why are most people against pvp being in Warframe?

[Iccotak]

PvP was added in later due to demand - only for that demand to realize why it doesn't work in Warframe.

It was designed entirely around PvE so PvP doesn't really work

[ReaverKane]

32 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

PvP was added in later due to demand - only for that demand to realize why it doesn't work in Warframe.

It was designed entirely around PvE so PvP doesn't really work

It works on Warframe. Just not with the current server structure. The gameplay is awesome for PvP (with proper care towards balance), its just the servers that create the issues, with the host having a HUGE advantage over the rest in terms of ping.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

On 2020-12-08 at 1:56 AM, (NSW)VenTheWeeb said:

it seems like a lot of people don't want Conclave to improve and/or just want it removed from the game completely. like I get that pvp games always have more toxic players but pve games can have them so Warframe already has those players like sure you can argue that it will get worse because somehow improved conclave = attracting more of these players but is that really gonna ruin your experience like you can just mute them. 

IMO, it’s largely because if you want PVP, you go and play one of the various excellent PVP titles.

It would take the warframe devs year to catch up to the PvP performance other games can offer, and the rest of the game would be neglected in that process.

[(XBOX)Dark SalvationX]

10 hours ago, Aesthier said:

Because playing paintball in a low gravity bouncy castle the size of a gymnasium requires a high level of strategy and skill 🤦‍♂️.

To be honest I played Unreal Tournament for a couple of years and, even though I had a lot of fun doing it, after a while it just got old. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Conclave with all its wondrous graphics advancements is mechanically just a slower crap version of UT at this point.

While I enjoyed UT I just simply grew out of it over time but I think it is sorta sad that newer players don't really have anything really like that to enjoy. (Bunny hop in BF are you kidding me?) Conclave is probably the closest in the freedom of movement but right now there just aren't enough players. New players come in and instantly get spawn killed by vets who are just overly excited to finally see someone online to fight.

As for reaching the potential it is capable of at this point they would have to just make a completely separate game with dedicated servers. Something where neither side (PvP/PvE) is caused undue harm by the nerfs or buffs from the other and with better maps that promote improved tactics, strategy, skill as well as the majority of parkour mechanics that players simply don't even use. (There is a lot more potential than just double jumping all day back and forth trying to get the enemy to line up in your sights)

I think if they released it as a different game they could break away from some of the overly negative hype that has generated through the last several years as well as put everyone on equal footing at day one so new players are more interested in it.

I know I would give it a try for a few days at least just to see how it turned out.

 

 

 

Yeah i grew up on unreal tournament. People just dont understand and never will because they lack skill to enjoy it. 

 

[Corvid]

55 minutes ago, (XBOX)Dark SalvationX said:

People just dont understand and never will because they lack skill to enjoy it.

Or they just don't enjoy PvP, with skill having nothing to do with it.

Seriously, this is the sort of stuff we're referring to when we say PvP players are toxic. They always seem to assume that not liking PvP is due to some inadequacy.

[Aldain]

Just now, Corvid said:

Or they just don't enjoy PvP, with skill having nothing to do with it.

Seriously, this is the sort of stuff we're referring to when we say PvP players are toxic. They always seem to assume that not liking PvP is due to some inadequacy.

+1

You don't get people to join in on a game by saying "If you don't like this you're a pathetic loser" because most people will just say "Well screw you I guess?".

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Or they just don't enjoy PvP, with skill having nothing to do with it.

Seriously, this is the sort of stuff we're referring to when we say PvP players are toxic. They always seem to assume that not liking PvP is due to some inadequacy.

As they say 1000x this...

[Thando]

6 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

...(with proper care towards balance)...

Which inevitable ends up having impact on PvE balance, design and player base and rarely if ever positively for the PvE players.

[ReaverKane]

25 minutes ago, Thando said:

Which inevitable ends up having impact on PvE balance, design and player base and rarely if ever positively for the PvE players.

You realize that weapons and warframes ALREADY have different balance in Conclave and PvE, right?

[Venus-Venera]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Iccotak:

PvP was added in later due to demand - only for that demand to realize why it doesn't work in Warframe.

It was designed entirely around PvE so PvP doesn't really work

that can't work either. the games have got used to lame movements. for example that nobody jumps too high and everything is at a certain height. in addition, most of the fights takes place in mele range. in warframe there are headshots possible and you hardly see them from a great distance. beginners after work don't have such aim and it gets a lot of frustrating going on.

pvP is good. and that it is optional like k-drive or railjack is so much the better.

