Is this truly the content we all wanted?

[JackHargreav]

For me Deimos feels the most end game-ish.

Lot of the stuff uses old resources so It's not just an isolated grind.

And there are some easy ways to farm for stuff. I mined a few times and occasionally I would hunt down an animal that was wondering around. But that's it really. I usually don't even go fishing. Hell I haven't even mined anything. 

The amount of tokens you need from son and daughter is so bloody low, i fail to see how that is an issue for anyone.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

9 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Reputation with Deimos is not fully tied to Fishing and Hunting, you can farm your reputation with Mother's Bounties then if you have a need for some component that comes from Fishing or Hunting, you can buy them for plat just as you do with the rest of the game. [DE] added that Option to Deimos.

Because to you having "Beta" on the game's tag means its not worth investing in? If so thats a really dumb way of thinking. If it wasnt for the Founders program the game wouldnt have made it to December 2013 and if it wasnt for the thousands that still spend on it, you wouldnt have content to experience.
I wonder if [DE] removed the game from Beta today if you would start spending money or complaining the launched an unfinished game?

Hey, if you want to spend money on a game where you are the testers, and you pay for the right to test it for bugs, that is your business. Dumb indeed...

[GEN-Son_17]

9 hours ago, XRosenkreuz said:

Imagine; we've actually reached the point wherein the complaint being made is that the game isn't a massive cash grab, and there's parts of it you actually have to play to access.

What a time to be alive.

I was thinking the same thing! Leave it to Warframe to have every single complaint and counter complaint possible. 

"There's too much of too much and not enough and there's not enough of not enough and too much."

[Zimzala]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Yggranya said:

Hey, if you want to spend money on a game where you are the testers, and you pay for the right to test it for bugs, that is your business. Dumb indeed...

Hey, if you want to misconstrue what others say to forward your closeminded little agenda of being terrified of the world, that's your Business. Dumb indeed...

[Kaggelos]

Personally I do those side activities inbetween intense mission types. Much like in storytelling, and even game design (iirc), the tension and pacing need to be varied and balanced.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

9 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Hey, if you want to misconstrue what others say to forward your closeminded little agenda of being terrified of the world, that's your Business. Dumb indeed...

You are free to spend your money as you please, but you get what you pay for. We have all seen the way DE works, which means that you obviously don't have a problem with it. I don't see why the way i use my money is anyone elses problem, but i guess the founders felt called out by it. *shrug*

[killerJoke66]

'is this the content we all truly wanted ' well .. eh no

[vegetosayajin]

On 2020-12-09 at 7:20 PM, -Trendy- said:

The only catch is that in grinding for it... i have to fish? and hunt for animals? This is not pew pew boom boom splat. 

idd it's not, I hated it also, but I did it because I wanted to go back to "pew pew boom boom splat" with new things...that's why it's a grind, because it's unpleasant, it's work...
I still hate it, but I don't have to do it anymore, it took some hours of my time but now I have even more options for my arsenal.
 

On 2020-12-09 at 7:20 PM, -Trendy- said:

Also if i want to hit mr30 anytime in my life I would need to grind these fishing/hunting/archwing missions that are not fun so I can have said weapons.

You don't have to. You really need only mr16.
But if you want to complete everything for the sake of it...grind/work it is. 

On 2020-12-09 at 7:20 PM, -Trendy- said:

Does anyone else wish that all the content was just pew pew boom boom splat? 

Yes, that's why I play at all, I suffer trough the terrible, horrible, disgusting grinds just to have my "pew pew boom boom splat" at max efficiency. ^^

[Guiver909]

On 2020-12-09 at 5:20 PM, -Trendy- said:

 

Does anyone else wish that all the content was just pew pew boom boom splat? 

 

I sure as hell don't play warframe to fish.Does anybody?

[(PSN)MYKK678]

On 2020-12-09 at 6:18 PM, -Trendy- said:

That's actually really well said. I guess my complaint would be... can we make boom boom splat resource gathering be on par with fishing/mining? LOL or would that trivialize the resource for the intended content

Normally i wouldn't recommend this as anyones 1st option but it may suit in this circumstance.

Most-if-not-all resources you gain from Fishing you can just Buy with Platinum. If you don't enjoy Fishing but want a Helminth, this would be your only other option. If the resource you need isn't on the list, it rotates every 24hrs.

