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(Lore Questions) How are the Entrati even alive and why are they okay with Tenno being around?


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8 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

Then there's Hunhow, who is just being racist by generalizing all humans as Orokin.

Well to be fair to ol’ grandpa farmer, before the collapse everything in the origin system was part of the orokin empire and the sentients having been completely developed in a different start system wouldn’t really be that aware in the difference so from his point of view only the Tenno classify as a different race and an equally menacing one.

7 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

nihilistic

NIHIL: glass intensifies.

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20 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Personally if an unstoppable godlike killing machine dropped in to say hi on my planet and then opted to help me instead of destroying me down to my every last cell, I would welcome them too.

And on that note, why the hell did we (or the other 2 factions) not just bombard Deimos from orbit until it's glowing brighter than the Sun? An aggressive nanite swarm is not something that you leave lying around.

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17 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

And on that note, why the hell did we (or the other 2 factions) not just bombard Deimos from orbit until it's glowing brighter than the Sun? An aggressive nanite swarm is not something that you leave lying around.

I'm down for that. Just apply Ripley logic and nuke it.

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20 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

But they are consumed though. They are, quite literally, part of Infestation now. They even complain about hearing the hivemind at some point. What they did manage to keep was their personalities, at least partially. 

i always thought that the family sticking together was causing a divide in the hive mind (why do fass and vomb keep attacking each other arnt they both part of the infested sorta like your left arm attacking your right arm you control both arms so how is that possible? and the escort a juggy why are the infested attacking another infested???) sure they are part of the infested but the divide is making the part of the hive which they are closest linked to question whos orders is it listening to the true hive or the family standing together as a whole which coz they are infested makes em a hive mind too but because you can talk to them they have their own ideas and not the true hives ideas so the inner conflict

sure the true hive may win in the end but now we have this time of cretures that have been infested long ago and are still opposing the hive mind

but thats just a theroy

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18 hours ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

That's what actually ppl think then they hear about "lost civilisation", but for now, i'm not sure has it been at least 10 years.

It takes a lot longer than 10 years for material to ossify like the frames did in the new intro.

There's also the fact that the collapse happened "generations" ago, according to people who think 105 years of age is the end of childhood.

Edited by Corvid
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Its likely that the orokin had "factions". Entrati was one of them.

The same exact way as we have syndicates. Humans and cephalons as a community, but not really sharing the same views.

Mother specifically calls you an "Orokin thug". This implies they themselves do not see themselves as Orokin, but rather, "Orokin" and "Entrati" are two different groups of people. 

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4 hours ago, Corvid said:

It takes a lot longer than 10 years for material to ossify like the frames did in the new intro.

There's also the fact that the collapse happened "generations" ago, according to people who think 105 years of age is the end of childhood.

Depends which generations you mean - the Ostron will be measuring it in 30-40 year cycles, if they live as long as we do today, probably less. And then there's Baro, who is not exactly old today, but was a child when a particule warframe was running around preventing children from being taken by the Orokin lords.

Civilisations can collapse really quickly, and be subsumed by nature. Look at some old installations from WW2, they're crumbling, vine-covered, and some less important structures are totally hidden in vegetation. 80 years is a long time to be left alone. So I think the "thousands of years have passed" is really flowerly language for "beyond when anyone can remember", if it was thousands of years, the corpus (at least) and grineer would have gotten a bit more successful and diplomatic by now, but they still seem to be battling the forces of chaos as if the collapse was just yesterday.

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58 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

Depends which generations you mean - the Ostron will be measuring it in 30-40 year cycles, if they live as long as we do today, probably less.

Again, the same people who said it happened generations ago measure their own lifespans in the hundreds of years at least. Darvo Bek is explicitly over 100 years old, yet he's still at the stage in his life where his father can essentially ground him.

1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

And then there's Baro, who is not exactly old today, but was a child when a particule warframe was running around preventing children from being taken by the Orokin lords.

Incorrect. Baro was told the stories of Inaros, but he was not around for the events described therein. What he was present for was the sacking of the Sand People's settlement by the Grineer.

1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

Civilisations can collapse really quickly, and be subsumed by nature.

I'm aware, which is why I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the layers of dust that build up and harden into a stone-like substance over time (which is what happens in the intro.) That process specifically takes a very long time (as in "geological timescales" long).

1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

if it was thousands of years, the corpus (at least) and grineer would have gotten a bit more successful and diplomatic by now, but they still seem to be battling the forces of chaos as if the collapse was just yesterday.

Because both are effectively in a state of deadlock. Neither wants to back down, and both have the resources to keep up the fight, so that's what they do.