[Iccotak]

1 minute ago, Battle.Mage said:

pvP is good. and that it is optional like k-drive or railjack is so much the better.

except Railjacks are being developed to become integral to the warframe experience, replace all the archwing missions, and overall be connected to everything in the game. That's the goal, not a side thing but a core aspect of the PvE space ninja action shooter experience

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb Iccotak:

except Railjacks are being developed to become integral to the warframe experience, replace all the archwing missions, and overall be connected to everything in the game. That's the goal, not a side thing but a core aspect of the PvE space ninja action shooter experience

everything is being developed further? i also like that about warframe with the huge updates.
and many don't come here because warframe is a second job. but for action and adventure. in other areas the competition is far too good.

[MystMan]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

Or they just don't enjoy PvP, with skill having nothing to do with it.

Seriously, this is the sort of stuff we're referring to when we say PvP players are toxic. They always seem to assume that not liking PvP is due to some inadequacy.

They project themselves unto others.  If others don't like what they like, they're not "real gamers".  (literally what is often said). That narcissistic behavior is why pvp has its stigma.

I used to play pvp games over a decade ago, doom, duke3d and UT all the way up to L4D versus modes. The social aspect just degraded itself over the years. I just want to play a game but for the most part I was simply a spectator to griefing, cheating, verbal abuse, kicking (if the game has that feature), lobbies shutting down, ragequitting, etc etc.
After the umpteenth angry Russian and screaming kids, I just couldn't be bothered anymore and moved away from it all. If I wanted to experience random people's social breakdown, I'd watch sleazy talkshows.

People used to say "if you don't like this game, then go play X".  Well, that's not really a possibility anymore since if X doesn't have pvp in it, people WILL flood to it demanding that it must have pvp. Because apparently a 100% PVE game isn't allowed to exist.  If all those countless pvp games out there can't satisfy you, what makes somebody think that adding it as an afterthought patch to a game not designed for it will be better?

Warframe is 7 years old. DE tried 3-4 times to do pvp. And that cancelled Amazing Eternal games. If after all that they still can't get it right, it's not gonna happen. No such thing as 6th time's the charm. Adding that Komi board game from The Sacrifice quest as pvp has an actual much better chance of being received positive.

Either that or add a Rock-Paper-Scissors minigame; pvp at its most basic.  LMAO  

[Corvid]

14 minutes ago, MystMan said:

And that cancelled Amazing Eternal games.

In AE's defence, they were launching a game into the hero-shooter market when Overwatch was at the height of its popularity. Cancelling the game (or putting it on indefinite hiatus, which is what they actually did IIRC) and folding the dev team back into Warframe was probably the smartest move they could have made.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb MystMan:

I used to play pvp games over a decade ago, doom, duke3d and UT all the way up to L4D versus modes. The social aspect just degraded itself over the years. I just want to play a game but for the most part I was simply a spectator to griefing, cheating, verbal abuse, kicking (if the game has that feature), lobbies shutting down, ragequitting, etc etc.
After the umpteenth angry Russian and screaming kids, I just couldn't be bothered anymore and moved away from it all. If I wanted to experience random people's social breakdown, I'd watch sleazy talkshows.

that bothers me extremely.
and that's what i like about warframe. There are a lot of good contributions here and you can even talk in English / German etc. in the game. without this "roflez lulz" and who knows what else ... that is the language of the border dubious from insane asylum.
wow i haven't played for many years. Even back then, quests were made for small children: extremely easy and super dumb. the same in other areas. the result was more players of extremely poor "quality". and this is exactly what pulls nivau down in the game! i couldn't even sit in teamspeak with others because i was afraid that i would be infected with stupidity there. and they were all people over 40.
in overwatch is the same. I don't even read chat there. because there are always people who insult their own team and are constantly verbally abusing them. and these people supposedly want to win somehow? yes ... insane asylum. no joke.

but that's a big topic and you can see that logic is completely missing in new movies. on youtube there are more than enough reviews of such "masterpieces" to make you laugh to death.

[Thando]

9 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

You realize that weapons and warframes ALREADY have different balance in Conclave and PvE, right?

Thank you for proving my point. 😏

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, YazMatazO said:

Actually... for all the talk about toxicity in Warframe, from my experience in the Conclave I can safely say that the people that actually play WF's pvp are not toxic at all. They enjoy it. And don't even bring that stuff that if you just take the Ignis you win because once you enter the higher tiers you will repeatedly be dog-piled on for using weapons like that. It's the pve community that I've repeatedly observed being toxic AF and the people that play pvp, as few as those might be, are quite chill in comparison. 

It is like that because those that play it are enthusiasts. Add a more gamewide carrot and it will turn into a toxic dump.