[BahamutKaiser]

Am I missing something? Or are warframes, archwings, and resources not available for plat?

If your content to buy your way through the game as you claim, than you can buy frames from the market and feed them to Helminth, buy Khora instead of struggling through drop tables, buy archwings. 

I don't think that's a rational way to acquire everything, because buying your way through the whole game will not only cost more than a full time job, but also skip all of the content in the game. Real "investors" know that most of the gameplay in warframe is repeating a limited variation of content for extended periods of time to acquire stuff. Finding a way to get comfortable grinding is a little bit difficult, but if you really want a game to just enjoy without staring down the grind or pay gates, you could just get some new games. Don't blow a fortune on skipping Warframe gameplay rather than simply buying a ton of other games. 

[Iccotak]

 

[Iccotak]

I've seen people here knock on Destiny for being only "pew pew boom boom splat", saying that Warframe tries new things.

My counterpoint being that Destiny plays to its strengths and what the core concept of the game is. The game does try new activities but they all were combat related and serve the core concept of being a "Magical Space Knight Looter Shooter". And it works, the focus on shooting in polished content is successful and is the major draw for people.

Sure, Destiny has resource gathering but they are not mini-games. This seems to be the core issue that many people have with fishing, hunting, mining, etc in Warframe - more resource gathering mini-games along with having to do it in order to really get the goal with max efficiency, or use plat.

People on this thread say "You can't please everyone" as a defense - but what they seem to miss is that Warframe is trying to do just that with all these mini-game features and content islands instead of focusing on the core gameplay that launched its success - "Magical Space Ninja Action Shooter".

Open worlds are fun but could work better if they are designed around the parkour system. Deimos shows that not evey open world has to be open plains. Again play to the strengths of the game, have an open world with vertical design that encourages players to better their movement skills. Also I'd recommend more areas on the map that are exclusively unlocked by Operators and/or can only be reached by Archwing.

Railjack was marketed as the game mode that wouldn't be an island, that it would connect various isolated areas in the game, and while that may still be on the way (and has massive potential) it should have launched that way instead of the unpolished & incomplete state that it was in. To clarify, I like Railjack because it brings focus back to the core gameplay, but it still needs a lot of work.

Playable Necramechs honestly feel really out of place, cool bosses and like new orokin enemy, but they feel like an activity from a separate game akin to Warhammer 40k. That's what the major issue with archwing was which is why nobody played it and DE are finally replacing it with Railjack.

[EDIT: Added content in post]

[MouadSaqui]

I mean nothing personal, but your kind of players are the reason we don't have a real warframe update, to the core game itself, the story if left on a cliffhanger, Go ahead a shower DE with your money for doing minimal efforts....

[BahamutKaiser]

20 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

I've seen people here knock on Destiny for being only "pew pew boom boom splat", saying that Warframe tries new things.

My counterpoint being that Destiny plays to its strengths and what the core concept of the game is. The game does try new activities but they all were combat related and serve the core concept of being a "Magical Space Knight Looter Shooter". And it works, the focus on shooting in polished content is successful and is the major draw for people.

Sure, Destiny has resource gathering but they are not mini-games. This seems to be the core issue that many people have with fishing, hunting, mining, etc in Warframe - more resource gathering mini-games along with having to do it in order to really get the goal with max efficiency, or use plat.

People on this thread say "You can't please everyone" as a defense - but what they seem to miss is that Warframe is trying to do just that with all these mini-game features and content islands instead of focusing on the core gameplay that launched its success - "Magical Space Ninja Action Shooter".

Open worlds are fun but could work better if they are designed around the parkour system. Deimos shows that not evey open world has to be open plains. Again play to the strengths of the game, have an open world with vertical design that encourages players to better their movement skills. Also I'd recommend more areas on the map that are exclusively unlocked by Operators and/or can only be reached by Archwing.

Railjack was marketed as the game mode that wouldn't be an island, that it would connect various isolated areas in the game, and while that may still be on the way (and has massive potential) it should have launched that way instead of the unpolished & incomplete state that it was in. To clarify, I like Railjack because it brings focus back to the core gameplay, but it still needs a lot of work.

