$$$ for Fix - Status vs Crit, Armor vs Health/Shields, Damage Types

[TnaneverRisen]

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

On this topic I have an unpopular opinion, as so often.

All crit stats are basically +damage boosts with a different wording. Especailly weapons which can reach 100% transform CC & CD in Serration4.0 that takes up 2 slots. Call me oldschool, but for me crit should embody a playstyle with high damage spikes at the cost of much lower overall damage. Or have a skill component attached to it. (personaly i like that one more)
Given the power, I would entirely remove crit chance from all guns. Instead weapons deal bonus damage if the player shoots weakspots (also add more weakspot to enemies). Critical damage indicates how big the boost is. Critical damage mods would increase weakpoint damage. Critical chance mods would function as visual aid and highlight weakspots (kinda like Banshee's Sonar) if you zoom. No more RNG, all down to player skill. Would also make crit stats entirely a player choice on any weapon, if the player feels confident in his skills.
This obviously does not work on melee, and I do not have a solution for it. All I know is, n-tier crits is retarded.

Furthermore, status is actually more powerfull, thus status has caps and VIPs are immunte to status, but not crits.

Those are pretty good ideas.  The only thing I disagree with is the statement that status is more powerful.  It's only rarely more powerful.  For example, nobody thinks magnetic/blast/puncture/impact is too strong.  Even their damage types suck for the most part, with the exception of puncture (sometimes).

[MacIntoc]

10 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

They already are, but there is diminishing returns for stacking more of it. Like Condition Overload VS Pressure Point for Base Damage. If crit was additive with base damage, it would be Blood Rush + Organ Shatter Vs Condition Overload VS PPP.

For guns, fire rate would probably become the new mandatory mod.

There is no possible comparaison between how CO and critical damage works. Critical damage is multiplicative with overal damage, CO was exponential with itself then multiplicative with total base damage. It's not the same scale.

If you make critical damage additive with base damage, you just make Serration-like mod useless for critical weapons. One mod wich will be replaced by an elemental mod (or the 120% slash mod) since theses mods are multiplicative with total base damage. Just see how to build a weapon with a WF that can massively buff base damage, like Chroma.

 

10 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

For guns, fire rate would probably become the new mandatory mod.

So your solution is to replace a mandatory stat by another madatory stat ?

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

9 minutes ago, MacIntoc said:

There is no possible comparaison between how CO and critical damage works. Critical damage is multiplicative with overal damage, CO was exponential with itself then multiplicative with total base damage. It's not the same scale.

If you make critical damage additive with base damage, you just make Serration-like mod useless for critical weapons. One mod wich will be replaced by an elemental mod (or the 120% slash mod) since theses mods are multiplicative with total base damage. Just see how to build a weapon with a WF that can massively buff base damage, like Chroma.

 

So your solution is to replace a mandatory stat by another madatory stat ?

The idea is to reign in all the different multiplayers to flatten player damage scaling because that's favorable over DE introducing silly new enemies that nullify it anyways in a convoluted way like the Viral-immune Jugulus with Damage Reduction based on DPS on top of armor.

DE keeps trying to introduce new challenging enemies, but before that, they need to come up with convoluted ways to survive our inflated damage scaling with invincibility phases, reflecting shields or in the case of Glassmaker, where we can't use our gear anyways.  

Modding in Warframe is just an exercise in how many multipliers you can stack (or health multiplier you can ignore with the case of Slash) in 8 slots and nothing more. There is no choice in modding when a mod gives you a multiplayer to your damage and another multiplies that.

Before the change to Condition Overload, it was just another multiplier with Blood Rush and Primed Pressure Point. After the change, it competes with Prime Pressure Point for a slot, freeing up a slot for something else like Primed Reach or Healing Return. With less multipliers to exploit, players will opt for something else.

Players have complained for years about mandatory mods like Serration. How it was just straight up damage without any consequences. At least Fire Rate has the downside of ammo economy and reload frequency.

[MacIntoc]

19 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

The idea is to reign in all the different multiplayers to flatten player damage scaling because that's favorable over DE introducing silly new enemies that nullify it anyways in a convoluted way like the Viral-immune Jugulus with Damage Reduction based on DPS on top of armor.

You are pointing two different problems that have nothing to do with each other. Flattening damage will not eliminate the need to make some enemies harder to kill. Instead of an invulnerability phase or high DR, they will be turned into HP bags. The only difference is that a new player will not feel more powerful as he progresses through the game. And a veteran will not be more advanced than a new player.

20 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

DE keeps trying to introduce new challenging enemies, but before that, they need to come up with convoluted ways to survive our inflated damage scaling with invincibility phases, reflecting shields or in the case of Glassmaker, where we can't use our gear anyways.

Yep, that's the problem when any content must be done with any stuff. The content must be weak enought to be accessible with weakest stuff or the content must ignore stuff.

19 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Before the change to Condition Overload, it was just another multiplier with Blood Rush and Primed Pressure Point. After the change, it competes with Prime Pressure Point for a slot, freeing up a slot for something else like Primed Reach or Healing Return. With less multipliers to exploit, players will opt for something else.

The nerf of CO (and also Primed Reach for high range weapons) has freed a slot (two for high range weapons). But it's the combo melee and stance rework that has truly increased a bit the variety on melee build.

20 hours ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Players have complained for years about mandatory mods like Serration. How it was just straight up damage without any consequences. At least Fire Rate has the downside of ammo economy and reload frequency.

Why would i mods my stuff to add downside ? The purpose of modding is to be more powerfull. As you say, some players complain that some mods are mandatory. Not that the mods don't add any downside. It's like people complaining that ice cream makes you fat and the solution would be to add tabasco.

To solve the problem of mandatory mods, the way statistics are distributed over the mods needs to be reworked. Some statistics (such as damage or multishots) are too important to be increased by a mod with only a single high number. Theses stats must be diluted with 2 or 3 others statistics considered less important such as the size of the magazine, reload time, projectile speed,... that mean a mod like Serration may look like more "+50% base damage; +20% magazine size; +60% holster speed".

 

[TKDancer]

*shameless self-plug*
 

On 2020-12-08 at 9:42 PM, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

The idea is to reign in all the different multiplayers to flatten player damage scaling because that's favorable over DE introducing silly new enemies that nullify it anyways in a convoluted way like the Viral-immune Jugulus with Damage Reduction based on DPS on top of armor.

DE keeps trying to introduce new challenging enemies, but before that, they need to come up with convoluted ways to survive our inflated damage scaling with invincibility phases, reflecting shields or in the case of Glassmaker, where we can't use our gear anyways. 

this is really the root of the game's problems to me, armor lead to player dmg out put going way up, but not all enemies are armored so huge discrepancies surface

then DE tries to make newer content have tankier enemies, either adding armor on top to enemies from factions that generally lack armor, annoying DPS caps(aka, bring a redeemer prime) or straight up full immunities/invincibility phases