It's also heavily implied that prior to the Archwing questline, the two factions were effectively in a state of cold war for most of the time between the Collapse and now, with hostilities only escalating in the events of that quest thanks to Vay Hek's deployment of the Fomorians.

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5 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

Depends which generations you mean - the Ostron will be measuring it in 30-40 year cycles, if they live as long as we do today, probably less. And then there's Baro, who is not exactly old today, but was a child when a particule warframe was running around preventing children from being taken by the Orokin lords.

Civilisations can collapse really quickly, and be subsumed by nature. Look at some old installations from WW2, they're crumbling, vine-covered, and some less important structures are totally hidden in vegetation. 80 years is a long time to be left alone. So I think the "thousands of years have passed" is really flowerly language for "beyond when anyone can remember"

Head on over to my lore website and type "centuries" into the search bar. You know what, I've done it for you: https://www.orokinarchives.com/?s=centuries

You'll find several references to the long time period since the Collapse. The Lotus says the Grineer have been deteriorating for centuries due to excessive cloning. Ordis says that Jordas has been lying adrift for centuries. Onkko says, in two different documents, that it has been centuries since the Eidolon battled against the Unum's Tower. All three of these are intended to be reliable narrators who have the authority to determine time scales. And, most explicitly, the official quest description for the Vor's Prize quest says "After centuries of sleep, you are awake. Your warframe armour is weak. Your skills, all but forgotten."

If you search for "millennia", you get suggestions that it was even longer (although these are not as concrete).

As @Corvid pointed out, Baro was not alive to see Inaros. It was a story, passed down among their people.

5 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

if it was thousands of years, the corpus (at least) and grineer would have gotten a bit more successful and diplomatic by now, but they still seem to be battling the forces of chaos as if the collapse was just yesterday.

The "forces of chaos" they're fighting is just each other. Two mega-states can be locked in combat with each other for a very long time if they're evenly matched – see the Hundred Years' War. It happens even more often in fiction.

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from what i understand the entrati are rather fine with us being around becouse they were the ones advocating necramechs are reliable and powerfull

then someone created warframes and combined them with the tenno and the entrati went "this isnt gonna end well fellas, this is not a good idea"

turns out it really was not a good idea, the tenno uprising happened, and the entrati basicly went "told ya so"

basicly they know whos really to blame for what happened, the arrogant other orokin who ignored their warnings about us and rejected their stable "products" and went for the new flashy warframes.

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9 minutes ago, Cybercobra2 said:

from what i understand the entrati are rather fine with us being around becouse they were the ones advocating necramechs are reliable and powerfull

then someone created warframes and combined them with the tenno and the entrati went "this isnt gonna end well fellas, this is not a good idea"

turns out it really was not a good idea, the tenno uprising happened, and the entrati basicly went "told ya so"

basicly they know whos really to blame for what happened, the arrogant other orokin who ignored their warnings about us and rejected their stable "products" and went for the new flashy warframes.

You're kinda ignoring the fact that on the strategic level the Necramechs failed. Their lack of intelligence (something Father explicitly mentions as a flaw) meant they weren't good for much beyond "Point at enemy and shoot at it". Warframes offered more flexibility, which is ultimately what you need when you're fighting against a foe that adapts to anything you field.

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1 hour ago, Corvid said:

You're kinda ignoring the fact that on the strategic level the Necramechs failed. Their lack of intelligence (something Father explicitly mentions as a flaw) meant they weren't good for much beyond "Point at enemy and shoot at it". Warframes offered more flexibility, which is ultimately what you need when you're fighting against a foe that adapts to anything you field.

IM not ignoring that as i never said that I think that, i simply think that this is how the entrati think, doesnt matter if overall the tenno would have been the right choice, the entrati trusted their mechs and not the tenno at the time, and thought there orokin were making a mistake, and lo and behold, they nearly all died for it, so the entrati get to be right smug about it, their beef isnt with us, its with the other orokin.

Edited by Cybercobra2
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On 2020-12-04 at 8:08 AM, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Personally if an unstoppable godlike killing machine dropped in to say hi on my planet and then opted to help me instead of destroying me down to my every last cell, I would welcome them too.

Yeah, like with the Heart being as damaged and the risk of whatever it is that will happen should it explode... i think its safe to say theyd take anyones help.

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15 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

And on that note, why the hell did we (or the other 2 factions) not just bombard Deimos from orbit until it's glowing brighter than the Sun? An aggressive nanite swarm is not something that you leave lying around.

