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Why cant we have rivens for exalted weapons?


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Honestly, why not? It's not like it would be free power creep, they take up a slot like every other riven. Are DE worried about Disposition? Is it just the same 7 year old spaghetti coding that made Cautious Shot break Kuva Bramma on launch?

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Or, instead of asking for more unnecessary Rivens, ask for actual changes and buffs to Exalted weapons. Including ones that alter Pseudos such as Whipclaw and Landslide to become Exalted as well, or at least obtain their own mod slots to not only keep them inline with others, but also remove stat sticking.

It should not be okay that certain Warframe abilities should rely on RNG to get decent damage, nor should we make it a standard. And I can attest to that, being an Atlas main.

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Confused Tom Hanks GIF

if you have to ask, then either, you don't know Rivens, or you don't know what *some* Exalted weapons can do. 

what we need is a total revisit to all of them: to make all of them powerful, but not to the point that angrily swooshing is a viable playstyle. the way they can do this is by taking a page from Destiny and making Exalted Melees have a short, fixed duration, and a kill requirement to activate them, but the weapons' themselves can so ludicrously unthinkable amounts of damage that can one hit just about anything. you absolutely CAN have absurd levels of power, as long as you're willing to put in just a little effort for it. 

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9 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Confused Tom Hanks GIF

if you have to ask, then either, you don't know Rivens, or you don't know what *some* Exalted weapons can do. 

what we need is a total revisit to all of them: to make all of them powerful, but not to the point that angrily swooshing is a viable playstyle. the way they can do this is by taking a page from Destiny and making Exalted Melees have a short, fixed duration, and a kill requirement to activate them, but the weapons' themselves can so ludicrously unthinkable amounts of damage that can one hit just about anything. you absolutely CAN have absurd levels of power, as long as you're willing to put in just a little effort for it. 

Yeah a revisit is badly needed. Not just for exalteds but pseudo exalteds too. Exalteds used to be exactly what the pseudo exalteds are now just with drain instead of one time cast. It was a problem then and remains a problem now. Remove rivens affecting them, buff most exalteds (because they are worse than normal melee weapons in a lot of cases) and convert pseuod exalteds into full exalteds, let accolyte mods work on all the things.

However I disagree strongly with changing them to a Destiny style kill system. In normal missions they'd be almost useless and in endless you could essentially cast them constantly. Warframe has way more enemy density and far less scripted fights the ebb and flow of combat are drastically different and prevent the same kinds of solutions really being viable.

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1 minute ago, Drasiel said:

However I disagree strongly with changing them to a Destiny style kill system.

fair enough. it could also simply be a fixed cooldown, or be charged by using other abilities, etc. the main point is to limit the time spent using them so that you can't take them for granted, but you know that when you DO have Exalted blade it'll absolutely save your a$$ because it's as ludicrously powerful as it should be.

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19 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Confused Tom Hanks GIF

if you have to ask, then either, you don't know Rivens, or you don't know what *some* Exalted weapons can do. 

what we need is a total revisit to all of them: to make all of them powerful, but not to the point that angrily swooshing is a viable playstyle. the way they can do this is by taking a page from Destiny and making Exalted Melees have a short, fixed duration, and a kill requirement to activate them, but the weapons' themselves can so ludicrously unthinkable amounts of damage that can one hit just about anything. you absolutely CAN have absurd levels of power, as long as you're willing to put in just a little effort for it. 

>be like destiny. Short fixed duration.

 

How about god please no?

 

Normal melee weapons can already 1 hit everything, or close to it. 

If i want to play destiny i'll go play destiny. I dont want "super" mechanics.

 

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Because Rivens are and will always be a fatal mistake that DE made.

The excuse of "weapon balancing" has long since been proven to ring hollow, since weak weapons can't benefit from the exponential design of Riven mods but strong weapons can get the same mileage out of a Riven with a much lower disposition.

They've done nothing but break what little balance the game had and have caused this endless spiral of more and more power creep.

