Iso Vaults Mechs after Arcana (console)

[(PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg]

I'll preface with - about 2-3 weeks ago I decided to start attempting those bounties. After some struggle with Protea - killing mechs between 2 to 20 minutes and never reaching T3 (her abilties didn't do dmg on mechs), but ultimately exploring and learning the whole thing in the process, I turned to my good old Gara. Her 2 was doing dmg she gave me protection and you can control the pace. I made up a game of it to try to keep the shield up and increasing the dmg through out all 3 bounties. This helped me to digest the rather long and boring repetition of same 3 mission, but with more enemies that are higher levels. I could finish it solo withint 20-25 minutes (with no Loid bonus phases). It was ok.

After the recent update a day/two ago, I decided to check the new stuff. Loaded my Gara and went on a hunt. To my (not such a big) surprise I find out that her 2 no more damges or if it does it's not noticeable on mechs anymore. Ok I said, I'll just keep up the shield and get higher numbers through the course. Nope no effect. After T2 I found out it take me almost double the time to what it use to before.

That wasn't all though. The cherry on top was when I picked T3 and went ahead it turned out I am facing new mechs (even if I selected old quest?). Ok I said, let's see what they do. Obviously Gara's 2 still did nothing, but guess what? Now it doesn't even give you protection as well. Bone Widow slaps you 2-3 times and you dead. Dear devs, is it not enough that we have to kill things with tiny hitboxes that twist and turn non-stop and not everything is good vs them? Is it not enough that we can't rely on operators as abilties on wf's get cancled right away or transferance in general? It's tough enough, it's annoying enough not to be exciting or fun - you remove options you yourself allowed us access to.

At this moment I sat there and started thinking in attempt to withhold my anger, salt, displeaure, disgust.

It wasn't enough that due to this new balance I couldn't depend on my frame anymore, my weapons run out of ammo and I was helplessly left hacking pointlessly with little dmg so I can progress to T3. My acquired knowledge, experience was shat upon. It wasn't enough that you developers destroyed a viable different way of playstyle or aproach to a situation. I did find satisfaction in my mini game of keeping my shield through all vaults. It give me a goal, a purpose, felt like I was improving and moving faster through huge slog of missions. Now it's not viable anymore.

At this moment I also felt and understood (like really well!) why some veterans are displeased with DE's design and balancing attempts. It felt like my arms were twisted behind my back, got kicked in the nuts and told to eat that D.

You should play the way we want you to play, you shouldn't look for your desired playstyle (I am aware that other popular options when Deimos launched are not more possible as well - be that using Octavia, Stropha or what not, soon Banshee silence too?). It clearly speaks how future content is gonna be and what the set goals aim to achieve.

Is a video game suppouse to provoke negative emotions in me? Where is the blur between making it fun, but still hard to achieve and feel like it's worth the grind? Warframe is walking on the edge with all this economy issues and constant punish if there are other ways to situations (that are not broken/cheats). Would I understand a nerf to this perculiar case - let's say shield dmg is less effective, sure. Can I agree with completely removing the option? No.

It insults me as a player.

Thanks.

p.s. spare me sarcasms and pointless cry posts - they don't affect me. You'll come to a day where you'll be in similar situations - maybe not in wf - and you will know. I think I expressed myself clear enough with detailed explaination so you can put yourself in my shoes (sure, not everyone can do it, but just try).

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

Before Arcana, I did my iso vault farming using Octavia - shamelessly abusing the the "throw out your 1 and watch the mech kill itself" strategy. My understanding is that such strategies have been heavily nerfed, which is annoying for the players who used them but ultimately good for the game (there should be something in-game that doesn't die from you pressing 1 button)

When the console update dropped 2 days ago, I started going for Arcana bounties and therefore had to fight through the iso vaults again. What I noticed was that while the 1-button strategies have been nerfed, fighting them "the classic way" (kite and shoot) has actually become easier. The strategy is to just kite the mech into a bunch of infested and them to shoot it from far away with a big gun while the mech is killing said infested (I bring an Imperator Vandal for that).

