Shout-out to DE for not making Nightwave a true "battle pass"

[Hypernaut1]

I see this system popping up in so many games, and i was worried it was going to make its way to WF. I thought we were getting a paid "battle pass" challenge system with exclusive rewards and feeling forced to do challenges. Nightwave turned out to be really chill. I appreciate the fact that the devs didnt succumb to the temptation to exploit us, but still tried to copy what was actually cool about the system. 

[OniDax]

It would be nice if Nightwave was as consistent and rewarding as other battle pass systems, though. Right now, it's another boring, half-baked system that DE struggles to support. It's battle pass done wrong. DE should be funneling new, non-quest content through Nightwave. They should tie Nightwave to their major story content (including open worlds and smaller quests like Deadlock Protocol). The thing about battle passes is that they're meant not only to make money (for those games which have paid battle pass systems) but to also provide incentive and motivation for players to keep playing the game. Nightwave should be regularly supported, should tie into story content (much like how Destiny 2 and Modern Warfare drive their post-launch story though their battle pass systems), and it should be rewarding.

And one more thing: you wouldn't ever have to feel forced to do challenges if Nightwave progression worked like other battle pass systems, where any affinity gained increased progression through the battle pass. The challenge-based system just makes Nightwave feel like a chore. If all gameplay progressed you through Nightwave, then you would never feel like you're forced to do any particular activity, because all gameplay would truly be rewarding. Instead of trying to push players to play every single piece of content, DE should be encouraging players to play the game the way they want, as long as they're putting in the time to play the game. They would accomplish that by allowing regular earned affinity to also count as standing for Nightwave (basically, whatever affinity you've gained during any mission will also proportionately count towards Nightwave standing).

[Veridian]

Apart from the total lack of consistency as far as episodes go, as long as there isn't a cap to NW levels (or DE keep increasing it) there isn't much else to complain about.

 

-Detecting glass resonance!

 

OH! wait, there is...

[TARINunit9]

3 minutes ago, OniDax said:

 

And one more thing: you wouldn't ever have to feel forced to do challenges if Nightwave progression worked like other battle pass systems, where any affinity gained increased progression through the battle pass. The challenge-based system just makes Nightwave feel like a chore. If all gameplay progressed you through Nightwave, then you would never feel like you're forced to do any particular activity, because all gameplay would truly be rewarding. Instead of trying to push players to play every single piece of content, DE should be encouraging players to play the game the way they want, as long as they're putting in the time to play the game. 

I mean that kind of is how Nightwave works. This week I have been casually farming my lich murmurs, and when I logged in yesterday I got 1000 NW standing for doing exactly that. This morning I wanted to experiment with the elements on my Vermisplicer kitgun, and got another 1000 NW for killing enemies with corrosive damage. My lich happened to take over a bunch of Rescue missions, and I got 4500 NW for doing them. My clanmate needs a new Ris mod, so we get another 4500 NW for opening up all those requiem relics. I haven't been forced to do anything, it's all tied to just playing the game

Now the Elite Weeklies, those do require going out of your way. Like killing the Ropalolyst (I already own Wisp) or Exploiter (I already own Hildryn too) but ok the flip side, they offer far more points as a result

[WarmongerExtraordinare]

9 минут назад, OniDax сказал:

It's battle pass done wrong.

its a battle pass done 100% free which is the best kind of battle pass. people just cant ever be happy.

[Voltage]

I hate to inform you, but while Nightwave doesn't cost money, it is still a psychologically exploitative system. If DE were to make a chill system, it would have no ranks, a static shop with no rotations, and challenges would directly reward Creds when completed.

The current system pushes players who want to be "maxed rank" to play everyday. This is no different than the psychology of a Call of Duty battle-pass.

The only way to enjoy Nightwave or any other battle pass is to not care about reaching the end. In this case, you aren't invested in it. That's the sad truth of these systems, and Nightwave is no better than a paid one. Their model is a smokescreen to the psychological abuse it puts on your drive to play the game, and it pushes routine chores into you so that it becomes a habit you partake in.

Alerts were not the best system, but Nightwave needs to remove the ranks, remove the rotating rewards, and remove the FOMO from time-sensitive challenges, time-sensitive rewards, and time-sensitive ranks. It's irritating how Nightwave functions.

