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Stalker Mode should be part of Steel Path. No Opt out.


Hypernaut1

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With a few tweaks:

- no bullet-jumping for Stalker;

- Stalker is forced to be near the target player in endless-type missions;

- Stalker can’t damage objectives;

- solo mode doesn’t pause the game in Steel Path.

 

Also, playing as Stalker for 20 games/successfully killing a target player rewards universal alt helmet (Stalker’s helmet, obviously).

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1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

No. Steel path isn't optional because there is mastery behind every steel path node. It's already a pointless chore don't make it worse.

Worse? Stick to regular star chart. MR is optional. If its a chore, thats a personal problem. 

Steel Path should be for those of us that actually want to be engaged with the content. I hope the "not fair. too hard" crowd can leave this mode alone, 

Umbra was a mistake. 

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10 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Worse? Stick to regular star chart. MR is optional. If its a chore, thats a personal problem. 

Steel Path should be for those of us that actually want to be engaged with the content. I hope the "not fair. too hard" crowd can leave this mode alone, 

Umbra was a mistake. 

Mastery rank is the main point of Warframe's gameplay loop. You complete the starchart, you level all the weapons, you get really good endgame Incentives for doing it. Mastery rank is core to the game. The second they put mastery behind the steel path nodes they made them mandatory. 

"engaged" with the content my left butt cheek. Steel path isn't hard, it's boring. if I enjoyed bullet sponges for all my enemies I'd go play destiny. Steel path is a chore because it's not engaging, it's not because it's "unfair and too hard". The only reason I haven't finished it is because it puts me to sleep.

So no you can take your forced pvp and stick it in as optional, opt in only or you can ask for a stalker mode conclave mode, but would you people who like pvp stop trying to force it on the rest of us that hate it. 

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10 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Forcing PvP into Steel Path. That won't end well...

 

I say let them try and then be surprised things end up even more toxic.
If I were still playing and was the host, I'd simply leave each time a Stalker player would show up. Let them suffer through host migration.

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23 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Mastery rank is the main point of Warframe's gameplay loop. You complete the starchart, you level all the weapons, you get really good endgame Incentives for doing it. Mastery rank is core to the game. The second they put mastery behind the steel path nodes they made them mandatory. 

"engaged" with the content my left butt cheek. Steel path isn't hard, it's boring. if I enjoyed bullet sponges for all my enemies I'd go play destiny. Steel path is a chore because it's not engaging, it's not because it's "unfair and too hard". The only reason I haven't finished it is because it puts me to sleep.

So no you can take your forced pvp and stick it in as optional, opt in only or you can ask for a stalker mode conclave mode, but would you people who like pvp stop trying to force it on the rest of us that hate it. 

i feel sorry for people that force themselves to play games that "put them to sleep". Whats the point of catering to players like you when you're determined to be miserable anyway? 

You really sound like the LAST person the devs should listen too. Because no small change is going to suddenly change your mind. You are literally just asking for the mode to be as simple as possible to feed your OCD addiction to MR. YOU placed that importance on maxing out MR, not the game. Also, a Stalker in SP isnt going to suddenly make that MR go away. At worse its a random death (if youre really bad) every now and then. So the ridiculous argument of "but my MR" doesnt even make sense here. 

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5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i feel sorry for people that force themselves to play games that "put them to sleep". Whats the point of catering to players like you when you're determined to be miserable anyway? 

You really sound like the LAST person the devs should listen too. Because no small change is going to suddenly change your mind. You are literally just asking for the mode to be as simple as possible to feed your OCD addiction to MR. YOU placed that importance on maxing out MR, not the game. Also, a Stalker in SP isnt going to suddenly make that MR go away. At worse its a random death (if youre really bad) every now and then. So the ridiculous argument of "but my MR" doesnt even make sense here. 

