Some Points on where I believe Digital Extremes should take Warframe.

[Joezone619]

Intro

Warframe is a great game. It is a unique game (ish), with unique creators. But a problem that has been visibly growing since the plains of eidolon was first shown at tennocon, is that DE keeps making more scattered content. Cetus, Fortuna, and now Necralisk all are massive free roam areas with a lot of stuff involved with themselves, not so much with other parts of the game. Fortuna is really the only one that connects at all somewhere other then itself, and even then not by much, disruption missions and granum coins is about it.

Using an analogy, these updates are like lakes, that don't connect to the ocean because the rivers have grown too thin and dried up. I believe that the current problem in warframe right now, isn't that there is little content, its that there is little re-playable content, updates since cetus don't recycle themselves well. Riven mods are really the only thing off the top of my head that has any form of replay-ability/recycling.

Currently, When I'm playing warframe, I usually farm kuva, farm for plat, or help out friends new to the game to keep myself busy. That's not to say these "content islands" don't have stuff to do, sure I could fight the mother orbs on fortuna, hunt eidolons on cetus, and do whatever it is people do on deimos, but to what? The rewards after having completed the majority of those area's are scarce, and thus so is reason to play them.

 

TL;DR :  Warframe is re-playable, but not as much as I'd like it to be.

 

Sorties

I remember back before cetus existed, warframe's playerbase was more focused on wanting DE to release more quests and planets. Sorties now exist as a type of remedy for that. But just like kuva lich's personalities are stale and repeat, so do sorties. Quests offer interesting gameplay, because the story was interesting. Quests were wanted back then, because people were interested in finding out what there is to tell about this world we found ourselves in, the stories it could tell.

I do not believe sorties will ever give off that same type of feeling, regardless of what they do. But that doesn't mean they cant be more interesting then they are now. To me, sorties are boring, because its just the same old missions and tilesets but watchout they got more armor! or be careful, they're all eximus! Arbitrations now suffer a similar dilemma, where as they are just normal missions once the fancy quirk, or special mode is easy and routine to beat, they then mean nothing to you.

I believe they should make sorties more unique, such as having their own tilesets, unique dialog, and/or special mix-match gamemodes, kind of like how the kuva survival, is a survival mission, mobile defense, and excavation all in one. There is always some boss that the sortie is based around like "defeat til-rigor's forces" while those same bosses seem entirely disconnected and unrelated to the sortie all together, why not give them dialog only heard in a sortie. If their forces are this big of a threat, shouldn't they be commanding them?

 

TL;DR :  Make sorties more unique, and more related to the bosses they're being based around that day.

 

Tilesets/Planets

Let me ask you a question, what's the difference between a survival on phobos, and a survival on pluto? What's the difference between a capture on mercury, and one on saturn? Aside from planetary resources, and levels, there isn't really any difference at all. Grineer ship/asteroid tilesets are the same from mercury to sedna. If we're unlocking all these planets and going to all these places, shouldn't there be a variety between how enemies dress, ships are built, and stations are made?

The corpus are slightly better then the grineer but not by much, their uniforms differ between ship corpus, ground corpus, Jupiter, and orb-vallis corpus but a different helmet and different colored costume isn't enough variety if those costumes are near-exactly the same in shape.

Jupiter for example, is the best out of the planets, the rooms and tilesets there are unique to Jupiter, if you are shown rooms on Jupiter without context, you'll know exactly where it is. do the same for a corpus or grineer ship anywhere, and its anyone's guess. Lua too, if your shown lua maps, you instantly recognize where it is, its unique, it isn't anywhere else, and its easily identifiable.

 

TL;DR :  Tilesets between planets don't have enough variety/uniqueness to them.

 

Arbitrations

I was soo happy when I heard there were gonna be missions where you have 1 life, 1 try, 1 go at it. When it first released I loved it, the idea that even though I'm a nigh unstoppable space ninja of destruction, that I still had my limits. Then DE made you able to revive other dead players, and didn't even bother to make it "you can only be revived once", they didn't even put a limit on it at all, meaning technically so long as you have allies to grab the tokens, you have infinite revives. I understand why, host migrations were a pain, but then why not just host arbitrations on a server like relays or clan dojos. Personally I would really like the "you have 1 chance at this" thrill it gave me before.

The Rewards, are amazing, but not exactly what I would've done. I agree with making these arbitrations endo farms, a place someone can get endo on mass, but I disagree with them using ayatan sculptures to do it. Before arbitrations, ayatan sculptures are much harder to find, much more valuable, and much more of a collectable. Now? everyone and their mother has at least 50 of these things. I think they should remove the ayatan sculptures from the drop table, and make the endo rewards more common to balance it out, or make "hexis sculptures" that use vitus essence as ayatan stars, that you can trade to either maroo or the hexis people for endo. Just like ayatan sculptures, they'd be a great source of endo, while at the same time not devaluing the ayatan sculptures. I didn't know the arbiters of hexis had warehouses of rare, valuable, extremely sought after orokin relics?

 

TL;DR :  Arbitrations need to stop using ayatan sculptures, and replace them with their own sculptures worth as much endo, and they need to give you a thrill worthy of "you walk as any mortal would"

 

Kuva Siphons

Leave them be, they're good enough as is. Maybe have them reward more kuva, and/or make more then 1 kuva flood per hour.