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

I hate to inform you, but while Nightwave doesn't cost money, it is still a psychologically exploitative system. If DE were to make a chill system, it would have no ranks, a static shop with no rotations, and challenges would directly reward Creds when completed.

The current system pushes players who want to be "maxed rank" to play everyday. This is no different than the psychology of a Call of Duty battle-pass.

The only way to enjoy Nightwave or any other battle pass is to not care about reaching the end. In this case, you aren't invested in it. That's the sad truth of these systems, and Nightwave is no better than a paid one. Their model is a smokescreen to the psychological abuse it puts on your drive to play the game, and it pushes routine chores into you so that it becomes a habit you partake in.

Alerts were not the best system, but Nightwave needs to remove the ranks, remove the rotating rewards, and remove the FOMO it instills in you.

false. 

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

false. 

Mind elaborating?

[(XBOX)Shodian]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

and remove the FOMO it instills in you

Yes because having nine months to complete it when it only takes less than two to get everything is FOMO.

[Jem991]

4 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Mind elaborating?

False

[Voltage]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Yes because having nine months to complete it when it only takes less than two to get everything is FOMO.

Getting level 30 is not "finishing Nightwave", maxed prestige is. If you just care about the new items and not completing the system, then yes, you fall into the category I explained:

14 minutes ago, Voltage said:

The only way to enjoy Nightwave or any other battle pass is to not care about reaching the end. In this case, you aren't invested in it. That's the sad truth of these systems, and Nightwave is no better than a paid one.

Again, I am not sure how the current Nightwave model is acceptable compared to one that removed Ranks and had a static store with direct rewards through challenges. Also, the current model has a time-sensitive aspect to daily challenges and can be for content you already finished (looking at Lich challenges).

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Just now, Voltage said:

Getting level 30 is not "finishing Nightwave", maxed prestige is

That's your opinion. In my opinion, getting to rank 30 ends nightwave.

What is a fact though is Prestige ranks are bonus ranks that get you extra goodies. The rewards store for Nightwave credits stay consistant. The only things that change are cosmetics and a few niche mods that I'm guessing not a lot of people use. Those rewards that stay the same have been there since the first Nightwave. 

[Jem991]

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Getting level 30 is not "finishing Nightwave", maxed prestige is. If you just care about the new items and not completing the system, then yes, you fall into the category I explained:

Again, I am not sure how the current Nightwave model is acceptable compared to one that removed Ranks and had a static store with direct rewards through challenges that are time limited and can be for content you already finished (looking at Lich challenges).

I have never played especially nightwave. but now i'm 30 + 27 level and i got everything i wanted.

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

The rewards store for Nightwave credits stay consistant.

This isn't true. Last years Nightwave shop housed Solstice skins for Christmas. If you did not participate in Nightwave then, you missed skins that only come once a year. This is yet another issue with Nightwave. It isn't consistent or predictable. Any second they can move the goal post 30 ranks or add time-sensitive items that cost Creds that you may not have that week.

[NecroPed]

9 minutes ago, Voltage said:

This isn't true. Last years Nightwave shop housed Solstice skins for Christmas. If you did not participate in Nightwave then, you missed skins that only come once a year. This is yet another issue with Nightwave. It isn't consistent or predictable. Any second they can move the goal post 30 ranks or add time-sensitive items that cost Creds that you may not have that week.

I dunno, offering festive skins during Christmas time seems pretty predictable and consistent to me. 

 

Edit: On a side note, I think this is the best battle pass I've seen in any game. 

[(XBOX)Shodian]

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

This isn't true. Last years Nightwave shop housed Solstice skins for Christmas. If you did not participate in Nightwave then, you missed skins that only come once a year. This is yet another issue with Nightwave. It isn't consistent or predictable. Any second they can move the goal post 30 ranks or add time-sensitive items that cost Creds that you may not have that week.

Almost everything in Warframe returns at one point or another. 

Important items, like potatoes, Nitain, Kuva, etc are always in the store and never changes.