If the mastery wasn't there I wouldn't play the game mode at all. I was happy for people that steel path was going to exist when it was just cosmetics and self satisfaction. Instead they locked account progression behind it and therefore for players like me, be they completionists or those that always chase the bigger number, it's now mandatory. That fact that you lack the empathy to understand players motivated by things you are not makes *me* think you are the last person someone should listen to about game design.

You're conflating 2 points: 1. that I don't consider mastery optional and therefore steel path isn't either and 2. You shouldn't force PVP into the PVE side of the game. I don't like pvp in any form, therefore I do not play conclave, forcing stalker mode into steal path is forcing people to play PVP. We have a game mode for that, every time that DE has put in events that focus on conclave and put in rewards to make/encourage the PVE side of the playerbase to participate there is massive backlash because say it with me now: PVE ONLY PLAYERS DO NOT WANT TO BE FORCED TO PLAY PVP. No a random death isn't going to stop me but forcing this into steel path just makes sure neither I nor the stalker player have any fun because I'll just wait for them to kill me and move on with my game. We all get to have opinions about what we want in the game Insulting me for my play style and goals is unwarranted.

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I don't really get why you want to force other like that, there are ways to make it happens so that everyone could have the choice. This kind of thread where you want to force everyone into it just make the people who want this mod look bad.

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39 minutes ago, Gilmaesh said:

I don't really get why you want to force other like that, there are ways to make it happens so that everyone could have the choice. This kind of thread where you want to force everyone into it just make the people who want this mod look bad.

i dont get why people are acting like a random stalker is some full fledged PvP in every mission?. All this talk of choice, and people's feelings??? Its the same stalker you might get anyway, with human A.I. 

but anyway- im done arguing with players having an existential crisis over it. Its a suggestion. Its up to DE  to decide what they want to do. 

 

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

We all get to have opinions about what we want in the game Insulting me for my play style and goals is unwarranted.

oh give me a break with this "insulting my playstyle" nonsense. You are the one talking about how much you HATE  SteelPath, yet you still want it to cater to you. You dont have a style you have an obsession. Id be more open to your argument if you at least valued the game mode. All you want is a farm (that you hate) to satiate your OCD. Thats a personal problem, nothing to do with the game.

7 hours ago, Drasiel said:

...it's boring. ......Steel path is a chore ..... it's not engaging, .....puts me to sleep.

Boring yourself to sleep isnt a "playstyle". Dont play what you dont enjoy is advice, not an insult. 

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1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i dont get why people are acting like a random stalker is some full fledged PvP in every mission?. All this talk of choice, and people's feelings??? Its the same stalker you might get anyway, with human A.I. 

but anyway- im done arguing with players having an existential crisis over it. Its a suggestion. Its up to DE  to decide what they want to do. 

 

oh give me a break with this "insulting my playstyle" nonsense. You are the one talking about how much you HATE  SteelPath, yet you still want it to cater to you. You dont have a style you have an obsession. Id be more open to your argument if you at least valued the game mode. All you want is a farm (that you hate) to satiate your OCD. Thats a personal problem, nothing to do with the game.

Boring yourself to sleep isnt a "playstyle". Dont play what you dont enjoy is advice, not an insult. 

I'm not asking it to cater to me, I'm saying adding PVP to it is a bad idea. You want PVP? go play conclave, keep it out of PVE game modes or what you seem steadfastly against, make it opt in only. It's completely valid to leave feedback on suggestions for game modes I don't find engaging or enjoyable because I don't want the game mode to end up worse than I already consider it. You obviously like steel path but that doesn't make your opinion the only valid one here.

