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Please buff Tigris Prime


WOWESOMUCHDOGE

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On 2020-12-05 at 8:04 AM, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

Tigris need a buff.

Technically, it just needs to have the nerf by pellet count for shotguns undone/properly calculated.
It would have 25% status per pellet if DE did the probability calculation proper (3x30 aka 90% chance per shot total spread across 8 chances/rolls is 25%~ per pellet).

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15 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Technically, it just needs to have the nerf by pellet count for shotguns undone/properly calculated.
It would have 25% status per pellet if DE did the probability calculation proper (3x30 aka 90% chance per shot total spread across 8 chances/rolls is 25%~ per pellet).

Like clockwork.

On 2020-11-17 at 7:17 PM, TheLexiConArtist said:

It literally and demonstrably isn't.

 

Fig. 1: Status per second improvement ratio charted against pellet count (base and modded to 340%). Trend negligible at base, visibly positive (not counting fixed 100%-status outliers) after mods.

morecharto.png

 

Fig. 2: Status per second improvement ratio charted against original status chance. Trend very visibly negative in both cases.

ACTUAL-NERF.png

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On 2020-12-07 at 9:30 PM, TheLexiConArtist said:

And you can keep basing your conclusions  on flawed logic, won't change it being wrong. Just doing my duty of showing the Mathematical Facts here.

Nice projecting but no, you lying while posting literally nothing of value. If you want some actual facts, here (bit of rounding errors from sub 2 decimals but who gives a damn).

Alternatively if you want it even simpler: The exergis is the only shotgun that effectively wasnt changed because nerfing by pellet count and having 3 pellets results in the same number, if DE didnt nerf by pellet count the absolute minimum per pellet chance it would have is 41.47% (because in the fantasy world where they didnt explicitly state that status chance was being tripled but merely per pellet chance, 13.825x3 isnt 36).
 

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On 2020-12-07 at 10:20 PM, Andele3025 said:

-snip-

Actually that 4 events with 25% always means 100% is just how humans try to process RNG. To understand stuff like this, you need to stop grouping chances into a group. But rather think about it as a singular event for all four.

You can basically see it as. 1/4, 1/4, 1/4, 1/4. Rather than it being a 100% chance to happen cause its statistically likely and 25x4 is 100. If I flip a coin 4 times and its a 50/50, I could still land on the same side 4 times. Just more likely that with multiple attempts you're likely to get what you want.

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17 minutes ago, Whitestrake0 said:

Actually that 4 events with 25% always means 100% is just how humans try to process RNG.

I get the idea of what you wanna say but it still doesnt, anyone with 7th grade and beyond math should know this (or anyone that knows of the gamblers fallact) since in real life math doesnt use pseudo random distribution/chance isnt scaled nor additive.

No matter if you group it or not the actual IRL result is the same because the only relevant variables are per event itself.

4 25% chances when treated as a single event merely changes how it might be written down from 4 events of 25% to one of 4 31~% chance of nothing, 42~% chance of the event happening once, 21~% chance of it happening twice, 4.7~% of it happening 3 times and 0.4~% chance of it happening all 4 times. Its exactly why 4 rad relics be it you doing solo or doing a full radshare arent 40%.

And writing chance down as 4x25% still isnt 100 because the sign after = wouldnt be another % but P(n).

 

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4 minutes ago, WOWESOMUCHDOGE said:

I have no idea whats going on in the last 3 post

A very long way of saying: total probability and individual chance are different things and you cant just divide probability and get accurate results/confusing them gives you trash results (like giving the tigris prime 11.25% status chance per pellet instead of 25% it should have had were its status chance multiplied x3).

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Did they shoot Tigris to irrelevancy? I don't think so. I can do regular content with it just fine. Maybe try stop comparing things to the current one shot meta?

Come on Pre-nerf status shotguns are absolutely ridiculous. It's obvious DE won't let you proc 20 status at once in one click. This change made it more consistent.

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4 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Come on Pre-nerf status shotguns are absolutely ridiculous. It's obvious DE won't let you proc 20 status at once in one click. This change made it more consistent.

40-45 procs a second is literally where other status guns are. Or would you call the baza~baza prime (which have about the same status performance as the post nerf status shotties) if its crit chance and crit damage were reduced to 10% and 2x a status rifle?