 

Content Islands Free Roam Areas

Oh boy is there a lot of debate about these places, and rightfully so. DE has a lot to fix with these places. They barley if at all connect to the rest of the game, aren't required for any/many quests. They can go by completely unexplored by new players, and they wouldn't miss a thing. Sure you got fancy arcanes on cetus and fortuna, these new necramechs on the necralisk. K-Drives, and those rideable dragonflies.

All of this stuff (aside from arcanes), are solely purposed for those free roam areas. K-Drives and necramechs have no usage outside of free roam (necramechs not for long), and these free roam areas have no connection to the outside world, forever dependent on players going "oh what's this?" and being interested enough to check it out. Honestly, I don't have much to suggest here for how to "Connect the free roam area's", that was railjack's job and it failed massively, living up to only 1/10th of what we were promised and 1/50th of that was shown.

But I do have some ideas of where to start. Like with little duck on fortuna, leading disruption missions, and solaris U needing to be rescued from corpus ship tiles, they should implement more day-to-day mission stuff like that. Maybe add quills members able to be found on grineer missions, perhaps as a rare chance to spawn, maybe he is having trouble fighting on his own, and needs your help. Maybe the grineer stole something from the entrati family's vaults, and they want it back. Its the small things that help to build a large picture.

 

TL;DR :  Add more interaction with these factions outside of the free roam areas they belong in.

 

Empyrean/Railjack

And finally, railjack. Lets get the obvious out of the way, it was a let down, it failed, a leap of faith, sometimes you fall. But falling, isn't the end, its up to DE to get back up and try again. Railjack is by no means an easy endeavor, but with a bit of work here, some touch ups there, it can get back on its feet, and fly again.

Currently for me, the biggest problem isn't the gameplay, its the motivation. There is no reason to play it currently. You can get riven slivers, its a great for affinity.... and that's it. Personally, I think they should make riven slivers tradeable for 50 kuva, or something of the sort. Railjack has too many resource rewards for completing missions, its very very fun, but with no motivation it has the problem steel path did, sure you could go have you super hard adventure but why?

They have been looking into making corpus lichs deal with railjack, which is a much welcomed change of pace. But if they really want to "connect" the game they can take it a step further. Perhaps they can have sorties that deal with railjack, or maybe rare occurrences in missions where you can summon your railjack to extract, and jump straight into a railjack mission from a normal one. or perhaps there is a galleon reinforcement that "could" interfere with your mission, and you are given the option to go take it out.

 

TL;DR :  Connect railjack to the rest of the game. Give reasons to play railjack.

 

Ending Message

At the end of the day, I'm still going to play warframe. DE are amazing creators, and they DO have the recourses to make warframe MUCH better then it is now. The last major updates have been flops, fails, and falls but I have confidence that DE is more then capable of getting back up, maybe 2021 can be a year of recovery and allow them to take this game to even greater heights. Stay sharp tenno, I have a feeling warframe isn't close to done yet.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

We shouldn't assume everyone is a 6 year vet that has everything and just wants to change stuff because they're bored. 

I have like 12 ayatan sculptures and 50,000 endo. That will be gone by next week and I'll be replenishing those all over again.

"Content island" is a buzzword and not much else. When and if DE wants to "connect" them will take a lot of effort and planning (you already admitted you knew about necramechs in regular missions so what's the problem) and that stuff doesn't happen overnight. 

When I get a kitgun to use in all content, or complete a mission with my operator only, using arcanes from the Quills and Vox, that's connected for me. When I see people breaking eidolon limbs with necramechs, that's connected to me as well. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

TL;DR :  Warframe is re-playable, but not as much as I'd like it to be.

more or less true for me as well. usually I'm on for a month or two, however long it takes to grind the new content, then I play other games more, and then I end up just logging in.

3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

TL;DR :  Make sorties more unique, and more related to the bosses they're being based around that day.

would certainly be nice, but unique tilesets for each Sortie is kind of a stretch. they could tie in other modes though, like if it's a Kela Sortie, have a Sortie Level Rathuum mission. sure, not everyone likes Rathuum, but that's an example. Assassinations should also be guaranteed as the last mission in  a Sortie, because if we haven't killed the boss, are we really doing that much to them?

3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Tilesets between planets don't have enough variety/uniqueness to them.

this IS gradually getting fixed, but tilesets take a long time to make, especially when the devs are also obsessed with getting every last detail right; the end result is awesome, Jupiter and the reworked Corpus Ships look amazing, but you can't make such nioce things without it coming with a lot of time and expense. as the saying goes, you can't rush art.

I'm hoping that after Corpus Liches and railjack are added, we can get Eris looked at next. those tumor-filled corridors are in great need of redesign.

3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

  Arbitrations need to stop using ayatan sculptures, and replace them with their own sculptures worth as much endo, and they need to give you a thrill worthy of "you walk as any mortal would"

Endo in large enough quantities isn't bad, at least if you still need the stuff. IMO, they need to start giving us more reasons to use Endo, more mods, more ayatans, or maybe even be able to use Endo as a currency for things like relics; if we get a place to use it frequently, it will be valuable to a wider number of people.

3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

TL;DR :  Add more interaction with these factions outside of the free roam areas they belong in.

Necramechs are being made usable in regular missions,  so that's one example of a free-roam mechanic being made widely available. K-drives and Archwings need to be included more often in regular missions, but for the most part this may require tileset reworks to even warrant the use of vehicles. as it currently stands, using K-Drive on a regular tileset would be infinitely worse than just using your warframe alone, as you can only use secondary and you'd be bouncing off the walls like a blind squirrel with 5 Espressos in his gut.