All warframe is in it's simplest form, is a farm connected by combat encounters that's the entire basis of the genre it is part of, that's what looter shooters are, it's half the name. 90% of the time in warframe the gameplay is great and makes meeting your goals that much more enjoyable but there's always going to be that one farm you don't like it's part of the nature of the game. If we just stopped playing when a section of the game was less than palatable most people would never have gotten nidus, or condition overload, or the hema, or you know ever placed highly in events.  Saying I'm obsessed, have OCD, and that completionism isn't a playstyle is so narrowminded you must be going negative in your range stat. You are failing to understand: Collecting all the weapons, all the frames (twice),  levelling up my mastery, those are my game goals those are what I enjoy most when I accomplish them and even if some of  the steps to those goals aren't the most enjoyable doesn't mean the entire journey isn't worth taking. Yeah steel path is a boring unengaging chore that puts me to sleep but every time I finish a mission I get a nice big sense of satisfaction that one more is down and less to go. Sometimes you play a game for the gameplay other times you play a game for the gameplay rewards. What's insulting is you wilfully ignoring a play style that has existed since the dawn of video games. Look up collectathons sometime, it was the genre that spawned the play style.

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2 hours ago, Drasiel said:

I'm not asking it to cater to me, I'm saying adding PVP to it is a bad idea. You want PVP? go play conclave, keep it out of PVE game modes or what you seem steadfastly against, make it opt in only. It's completely valid to leave feedback on suggestions for game modes I don't find engaging or enjoyable because I don't want the game mode to end up worse than I already consider it. You obviously like steel path but that doesn't make your opinion the only valid one here.

All warframe is in it's simplest form, is a farm connected by combat encounters that's the entire basis of the genre it is part of, that's what looter shooters are, it's half the name. 90% of the time in warframe the gameplay is great and makes meeting your goals that much more enjoyable but there's always going to be that one farm you don't like it's part of the nature of the game. If we just stopped playing when a section of the game was less than palatable most people would never have gotten nidus, or condition overload, or the hema, or you know ever placed highly in events.  Saying I'm obsessed, have OCD, and that completionism isn't a playstyle is so narrowminded you must be going negative in your range stat. You are failing to understand: Collecting all the weapons, all the frames (twice),  levelling up my mastery, those are my game goals those are what I enjoy most when I accomplish them and even if some of  the steps to those goals aren't the most enjoyable doesn't mean the entire journey isn't worth taking. Yeah steel path is a boring unengaging chore that puts me to sleep but every time I finish a mission I get a nice big sense of satisfaction that one more is down and less to go. Sometimes you play a game for the gameplay other times you play a game for the gameplay rewards. What's insulting is you wilfully ignoring a play style that has existed since the dawn of video games. Look up collectathons sometime, it was the genre that spawned the play style.

i have nothing against being a completionist, farming or grinding. What i take issue with is being a SALTY completionist. I dont need the pointless lecture on playstyles. I play Warframe. I know all about grinding and collecting. 

11 hours ago, Drasiel said:

...it's boring. ......Steel path is a chore ..... it's not engaging, .....puts me to sleep.

Some people disagree with Stalker mode. Fine, We all have different ideas about what we want in this game. You are just on a whole other level of hyperbole and overreaction to the point where you're going on rants about playstyles and collecting while also crapping on SteelPath and claiming you barely play it. 

"i dont like getting ganked by people" ok fine, i think it can be fun. We agree to disagree. All that extra nonsense is pointless. 

 

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@Hypernaut1 Personally I enjoy steel path for what it is. However, since DE is bringing ranks above and beyond MR30, the steel path content is not optional if you want to keep up with the content and mastery. I think Drasiel is simply stating that for those players who already dont enjoy it, who now are begrudgingly going through it, should not also be forced into a pvp battle with a player controlled stalker.

Personally I dont mind it, but im inclined to agree that players shouldnt be forced into it.

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9 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

@Hypernaut1 Personally I enjoy steel path for what it is. However, since DE is bringing ranks above and beyond MR30, the steel path content is not optional if you want to keep up with the content and mastery. I think Drasiel is simply stating that for those players who already dont enjoy it, who now are begrudgingly going through it, should not also be forced into a pvp battle with a player controlled stalker.

Personally I dont mind it, but im inclined to agree that players shouldnt be forced into it.

OK. I just personally dont see the huge difference. I play SP and get ganked by the acolytes on occasion, You encounter them in almost every mission now. 

