolutely doable but in lich missions it's one of the few places where I just kind've saunter through for those 1 or 2 extra thrall spawns.

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I'd definitely like something to erase an active lich. I farm for cool liches that I'd want as members of my future Railjack crew whenever that'll release, but getting a complete dud (bad/ duplicate weapon, looks like a clown) isn't fun to have to slog through for literally nothing except clearing the slot. Now you may ask "well why don't you just only pick ones with good weapons?". That's because while the weapon may not be good the lich may either look cool, or have an ephemera. Ultimately I think the best solution would be adding a full preview of what the lich looks like rather than deciding I don't like my rival and willing him out of existence.

I don't mind the grind, but I do not want to grind to gain nothing.

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7 minutes ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

I'd definitely like something to erase an active lich. I farm for cool liches that I'd want as members of my future Railjack crew whenever that'll release, but getting a complete dud (bad/ duplicate weapon, looks like a clown) isn't fun to have to slog through for literally nothing except clearing the slot. Now you may ask "well why don't you just only pick ones with good weapons?". That's because while the weapon may not be good the lich may either look cool, or have an ephemera. Ultimately I think the best solution would be adding a full preview of what the lich looks like rather than deciding I don't like my rival and willing him out of existence.

I don't mind the grind, but I do not want to grind to gain nothing.

That's a tricky one purely because if you can see that it has an ephemera or a good percentage weapon you destroy the trade for lich's but more importantly, you destroy the longevity of the content. It everyone is able to get all the ephemeras and all the weapons, all maxed at 60% within say a week, you create an even bigger content island than the one it is currently. This is also why a "skip current lich" option will never be implemented.

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4 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

That's a tricky one purely because if you can see that it has an ephemera or a good percentage weapon you destroy the trade for lich's but more importantly, you destroy the longevity of the content. It everyone is able to get all the ephemeras and all the weapons, all maxed at 60% within say a week, you create an even bigger content island than the one it is currently. This is also why a "skip current lich" option will never be implemented.

That's true. If they do go the preview route they'd have to not show if the lich has an ephemera and definitely no weapon bonus preview. Honestly I'd be happy with just that, as long as I'm at least getting a cool lich I'm a happy camper. If I miss an ephemera or two because I'm skipping weird looking liches that's a fair price to pay. Getting a neat lich without wasting time grinding out duds is all I want. Heck I'd grind them more often if I knew I was at least getting something at the end of the grind.

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1 minute ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

That's true. If they do go the preview route they'd have to not show if the lich has an ephemera and definitely no weapon bonus preview. Honestly I'd be happy with just that, as long as I'm at least getting a cool lich I'm a happy camper. If I miss an ephemera or two because I'm skipping weird looking liches that's a fair price to pay. Getting a neat lich without wasting time grinding out duds is all I want. Heck I'd grind them more often if I knew I was at least getting something at the end of the grind.

I can respect that. I imagine you're in a very small minority of people with a legitimate reason for wanting to skip some. I think most people simply want to collect everything faster and easier.

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16 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

If you're taking 3 hours to kill a lich you're doing it wrong, it shouldn't take more than about 90 minutes which I admit is still irritating. 

Im not stupid when it comes to farming liches, but I ain't gonna min max and farm it as effecienctly as possible. I think that's stupid to basically spend hours figuring out how to farm a lich the best when I can just do it the normal way in the same amount of time. It still is annoying, no matter what way you do it. I actually think I got the better end of the deal though, since if you can farm a lich in 90 minutes you are pretty much doing the same thing over and over and over for hours on end (which is the same if you take 3 hours, but if you do it shorter your trying to find the weapon, farming thralls, possibly farming/trading for the mods, hunting the lich, and then fighting them only to repeat the process). It legit needs a major rework. What happened to "these things will have a history with you" from tennocon back in 2019? Yeah there are more personalities coming but what does that change? Nothing, except my lich will say different things now. The only connection I got with my lich is how annoying they were to end their life. 

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1 minute ago, Captain_Rocket505 said:

Im not stupid when it comes to farming liches, but I ain't gonna min max and farm it as effecienctly as possible. I think that's stupid to basically spend hours figuring out how to farm a lich the best when I can just do it the normal way in the same amount of time. It still is annoying, no matter what way you do it. I actually think I got the better end of the deal though, since if you can farm a lich in 90 minutes you are pretty much doing the same thing over and over and over for hours on end (which is the same if you take 3 hours, but if you do it shorter your trying to find the weapon, farming thralls, possibly farming/trading for the mods, hunting the lich, and then fighting them only to repeat the process). It legit needs a major rework. What happened to "these things will have a history with you" from tennocon back in 2019? Yeah there are more personalities coming but what does that change? Nothing, except my lich will say different things now. The only connection I got with my lich is how annoying they were to end their life. 

I'm not going to say it's particularly fun farming lich's, I actually only do it for the ephemeras however I wouldn't say I'm min-maxing, I'm not speed running missions or anything I'm just applying a different method that happens to be quicker. Sure they're a bit boring but this is a grinding game so that's kind've how it goes. Personally I'd prefer it if they put up a better fight but that's just my preference.

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