3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Connect railjack to the rest of the game. Give reasons to play railjack.

I want this too. Railjack is, IMO, one of the coolest concepts I've seen in any game in the past 4 or 5 years. once we have Corpus, and then probably infested Railjack levels, DE may start looking into getting Railajck to be a part of the main missions. I love the idea of having a good squad link system where I can be called upon by another squad to destroy a grineer satellite or whatever to make their mission easier, and also have players be rewarded for working with each other, on the ground and in space. 

it's all great and wonderful to think about, but it's also a hell of a long way off.

[(PSN)greens_pls]

6 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Intro

Warframe is a great game. It is a unique game (ish), with unique creators. But a problem that has been visibly growing since the plains of eidolon was first shown at tennocon, is that DE keeps making more scattered content. Cetus, Fortuna, and now Necralisk all are massive free roam areas with a lot of stuff involved with themselves, not so much with other parts of the game. Fortuna is really the only one that connects at all somewhere other then itself, and even then not by much, disruption missions and granum coins is about it.

Using an analogy, these updates are like lakes, that don't connect to the ocean because the rivers have grown too thin and dried up. I believe that the current problem in warframe right now, isn't that there is little content, its that there is little re-playable content, updates since cetus don't recycle themselves well. Riven mods are really the only thing off the top of my head that has any form of replay-ability/recycling.

Currently, When I'm playing warframe, I usually farm kuva, farm for plat, or help out friends new to the game to keep myself busy. That's not to say these "content islands" don't have stuff to do, sure I could fight the mother orbs on fortuna, hunt eidolons on cetus, and do whatever it is people do on deimos, but to what? The rewards after having completed the majority of those area's are scarce, and thus so is reason to play them.

 

TL;DR :  Warframe is re-playable, but not as much as I'd like it to be.

 

Sorties

I remember back before cetus existed, warframe's playerbase was more focused on wanting DE to release more quests and planets. Sorties now exist as a type of remedy for that. But just like kuva lich's personalities are stale and repeat, so do sorties. Quests offer interesting gameplay, because the story was interesting. Quests were wanted back then, because people were interested in finding out what there is to tell about this world we found ourselves in, the stories it could tell.

I do not believe sorties will ever give off that same type of feeling, regardless of what they do. But that doesn't mean they cant be more interesting then they are now. To me, sorties are boring, because its just the same old missions and tilesets but watchout they got more armor! or be careful, they're all eximus! Arbitrations now suffer a similar dilemma, where as they are just normal missions once the fancy quirk, or special mode is easy and routine to beat, they then mean nothing to you.

I believe they should make sorties more unique, such as having their own tilesets, unique dialog, and/or special mix-match gamemodes, kind of like how the kuva survival, is a survival mission, mobile defense, and excavation all in one. There is always some boss that the sortie is based around like "defeat til-rigor's forces" while those same bosses seem entirely disconnected and unrelated to the sortie all together, why not give them dialog only heard in a sortie. If their forces are this big of a threat, shouldn't they be commanding them?

 

TL;DR :  Make sorties more unique, and more related to the bosses they're being based around that day.

 

Tilesets/Planets

Let me ask you a question, what's the difference between a survival on phobos, and a survival on pluto? What's the difference between a capture on mercury, and one on saturn? Aside from planetary resources, and levels, there isn't really any difference at all. Grineer ship/asteroid tilesets are the same from mercury to sedna. If we're unlocking all these planets and going to all these places, shouldn't there be a variety between how enemies dress, ships are built, and stations are made?

The corpus are slightly better then the grineer but not by much, their uniforms differ between ship corpus, ground corpus, Jupiter, and orb-vallis corpus but a different helmet and different colored costume isn't enough variety if those costumes are near-exactly the same in shape.

Jupiter for example, is the best out of the planets, the rooms and tilesets there are unique to Jupiter, if you are shown rooms on Jupiter without context, you'll know exactly where it is. do the same for a corpus or grineer ship anywhere, and its anyone's guess. Lua too, if your shown lua maps, you instantly recognize where it is, its unique, it isn't anywhere else, and its easily identifiable.

 

TL;DR :  Tilesets between planets don't have enough variety/uniqueness to them.

 

Arbitrations

I was soo happy when I heard there were gonna be missions where you have 1 life, 1 try, 1 go at it. When it first released I loved it, the idea that even though I'm a nigh unstoppable space ninja of destruction, that I still had my limits. Then DE made you able to revive other dead players, and didn't even bother to make it "you can only be revived once", they didn't even put a limit on it at all, meaning technically so long as you have allies to grab the tokens, you have infinite revives. I understand why, host migrations were a pain, but then why not just host arbitrations on a server like relays or clan dojos. Personally I would really like the "you have 1 chance at this" thrill it gave me before.

The Rewards, are amazing, but not exactly what I would've done. I agree with making these arbitrations endo farms, a place someone can get endo on mass, but I disagree with them using ayatan sculptures to do it. Before arbitrations, ayatan sculptures are much harder to find, much more valuable, and much more of a collectable. Now? everyone and their mother has at least 50 of these things. I think they should remove the ayatan sculptures from the drop table, and make the endo rewards more common to balance it out, or make "hexis sculptures" that use vitus essence as ayatan stars, that you can trade to either maroo or the hexis people for endo. Just like ayatan sculptures, they'd be a great source of endo, while at the same time not devaluing the ayatan sculptures. I didn't know the arbiters of hexis had warehouses of rare, valuable, extremely sought after orokin relics?

