We really need a auction house for non-riven items.

[PublikDomain]

39 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

If youre selling a mesa prime set right now youre only competing with anyone else online, using trade chat, at any given time. An auction house would force you to compete with every other seller who has the same set offline or not, with no time investment required.

This is no different than what happens now. If I want to sell a set, I'm competing with the active sellers on warframe.market. If I post WTS in trade chat with a price that's higher than that market then I won't get any hits.

39 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

external tools do not compare to an ingame "set it and leave it" auction house. 

You're making the assumption that we'd get that kind of auction house. If I haven't been clear then that's on me, I'm specifically talking about getting the same functionality as existing services, just ingame. There would be no difference between that and what we have now, aside from more people being able to access the market. Keeping the market closed only benefits the people that are profiting off of it being that way.

39 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

no, we wouldnt. Because "supply and demand" exists and youd be blowing up the supply so hard, it would actually be *harder* to make plat outside of buying it or riven trading. 

You're also assuming that demand won't increase as well. If there are more people on the market, then there will be more sellers and more buyers. Especially for consumable items like Relics, Rivens, Ayatans, or even Prime parts to exchange for Ducats. Since you brought up Mesa Prime, even with warframe.market making trade easier and providing more information the price of a Mesa Prime set has gone up over the past 90 days by about 20p. The idea that items would only get cheaper if trade were improved is baseless.

39 minutes ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

the only people who would be pleased are people who make plat by selling rivens or spend money on this game. Their plat would go farther. People who spend little to no money on this game would be screwed.

The only push-back I see against improving ingame trade is from people who have something to lose. And the only people who have something to lose are the ones that like trade the way it is now: slow and full of uninformed buyers and sellers. Either you're for making trade more accessible, or you want to keep it where it is.

ETA: Can you give me one reason why trade should be kept the way it is now that isn't from a feeling of protectionism?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

This is no different than what happens now. If I want to sell a set, I'm competing with the active sellers on warframe.market. If I post WTS in trade chat with a price that's higher than that market then I won't get any hits.

Sorry mate but it's different. It looks to me like right now only a small percentage of people are on wfmarket as sellers. The fact that people are always having to point others in the direction of warframe.market suggests that most people either aren't aware that it exists, or don't think to use it. 

Making it easy, by putting it in game, will inevitably drastically increase the number of concurrent sellers. 

Even if what you want is only for people who are currently online, the "race to zero" issue still exists, and with more sellers advertising, the prices will drop faster. I can typically buy stuff at less than warframe.market prices, by posting a "WTB" with a price set lower than the market, which is itself typically lower than the price asked for in chat. What happens when people who just don't feel like spamming the chat, start listing their items? Literally everything other than the brand new, or extremely rare items, sell for prime junk prices. 

That's not an improvement for anyone concerned, as destroying the in game economy, hurts ALL of us. 

 

The only items that won't be hurt by an auction house system, is rivens, so even very concept of this thread shows that the people asking for auction houses, don't know a blasted thing about in the game economy. 

 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Hooligantuan said:

I'd rather we be able to just list a few things to a searchable Player Market - say one thing per 5 Mastery Rank levels - where we can just set a price and let it hang out until we get a buyer or relist.

Know how many trades you are going to get like that? None. Because the instant you post an item for 20p, someone else will list it for 19p to cut you out of a trade. If you relist at 19 to get you on an even footing, they'll put it at 18.

If you don't think that will happen, ask yourself why "prime junk" exists. 

[Zeclem]

12 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I'm saying there's no reason they shouldn't add accessibility and QoL features when those features already exist and are broadly used. A common dismissal of improving the game is that the improvement would be bad for some reason.

to do what warframe.market is doing, de either needs to make it from scratch or have to go through the legal paperwork to let it directly be linked in the game. both of which is unnecessary when you can do it with two button presses already. 