Of the two mech types, I actually find Bonewidow to be easier to fight: it seems much more likely to try and charge me (jump away, watch it crash into a wall, shoot it in the back). Also, Voidrigs don't seem to be spamming Storm Shroud as much - which makes fighting them much less anoying

 

[Duality52]

It's worth mentioning that the hostile Voidrig's Storm Shroud will no longer reflect damage nor will provide damage invulnerability. It just provides damage resistance. I'm not sure if Console got the fix where the hostile Bonewidow's shields don't reflect damage back at you guys.

One thing I cannot deny is the inconsistency: why can't the hostile Necramechs take damage from anywhere else like our own Necramechs other than their arms and rear engine? I would've given them the Nox/Deimos Saxum treatment: make their whole body vulnerable to damage but reduced. Disarming their arms will make them more vulnerable while striking their rear engines will deal more damage than frontal brute force. Additionally, I would remove their ability to nullify our Operator and Transference usage. I don't understand how they are able to do that., nor is it fun to deal with.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg said:

Obviously Gara's 2 still did nothing, but guess what? Now it doesn't even give you protection as well. Bone Widow slaps you 2-3 times and you dead. Dear devs, is it not enough that we have to kill things with tiny hitboxes that twist and turn non-stop and not everything is good vs them?

Still, another thing I would like to point out is that even with the damage reflection/immunity removed from the hostile Voidrig (Bonewidow's shield not sure again), you are relying on bad habits the game more or less encourage: stand in the open and try to brute force it. I can't blame you since the game encourages these habits due to the grinding nature of the game, but hostile Necramechs were designed to punish players relying on these habits.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

4 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

It's worth mentioning that the hostile Voidrig's Storm Shroud will no longer reflect damage nor will provide damage invulnerability.

Missed that in the update notes. But it would explain what I'm seeing in-game quite nicely

5 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

damage reflection/immunity removed from the hostile Voidrig (Bonewidow's shield not sure again)

I think the shield might still be reflecting something. I usually aim for the shoulders (shooting of arms seems to expose them as weak points), but I did get 1-shot a few times for no apparent reason - my aim must have drifted towards the shield. I haven't figured out Bonewidow's powers properly yet: I usually do that while levelling, and she's still 2 days away from finishing building.

[DLOArceus]

Use your Voidrig Necramech. "But i don't have it". Then build it. "But i need Necramech parts". Then buy them for players, a whole set is 10 plat. "But i need Orokin Matrixes to level up the syndicate" then stop playing a multiplayer game solo when you are clearly too underpowered to do so. Also Glaives are relatively ok in fighting them provided you keep your distance at all times.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb DLOArceus:

Use your Voidrig Necramech. "But i don't have it". Then build it. "But i need Necramech parts". Then buy them for players, a whole set is 10 plat. "But i need Orokin Matrixes to level up the syndicate" then stop playing a multiplayer game solo when you are clearly too underpowered to do so. Also Glaives are relatively ok in fighting them provided you keep your distance at all times.

yes, voidrig is great. all 3 are dead in a few seconds.
with silence skill they hardly do any harm. or play in a group.
Of course there are also more options.

[(PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg]

I wouldn't call keeping your shield and dmg up through 3 bounties with gara 1 button press win...

The fight with the multiple Bone Widows wasn't me standing in one place, especially after the fact the thing that supouse to protect you vs some dmg isn't working anymore... I started moving, but they chase crazy as you know. Headbuts seems to connect almost always due to cheap tricks where if you are locked within the animation you getting hit even if you visually are out of danger or attempt dodge.

After I found out it's gonna be pointless and futile attempt, coupled with all the other "surprising", sneak/stealth #*!% you changes to Gara - not mentioned even in the notes - speaking even further to such scummy moves - I decided not to bother. There are limits to stuff you impose on your customers with moves like this. They hit mine, and Deimos will stay out of my playground for now.

What warranted this removal of options is the bigger question? Was completing 3 bounties in 20+ minutes - 30-35 with each Loid bonus mission too fast????? What was wrong? Why should I accept something that wasn't broken or required some adjustment had to be gutted entirely?

 

Arrogant and know it all comment like this DLOArceus fella, fall flat on it's butt, cause they fail to assume correctly and deducing the problem, and are even wrong on the predictions... I have Mech built... But uh, well, duh... uh. Yeah, buddy, I did mention to spare me bullS#&$ comments. I welcome suggestion to aproaches of the fight, but this wasn't the main goal when I made this thread. Obviously you also forget about people that don't have the freedom, or are limited to certain amount of centent. Why would you even consider this low lifes, right?