 

TL;DR :  Arbitrations need to stop using ayatan sculptures, and replace them with their own sculptures worth as much endo, and they need to give you a thrill worthy of "you walk as any mortal would"

 

Kuva Siphons

Leave them be, they're good enough as is. Maybe have them reward more kuva, and/or make more then 1 kuva flood per hour.

 

Content Islands Free Roam Areas

Oh boy is there a lot of debate about these places, and rightfully so. DE has a lot to fix with these places. They barley if at all connect to the rest of the game, aren't required for any/many quests. They can go by completely unexplored by new players, and they wouldn't miss a thing. Sure you got fancy arcanes on cetus and fortuna, these new necramechs on the necralisk. K-Drives, and those rideable dragonflies.

All of this stuff (aside from arcanes), are solely purposed for those free roam areas. K-Drives and necramechs have no usage outside of free roam (necramechs not for long), and these free roam areas have no connection to the outside world, forever dependent on players going "oh what's this?" and being interested enough to check it out. Honestly, I don't have much to suggest here for how to "Connect the free roam area's", that was railjack's job and it failed massively, living up to only 1/10th of what we were promised and 1/50th of that was shown.

But I do have some ideas of where to start. Like with little duck on fortuna, leading disruption missions, and solaris U needing to be rescued from corpus ship tiles, they should implement more day-to-day mission stuff like that. Maybe add quills members able to be found on grineer missions, perhaps as a rare chance to spawn, maybe he is having trouble fighting on his own, and needs your help. Maybe the grineer stole something from the entrati family's vaults, and they want it back. Its the small things that help to build a large picture.

 

TL;DR :  Add more interaction with these factions outside of the free roam areas they belong in.

 

Empyrean/Railjack

And finally, railjack. Lets get the obvious out of the way, it was a let down, it failed, a leap of faith, sometimes you fall. But falling, isn't the end, its up to DE to get back up and try again. Railjack is by no means an easy endeavor, but with a bit of work here, some touch ups there, it can get back on its feet, and fly again.

Currently for me, the biggest problem isn't the gameplay, its the motivation. There is no reason to play it currently. You can get riven slivers, its a great for affinity.... and that's it. Personally, I think they should make riven slivers tradeable for 50 kuva, or something of the sort. Railjack has too many resource rewards for completing missions, its very very fun, but with no motivation it has the problem steel path did, sure you could go have you super hard adventure but why?

They have been looking into making corpus lichs deal with railjack, which is a much welcomed change of pace. But if they really want to "connect" the game they can take it a step further. Perhaps they can have sorties that deal with railjack, or maybe rare occurrences in missions where you can summon your railjack to extract, and jump straight into a railjack mission from a normal one. or perhaps there is a galleon reinforcement that "could" interfere with your mission, and you are given the option to go take it out.

 

TL;DR :  Connect railjack to the rest of the game. Give reasons to play railjack.

 

Ending Message

At the end of the day, I'm still going to play warframe. DE are amazing creators, and they DO have the recourses to make warframe MUCH better then it is now. The last major updates have been flops, fails, and falls but I have confidence that DE is more then capable of getting back up, maybe 2021 can be a year of recovery and allow them to take this game to even greater heights. Stay sharp tenno, I have a feeling warframe isn't close to done yet.

My biggest gripe is going to different planets and it is all same-y feeling. They all have the same gravity and light. Jupiter is supposed to be a giant gas ball-storm but feels exactly the same as any other mission. Pluto is billions of miles away from the sun but it's still bright outside.

Is it too much to ask for attention to detail in the environments we spend millions of hours on collectively? 

[Hypernaut1]

It would be cool to see the ideas DE has scrawled about on paper and saved to a bunch of word docs. Chances are, they are far more ambitious and creative than anything any of us armchair devs come up with in our spare time browsing the forum. Problem is, fantasizing about ideas and implementing them are two very different things. Many people seem to not understand that. Sometimes that awesome perfect idea you have to solve all of the games problems actually create a ton more, so compromises have to be made. Sometimes nebulous concepts like "create awesome Endgame" "connect all islands" "balance all weapons and abilities" becomes a much bigger challenge when you have to build it starting with step 1, then step 2, step 2, and so on.  

yeah, so i doubt the devs read the forums and go "Eureka!! why didnt i think about that? we just need connect content islands and make everything mean something!! What a genius post!"

[OniDax]

9 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Intro

Warframe is a great game. It is a unique game (ish), with unique creators. But a problem that has been visibly growing since the plains of eidolon was first shown at tennocon, is that DE keeps making more scattered content. Cetus, Fortuna, and now Necralisk all are massive free roam areas with a lot of stuff involved with themselves, not so much with other parts of the game. Fortuna is really the only one that connects at all somewhere other then itself, and even then not by much, disruption missions and granum coins is about it.

Using an analogy, these updates are like lakes, that don't connect to the ocean because the rivers have grown too thin and dried up. I believe that the current problem in warframe right now, isn't that there is little content, its that there is little re-playable content, updates since cetus don't recycle themselves well. Riven mods are really the only thing off the top of my head that has any form of replay-ability/recycling.

Currently, When I'm playing warframe, I usually farm kuva, farm for plat, or help out friends new to the game to keep myself busy. That's not to say these "content islands" don't have stuff to do, sure I could fight the mother orbs on fortuna, hunt eidolons on cetus, and do whatever it is people do on deimos, but to what? The rewards after having completed the majority of those area's are scarce, and thus so is reason to play them.