12 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

 

For example, a common argument against improving the Riven system is that everyone would unveil good Rivens, and maybe there's some merit to that. But in the case of improvements to things like trade or controls, players have already improved these things externally, so that argument is baseless. Adding an ingame auction house won't blow up tHe EcOnOmY because an auction house already exists and already sees broad use, and lo and behold tHe EcOnOmY is still ticking along unphased. There's no reason not to add an auction house aside from the development cost, and that's not much of an argument either when DE is already happy to waste development time on trivial things like K-Drives. If the question is "should DE spend time and resources improving the user experience" then the answer is obviously "yes".

adding an ingame auction house like its commonly propsed WILL destroy the economy because there will be huge amounts of sellers and will start botting problems that plagues every single f2p mmo that allows completely free usage of trade broker. and for warframe it would be extra devastating because we trade in the premium currency. warframe.market prevents botting because you have to interact with players, which is extremely difficult to bot for. 

so yeah, there are plenty of arguments to keep the system as is. just because you dont wanna consider them does not make them "baseless". 

[Uan91]

On 2020-12-09 at 5:02 AM, Scyris said:

I say this because even using warframe market I am having a hell of a time ever getting anyone to reply when I want to buy something, and to be honest its grating on my nerves. Why is there not a auction house-like thing in game for the non-riven mods and relic stuff? It's sorely needed imo.

WE really need to ban the word WE from the first post of each topic. 

 

[Aldain]

...I still think making a trade chat solely for Riven mods would solve the problem, but what do I know?

[Zeclem]

11 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

RuneScape

has a bot problem.

11 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

and path of exile.

has a bot problem.

[TheGuyver]

8 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

ETA: Can you give me one reason why trade should be kept the way it is now that isn't from a feeling of protectionism?

1. People don't understand the economy, and would undercut each other into oblivion to nickel and dime any plat they can get and de-value the currency. 
2. DE allowing people to do that and drive the prices down is literally financial suicide due to how most F2P games are kept afloat by their premium currency. 

So besides people wanting to be lazy and avoid interacting with other people in an online game, can YOU give us a reason why you would want DE to shoot themselves in the foot by adding in an auction system? The last guy I replied to about this didn't want to try me, maybe you want to take a crack at it. 

[ChaoticEdge]

From all the fugging hell dido problem ppl, THE DANG QUESTION IS "Had The Freaking Marketing Place Had Gone Haywired?"  If not ya need stop complaining about it but if it is gone to animal's pile of dropping then yes for it should of been "REPORTED" the marketing gone haywired but it isn't necessary to enforce a small thing

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

has a bot problem.

has a bot problem.

It is true they all had bot problem including PSO2 and few other games "Bot Problem".  As again dealing with bots spamming away their issues here and there for these bots are still easily caught for observing them simple as reporting but some other game's moderator "letted it slide" because well they either were bribe keep things quite or they are stupid not knowing what is going on (no offense the other moderator in the other games).

This game basically is hard to have auto bots in this game due of "changes" and anti-cheat system so basically bots had hard time getting reward and they are limited for good measure to be an "aim bot" for the system would of detect small cheat and ban you straight up for thous cheater are trying figure out how to make the botting system work in warframe but end up failing because due of "they don't have a player's smart of wits and it is fast moving rear game".  The only thing they can do is basically is spam in the chat that is all but they will be ban faster again as speed of light for they did a temp do such.

In other words, this game has very secured anti-boting system in this game but then again DE did made thous specters and they can be instance boting for players which in survival missions just adding the goods like peeling the banana's skin as you take your time eating it then do the wiggle wiggle (just move the control a and d that is all you need to do and then go afk for good 3 min and let your minion do your dirty work) on your control so basically DE made their own trap and rid of players actually making boting account as they just use specters to do their work.  So basically pretty much making a bot account is absolutely meaningless

 

 

[Leyvonne]

On 2020-12-09 at 7:37 AM, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Stop being antisocial instead 

Where is the social part in sending a copy-paste message, getting an invite, trading and then saying "ty" or "tft"? Because that is my trading experience most of the time. To me that is just as social as saying the sort of mandatory "thanks, bye" at the grocery store.