Edited by Aldain
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4 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

But atlas and khora's pseudo exalted weapons can use augments and riven mods *and* acolyte mods? 

 

I dont get why this is still a thing. 

 

*cries in iron staff*

The point of Rivens was to bring weak or disused weapons up to the power level of newer more interesting weapons, why rivens are not required for exalted weapons is because their power level needs to be directly controlled by the game comparatively to the WFs kit itself, not some vague generalized popular usage to power value that is dynamic and changes every 3 months to compensate to meta changes.
The WFs and their powers need to be stable and controlled, not based in random chance or popularity, and Exalted weapons are Powers/Abilities before they are weapons.


As to other points in this thread:
I disagree that Rivens have 'broken the game', the only time they are broken is when a new OP weapon variant comes out and its Riven has 4-5 points to its disposition.
I get along perfectly fine with or without a Riven in my weapons, I can do all the content I can kill what I need to and my WFs are effective at high level.

Frankly I feel the 'Riven issues' I see posed by others here are mostly based on some ethereal concept that min-maxing is the only way you can get anywhere in this game, it's not and frankly the idea that Rivens break the game is nonsense. For me I commonly dredge up old weapons and give them new life if I happen to get a 5 disposition Riven for them. No Riven is worth 500+ plat just so you can get that extra few percentage points of crit, to me the Rivens are not the issue, it's the people who drive market costs for this insatiable need to have the absolute best top tier best 1% Riven for their 'best' loadout weapon or it's the end of the world.
The game just doesn't require that level of max stat precision, the people who emphasise it either by buying "OP" Rivens or crying that Rivens have broken the game need to calm down a bit, who are they competing against... Only each other for some apparent need to satisfy their lust to swing around intangible e-peen at each other... The Grineer and Corpus etc. die all the same, Riven or not.

Edited by Carnage2K4
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7 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

Confused Tom Hanks GIF

if you have to ask, then either, you don't know Rivens, or you don't know what *some* Exalted weapons can do. 

what we need is a total revisit to all of them: to make all of them powerful, but not to the point that angrily swooshing is a viable playstyle. the way they can do this is by taking a page from Destiny and making Exalted Melees have a short, fixed duration, and a kill requirement to activate them, but the weapons' themselves can so ludicrously unthinkable amounts of damage that can one hit just about anything. you absolutely CAN have absurd levels of power, as long as you're willing to put in just a little effort for it. 

This sounds along the line of alternative  resource systems besides mana, and cool downs. I don’t think DE is going to budge even though they could help with the games balance a whole hell of a lot.

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On 2020-12-04 at 5:22 PM, Carnage2K4 said:

The point of Rivens was to bring weak or disused weapons up to the power level of newer more interesting weapons, why rivens are not required for exalted weapons is because their power level needs to be directly controlled by the game comparatively to the WFs kit itself, not some vague generalized popular usage to power value that is dynamic and changes every 3 months to compensate to meta changes.
The WFs and their powers need to be stable and controlled, not based in random chance or popularity, and Exalted weapons are Powers/Abilities before they are weapons.


As to other points in this thread:
I disagree that Rivens have 'broken the game', the only time they are broken is when a new OP weapon variant comes out and its Riven has 4-5 points to its disposition.
I get along perfectly fine with or without a Riven in my weapons, I can do all the content I can kill what I need to and my WFs are effective at high level.

Frankly I feel the 'Riven issues' I see posed by others here are mostly based on some ethereal concept that min-maxing is the only way you can get anywhere in this game, it's not and frankly the idea that Rivens break the game is nonsense. For me I commonly dredge up old weapons and give them new life if I happen to get a 5 disposition Riven for them. No Riven is worth 500+ plat just so you can get that extra few percentage points of crit, to me the Rivens are not the issue, it's the people who drive market costs for this insatiable need to have the absolute best top tier best 1% Riven for their 'best' loadout weapon or it's the end of the world.
The game just doesn't require that level of max stat precision, the people who emphasise it either by buying "OP" Rivens or crying that Rivens have broken the game need to calm down a bit, who are they competing against... Only each other for some apparent need to satisfy their lust to swing around intangible e-peen at each other... The Grineer and Corpus etc. die all the same, Riven or not.