 

TL;DR :  Warframe is re-playable, but not as much as I'd like it to be.

 

TL;DR :  Make sorties more unique, and more related to the bosses they're being based around that day.

 

TL;DR :  Tilesets between planets don't have enough variety/uniqueness to them.

TL;DR :  Arbitrations need to stop using ayatan sculptures, and replace them with their own sculptures worth as much endo, and they need to give you a thrill worthy of "you walk as any mortal would"

 

Kuva Siphons

Leave them be, they're good enough as is. Maybe have them reward more kuva, and/or make more then 1 kuva flood per hour.

 

TL;DR :  Add more interaction with these factions outside of the free roam areas they belong in.

 

TL;DR :  Connect railjack to the rest of the game. Give reasons to play railjack.

It's always great to see someone expound on their ideas for improving the game in a well-organized format, even if it's not something I agree with. This might be better in the General Feedback section, though, since it's really feedback. I'll provide my own opinions on the topics you've covered.

1) Regarding the opening discussion of Content Islands and Connectivity across the game, I think there are some challenges to really connecting the game. First of all, the game is designed as a farming, grinding looter shooter. The addition of new resources is DE's way of motivating players to stick with the game. It gives them something to do. Often, you'll find players expressing satisfaction or contentment with the game because they have a whole lot to do in the game, a whole lot of stuff to collect. If the game is going to retain its players that way, then it needs to keep offering new content that requires new resources. That means new pieces of content won't necessarily be connected. It's also DE's way of pushing players to focus on the new content.

Now, there is a significant number of players who are no longer satisfied with this approach. I don't think they're the majority, and for full disclosure, I'm one of those players. However, unless DE fundamentally changes how they develop the game and what the focus of the game is, I don't believe this will change.

2) Regarding replayability, I think every game will have a challenge with replayability if the mode of replayability is offering new rewards. At some point, rewards stop being interesting. At some point, a game gets bloated to the point that is has too much content. In my opinion, rewards are not a solution to replayability. Rewards are a great way of supporting the game with more content, but rewards cannot be the main motivator for playing a game. At some point, players have to enjoy playing the game because of the gameplay. If they do, then they'll get new rewards when they're available, and when they aren't available, they'll still enjoy playing the game. They'll enjoy playing the game during times of content drought, and after they've collected everything there is to collect in the game. I'd like to see DE put more focus on how to make the gameplay experience more engaging and immersive such that players just enjoy being in the world of Warframe, even when they don't have chores to do, tasks to complete, items to collect, and content to max out.

3) Regarding connectivity, I really liked Steve's original Railjack idea of it connecting the system by allowing us to freely travel to any planet with the railjack, and to then be able to do missions from the Railjack (whether we're hopping out to go take on a Galleon, or to initiate ground or archwing missions. I would find that experience much more immersive. The game would feel more like an RPG, and like open space that we could explore. Missions would feel less like isolated instances and more like natural activities within the same gameplay space. That would make the game feel connected, even if the missions themselves were still technically isolated.

I was disappointed when Railjack was just another instanced mission because I wanted the Empyrean environment to not just feel like an open world (where it's not just a linear mission but where you can fly around and explore, with optional missions/bounties that you can do), but to connect the system. I wanted to be able to simply navigate to a planet and then choose whether I wanted to fly around that planet's orbit and freely take on enemy ships, or explore and mine space rocks, discover and explore Orokin derelicts, or deploy to the planet's surface to do any number of the ground-based missions we can already do. That would be a connected game, imo, where even if the resources and rewards are isolated, at the very least, each planet feels like an island in the ocean that is space.

4) Regarding tilesets/planets, I would like for planets to be a bit more unique, but DE has been slowly doing that with their remasters. The big thing I want is that I don't want DE to override the previous story with their reworks like they've done with Jupiter and the Corpus ship. They're creating content for their post-Sacrifice story without regard for the pre-Second Dream story. I know DE needs an incentive to get players to revisit the planets they remaster, but I don't think the solution is to make new stories for those old places. I think the solution is to make these places interesting and let the player decide whether they want to go back and play that content. Maybe make enemies even more unique per planet instead of using the same character models.

Going back to my first point, it would also help if collecting resources and rewards wasn't the only motivation to play the game. If DE focused on and encouraged gameplay over simply collecting rewards, then players might enjoy playing certain content because they liked the content, not because it offered them the rewards they're looking for.

5) Regarding Sorties and Arbitrations, the problem with higher difficulty content is that it's difficult to create incentives to play that content. However, I agree with your ideas regarding Ayatans and Endo. Harder content with a consistent, reliable resource is sustainable and maintainable. Ayatans, though, should be more special. I remember when Steve was first talking about ayatans. He said they would hold Orokin memories and serve as another source of lore. It's hard to get back to that point now, considering how common Ayatans are, so I'm not sure if it's too late to change that. I like your TL;DR, though, as it suggests a more immersive, meaningful Arbitration experience. I'd suggest some minibosses to make it almost feel like the Arbiters are putting you through a test. I'd even have the enemies be unique Arbiters creations instead of Grineer, Corpus, and Infested.

6) Concluding, I think the topics you address are worth discussing. I personally would like some tweaks to the core gameplay experience that, imo, would help lead to some more interesting gameplay (like improving animations, a tweak to melee blocking such that we could have a parry system with enemy melee bosses, expanding railjack navigation, etc.). I think that would help create connectivity and replayability.