Playable Necramechs honestly feel really out of place, cool bosses and like new orokin enemy, but they feel like an activity from a separate game akin to Warhammer 40k. That's what the major issue with archwing was which is why nobody played it and DE are finally replacing it with Railjack.

[EDIT: Added content in post]

Destiny is what? Half the age of Warframe? And they followed it with a sequel instead of continuing indefinitely. If they continue to grow Destiny, or continue releasing sequels, chances are, it will expand into broader content exactly the same, if it even lasts. 

[Iccotak]

1 minute ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Destiny is what? Half the age of Warframe? And they followed it with a sequel instead of continuing indefinitely.

File size & Activision contract. The second game does not make this mistake -  D2 will continue to get expansions for years to come, but content will be cycled throughout a three year cycle in a vault in order to not explode the file size and help manage the bugs.

3 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

If they continue to grow Destiny, or continue releasing sequels, chances are, it will expand into broader content exactly the same, if it even lasts. 

Where is you evidence to back that claim? Destiny, in the entirety of the franchise, doesn't do mini-games that have completely different gameplay. Literally all activities are shooting and looting - they even stopped Sparrow Racing because it was such a small minority that played it that it wasn't worth investing resources into.

Also the game is hardly on the verge of dying. It has very healthy number at this point and regularly exceeds Warframe numbers in the Top 10 of steam charts

[Loza03]

40 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

I've seen people here knock on Destiny for being only "pew pew boom boom splat", saying that Warframe tries new things.

My counterpoint being that Destiny plays to its strengths and what the core concept of the game is. The game does try new activities but they all were combat related and serve the core concept of being a "Magical Space Knight Looter Shooter". And it works, the focus on shooting in polished content is successful and is the major draw for people.

Sure, Destiny has resource gathering but they are not mini-games. This seems to be the core issue that many people have with fishing, hunting, mining, etc in Warframe - more resource gathering mini-games along with having to do it in order to really get the goal with max efficiency, or use plat.

People on this thread say "You can't please everyone" as a defense - but what they seem to miss is that Warframe is trying to do just that with all these mini-game features and content islands instead of focusing on the core gameplay that launched its success - "Magical Space Ninja Action Shooter".

Open worlds are fun but could work better if they are designed around the parkour system. Deimos shows that not evey open world has to be open plains. Again play to the strengths of the game, have an open world with vertical design that encourages players to better their movement skills. Also I'd recommend more areas on the map that are exclusively unlocked by Operators and/or can only be reached by Archwing.

Railjack was marketed as the game mode that wouldn't be an island, that it would connect various isolated areas in the game, and while that may still be on the way (and has massive potential) it should have launched that way instead of the unpolished & incomplete state that it was in. To clarify, I like Railjack because it brings focus back to the core gameplay, but it still needs a lot of work.

Playable Necramechs honestly feel really out of place, cool bosses and like new orokin enemy, but they feel like an activity from a separate game akin to Warhammer 40k. That's what the major issue with archwing was which is why nobody played it and DE are finally replacing it with Railjack.

[EDIT: Added content in post]

2/3rds of recent content hasn't had anything to do with fancy mini games or secondary mechanics. Even Railjack has you spend a good chunk of time being a space ninja, and the open setting doesn't do that much to change that the core loop of bounties (which is the vast majority of the open worlds, let's not kid ourselves) is using Warframes. The Steel Path is Warframe the dungeon crawler, Arbitrations are too. Jovian Concord and Deadlock Protocol were exclusively devoted to the core loops. Yet the impact of these sections of gameplay are undersold in comparison with the diversions. Nightwave and Kuva Liches were even outright criticised for just being 'go back to older content', and not pushing the envelope more, even when that content was 100% just the core 'looter shooter space ninja' content. And, no, it wasn't just the grind - there was plenty of complaints about lack of anything 'new' specifically as well.

 

The game's issue is that those core mechanics have become broken over time, and people - whether consciously aware of it or not - have noticed. The core ruleset that lays the foundations has become worn. That is what needs addressing. The new stuff feels off because it's playing by different rules, but frankly, even the core loop has at least two rulebooks that don't interact with each other.