Its downright said in the Quest: " It pumps the arteries of 'the here' and the Void.", without it? The Void is no longer connected to Realspace. Void Travel is the FTL of the factions. The Heart stops, the connects dwindles until its severed and goodbye FTL.

As much as the factions likely WANT to blow it up, they cant. It would both destroy the Heart and the only family left who has the idea on how to maintain it.

It would be stupidity. The presence of Deimos is a necessary evil.

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9 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Its downright said in the Quest: " It pumps the arteries of 'the here' and the Void.", without it? The Void is no longer connected to Realspace. Void Travel is the FTL of the factions. The Heart stops, the connects dwindles until its severed and goodbye FTL.

As much as the factions likely WANT to blow it up, they cant. It would both destroy the Heart and the only family left who has the idea on how to maintain it.

It would be stupidity. The presence of Deimos is a necessary evil.

The question then is perhaps whether the Corpus and Grineer know that. If so, why have they not completely swamped the moon with elite troops and given it a thorough burning (on the surface only) and if not, why didn't they obliterate it from orbit out of ignorance? Sure, they don't get along, but for something like FTL I'm sure that they could maintain at least a truce in the face of a common enemy.

Edited by DoomFruit
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On 2020-12-06 at 2:43 AM, DoomFruit said:

If so, why have they not completely swamped the moon with elite troops and given it a thorough burning (on the surface only) and if not, why didn't they obliterate it from orbit out of ignorance?

They… don't really do that. They're too busy fighting each other. Mercury and Eris are hotbeds of Infested activity, and have been for a while. Eris is just ignored by everyone, and while there are efforts to fight the Infestation on Mercury, they're not coordinated, and likely won't be effective. The arrival of Deimos, overrun with Infestation, isn't going to cause them to take any more action than they already were.

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On 2020-12-04 at 7:57 AM, Butterfly85 said:

To be fair, we need the entrati to maintain our void powers so it's in our interest to make sure they are ok. I mean, i doubt the kiddo will have the theoretically scientific background to maintain the heart and whatnot.

We don't need the Entrati at all. The heart thing has nothing to do with the Man in the Wall and his connection to the Tenno. What is going on there is far deeper than what the heart was, which was just a gate.  Frankly, the heart is a gimmicky story telling device too, and as predicted, is no longer important.

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On 2020-12-06 at 2:43 AM, DoomFruit said:

The question then is perhaps whether the Corpus and Grineer know that. 

The Grineer do, enough to send their only competent loyalist down there to show the Infested what-for

On a more serious note, Mother's dialogue mentions that the Grineer and Corpus send expeditions to Deimos all the time. Dialogue from Latrox Une suggests that the Entrati even have a reputation among the Corpus as lucrative but VERY strict clientele

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37 minutes ago, Formous said:

We don't need the Entrati at all. The heart thing has nothing to do with the Man in the Wall and his connection to the Tenno. What is going on there is far deeper than what the heart was, which was just a gate.  Frankly, the heart is a gimmicky story telling device too, and as predicted, is no longer important.

Well yes but actually no. We need the heart for our warframes and just about everything else to function. And you have no way of knowing that it isn’t going to be important, Deimos just came out, there hasn’t even been a chance yet for something else to come out that’s linked to it.

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2 hours ago, Formous said:

We don't need the Entrati at all. The heart thing has nothing to do with the Man in the Wall and his connection to the Tenno. What is going on there is far deeper than what the heart was, which was just a gate.  Frankly, the heart is a gimmicky story telling device too, and as predicted, is no longer important.

As Loid already said, lose the Heart, and everything that relied on the Void (the Heart as well) goes with it. That includes the Tenno, Solar Rails/Junctions, and perhaps our Railjacks too. That in essence would completely isolate the Origin System from one planet to another, leaving it defenseless to the Sentients.

In fact, without a particular Entrati, the Tenno might as well never existed in the first place nor will the 

Spoiler

Orokins transcend and expand past Earth and Lua.

 

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7 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

As Loid already said, lose the Heart, and everything that relied on the Void (the Heart as well) goes with it. That includes the Tenno, Solar Rails/Junctions, and perhaps our Railjacks too. That in essence would completely isolate the Origin System from one planet to another, leaving it defenseless to the Sentients.

In fact, without a particular Entrati, the Tenno might as well never existed in the first place nor will the 

  Reveal hidden contents

Orokins transcend and expand past Earth and Lua.

 

I get that but it also doesn't make sense. Consider for a moment how that makes sense with the tenno, who are bound to the Man in the wall. by that assumption we die if it goes away. Yet how does a machine control a entire omnipotent dimension? It doesn't.  It wasn't a machine afterall which made the Tenno.

Edited by Formous
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