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Exit feedback: Thank you


cute_moth.npc

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Dear Digital Extremes: Thank you for Warframe, it has at times been a really enjoyable experience but it has failed to hold my interest in the long run for these reasons:

Lack of end game / challenging content - This game is incredibly exciting at low levels to overcome challenges, it's fast paced and fun and figuring out where to get new mods and power up to overcome the next planet on the Star Chart is amazing. But at end game, I strongly feel that the power of the player greatly outstrips the available gameplay options and the feeling of exhilaration simply disappears as a result.. If you power your character down intentionally, you are either left to watch your teammates clear everything on their own regardless, or you are left with the option of playing solo which carries significantly decreased rewards. I understand that as a grind game, many players simply want to clear content as fast as possible to receive the greatest volume of rewards and that's a valid and respectable take but there is a substantial lack of engagement for players who also want to use the game's well designed movement and pacing in order to feel excited.

Please consider expanding difficulty options for players into new game modes, such as finding ways to extend Steel Path into additional optional gameplay modes that players regularly have to grind such as Void Relics, adding challenge modes, expanding rewards for solo play or other ways to provide content that will excite and challenge players.


Neglected systems and rewards - it is disheartening to invest time repeatedly into obtaining warframes, weapons and companions only to find out that many of these are simply not worth the effort to begin with. My most recent experience was obtaining a MOA only to find out that it suffers from severe survivability issues and behavioral problems. There are many warframes with patchy gameplay and kits in need of optimization or changes. Long grind rewards like the Shedu and things that the player invests hours of effort into are particularly disheartening when you finally pull the item from your Foundry and rank it up only to find out that their struggles were essentially wasted. I am not saying "MOA should be best" or that Shedu should be the top weapon because of its grind, but these items should at least be enticing and viable options in order to not disrespect the efforts of the player.

My final feedback for now would be: Please intensify your efforts to revise the game. I know there is always pressure to release fresh new content but I strongly feel as though turning your focus to reinforcing currently existing content is something that needs a greater development priority. I feel as though the core systems are very enjoyable and I will happily return and continue to support your product if the core game revisions go well.

Thanks sincerely!

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hmm, joined: september 26th... and reached 'endgame' at december 9th...?

either this is a silly way trolling or the fastes player in the history of warframe... or someone who should have stayed with certain other games i won't name here..

ofc, there are some valid points to this post, but that would be done better without all the drama around it.

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4 hours ago, fr4gb4ll said:

hmm, joined: september 26th... and reached 'endgame' at december 9th...?

either this is a silly way trolling or the fastes player in the history of warframe... or someone who should have stayed with certain other games i won't name here..

ofc, there are some valid points to this post, but that would be done better without all the drama around it.

Hello fr4gball,

I think there might be some sort of error with regards to the dates, I just had to log in to check and see and it was Daily Tribute #94, which clearly does not line up with September 26th, is it maybe based on the first time a user joins the forums? However, with that said I joined a clan approximately 3 weeks into playing and over the course of my playtime in that clan I witnessed several other players progress to equivalent levels of my own or progress past me by taking advice and resources offered to them such as the Ignis Wraith that the clan would happily provide or by obtaining weapons that really only require hours or a day or two of effort (for example, my first "big gun" was the Opticor Vandal obtained by doing Thermia Fractures which I think only took a few hours). Using resources available to the player such as the wiki for obtaining game information, events and giveaways for equipment or the trading market to fill in essential mods, it is actually not difficult from my perspective to reach the end of the star chart and have some forma and mods ready to enter arbitrations, then by trading for targeted mods to improve specific builds move onward into Steel Path.

I attempted to follow the "positive feedback" guidelines in this forum and to reinforce what I feel are positive aspects of the game because if I felt that this game was not worth trying to improve, I would not have made this post or monitoring it in case I felt that my position needed clarification. I'm sorry if my wording was still expressed in a fashion you'd consider dramatic, as it was not my intent.

I do not know which game(s) you might be referencing, but the last game I invested substantial time into was FFXIV.

Thanks sincerely, - Grey_Days

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I kinda feel like the lack of endgame you are commenting on while not necessarily wrong is also skewed by how you took the game at a sprint and not like a marathon as (In my opinion) the game is meant to be tackled. Please note, I'm not sharing your profile stats to malign or insult you in any way but to try to explain how I'm viewing your progression.