Cosmetics are extras and aren't as important. And the always will come back around. You should never stress out over missing cosmetics.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

7 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Getting level 30 is not "finishing Nightwave", maxed prestige is. If you just care about the new items and not completing the system, then yes, you fall into the category I explained:

Again, I am not sure how the current Nightwave model is acceptable compared to one that removed Ranks and had a static store with direct rewards through challenges. Also, the current model has a time-sensitive aspect to daily challenges and can be for content you already finished (looking at Lich challenges).

I don't think this is NW problem. I know it's not good to get it personal, but isn't you are the one who get as goal to have 1'000'000'000 credits?

I have clanmate with a same problem (NW, not billions credits), but for normies it's work like "oh, nice, i don't need to do everything (Lich or whateter)" and "at least i have some rewards after tir 30". 

And for me it just "nice, i have a bit reason to visit %bossname%". Not to grind em untill death (mine), but for chill one kill just for fun.

[GEN-Son_17]

Nightwave is actually awesome. 

There is no psychological exploit in nightwave. That is simply a personal choice to be overly immersive. In fact, DE went out of their way to make damn sure that wasn't even closeto an issue by increasingly extending seasons 1.5 - 3 enough to shut that argument up. And yet, it still exists...which makes it a BS complaint. 

What's amazing is that it became something I truly love Warframe for: another part of the game with an objective I can decide to take in and enjoy. I'm six years in now and have a huge chunk of what the game offers. There's little DE can do in short update bursts to change my mastery of the mechanics (which is why I absolutely love Railjack and lunaro!). Therefore, when I'm in the mood to play any video game, I can play Warframe and choose a ton of activities...and STILL earn serious nightwave points! 

That said, I still wish they'd add special bonus points or rewards for Lunaro, conclave and even the mini games!

[Voltage]

23 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

I don't think this is NW problem. I know it's not good to get it personal, but isn't you are the one who get as goal to have 1'000'000'000 credits?

I have clanmate with a same problem (NW, not billions credits), but for normies it's work like "oh, nice, i don't need to do everything (Lich or whateter)" and "at least i have some rewards after tir 30". 

And for me it just "nice, i have a bit reason to visit %bossname%". Not to grind em untill death (mine), but for chill one kill just for fun.

I understand your perspective, but I still can't agree that Nightwave is far off from the usual battle-pass outside of being free vs paid.

You can't blame a player for wanting to fully complete a system in a game that incentivizes completionism and collection. If I play Call of Duty Modern Warfare, I cannot just say "I feel like I finished the Battle Pass on level 20, so it's on you for caring about Rank 21-100". This goes back to my original comment which I quoted twice. The best way to enjoy a battle pass, including Nightwave, is to not be invested or care about finishing it. In Warframe (a game built on collection), this is a core problem with Nightwave as it doesn't feel great with how it's designed.

Removing ranks and having a static store with no time limitation on challenges would create a system that rewards active players, but has absolutely no pressure to play excessively past the usual enjoyment. In a system with no ranks or time limitations in a static store, players can complete the system and be rewarded with a break between seasons. The current system discourages missing daily challenges as the max rank goalpost can be moved while counting retroactive challenge completion as well as time limited squads that give reputation every 25 minutes.

[OniDax]

41 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I mean that kind of is how Nightwave works. This week I have been casually farming my lich murmurs, and when I logged in yesterday I got 1000 NW standing for doing exactly that. This morning I wanted to experiment with the elements on my Vermisplicer kitgun, and got another 1000 NW for killing enemies with corrosive damage. My lich happened to take over a bunch of Rescue missions, and I got 4500 NW for doing them. My clanmate needs a new Ris mod, so we get another 4500 NW for opening up all those requiem relics. I haven't been forced to do anything, it's all tied to just playing the game

Now the Elite Weeklies, those do require going out of your way. Like killing the Ropalolyst (I already own Wisp) or Exploiter (I already own Hildryn too) but ok the flip side, they offer far more points as a result

The system doesn't force you to do any particular challenge but it is wholly task-based. You have to perform certain actions to rank up Nightwave, instead of being able to play any way you want to. The system therefore rewards only certain kinds of gameplay, and under certain conditions, not all gameplay. That's something I want to see change.