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It would be cool to see the ideas DE has scrawled about on paper and saved to a bunch of word docs. Chances are, they are far more ambitious and creative than anything any of us armchair devs come up with in our spare time browsing the forum. Problem is, fantasizing about ideas and implementing them are two very different things. Many people seem to not understand that. Sometimes that awesome perfect idea you have to solve all of the games problems actually create a ton more, so compromises have to be made. Sometimes nebulous concepts like "create awesome Endgame" "connect all islands" "balance all weapons and abilities" becomes a much bigger challenge when you have to build it starting with step 1, then step 2, step 2, and so on.  

yeah, so i doubt the devs read the forums and go "Eureka!! why didnt i think about that? we just need connect content islands and make everything mean something!! What a genius post!"

The OP is not being an armchair developer just because, out of passion for the game, they have some ideas for making the game better. Stop trying to discredit any suggestion just because someone had an idea. There is nothing wrong with expressing ideas about the game and how a player thinks it can be better. Stop the metacomplaining. Your comment is not constructive and adds nothing to this post or to this community. It's one thing to do like Madurai-Prime and say that you actually think the game is connected. But to basically decry someone expressing their ideas for the game and label them as armchair developers is not constructive. It's an attempt to stifle discussion. If you have a problem with certain points the OP has made, or if you have a counterargument, then make that point. But don't bash the OP simply because he/she has ideas.

 

 

[Joezone619]

I think DE should stop making 'new' content for a little while, and work on getting the existing stuff on par with the new stuff. most of it doesn't have much to offer compared to free roams, railjack, lichs, and so on.

Personally I think tileset tweaks, not full out changes, is the best way to start making warframe feel more connected with itself. nothing massive like the corpus changes, just maybe on ships make the planet visible from windows, maybe small design changes for how the rooms are shaped, maybe add a few unique rooms only found on certain planets, small things here and there, work up to the big stuff later.

One of the problems i think warframe has currently isn't that theres no content, its that the content gets old fast, and is disregarded as content. DE keeps making these gamemodes like arbitration, and sorties, and steel path alerts. Giving them cool and unique rewards to give players motivation to play them. I think the reward isn't the thing to focus on, its the gameplay of those modes. To me the reward doesn't motivate me to play the game mode, it motivates me to get it over and done with as fast as possible so i can get those rewards.

[ChaoticEdge]

still prefer improved kuva survival mission you know that only 200 kuva per whatever life support it gives, I prefer it just give us 300-400 kuva instead of dang 200 for it is pretty pointless per each unless you bought the double resources then I only can say it is waste buying the double resources when you could double resources with the one give you instance kuva for their vaule per each is worth around 7-9k kuva if you use double resources on thous mission that show the kuva siphons machine pop up.  I think it is better create a highjack mission to highjack large amount of kuva in the kuva fort so that we don't have to spend hours try to lived, getting the dang resouces which no one play kuva survival mode at all.  Its freaking dead.

[ChaoticEdge]

coming back now, what I realized they forgot the kuva queen this is sort of a meme that is playing that one meme

and they recently forgot on this new twitch about the worm queen for I believed everyone forgot the twin queens.

[Joezone619]

56 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

coming back now, what I realized they forgot the kuva queen this is sort of a meme that is playing that one meme

and they recently forgot on this new twitch about the worm queen for I believed everyone forgot the twin queens.

I think this sums up how the rest of warframe outside the free roam areas feel.

[ChaoticEdge]

1 hour ago, Joezone619 said:

I think this sums up how the rest of warframe outside the free roam areas feel.

the queens worm is along with the others.  This also plunge more confusion about in the warframe and it's lore for due-able of questioning will the questioned will be answered.

[AzureTerra]

Looks like it could be feedback but it cant be because its in the general trash heap.

[ChaoticEdge]

9 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

Looks like it could be feedback but it cant be because its in the general trash heap.

there is always a postive and negative but more likely negative is piling up in the heap of trash.

[SenorClipClop]

On 2020-12-10 at 5:20 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

"Content island" is a buzzword and not much else. When and if DE wants to "connect" them will take a lot of effort and planning (you already admitted you knew about necramechs in regular missions so what's the problem) and that stuff doesn't happen overnight. 

Not to mention that in order for something not to be a "content island" -- a system that rewards participation with benefits only or predominantly within itself -- it would invariably become "forced gameplay" -- a system that rewards participation with benefits within itself and outside of itself, so that a player who enjoys system A is missing out if they don't also play in system B.

Right now if people don't like Railjack, they don't miss out on much by not playing it, or by playing minimally, because its rewards are mainly tied to improving your Railjack experience. Properly tying in Railjack to the rest of the game (ie not keeping it as a content island) would probably involve more base-game rewards dropping from Railjack. Then players who don't like Railjack would feel obligated to play it to improve their experience in the game mode(s) they enjoy. We gotta pick a lane here, and changing RJ from the "content island" that it is would probably cause a lot of actual grief, as opposed to the current arrangement where "content island" is just, as Madurai says, a buzzword, thrown around as blank ammo by salty gamers.