[PublikDomain]

4 hours ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Making it easy, by putting it in game, will inevitably drastically increase the number of concurrent sellers...

... and buyers. People who don't currently engage in trade at all because of the barrier to entry would be able to engage, which includes both selling and buying. If you want to claim that supply will increase, then you can't pretend that demand won't increase as well.

And the idea that it'd be a race to the bottom is unrealistic I think. The Mesa Prime set I gave as an example has gone up in value regardless, and goods like Relics/Ayatans/Rivens are in constant demand. Even junk Prime parts have a consistent value backed by ducats. Systems are already in place to prevent a race to the bottom, and they must work or we'd already be at the bottom.

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

adding an ingame auction house like its commonly propsed...

Which I though I was clear wasn't what I was talking about... I'm talking about taking the existing tools already available outside the game and putting them inside the game. A system like what warframe.market or riven.market provides, just without having to go through a third party outside the game. Which you seem to agree wouldn't be a problem, because "warframe.market prevents botting because you have to interact with players, which is extremely difficult to bot for."

So this is a non-issue.

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

to do what warframe.market is doing, de either needs to make it from scratch

And yes, DE would need to do work to improve the game. Spending development time on things that improve the game sounds pretty obviously worthwhile to me? Same with improving the Riven system, the Codex, controls, etc.

52 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

1. People don't understand the economy, and would undercut each other into oblivion to nickel and dime any plat they can get and de-value the currency. 
2. DE allowing people to do that and drive the prices down is literally financial suicide due to how most F2P games are kept afloat by their premium currency. 

Aren't both of those protectionist reasonings? You want the trade system left in the stone ages because it being a terrible system protects you financially?

[TheGuyver]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

 

Aren't both of those protectionist reasonings? You want the trade system left in the stone ages because it being a terrible system protects you financially?

It doesn't protect me financially, I can buy platinum whenever I want and after playing for seven years I have thousands of plat worth of items to sell. I'm speaking in terms of the company hurting itself by adding in an auction house system. They would de-value their premium currency to the point that nobody would buy it and people like me would still be loaded and running the markets.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

32 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

... and buyers. People who don't currently engage in trade at all because of the barrier to entry would be able to engage, which includes both selling and buying. If you want to claim that supply will increase, then you can't pretend that demand won't increase as well.

Of for freak sake. Buyers won't increase significantly, because there's already an oversupply, a glut, for most items. 

Anyone with an item can offer something for sale, buyers need to meet several criteria to be a buyer. Generally they must:

1) not already own the item

2) want to own the item 

3) have enough plat to buy the item 

4) agree to pay the seller's price for the item

Take a good look at those. 

Now, I'm going to go ahead and speed this conversation along, you'll say "but Guz, if the prices fall won't that increase demand among those who have limited plat because they can now afford it?" 

I'll respond "only for a very short while, and then every single one of them will be a seller for that item in the future, further increasing supply. This inevitably happens anyway but you are accelerating the crash in prices drastically. That's bad."

Then you'll think about it, and say" but then future Tenno will have an advantage because of the even lower prices won't they?" This is because you obviously don't grasp the concept yet. 

Then I'll reply, "nope, because since most players are f2p, they have to sell items to get the plat to buy items. Since you crashed the economy, they'll be stuck spending more time, having to make more sales, to make enough plat to buy anything. Odds are that many will just give up on the game, and that's a bad thing because there went your potential customers. Again that's bad."

Then you'll say something silly like, "but if everything costs less, they won't need to get as much plat, right?" But even as you say that you're going to be doubting that it's a valid point since none of your points thusfar have been worth writing. 

And I'll respond, "you forgot that we need to buy stuff like slots, didn't you?" 

And you'll respond with the ever popular, "yeah well that's just your opinion man," but that's going to sound hollow even to you. 

And I'll respond, "seriously, this is basic economics, how do you not grasp these concepts, go to a library and borrow a copy of a high school economics textbook." 