[Iccotak]

5 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

2/3rds of recent content hasn't had anything to do with fancy mini games or secondary mechanics. Even Railjack has you spend a good chunk of time being a space ninja, and the open setting doesn't do that much to change that the core loop of bounties (which is the vast majority of the open worlds, let's not kid ourselves) is using Warframes. The Steel Path is Warframe the dungeon crawler, Arbitrations are too. Jovian Concord and Deadlock Protocol were exclusively devoted to the core loops. Yet the impact of these sections of gameplay are undersold in comparison with the diversions. Nightwave and Kuva Liches were even outright criticised for just being 'go back to older content', and not pushing the envelope more, even when that content was 100% just the core 'looter shooter space ninja' content. And, no, it wasn't just the grind - there was plenty of complaints about lack of anything 'new' specifically as well.

 

The game's issue is that those core mechanics have become broken over time, and people - whether consciously aware of it or not - have noticed. The core ruleset that lays the foundations has become worn. That is what needs addressing. The new stuff feels off because it's playing by different rules, but frankly, even the core loop has at least two rulebooks that don't interact with each other.

This goes back to the extreme lack of polish with new content & features that came with the major updates like Railjack and Kuva Liches. A lack of polish and cohesiveness, or coherence, is noticeable and often makes things feel like they were just mashed together. Hence feeling like some content plays by different rules

This goes back to the criticism that Steven Sinclair agreed with from Total Biscuit which to paraphrase is, "Warframe feels like a castle built on the ruins of a castle which is also built on the ruins of a castle."

I think it is also fair that many people are tired of the Warframe being in the state of incomplete it has been for so long (even with all the additions they've made) while adding unfinished features that don't get revisited for years.
My unpopular opinion being that I think DE, along with their parent company, should halt the updates and use what is there to just make a solid base game at this point. Make the solid foundation that can receive content down the line. Because the one step forward, two steps back is getting old fast - and it shows.

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

This goes back to the extreme lack of polish with new content & features that came with the major updates like Railjack and Kuva Liches. A lack of polish and cohesiveness, or coherence, is noticeable and often makes things feel like they were just mashed together. Hence feeling like some content plays by different rules

This goes back to the criticism that Steven Sinclair agreed with from Total Biscuit which to paraphrase is, "Warframe feels like a castle built on the ruins of a castle which is also built on the ruins of a castle."

I think it is also fair that many people are tired of the Warframe being in the state of incomplete it has been for so long (even with all the additions they've made) while adding unfinished features that don't get revisited for years.
My unpopular opinion being that I think DE, along with their parent company, should halt the updates and use what is there to just make a solid base game at this point. Make the solid foundation that can receive content down the line. Because the one step forward, two steps back is getting old fast - and it shows.

Honestly? I'm not actually sure Warframe is actually all that incomplete. Ruins make surprisingly good foundations - for a time, the tallest building in the world was built on its own ruins, because the bits that remained couldn't be knocked down for love nor money. Culling the mistakes of the past and building on what worked is how innovation gets done. No, what I think is causing the issue is that we're still in those ruins. They've not been repaired, brought up to code, but we still have to pass through them or sit in them when we do new stuff. And anything that's built on or attached to them's going to suffer because of it. Doesn't matter how insulated the new parts are if the windows in the older wings are single-glazed and the frames are drafty. And it doesn't matter how finely-tuned you make your enemies or ability balance if we can dump 1 billion energy and spam the strongest powers forever and a day.

The game needs some good, solid balancing passes focused on getting everything playing by the same rules, as it were. Half the game doesn't scale and half of it does, except for some little exceptions, which don't scale but also don't stick to one strength value either but instead flip-flop around mid mission.

I'm talking making energy something more engaging to play around rather than being either RNG or 'push button to regenerate resources'; making armour and not-armoured enemies not be in different continents of durability so the damage system can actually be something sensible, and deciding whether or not the game's built around scaling so we stop getting the worst of both worlds. Either make Players scale properly so we can't just smash old content and find a way to deal with the issues where progression feels insubstantial, or make enemies not scale and try to weather the storms from upset endurance players and the continued backlash of passive sunsetting due to power creep. Because we kind of get both at the same time right now, and none of the benefits of these systems eithers.

[killerJoke66]

8 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Culling the mistakes of the past and building on what worked is how innovation gets done. No, what I think is causing the issue is that we're still in those ruins.

now that makes sense 😆

[BahamutKaiser]

On 2020-12-11 at 6:25 AM, Iccotak said:

File size & Activision contract. The second game does not make this mistake -  D2 will continue to get expansions for years to come, but content will be cycled throughout a three year cycle in a vault in order to not explode the file size and help manage the bugs.