[Hypernaut1]

20 hours ago, OniDax said:

The OP is not being an armchair developer just because, out of passion for the game, they have some ideas for making the game better. Stop trying to discredit any suggestion just because someone had an idea. There is nothing wrong with expressing ideas about the game and how a player thinks it can be better. Stop the metacomplaining. Your comment is not constructive and adds nothing to this post or to this community. It's one thing to do like Madurai-Prime and say that you actually think the game is connected. But to basically decry someone expressing their ideas for the game and label them as armchair developers is not constructive. It's an attempt to stifle discussion. If you have a problem with certain points the OP has made, or if you have a counterargument, then make that point. But don't bash the OP simply because he/she has ideas.

eas for the game and label them as armchair developers is not constructive. It's an attempt to stifle discussion. If you have a problem with certain points the OP has made, or if you have a counterargument, then make that point. But don't bash the OP simply because he/she has ideas.

 

 

There is a feedback section. This is general discussion. I'm discussing the game. You are discussing me. 

My counterpoint is it all sounds good on paper until it gets implemented. 

[Hypernaut1]

15 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Not to mention that in order for something not to be a "content island" -- a system that rewards participation with benefits only or predominantly within itself -- it would invariably become "forced gameplay" -- a system that rewards participation with benefits within itself and outside of itself, so that a player who enjoys system A is missing out if they don't also play in system B.

Right now if people don't like Railjack, they don't miss out on much by not playing it, or by playing minimally, because its rewards are mainly tied to improving your Railjack experience. Properly tying in Railjack to the rest of the game (ie not keeping it as a content island) would probably involve more base-game rewards dropping from Railjack. Then players who don't like Railjack would feel obligated to play it to improve their experience in the game mode(s) they enjoy. We gotta pick a lane here, and changing RJ from the "content island" that it is would probably cause a lot of actual grief, as opposed to the current arrangement where "content island" is just, as Madurai says, a buzzword, thrown around as blank ammo by salty gamers.

That's the thing with buzzwords, you can make them up to fit anything you want to criticize about the game. Literally every aspect of the game can be belittled down to a buzzword and become a "design flaw"

"Content island" vs "forced content"

"Mandatory mods" vs "bandaid mods"

" Cookie cutter" content vs "random" content.

 

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

30 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Not to mention that in order for something not to be a "content island" -- a system that rewards participation with benefits only or predominantly within itself -- it would invariably become "forced gameplay" -- a system that rewards participation with benefits within itself and outside of itself, so that a player who enjoys system A is missing out if they don't also play in system B.

Right now if people don't like Railjack, they don't miss out on much by not playing it, or by playing minimally, because its rewards are mainly tied to improving your Railjack experience. Properly tying in Railjack to the rest of the game (ie not keeping it as a content island) would probably involve more base-game rewards dropping from Railjack. Then players who don't like Railjack would feel obligated to play it to improve their experience in the game mode(s) they enjoy. We gotta pick a lane here, and changing RJ from the "content island" that it is would probably cause a lot of actual grief, as opposed to the current arrangement where "content island" is just, as Madurai says, a buzzword, thrown around as blank ammo by salty gamers.

I agree.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

20 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

That's the thing with buzzwords, you can make them up to fit anything you want to criticize about the game. Literally every aspect of the game can be belittled down to a buzzword and become a "design flaw"

"Content island" vs "forced content"

"Mandatory mods" vs "bandaid mods"

" Cookie cutter" content vs "random" content.

 

 

Some people legitimately said they were being forced to participate in liches because the weapons had mastery though. If simply adding something to the game with mastery is forced content then why is that person even playing. Mastery isn't new, every weapon and frame has mastery tied to it, so the very act of leveling Volt, Excal, or mag at the beginning of the game is forced content and everything afterwards. 

I propose a new buzzword called "content buffet". This implies the game is simply something that people of different play types can engage in whenever they want. 

I never felt forced to do many things in the game. I started liches 2 weeks ago, got my Helminth 2 months after it released and only subsumed 2 abilities I wanted and basically forgot about it until recently etc. 

The game is a playground for me to participate in anything whenever I want simply because it's there. I think the content is fine as-is.

 

[Iccotak]

22 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It would be cool to see the ideas DE has scrawled about on paper and saved to a bunch of word docs. Chances are, they are far more ambitious and creative than anything any of us armchair devs come up with in our spare time browsing the forum. Problem is, fantasizing about ideas and implementing them are two very different things. Many people seem to not understand that. Sometimes that awesome perfect idea you have to solve all of the games problems actually create a ton more, so compromises have to be made. Sometimes nebulous concepts like "create awesome Endgame" "connect all islands" "balance all weapons and abilities" becomes a much bigger challenge when you have to build it starting with step 1, then step 2, step 2, and so on.  

yeah, so i doubt the devs read the forums and go "Eureka!! why didnt i think about that? we just need connect content islands and make everything mean something!! What a genius post!"

Forums is used for Feedback, Player gives feedback and thoughts on the game

Response; "Stop being an armchair developer, DE is more creative than you and knows better!" 

Missing the point of the forums entirely - and way to go on dismissing or belittling their opinion rather than a valid counterpoint. 

Seriously, knock it off with the Gatekeeping.

21 hours ago, OniDax said:

The OP is not being an armchair developer just because, out of passion for the game, they have some ideas for making the game better. Stop trying to discredit any suggestion just because someone had an idea. There is nothing wrong with expressing ideas about the game and how a player thinks it can be better. Stop the metacomplaining. Your comment is not constructive and adds nothing to this post or to this community. It's one thing to do like Madurai-Prime and say that you actually think the game is connected. But to basically decry someone expressing their ideas for the game and label them as armchair developers is not constructive. It's an attempt to stifle discussion. If you have a problem with certain points the OP has made, or if you have a counterargument, then make that point. But don't bash the OP simply because he/she has ideas.