While i understand that some just dont like geting ganked by other players, i dont like the idea of holding SP "hostage" to players claiming that they NEED the MR therefore the mode needs to cater to them. If its not Player Stalker, then what else isnt goinmg to be acceptable to them because they want MR? Thats where i take issue. SP should be free for DE to experiment with. The point of SP was to give a challenge. DE should be free to add whatever they want to it. 

argue that you dont like PvP- sure. The MR argument should not be encouraged though. This is why so many didn't want rewards for SP. But is it fair to remove rewards for people that enjoy playing the game because you fear people that DONt enjoy it complaining? i dont get it. 

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1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

OK. I just personally dont see the huge difference. I play SP and get ganked by the acolytes on occasion, You encounter them in almost every mission now. 

While i understand that some just dont like geting ganked by other players, i dont like the idea of holding SP "hostage" to players claiming that they NEED the MR therefore the mode needs to cater to them. If its not Player Stalker, then what else isnt goinmg to be acceptable to them because they want MR? Thats where i take issue. SP should be free for DE to experiment with. The point of SP was to give a challenge. DE should be free to add whatever they want to it. 

argue that you dont like PvP- sure. The MR argument should not be encouraged though. This is why so many didn't want rewards for SP. But is it fair to remove rewards for people that enjoy playing the game because you fear people that DONt enjoy it complaining? i dont get it. 

Im not saying dont add the feature to SP, im saying dont force reluctant players to engage with it. It could very easily be as simple as having another switch next to the steel path switch in navigation.

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17 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

OK. I just personally dont see the huge difference. I play SP and get ganked by the acolytes on occasion, You encounter them in almost every mission now. 

Acolytes are dumb, but still manage to gank you with their cheap tactics (boy I sure do love my controls not responding with no feedback as to why, Acolyte silence) and you want to force players to deal with them with a human element wielding the tools better than dumb Warframe AI does.

Acolytes (and the Stalker) can be non-issues which die in seconds if you bring certain obligatory meta-mechanics to bear against them, and you want to offer players the chance to load into someone else's mission only to suffer this instant defeat and load back out having wasted their time.

 

There's vanishingly little 'honourable combat' middle ground. It's primarily gank or be ganked, no matter what someone's probably going to be frustrated, so if you're not making the whole thing a willing opt-in both ways, it's a lose-lose situation.

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17 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i have nothing against being a completionist, farming or grinding. What i take issue with is being a SALTY completionist. I dont need the pointless lecture on playstyles. I play Warframe. I know all about grinding and collecting. 

Some people disagree with Stalker mode. Fine, We all have different ideas about what we want in this game. You are just on a whole other level of hyperbole and overreaction to the point where you're going on rants about playstyles and collecting while also crapping on SteelPath and claiming you barely play it. 

"i dont like getting ganked by people" ok fine, i think it can be fun. We agree to disagree. All that extra nonsense is pointless. 

 

Oh okay cool so we've got to the crux of the issue then, you acknowledge completionism isn't an obsessive mental defect but a valid play style that exists in warframe already. Your problem isn't that you don't understand nor recognize the play style and what drives it but that you don't like how I express myself. You know if you'd skipped right to that from the beginning you wouldn't have gotten a "lecture" where I try to explain why I enjoy playing the way I do to a person I legitimately thought didn't understand the premise.

"I don't like getting ganked by people" isn't the reason, the reason is  I don't want to fight against other players. period. full stop. It doesn't matter if I win or lose. I don't want mandatory PVP added into a PVE game mode, especially one that is now tied to account progression.

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On 2020-12-07 at 9:12 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

Steel Path should be for those of us that actually want to be engaged with the content

If that's true then I guess it would be fine if it Didn't reward MR...

But there's no point in wondering what if.... It does Offer MR so naturally players will feel compelled to do it.

On 2020-12-07 at 9:05 AM, DrivaMain said:

Forcing PvP into Steel Path. That won't end well...