Warframe is meatiest around the middle of progression where you accomplish most of your goals for collecting warframes, mods, and weaponry. That middle bit is the bulk of the game and you don't seem to have explored it very much outside of meeting mastery requirements and powerful weaponry. You're complaining about end game but you've masterd 20/100 warframes, 88/420 weapons, and 0 amps, not even the mote which you get automagically. Guessing based on your archwing items you haven't delved too far into railjack (and archwing, although most people don't delve into archwing) if at all.

So of "endgame" activities in warframe you are at least ignoring or unaware of

  • Eidolon farming for arcanes and focus
  • Spider farming (hypothesis based on lack of amps and not having Hyldrin or Baruuk and lack of archwing weapons mastery)
  • Railjack with maxed variables (the parts behave kinda like kuva weapon with +stat transfers)
  • Open world Completion x3  (based on syndicate rank)
  • Focus School Completion
  • Ephemera Hunting (just a complete guess)
  • The Helminth System

You have however found:

  • Steel Path
  • Arbitrations
  • Lich Weaponry
  • Sorties (arguably no longer an endgame activity because feature/level creep is a thing)

Now I get it, I come from a collect and master all the things, fully complete builds and wring the last drops of content out of every surface type of mindset so my idea of what comprises "endgame" activities may vary wildly from what you expect but I still feel like there are more endgame activities than you are giving credit for. Now if you just don't like those activities that's a whole other kettle of fish.

All that said more endgame activities for more people is always a good thing. Your suggestion of Steel Path Fissures would probably appeal to a lot of people in fact they'd probably enjoy having the whole gamut of starchart activities (invasions, syndicate missions, nightmare missions) available for play there.

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18 hours ago, Grey_Days said:

I think there might be some sort of error with regards to the dates, I just had to log in to check and see and it was Daily Tribute #94, which clearly does not line up with September 26th, is it maybe based on the first time a user joins the forums?

might be, though i think i had to log into the forum one the very first day back then - but that might just my fading memory or maybe DE changed some things... might also be that DEs dates are full of BS ^^)

in any case, you got pretty fast tired of the game it seems and it might be the best thing indeed to take a brake for a while and try to enjoy at a later date again - your account will be there, waiting (even after a longer time, though then you might have to request it re-activated from the support, but that's not a problem). i wouldn't count on a revise in the extend to what you suggest though - not only will there be many players against such things (why ever...) but also DE might have different ideas... but at least they do work on the game and likely will do so still for the near future, so there is hope ^^

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I agree with neglected systems and need for focus on revisions 

Edit:

and overall I think DE should focus on making the game rather than "The next big feature".
For me Second Dream and War Within were big deals because it left the impression that Warframe not only had a story to explore but also that DE was working to make a complete base game. But the time spent on "New Things" rather than revising existing content and just making the game left a bitter after taste.

I took a break because I wanted to give DE time to further make the game so then when I came back later down the line, I'd have something closer to what DE envisioned. But certain choices come off as a lack of focus on coherent vision. It is also troubling when other people are making full games within the time of this "Open Beta". I do think that aspects of the F2P format that Warframe is in right now is holding it back.

Is it cool that it's free to play? Absolutely, its an accomplishment what they've achieved so far, don't get me wrong. BUT I'd rather pay $40-$60 for a complete and polished product than a "free" game that is constantly held and never fully realizes it's true potential.

 

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21 hours ago, Drasiel said:

I kinda feel like the lack of endgame you are commenting on while not necessarily wrong is also skewed by how you took the game at a sprint and not like a marathon as (In my opinion) the game is meant to be tackled. Please note, I'm not sharing your profile stats to malign or insult you in any way but to try to explain how I'm viewing your progression.

Drasiel, thank you for this sincere reply.

I feel like maybe it's a matter of perspective? I can definitely respect the desire to just collect it all and play the game to completion.

Coming from my own experience, I was always prepared to grind to get weapon X from "noob / leveling dungeon", move into the progression dungeon, then take that prog weapon into end game and use it to beat the scary at the end into a pulp. I will grind, collect and sweat until it is done.

I feel like that's relevant even in Warframe because when you list the amount of activities unfinished, you're absolutely right. I haven't done an Eidolon, fully completed all of the open worlds, completed my focus schools or attempted to grab the hundreds of weapons or warframes still available. There is a lot of grind left to do. The reason for bailing before it's all finished is that there's a disconnect in between my motivation and what's available to actually offered within the game from my perspective.