THIS 100%

[Hypernaut1]

35 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Some people legitimately said they were being forced to participate in liches because the weapons had mastery though. If simply adding something to the game with mastery is forced content then why is that person even playing. Mastery isn't new, every weapon and frame has mastery tied to it, so the very act of leveling Volt, Excal, or mag at the beginning of the game is forced content and everything afterwards. 

I propose a new buzzword called "content buffet". This implies the game is simply something that people of different play types can engage in whenever they want. 

I never felt forced to do many things in the game. I started liches 2 weeks ago, got my Helminth 2 months after it released and only subsumed 2 abilities I wanted and basically forgot about it until recently etc. 

The game is a playground for me to participate in anything whenever I want simply because it's there. I think the content is fine as-is.

 

I was legit confused that players saying they hated everything about liches were already on their 15th weapon, while I was loving liches and barely on my 3rd. 

I think people use the mastery argument to try to hold DE hostage. "If you dare add mastery, then make sure I like it or I'll say you are forcing me to play"

 

 

[Hypernaut1]

9 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Forums is used for Feedback, Player gives feedback and thoughts on the game

Response; "Stop being an armchair developer, DE is more creative than you and knows better!" 

Missing the point of the forums entirely - and way to go on dismissing or belittling their opinion rather than a valid counterpoint. 

Seriously, knock it off with the Gatekeeping.

THIS 100%

So you respond to my response by gatekeeping responses?? I don't recall ever addressing anyone specifically and I'm talking about the game. Your not even on topic

My point is things are harder to implement than it seems. It's easy to say "make this interesting". There's lots of steps to that. 

I'm just saying that I'm sure DE isnt bereft of ideas, it's just that great ideas are harder to implement than people think. 

[Zimzala]

1 hour ago, Iccotak said:

Forums is used for Feedback, Player gives feedback and thoughts on the game

Response; "Stop being an armchair developer, DE is more creative than you and knows better!" 

Missing the point of the forums entirely - and way to go on dismissing or belittling their opinion rather than a valid counterpoint. 

Seriously, knock it off with the Gatekeeping.

I think many here miss the point of forums entirely...the forums exist simply to give players that think they know better an outlet.

I have talked directly to game developers about this. Like it or not, forums are here for the player-base to vent and in the end, that's it.

All those great ideas players think they gave the company and got implemented? These were already in the pipeline, etc.

Does the occasional forum post or thread give a developer a better idea to implement something in the pipeline, sure, inspiration comes form many places.

But based on the data I have been able to get 'from the horses mouth' as it were and IME, forums exist solely to allow the consumer to think they are engaged with the game maker and therefore are made to 'feel' like they 'make a difference.'

To be clear, I totally agree with the fact that DE and most game developers have far better and more well though out ideas and designs that the army armchair developers do anyway and that players who think they know better are fun to watch, so, by all means, if it makes you happy to share your thoughts, please, keep it up, personal happiness is important.

But if you think these forums really make a difference other than as a general swag toward what the player base is 'on about' today, then I think you might be mistaken

[OniDax]

7 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

I think many here miss the point of forums entirely...the forums exist simply to give players that think they know better an outlet.

I have talked directly to game developers about this. Like it or not, forums are here for the player-base to vent and in the end, that's it.

All those great ideas players think they gave the company and got implemented? These were already in the pipeline, etc.

Does the occasional forum post or thread give a developer a better idea to implement something in the pipeline, sure, inspiration comes form many places.

But based on the data I have been able to get 'from the horses mouth' as it were and IME, forums exist solely to allow the consumer to think they are engaged with the game maker and therefore are made to 'feel' like they 'make a difference.'

To be clear, I totally agree with the fact that DE and most game developers have far better and more well though out ideas and designs that the army armchair developers do anyway and that players who think they know better are fun to watch, so, by all means, if it makes you happy to share your thoughts, please, keep it up, personal happiness is important.

But if you think these forums really make a difference other than as a general swag toward what the player base is 'on about' today, then I think you might be mistaken

So you just want DE to remove the forums then? Whether DE listens or not, they set up these forums for players to discuss the game and share ideas. It's not your place or Hypernaut1's to demean the people who do so. Your doing that is against the forum rules.

[Joezone619]

Yeah we're just getting a little off topic here, my point here is that warframe should stop looking for whats next, and start looking at whats already here, theres a lot of stuff, but most of it needs work, and touch ups to bring them on par with the newer stuff.

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Joezone619 said:

Yeah we're just getting a little off topic here, my point here is that warframe should stop looking for whats next, and start looking at whats already here, theres a lot of stuff, but most of it needs work, and touch ups to bring them on par with the newer stuff.

So just the refrain of "I want the company to focus on the stuff I want", then, yes?

While I am sure DE agrees that much work can be done to make the game better, it is kind of what they do for a living, even if there are people that don't like what they produce.

Every GaaS game ever made has players that want 'old stuff' to look and feel like 'new stuff', this is nothing new, innovative, or interesting.

There is no endless pool of resources to to do things.

If DE stops making new stuff and fixes old stuff, players lose their minds

If DE stops fixing old stuff and makes entirely new stuff, players lose their minds.

These days with the fickle, often hateful, state of the gaming community, I often wonder why any game company bothers to even interact with the player base, much less even bothering to make games..."here, I made this, hope you enjoy it"..."it's not enough, it's not perfect, it gave me cancer" (from a recent video on Reddit).

So sure, the game could be better...duh...it's made by humans...