 

Quote

And the idea that it'd be a race to the bottom is unrealistic I think. The Mesa Prime set I gave as an example has gone up in value regardless, and goods like Relics/Ayatans/Rivens are in constant demand. Even junk Prime parts have a consistent value backed by ducats. Systems are already in place to prevent a race to the bottom, and they must work or we'd already be at the bottom.

"Tragedy of the Commons." You're welcome in advance. And here's a hint, when you look at prime junk prices, you are pretty close to the bottom of the barrel. 

Quote

Which I though I was clear wasn't what I was talking about... I'm talking about taking the existing tools already available outside the game and putting them inside the game. A system like what warframe.market or riven.market provides, just without having to go through a third party outside the game. Which you seem to agree wouldn't be a problem, because "warframe.market prevents botting because you have to interact with players, which is extremely difficult to bot for."

So this is a non-issue.

Doesn't matter. Because not everyone who plays is listing on warframe.market. But every who plays, is in the game. 

Again, seriously, think. 

Quote

Aren't both of those protectionist reasonings? You want the trade system left in the stone ages because it being a terrible system protects you financially?

I can't speak for them, but I don't make a significant amount of plat from sales. I give away most of the items I trade, because I don't need the plat. So the current system doesn't benefit me "financially" (lol if you actually think that in game plat is something that you can benefit from financially). 

And yet here I am opposed to the ridiculous, and dangerous suggestions that you want to see implemented. 

Is the current system ideal? No.

Is what you suggest significantly worse? Yes. 

So why tf would anyone with more than half a brain support it? I suspect because of ignorance and greed. 

[PublikDomain]

19 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

I'm speaking in terms of the company hurting itself by adding in an auction house system. They would de-value their premium currency to the point that nobody would buy it and people like me would still be loaded and running the markets.

Wouldn't that increase the amount of plat being purchased from DE? At least, that's usually how I see this argument used. DE directly controls the real money price of plat as well as the purchasing power of plat for premium goods and services. If making trade easier actually did lead to a "race to the bottom" then it'd make earning plat through only ingame means harder to do, raising the relative price of premium items and the purchasing power of plat/PAs bought direct from DE. Not that I think this would actually happen, since ingame mechanics like Baro and the Vault already keep this in check.

[PublikDomain]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Take a good look at those. 

And how does any of that change with in an improved trade system?

5 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

And here's a hint, when you look at prime junk prices, you are pretty close to the bottom of the barrel. 

So what would change?

6 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Is what you suggest significantly worse? Yes. 

What I suggest is literally what we already have, lol. The only difference is that it's available in the game and not in your browser. Hit Shift + Tab and use Steam's overlay browser and it's identical to what should already be ingame.

[kwlingo]

Probably not gonna happen because DE makes so much money on people who buy rivens with real $$$ for plat

[Zeclem]

2 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

It is true they all had bot problem including PSO2 and few other games "Bot Problem".  As again dealing with bots spamming away their issues here and there for these bots are still easily caught for observing them simple as reporting but some other game's moderator "letted it slide" because well they either were bribe keep things quite or they are stupid not knowing what is going on (no offense the other moderator in the other games).

This game basically is hard to have auto bots in this game due of "changes" and anti-cheat system so basically bots had hard time getting reward and they are limited for good measure to be an "aim bot" for the system would of detect small cheat and ban you straight up for thous cheater are trying figure out how to make the botting system work in warframe but end up failing because due of "they don't have a player's smart of wits and it is fast moving rear game".  The only thing they can do is basically is spam in the chat that is all but they will be ban faster again as speed of light for they did a temp do such.

In other words, this game has very secured anti-boting system in this game but then again DE did made thous specters and they can be instance boting for players which in survival missions just adding the goods like peeling the banana's skin as you take your time eating it then do the wiggle wiggle (just move the control a and d that is all you need to do and then go afk for good 3 min and let your minion do your dirty work) on your control so basically DE made their own trap and rid of players actually making boting account as they just use specters to do their work.  So basically pretty much making a bot account is absolutely meaningless

you can bot like half of the things in this game. only reason its not bot infested is because the trading system currently in place does not allow it to be profitable. 

the "anti cheat" systems existed in a wide variety of such games and they work in absolutely none of them.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And how does any of that change with in an improved trade system?