"But muh weak weapon buffs".

 

That ship sailed dude. There are weapons so bad no riven will ever make them competitive and weapons like nikana prime that melt even with no riven. 

 

Iron staff costs energy to use.

Requires use of a particular warframe.

Is turned off by nullifiers.

Is useless against arbitration drones.

No blood rush.

No weeping wounds. 

No riven mods. 

Mediocre base stats. 

There are *several* melee weapons that despite not having a single one of these downsides do significantly more DPS. 

 

Meanwhile Khora is still running around effectively having a 5/5 dispo.

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They should get reworked instead. Make them deal more damage or give them some unique mechanics like synergies with certain abilities.  Excalted blade could apply it's mods and combo counter to radial javelin for example. Wukong could get extra range on his 3rd ability while Iron staff is active etc.

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On 2020-12-04 at 3:16 PM, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

But atlas and khora's pseudo exalted weapons can use augments and riven mods *and* acolyte mods? 

 

I dont get why this is still a thing. 

 

*cries in iron staff*

because DE already realized rivens are the worst thing they ever put in the game and aren't looking to add to that and the only reason they havent done anything drastic as of now is because people have spent way more money than they should on rivens and they would get more backlash than they can handle.

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15 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

That ship sailed dude... no riven will ever make them competitive

Refer to my point about this ethereal concept that min-maxing is the only way you can get anywhere in this game...
Who are you being "competitive" with?
If you think WF is going to cater to the 5 guys who have an addiction to 6 hours Steel Path Mot Survivals, I got news for you. WF is catering to the second quartile of players, not the outliers, most players don't care about being "competitive", this game is so casual that any basic build works as long as you have about 4 primary mods that work with that weapon type, being 'competitive' just doesn't matter as long as things die in 80% of missions, which they do.

I don't know what "ship" you're talking about, I wasn't providing an option to be considered, I was stating their intent with Rivens, you can disagree that it's worked, but that's what it was.
 

15 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Iron staff costs energy to use.

Requires use of a particular warframe

Meanwhile Khora is still running around

As for the Iron Staff Vs Khoras Whip, as I said, WF ability power level is relative to the WF and its abilities, now maybe Khora is OP and Wukong weak, but you have to consider the abilities in respect to the WF itself and then that WF as a whole in comparison to other WFs, not one ability in comparison to other weapons, because as I said, they ARE abilities before they are weapons, so they are balanced in respect to overall abilities contributing to the WF, how Iron Staff fairs directly to other weapons, and even other WF abilities is irrelevant, it's not being balanced against other WF abilities and other weapons but to the power level of the WF as a whole.

If DE sees Wukong and Khora on an even power level, then in order to increase Iron Staff's effectiveness, they would need to nerf another Wukong ability to compensate and keep the WFs balanced. DE trying to balance the power levels of WFs and maintain control over that is why you'll never see rivens for abilities. Like it or not, that's just how it is.

Edited by Carnage2K4
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On 2020-12-04 at 8:34 PM, Aldain said:

The excuse of "weapon balancing" has long since been proven to ring hollow, since weak weapons can't benefit from the exponential design of Riven mods but strong weapons can get the same mileage out of a Riven with a much lower disposition.

So same riven acting different on different variants of the same weapon isn't an attempt to address that?

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Abilities need better general balance, they should be as good as Riven weapons without a Riven, not seeking Rivens to reach max potential. Since you can't switch your Exalted weapon to access a Riven, they shouldn't be available for them. With any other Riven you are motivated to select the weapon because you have a Riven for it, that's not applicable for abilities, you get to a point where your motivating frame choices based on which one you have a exalted Riven for. 

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