 

 

On 2020-12-07 at 7:27 PM, Drasiel said:

So no you can take your forced pvp and stick it in as optional, opt in only or you can ask for a stalker mode conclave mode, but would you people who like pvp stop trying to force it on the rest of us that hate it. 

 

On 2020-12-07 at 10:41 PM, TheLexiConArtist said:

If I wanted to be Dark Souls invasion-ganked, I'd play Dark Souls.

And even there they have ways of opting-out, last I heard.

Wait wait wait !!!!

Warframe has invasions now !!??? :O

I haven't played since Steel Path Update... When did this get added in ?

On 2020-12-09 at 1:04 AM, Drasiel said:

 

"I don't like getting ganked by people" isn't the reason, the reason is  I don't want to fight against other players. period. full stop. It doesn't matter if I win or lose. I don't want mandatory PVP added into a PVE game mode, especially one that is now tied to account progression.

I don't think someone who enjoys making others feel miserable is capable of grasping this Concept... 

If anything I think the reason he/she targeted you in this Thread is the same reason players do invasions in Dark Souls.... Just to #*!% with you. Atleast here you have the Option of Adding him to your Ignore List.... :)

 

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3 hours ago, Lutesque said:

<snip>

Wait wait wait !!!!

Warframe has invasions now !!??? :O

I haven't played since Steel Path Update... When did this get added in ?

I don't think someone who enjoys making others feel miserable is capable of grasping this Concept... 

If anything I think the reason he/she targeted you in this Thread is the same reason players do invasions in Dark Souls.... Just to #*!% with you. Atleast here you have the Option of Adding him to your Ignore List.... :)

 

Warframe has dark souls-esque invasions in only a technical sense: The devs have access to a system where instead of AI stalker a dev can take control of stalker and play him as you would a warframe with the goal of killing players. It's been used at tennocon and during a couple streams. Players have never had access to it although there have been a lot of requests to have it added to the game. I don't see anything wrong with adding it, as long as it's an opt in system.

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On 2020-12-07 at 10:35 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

While i understand that some just dont like geting ganked by other players, i dont like the idea of holding SP "hostage" to players claiming that they NEED the MR therefore the mode needs to cater to them.

And while I understand that some players enjoy the idea of ganking other players, I don't like the idea of holding SP (a mode that has already been released as PvE content) "hostage" to players claiming they NEED the enjoyment therefore the mode needs to cater to them "ONLY" as per your suggestion:

On 2020-12-06 at 8:20 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

Stalker Mode should be part of Steel Path. No Opt out.

If you had suggested it as an Opt In option I would have up-voted you. I always love more options even if they aren't options I would necessarily partake in.

I also agree with you about the umbra forma being a mistake.

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On 2020-12-07 at 1:56 AM, Xaero said:

- solo mode doesn’t pause the game in Steel Path.

I don't see any good reason to do this. It's nothing more than a simple convenience to have for solo players - especially for those who tend to have something irl pop up frequently (kids/family, work, etc).  If it's meant to make it more "compatible" with adding in a no-opt-out stalker mode, that's not gonna stop someone who just really doesn't want to deal with pvp from deliberately waiting for them to load in, and waste the player stalker's time by making them sit through a host migration... or worse...

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4 hours ago, Lokidus_Prime said:

I don't see any good reason to do this. It's nothing more than a simple convenience to have for solo players - especially for those who tend to have something irl pop up frequently (kids/family, work, etc).  If it's meant to make it more "compatible" with adding in a no-opt-out stalker mode, that's not gonna stop someone who just really doesn't want to deal with pvp from deliberately waiting for them to load in, and waste the player stalker's time by making them sit through a host migration... or worse...

We're discussing OP's idea, are we not? If there's a Stalker mode with no opt-out, removing pause from solo is necessary.

"Host migration or worse"? Why have a host migration at all? It's not like Stalker player will play the mission instead of host player. Leaving would just kick Stalker player back to his base and score an automatic win.

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