Missing the point is your problem though. What if suddenly "god" decides his/her children shouldn't use the power of the Mech to fight other mechs anymore. What if it so happens that's nerfed under the radar and it was your deisred way to play and finish the bounties? Can you understand then? Pick other favourite style and remove it completely!

The game have 43 or 44 frames with plenty of abilities and optoins and hundreds of weapons. What if everything is tunneled visioned and tailored towards just 2-3 with other 2-3 options? Is this a good thing?

Having different options, different playstyles, or aproach to situations is what enriches the experience of each individual player. Having predatory limited aproach that preys upon the constant desire to acquire/greedines of players and tries to cheat em is toxic.

 

[Monolake]

Mechs are super easy now, you can insta kill them with Valk https://streamable.com/q9q171

or with kuva nukor, or with many other things

Just don't be afraid to experiment and try different things to find what works best, same goes for any mission.

 

[(PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg]

On 2020-12-13 at 5:52 AM, Monolake said:

Mechs are super easy now, you can insta kill them with Valk https://streamable.com/q9q171

or with kuva nukor, or with many other things

Just don't be afraid to experiment and try different things to find what works best, same goes for any mission.

 

Nice, not familiar with Valk yet. Do you look forward to getting that stuff balanced next hotfix/patch/update/content?

Kuva is not bad, insta kill is false. My experience with it was inconsistent.

I did so, and found my groove. My groove was #*!%ked with no explanation. I would've also loved to experiments if it didn't include 2 (3) loading screens and a couple of phases to reach a mech (kept forgettting to see if there is scan entry for them) so let's say about 8-10 minutes. Alas, I am not touching Deimos as mentioned anytime soon.

 

Here's a thread that discusses how to beat mechs after arcana. I see times similar to what I was achieving - meaning nothing abnormal, within 25 minutes. Looking forward to all those aproaches getting stealth balanced. It's just only fair, right?

 

[DrivaMain]

You can still use Octavia. You just need to take out both arms first.

[Monolake]

6 hours ago, (PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg said:

Do you look forward to getting that stuff balanced next hotfix/patch/update/content?

 Looking forward to all those aproaches getting stealth balanced. It's just only fair, right?

 

I wouldn't care because for one thing nerfed there are 10 others that work.

And ultimately fighting boss enemies should rely on skill, not on cheese. But DE doesn't balance, they dont even know their own game enough to do it.

 

Quote

I would've also loved to experiments if it didn't include 2 (3) loading screens and a couple of phases to reach a mech (kept forgettting to see if there is scan entry for them) so let's say about 8-10 minutes

Yeah totally on board with you there - the wait-wall parts are the worst, they are no fun, they don't offer gameplay, they dont rely on player skill or knowledge of the game to be beaten quicker. I literally go to the kitchen to make some tea while the 'bait is cooking'. It's inexcusably bad design.

I'd rather have more mech combat and no wait-walls.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

They nerfed nearly every single strat that people used to make this fight bearable as well as quick.  You want it to be quick because while they did heavy changes to make sure that the mechs were harder to kill, they didn't address the atrocious, awful, downright greedy mech mod drop chances, so you want to go through as many of them as quickly as you can since the rare mech mods have a drop chance closer to 0% than 1%.  Literally.  

They also addressed nearly none of player's complaints about fighting necramechs, like their ability to just pivot to follow you constantly so that you can't damage their rear weakpoint, and the fact that they, for zero reason, just get to shut off your ability to use your operator at will at long range.  So you can't even dash behind them to have a hope at hitting them without going through the "intended" fight cycles.  Of course the intended way to fight them, using the very minor stagger that mechs get on some actions to get behind them for like .4 seconds, isn't telegraphed or explained in the slightest, and also isn't a viable strategy for a fight that you have to do literally thousands of times if you want to get the rare mods.  Considering the fights are not fun to most people, those mods are the only reason to fight the mechs to start with.

They made them worse, which seems to be the only thing they know how to do these days.  They damn sure didn't put out any actual good content in the last two patches (okay, outside of Xaku and the concept of Helminth.  Helminth is still lacking though.) and there's loads of bugs that they pretty much refuse to address that completely wreck console player's ability to even attempt the long runs on these vaults that they expect. 