Even pre-nerf tigris prime was still below that. Hell most hybrid guns are now better at status than the "status shotgun" that was the tigris prime (and boar prime and strun wraith).

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14 hours ago, WOWESOMUCHDOGE said:

I have no idea whats going on in the last 3 post

Status chance of shotguns used to use smudgy maths to turn the Arsenal stat, which was a probability of proccing at least one status per trigger pull, back into a literal status chance per shotgun pellet value behind the scenes - and broke because that average proc chance value could become modded over 100% (which DE had to make artificially default to 100% status chance per pellet, as it literally becomes incalculable in the equation because this sort of probability cannot hit or exceed 100%, sort of like the old 'divide by zero' problem). Because of this smudgy maths, status meant almost nothing unless you could hit 99%-100% (exponential gains until it broke at 100%).

When DE changed the status, they said they wanted to buff chances by about 3 times. This is actually what happened, as you can see in the charts I posted previously, the base values of status chances per shotgun pellet got improved by 2.4 to 2.8 depending on the shotgun's original status chance statistic (not based on the original pellet count, as is erroneously claimed).

What DE did not mean is that the fundamentally wrong value (that original 'probability of at least one proc per shot' which led to things breaking) was going to be tripled. (30% -probability of {procs>0} -> 90% probability of {procs>0}) as this would just be using the same problem maths as before to convert it back and would not make the lower-status shotguns equivalently better at their job as higher-status shotguns, due to the whole exponential curve thing.

 

Unfortunately, Andele305 refuses to accept the fact that using the 'at least one probability' was always the wrong tool for this job. What actually matters is the mean average of procs a weapon can inflict, which is "Status per pellet * pellets per shot * fire rate". A rifle has 1 pellet (bullet) per shot. A shotgun has more. They now use the same equation to compare, to balance, and scale linearly with mods - adding 100% status chance in mods is now exactly 2 times the procs because it's not trying to redistribute that gain over a number of pellets like it did previously.

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On 2020-12-04 at 6:06 PM, bad4youLT said:

Heres your Tigris prime buff 

even Exergis ended up nerfed in that regard in the long run, with IPS losing the extra weighting, hehe.

19 hours ago, WOWESOMUCHDOGE said:

I have no idea whats going on in the last 3 post

an argument of pedantic technicalities, with one party being very adamant to consume peoples' time finding ways to justify the state of Shotguns, by comparing things unmodded when nothing has ever been compared unmodded in the entire history of the game, since 2013.

don't worry about it, all you need to know is that yes Shotguns got massively nerfed and ones being given a Status role are obsolete compared to other things you could Equip because they lose much more in Fire Rate than they gain in Status, compared to many other Weapons out there. that's all that really matters at the end of the day.

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48 minutes ago, taiiat said:

even Exergis ended up nerfed in that regard in the long run, with IPS losing the extra weighting, hehe.

an argument of pedantic technicalities, with one party being very adamant to consume peoples' time finding ways to justify the state of Shotguns, by comparing things unmodded when nothing has ever been compared unmodded in the entire history of the game, since 2013.

don't worry about it, all you need to know is that yes Shotguns got massively nerfed and ones being given a Status role are obsolete compared to other things you could Equip because they lose much more in Fire Rate than they gain in Status, compared to many other Weapons out there. that's all that really matters at the end of the day.

I was going to quibble that higher status / higher pellet shotguns have a little tiny niche in being able to inflict a lot of status with one trigger pull...leaving aside the Knukor, because zomglolwtfbbqbalance.    But I realized that Amprex and Atomos  outshine most  shotguns too in "burst status".

I suppose you do have to hold the trigger like a tenth of a second to activate chain beam weapons though.  So status shotties are still the status alpha strike kings for that tiny fraction of a second! Maybe! 💩

 

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6 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I suppose you do have to hold the trigger like a tenth of a second to activate chain beam weapons though.  So status shotties are still the status alpha strike kings for that tiny fraction of a second! Maybe!

yes, as long as the only timeframe considered is less than a tenth of a second (less than one Frame for 90%+ of the Playerbase playing at 60FPS), Status Shotguns can have a role!
:D

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