WoW PvP, which was several upon several times bigger had zero toxicity to it when it was still just world PvP with no rewards. As soon as battlegrounds were added with an honor system and rewards the toxicity spiked through the roof within the factions. And I'm fairly sure the same would happen here since it is a pattern that follows PvP no matter the game, and I dont think WF will be shielded from it given how PvE can already be toxic when people bring the wrong frame etc. that happens to slow down a mission.

[(PSN)BuzzZaw82]

If Devs.....here or anywhere else...wants to add PVP so be it...but not all games are meant for it and frankly have been ruined by trying to add it in the mix...fallout 76 is a prime example where they listened to the "We Want PVP in Fallout" crowd, tried to make a hybrid of PvPvE and basically split up the player base and ruined the game but since trying to correct the problem...

Destiny...it has a large following  around PvP but sadly Bungie has made it to where they almost force you in it if you wish to get ahead...and they're constantly Nerfing and Buffing items that either gives and edge to PvP players while leaving PvE ones in the dust...and it too has had a long history with PvP and PvE Players at odds...

There's plenty of PvP games out there with a huge base and meant to play around PvP...Warframe is fine where it is and has the best and user friendly Matchmaking and co-op play around. I'd rather see Digital Extremes commit most of their focus in those areas instead of splitting it up and we end up like Fallout 76 or worse; Destiny.....

[ReaverKane]

7 hours ago, Thando said:

Thank you for proving my point. 😏

What point?

Your point was that PVE could be hurt by PvP balance, which it ISN'T since they have separate balance. So, no, i didn't prove your point.

[Aesthier]

22 hours ago, (XBOX)Dark SalvationX said:

Yeah i grew up on unreal tournament. People just dont understand and never will because they lack skill to enjoy it. 

 

While I can see some truth to your statement it's only partially true and pretty much comes off as entirely dismissive and disingenuous.

You don't have to enjoy something to understand how others might and you also don't have to be skilled in something to enjoy it. Also most skills are learned and improved by further experience and practice. People don't just come out the gate a master at something unless they are a savant and those are very very rare. Sure some people are born better at some things than others but to stay better they still have to improve those natural talents.

 

 

[YazMatazO]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is like that because those that play it are enthusiasts. Add a more gamewide carrot and it will turn into a toxic dump.

WoW PvP, which was several upon several times bigger had zero toxicity to it when it was still just world PvP with no rewards. As soon as battlegrounds were added with an honor system and rewards the toxicity spiked through the roof within the factions. And I'm fairly sure the same would happen here since it is a pattern that follows PvP no matter the game, and I dont think WF will be shielded from it given how PvE can already be toxic when people bring the wrong frame etc. that happens to slow down a mission.

Which means that pvp in WF is perfect. No need to touch it. 

[DrivaMain]

One short answer. Toxicity. If you owned or dominate someone in a PvP game they often lose their maturity and go full meltdown typing "ERM MEH GUD HAXXXXX NO LYFE $^#&^$&^#". The opposite of that they will trash talk you if you got dominated by them by saying Loser, Noob, F^&^&^ along with other insulting words.

Playing PvP games are mentally exhausting. It can ruin your mood. This is coming from someone who played PvP Games Exclusively for almost 7 years before leaving it almost completely.

Let Warframe stay as an "escape" from the madness of PvP games and a stress reliever game.

[sokadon]

nope weapons are too strong can one hit me

if they can equal MR then sure

 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Well with my perspective, it doesn't help the matchmaking is peer-2-peer.

[(PSN)BMWWOW]

Probably already been said, but compared to other PvP games, Warframe PvP is .... JUST.... PLAIN.... LACKING.

The best comparison I can make is to Destiny's PvP.  Before I dropped Destiny (for Warframe happy to say), I started off completely sh*t at Destiny's PvP called "The Crucible."  I was awful.  But after about a year of playing and getting the mechanics down, I got quite good at it and started to enjoy it.

-- The Maps in the Crucible were GREAT!  Strange landscapes and city scapes with a very strong "war zone" feel to it, and plenty of elements you could use to your advantage.  Warframe just drops you into a stylized, DULL, simaris world.  Even Unreal PvP was well known for some compelling MAPS.  Warframe's maps are non-existent.
-- The Matchmaking was Very Good in the Crucible.  Well balanced teams even amongst complete strangers.
-- The rewards were all 100% Relevant to the PvE.  Anything you got in PvP could and would enhance your PvE experience.  Warframe has too many rewards that only serve to enhance your PvP.
-- You played THE SAME CHARACTER - no special PvP build required.  Warframe makes it so you need a completely separate PvP build - very annoying.

So basically Warframe's PvP just does not measure up to Allllll the MANY great PvP experiences from other games.  Years ago someone described Warframe PvP as "an afterthought" and it still feels like that.