So what would change?

What I suggest is literally what we already have, lol. The only difference is that it's available in the game and not in your browser. Hit Shift + Tab and use Steam's overlay browser and it's identical to what should already be ingame.

Hmmm okay I'll try that shift tab thing... Wait... Which button is shift and which is tab? I can't find them on my controller. Wait did you not realise that not everyone who plays warframe is on a PC? 

Haven't you noticed that some of us have prefixes in front of our names? Or did you notice and just not grasp the significance? Which is it, being oblivious in general, or just not being able to figure out the obvious? 

Again seriously try to keep up:

24 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Doesn't matter. Because not everyone who plays is listing on warframe.market. But every who plays, is in the game. 

Again, seriously, think. 

This time, actually think. 

Now, please stop embarrassing yourself. 

[EdinaMonsoon]

i just wanna be able to sell my spare smoke emphs

or at least have credit sell prices boosted for rare drops

[PublikDomain]

Just now, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Hmmm okay I'll try that shift tab thing... Wait... Which button is shift and which is tab? I can't find them on my controller.

Then you should be thrilled about the prospects of having more than a gamepad and a chat box to do trade on console, no?

1 minute ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Now, please stop embarrassing yourself. 

🤔

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

39 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Then you should be thrilled about the prospects of having more than a gamepad and a chat box to do trade on console, no?

🤔

No. Because inevitably I would be using the controller anyway. And unlike some people, I understand how trade works, set fair prices when I'm trading, and make my trades quickly. If you have problems doing those, with the advantages of a keyboard, that suggests that YOU are doing something wrong. 

[ChaoticEdge]

46 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

you can bot like half of the things in this game. only reason its not bot infested is because the trading system currently in place does not allow it to be profitable. 

the "anti cheat" systems existed in a wide variety of such games and they work in absolutely none of them.

remember this the anti-cheat system only work certain part among thous games for every cheater always look for loop holes.  As again that is also correct the trading system make sure of that in here in warframe that is why we can't allow some sort boting developed and start farming the hell out of it but then again come think about it if I can recall that someone said something about "RS" for the marketing auction there is terrible but sure u get money but it doesn't mean that the players don't know where they are putting their money at and if we use that as example it will blow up warframe's marketing and throwing it into the dark ages again.

Basically I am glade DE didn't plain to do such a thing copying RS how they do their "Grand exchange" for this would of melt the dang game already in the 1st place.

[(PSN)thowed]

Because people like me would list everything at 1p because I don't sell things currently and it would be easy.  Instead of all my stuff collecting dust, I'd dump it on the auction house because "something is better than nothing".  I'm certainly not gonna put the effort to sell stuff in the current system because I never have a platinum problem and I don't wanna sit in trade chat (WF market isn't that big on Playstation).  This is why it'll never happen.  I'm good either way.

[PublikDomain]

40 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

No. Because inevitably I would be using the controller anyway. And unlike some people, I understand how trade works, set fair prices when I'm trading, and make my trades quickly. If you have problems doing those, with the advantages of a keyboard, that suggests that YOU are doing something wrong. 

I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that I do anything different? I also engage in trade, set fair prices, and make transactions quickly. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with improving the trading system? The trade system is serviceable, but it's not very good. It sounds like you agree...

1 hour ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Is the current system ideal? No.

So it seems obvious to me that it should be improved. External trade sites already provide a tested model for how it could work, so DE should implement something similar. To want otherwise would be to want to maintain the status quo, which is like you yourself say a system which isn't ideal.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

10 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

So it seems obvious to me that it should be improved.

You don't improve something by making Bad changes. 

You are suggesting and supporting making BAD changes. 

Stop doing that. 

 

In order to stop doing that, find yourself a basic economics textbook, and start at the beginning. Then think about what you're reading, and make sure you understand it all. Then look back at what you wrote, and what multiple people responded to this thread and others like it. Then say 'oh I get it now'.