I know that I could collect all of these guns, but the primary issue remains.. What would I shoot these new weapons at that would bring the feeling of exhilaration back from when I first started? Like 95% of our gameplay is grinding relics, grinding resources, building reputation, doing so in an environment which has been sculpted to allow entry at lower equipment and skill levels and while I completely understand the point of entry level content, it is the massive bulk of our play time and that bulk never moves past the "leveling dungeon" sensation. Super powered characters in leveling dungeons, is boring.

I want the option to point my weapons at opponents worthy of the effort to collect and perfect them in a manner that is more than just a side show. If that is offered, I'd grind through the dullest piles of rocks, slog through collecting dozens or hundreds of new shinies and combine them in ways worthy of our opponents..

But as it stands, we collect mods that can be put on any same class weapon that never bring us back down to a level appropriate for the "leveling dungeon", and play with teammates who will already find the fastest ways to kill possible.. You can never really go back to start, and unless you're wanting to curate every moment of your gameplay, the game's very own systems broadly currently have a lack of offerings to match the efforts a player can reach even with modest investment. As a result, my desire to collect new things to do the same thing, melt in one shot or trivialize, is greatly diminished.

I am not asking for sets of end game raids every few months like FFXIV provides, it's a completely different game and I know that with the extreme variability in character power that Warframe's mod system creates, it is not realistic to expect. I also am not saying "make the whole game harder" as a blanket statement. I just want the option, an absolute personal preference, to play more of the basic staple gameplay that we are always playing to become more engaging so that if you want to sweat, you can sweat, or at least feel like you need to be there as a part of the team. The game already has scaling levels, we know that if you stay in a survival mission for 3 hours it will be spicy.. I just want that to be achievable more readily. It's a fast paced game with such fun systems and it's so close to being so spicy..

I'd like to touch on 3 things you mentioned too:

Railjack? YES.

I did do Railjack. I haven't focused on it to absolute completion but it's a really fun game mode.. I had to solo through most of Earth Proxima, ALL of Saturn Proxima, and most of Veil Proxima as well though.. I think it's an amazing game type.. The issue seems to be that nobody is playing it. It needs maybe more persistent rewards that tie in to the main game or another motivator, I don't really want to pretend to be an armchair dev and come up with solutions in this regard but I feel like its primary problem is that longevity was simply not built in.  I really feel like with more work, and maybe more rewards that are oriented towards the mainstream game that it's a really good offering and they've started work on something that actually does add value to the game.. I know they're working on Corpus railjack which I hope they'll improve not only on the gameplay but also methods of encouraging continued participation for the game mode.

Archwing? Sort of..

Archwing does tie in really well with Railjack and it's a nice addition to the open worlds.. As for the Archwing missions themselves, I do honestly believe that their indication of removing these focused mission types from the game is probably actually good.. The truth is, I spend a lot of time on Titania and she's literally a better Archwing than the entire game mode.. She can be played in any mission and get normal rewards, modded and played in unusual ways that Archwings can not, and a lot of maps such as Orokin void missions and Corpus ships actually become more inspired and entertaining pathways to race down than the fields of asteroids or claustrophobic clusters of tunnels that they've developed for the game mode proper. If anything, I think alternative warframes to Titania with different movesets and weapons or even just revising Titania herself is honestly a better investment than Archwing itself. I don't really feel like by itself it's that appealing, it's more enjoyable when tethered to more substantial content..

The Helminth system

I think it's a really neat idea, but respectfully, I also feel that it only reinforces my desires to see the game revised.. Spectrorage, Spellbound, Airburst, Terrify.. I mean.. It's a world of choice, but players are going to choose either damage up or survivability up for the most part.. And this reflects the situation of not only these, but numerous warframes.. Instead of nerfing Roar, DE should really be looking at this as a call to action to figure out what's wrong with so many patchy skills that exist in this game. Players are not choosing these and I think they wouldn't choose them even if they nerfed Roar into a 10% bonus. Some of them have uses in niche content or in Steel Path, but overall they sort of suck in almost all of the content that we play, and they have sucked for years and years. I feel like they would be really well served in placing a greater priority at looking at broken skills and warframes that go for so long without revisions rather than working on any new content island or gimmick. I know they need to introduce shiny new things, but they also need to consider how long leaving core gameplay for the very base of the game, the warframes themselves, to rot is really healthy.. Those content islands are only temporary things that players use to get new shinies, whereas the warframes themselves are something that we invest our time and hearts into mastering and they're almost always at the forefront of the gameplay we experience.

This was very long so as a tl;dr, thank you!

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