They can't even be consistent with their BS. 

"We don't want players to have to do long runs." 

*puts in the most convoluted, tedious bounty system they can requiring you to do long runs so that you can run a vault to run a vault to run the vault you actually wanted to do*

It's BS, and it's laughable that they think any of this is okay.  They felt the need to apologize for how they released and then handled Liches and Railjack and yet they doubled down on all their BS for Deimos.  I'd bet a pretty penny that they learned absolutely nothing from apologizing for how garbage Liches were and kind of still are and put out a copy/paste Corpus Lich system with all the same issues that people still complain about.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

16 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

they didn't address the atrocious, awful, downright greedy mech mod drop chances

The mods are now all dropping from Arcana Bounties. While their drop rates from necramechs are indeed atrocious, their drop chances from Arcana Bounties are fairly reasonable.

16 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

*puts in the most convoluted, tedious bounty system they can requiring you to do long runs so that you can run a vault to run a vault to run the vault you actually wanted to do*

While there is indeed a "what were they thinking?" argument here, this part is getting fixed (see the latest update notes for PC, us console players will probably get those changes in January). The Iso vaults and Arcana bounties will be separated, you'll just need to go to the correct Mother to start the mission of the tier you want. I'm not sure how they are imagining matchmaking for these, but we'll just have to use recruiting chat (or go solo).

16 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

They nerfed nearly every single strat that people used to make this fight bearable as well as quick.

While they did nerf all the cheesy strategies for fighting mechs (Octavia, Nyx, etc.), they did buff one very useful strategy for dealing with them: grabbing a big gun and shooting them (removed damage reflection, stopped voidrigs spamming shroud as much). The way I see it, this actually made the fights better: you are no longer incentivised to to use very specific "mech killer" loadouts and you have more freedom to use other things depending on your preferences.

16 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Of course the intended way to fight them, using the very minor stagger that mechs get on some actions to get behind them for like .4 seconds, isn't telegraphed or explained in the slightest,

Shooting the arms off exposes weak points on their shoulders. You can shoot those even if the mech is directly facing you. Or kite the mech into a pile of Infested and go around while they play with each other!

Or if you are in a squad - cooperate! If you get the mech between you, it'll be exposing its back to one of you!

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

8 hours ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

-snip-

Basically everything you said was negated by my, and other console player's, inability to reliably run Arcana bounties due to bugs they introduced a while back that make open worlds very crash happy.  The mods being in bounty tables, all that, all nullified by the crashes because a lot of us can't stay in open worlds for the long runs that were needed for those bounties.  

I was making those complaints before the announcement that they were uncoupling all the vaults.  I know it wasn't me specifically that caused that, but it was player feedback that caused it.  Them uncoupling the vaults from each other fixes the majority of the issues I had with the vaults specifically, and that is the exact reason I bring the negative feedback to the forums.  To get things fixed, because I genuinely enjoy other parts of the game.  I'd like to be able to enjoy these parts as well, they just don't make it easy.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Basically everything you said was negated by my, and other console player's, inability to reliably run Arcana bounties due to bugs they introduced a while back that make open worlds very crash happy.  The mods being in bounty tables, all that, all nullified by the crashes because a lot of us can't stay in open worlds for the long runs that were needed for those bounties.  

If you looked at my profile name, you would notice that I'm also a console player. So I too know all the bugs you are talking about. However, I seem to be perfectly able to run Arcana bounties (most of the time, taking certain precautions). Just over the last week, I've done multiple 2+hr session in the Cambion Drift running Arcana bounties (quite reliably). So it seems that the problem is on your end here.

13 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I was making those complaints before the announcement that they were uncoupling all the vaults

You made the complaints I quoted on Monday. While this was before DE announced the details of the uncoupling, it was long after they officially said that the vaults are about to be uncoupled.

[(PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg]

On 2020-12-14 at 8:13 PM, Monolake said:

I wouldn't care because for one thing nerfed there are 10 others that work.

And ultimately fighting boss enemies should rely on skill, not on cheese. But DE doesn't balance, they dont even know their own game enough to do it.