Where is you evidence to back that claim? Destiny, in the entirety of the franchise, doesn't do mini-games that have completely different gameplay. Literally all activities are shooting and looting - they even stopped Sparrow Racing because it was such a small minority that played it that it wasn't worth investing resources into.

Also the game is hardly on the verge of dying. It has very healthy number at this point and regularly exceeds Warframe numbers in the Top 10 of steam charts

That's a pretty weak showing for a game that's significantly younger. Despite engagement slaves excluding and shelving diverse content in many games, the majority of acclaimed games feature them heavily to break up monotony. Your making a very poor argument for its quality. 

[Venus-Venera]

Am 11.12.2020 um 16:03 schrieb Iccotak:

This goes back to the extreme lack of polish with new content & features that came with the major updates like Railjack and Kuva Liches. A lack of polish and cohesiveness, or coherence, is noticeable and often makes things feel like they were just mashed together. Hence feeling like some content plays by different rules

This goes back to the criticism that Steven Sinclair agreed with from Total Biscuit which to paraphrase is, "Warframe feels like a castle built on the ruins of a castle which is also built on the ruins of a castle."

I think it is also fair that many people are tired of the Warframe being in the state of incomplete it has been for so long (even with all the additions they've made) while adding unfinished features that don't get revisited for years.
My unpopular opinion being that I think DE, along with their parent company, should halt the updates and use what is there to just make a solid base game at this point. Make the solid foundation that can receive content down the line. Because the one step forward, two steps back is getting old fast - and it shows.

Searching for perfection in a blatantly imperfect world is something ...
warframe and all other games can never be perfectly balanced. or is there einstein in the team who uses 5% of his brain? yes, even with 5% everybody could be a genius.

warframe is very good because the updates are large and patch notes are long. big respect to the developers here. but if you waste 3-6 months on testing for each update, then there are hardly any people online, and you mostly play solo and many veterans would perhaps log in once every few months. who wins? competitor?

[Iccotak]

4 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

Searching for perfection in a blatantly imperfect world is something ...
warframe and all other games can never be perfectly balanced. or is there einstein in the team who uses 5% of his brain? yes, even with 5% everybody could be a genius.

warframe is very good because the updates are large and patch notes are long. big respect to the developers here. but if you waste 3-6 months on testing for each update, then there are hardly any people online, and you mostly play solo and many veterans would perhaps log in once every few months. who wins? competitor?

Nobody is asking for perfection. They're asking for something resembling a complete and polished product instead of a perpetual petri dish. Experimentation is great as it does lead to evolution but if it constantly leads to unfinished features that don't get updated for years, or it leads to feature creep then it's a problem. 

It's ambition far outweighing ability to execute it, partially due to a lack of focus.

4 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

That's a pretty weak showing for a game that's significantly younger. 

Warframe is older and is still in this state of unfinished features and lack of polish. Not exactly a good argument for quality.

Also most games that have those "monotonous breaking features" make sure they are connected to the rest of the game and are not separate islands.

[Iccotak]

 

[xombob89]

On 2020-12-11 at 5:03 PM, Iccotak said:

think it is also fair that many people are tired of the Warframe being in the state of incomplete it has been for so long (even with all the additions they've made) while adding unfinished features that don't get revisited for years.
My unpopular opinion being that I think DE, along with their parent company, should halt the updates and use what is there to just make a solid base game at this point. Make the solid foundation that can receive content down the line. Because the one step forward, two steps back is getting old fast - and it shows.

I think its actually quite popular opinion atm based on the many similar threads like this popping up lately and a lot of comments like this Ive seen while browsing. 

Guess the sad truth is, new content brings the most money so DE like any other game dev company these days focuses on that rather than improving whats already there to make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Theres so much they could do to make liches better (hopefully after corpus ones they will), they could and should improve fissures, and even add something new to the core gamemodes to make them more interesting, engaging and fun. Heck, even Eidolons could use a few improvements to avoid the most common problems like people not putting the shard in the rock or not finding it in the first place cause someone teleported it or its in a tree somewhere.