42 minutes ago, WarmongerExtraordinare said:

its a battle pass done 100% free which is the best kind of battle pass. people just cant ever be happy.

Being 100% free doesn't mean it's a perfect system. Being 100% free doesn't mean it, or DE, is free from criticism.

 

[Hypernaut1]

37 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Mind elaborating?

 Every point you listed, i disagree with. You are free to hate everything about NW if you want. 

[Rebore]

If I do recall correctly here from memory of other battle passes in games they tend to be more rewarding since they are bought and the free pass is just total butt cheeks with like a doodoo reward every 5 ranks and then sometimes it skips like 20-30 ranks with no rewards then you can get some free rewards again. NW does not have good rewards at all if anything it is decent for none mr30 players other than the umbral forma but everything else they would likely already have/do not need. It does though have a reward for each rank though but it only goes to rank 30 of actual rewards and the rest are just credits. Why not just add 100 ranks if you are going to add bloody 90 extra more credit ranks or however more extra ranks there are just for credits. Like each rank give base 15 credits on top of the reward for each rank would be better. They even just bring back old items in the old NW seasons into the intermissions to make them less rewarding if say you were here since season 1 and then next intermission they just bring them back for people who missed it to get them. 90% of the rewards arent rewarding, so I do not care if they bring back old rewards in the intermissions but it just shows that the system is below average of rewarding. Not sure if other battle passes in other games even have intermissions or even bring back old rewards or if each season they always have new rewards. Maybe the reason that they do not have "exclusive rewards" or just any type of good rewards is because it is a free system but maybe if it was paid then DE could throw in some actual good rewards but not like there is anything in the game already that they could use an they would have to make something new. In all yes the NW is free to play but does not make it good at all. It is time gating based on weekly missions, re-used rewards, and just having you legit do the same thing that you would do in normal gameplay. Oh go capture an enemy 3 times. Like nothing innovating to the gameplay that is already there. This system gives no actual appeal for someone to logically spend the time to complete other than if they are bored or have the time to do so and say #*!% it I'll just do it. I like that it is free to all but that is just what makes it bad since DE has no impulsive to make it even better than it is right now. They will just keep the same system as is.

[DrivaMain]

45 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Alerts were not the best system, but Nightwave needs to remove the ranks, remove the rotating rewards, and remove the FOMO from time-sensitive challenges, time-sensitive rewards, and time-sensitive ranks. It's irritating how Nightwave functions.

Who likes alerts raises your hand.. huh No one except you? Gee I wonder why..

DE has already dumbed down the nightwave system. With the catchup system in theory you can ignore nightwave for months and reach rank 30 at the last two or one week before the season ends.

Alerts are also time sensitive. It also instill FOMO but much worse than nightwave. You can't play when the nitain alert is up? Well suck it up and give DE money to get the item.

 

 

[NecroPed]

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Who likes alerts raises your hand.. huh No one except you? Gee I wonder why..

DE has already dumbed down the nightwave system. With the catchup system in theory you can ignore nightwave for months and reach rank 30 at the last two or one week before the season ends.

Alerts are also time sensitive. It also instill FOMO but much worse than nightwave. You can't play when the nitain alert is up? Well suck it up and give DE money to get the item.

 

 

Can't tell you how many times I went days or weeks without nitain because I just didn't lot in during the time the alert was available. Now with NW I am happily sitting at 10+ nitain regularly.

[Voltage]

7 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You are free to hate everything about NW if you want. 

I just dislike a system that punishes you for being employed, sleeping a full night's rest, having class, or having responsibility in life when you desire the maximum rank. You cannot blame a player while encouraging AFKing in Orb Vallis for 25 minute spawns to get extra standing while also never missing a challenge to hit the maximum rank. I go to work, I go to night class twice a week, and I try to sleep 8 hours. I complete almost every challenge (I only skip "Clear a Lich Node" due to not having a Lich), and yet I am still many ranks behind other players simply because I am not pushing myself in the system. That is the same with other battle passes. It creates a mindset that treats it like a job which isn't healthy. My suggestions in this thread would still keep the system in a great spot for you, and just better for the people like me. There is nothing to lose by removing all the mechanics that have psychological consequences for many players when approaching the content in question.