I am here to tell you should :) (in the most friendlier manner).

Glad you mentioned cheese. Do you think I was cheesing in my under 10 attempts with Gara? Think you throw the word without much consideration. In those tries I believe there was one case where I managed to beeat 3 mechs in a minute (overall finish still above 20 minutes) - that happened mostly because I managed to keep my shield through all the 3 vaults and damage was above 500k at that time - somewhat reasonable pay off, no (not to mention there seemed to be a cap on purpose or it was bug where shield would disappear with plenty of seconds left)?

For example I had another case where I literally droppd shield and had to fight 2 mechs - it take longer obviously - 2-3-4 minutes, and I forget to mention that, but even Voidrigs can dmg and kill you with shield up... So it wasn't a cake walk. It wasn't 1 button press win. Very far from cheese and very obviously wasn't unintended... If it was it was gonna be mentioned by now instead of a dirty stealth change. I said in my first post I would've even take adjustment or some tweaks, but to remove a playstyle, no.

 

I can't understand how people that play the game welcome willingly wrong limitation with such a large and varied game just because... It's a crime.

 

TehChubbyDugan - I can feel ya, but I try to stay as objective as I can. Even if I show some emotions it's mostly so eventual readers understand how it hit me on that case. Otherwise stictly on topic.

The mechs other bosses and in general fights with tiny weakspot suffer a lot to movement animation and how twitchy/jerky they are. Looks to be a long time "problem".

Long missions really ain't where WF shines most for sure. Then there are those people that think DE needs to nerf us so they can make a challenge for us... How such a fundamentally flaw logic is accepted is beyond me, but that's what we witness. Why do people enjoy or can do multiple fast missions? Because there is charm in them (its more compliated). You are not obliged or confined to the same place/acts for long. You can race with fellow team mates and make it game of it's own - who is gonna get the target, who is gonna reach end first, who's is gonna rescue/sabotage, kills on defenses or survivals, perfect spy - there lies excitement becaues besides the regular things you can find/make up your goals and fun. Similar to (some) boss situations. Let's take latest reworked Jackal. There is game within the game with team mates again. Who is gonna parazon first, who's gonna get clipped by the rotating lasers, how fast can you finish do the boss etc. There is a solid base for replayability that can be done multiple times before it really gets a chore (if you overdo).

Where do Iso bounties stand in this department? Most people that do them I feel they do it for the - yeh, guess why - for the rewards. I know - because in this world everyone can enjoy even the S#&$iest thing in the world - there dudes that prolly find em the best thing ever. Trully though, where they rank at? Long missions, same type - literally - do em 3 times. Waiting/defending/clear with time limit objectives. A boss to fu0ck us all because we "need to be nerfed" or challenged. I mean, do you see how many people are challenged right? To the point most don't bother - cause it ain't fun. Cause very clearly the identity of what the playground and core fun of WF's is so very stubbornly avoided, instead of been embraced. That went a bit long and clearly is was for another thread (pls don't read I want only this, this and this type of missions objectives, I like variety, but to have a new gameplay loop that is enjoyable looks to be hard to achieve...).

 

btw at least we can do/pick different Iso tiers bounties instead of run em all - still not returning to Deimos, but nice change.

 

 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

12 hours ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

So it seems that the problem is on your end here.

This is such a tired and stupid argument.  Yeah, it's somehow my fault that this game and only this game hard crashes for me on only the Vallis and Drift, and only started doing it after a certain update.  Couldn't be DE, gotta be my fault somehow.

 

12 hours ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

it was long after they officially said that the vaults are about to be uncoupled.

I don't know where that would have been, because I didn't see it posted anywhere.  Assuming it was posted somewhere official (I'm not going to religiously follow every single tweet made by these people.) like the forums, it's still a moot point because I'm giving feedback on the update as I have it.  Heaven forbid I not scour the PC patch notes to see if an issue that console has is going to get fixed some time next year.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

This is such a tired and stupid argument.  Yeah, it's somehow my fault that this game and only this game hard crashes for me on only the Vallis and Drift, and only started doing it after a certain update.  Couldn't be DE, gotta be my fault somehow.

If other players (both PC and console) are playing those zones just fine, then it seems that the problem is much more localised than you are trying to claim. At the very least, we know that those zones "hard crash" the game only for a minority of players (otherwise there would have been many more threads about it - and they would have been much larger).

So "playing Valis or Drift after a certain update" looks like a necessary but not a sufficient condition for getting that crash. Thus one should ask: what else is happening? And the setup of the players experiencing that problem (yours) is something well worth investigating.

Can I definitively say that the problem is with your configuration? No. But it really sounds like it might be.

14 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I don't know where that would have been, because I didn't see it posted anywhere.  Assuming it was posted somewhere official (I'm not going to religiously follow every single tweet made by these people.) like the forums

It was mentioned multiple times during their streams - with DE, that seems to be as official as it gets (outside of update notes)

 

14 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

it's still a moot point because I'm giving feedback on the update as I have it.  Heaven forbid I not scour the PC patch notes to see if an issue that console has is going to get fixed some time next year.

The update DE released was not perfect. Nothing in this world is. But we know that the fixes for the biggest gripes of this update are coming in the next one (probably in January) - and that's pretty reasonable. At the end of the day, there was a choice: to release this update now or to hold it back until January (when it would come together with that fix). In this particular case, I agree with the choice DE made. If you would have preferred the update to be released (with the fix) in January - you can just not farm any of the Arcana content until then.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

1 hour ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

If other players (both PC and console) are playing those zones just fine

There are plenty of other players not playing those zones just fine.  And a lot of those players have written off open worlds to the point where they don't care that they crash because they hate them anyway.  The crashing just cements this.  Also, I haven't ever seen a single person that I play with on these forums or anyone from these forums in-game, so it's not like the population of these forums (and those bug threads) is a perfect mirror for what's happening to players in-game.  You say it is "probably" my set up.  I have an Xbox One.  It's the same as any other standard Xbox One.  It's not all that old and is dust-free and works completely fine for binge-game sessions in many other large games.  No hard crashes.  One of my alliance mates has the crashes on these open worlds on a next gen console.  It's not a performance issue.  I have great internet, and even if it was that, the game being so poorly coded that a network issue could lock up the game itself and crash me to home screen is absurd.  The Vallis used to run flawlessly for me.  I spent a very long time farming in Fortuna when it first dropped, in a squad, no crashes.  These crashes popped up for me and everyone else around the same time, right after an update sometime last year.  This is not me.  This cannot be me.  This is entirely on DE.  Zero evidence supports this being anything to do with it being my fault in any way shape or form.  All you have is your anecdote that "most" people aren't experiencing this vs my anecdote of always crashing, and watching others crash, and watching people in my alliance talk about crashing in these places.  Even if "most" people aren't experiencing this problem, does not make it my fault at all.  It's not like I can screw up my graphics card settings or mess around in my game files.  I don't have anything to do with the game's code.  So no, it really doesn't sound like it might be on my end.

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

during their streams

Never saw it on the dev streams, and I'm pretty sure I've seen most of those.  As far as the community streams, I'm not going to sit and watch every single one of those, especially since I'm not home for a single one of them.  Where exactly have they mentioned it?  Because them mentioning it once at like 2pm on a Monday doesn't mean squat to me.

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

The update DE released was not perfect

It was not.  And the negative feedback that people leave in these forums is why they're addressing those things and why I'm going to keep leaving it, regardless of how you feel about it.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Also, I haven't ever seen a single person that I play with on these forums or anyone from these forums in-game, so it's not like the population of these forums (and those bug threads) is a perfect mirror for what's happening to players in-game.

If a bug is to be fixed, it needs to first be reported. If people whine abstractly about "bugs" but don't report anything concrete, those bugs will never be fixed. If you want a specific bug to be fixed, you need to make sure it is reported in a relevant thread, and to ensure that that thread contains enough details for that bug to be reproduced. If some people you know are crying about bugs among each other but don't do anything to report them - they are clearly missing the point. You should introduce them to the bugreport sections of these forums.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I have an Xbox One.  It's the same as any other standard Xbox One.  It's not all that old and is dust-free and works completely fine for binge-game sessions in many other large games.

How much free space does your "standard Xbox One" have? what is the health of its RAM (this can deteriorate over time)? What is the health of its hard drive (bad sectors, etc)? What is the quality of your internet connection to DE's servers and to your squad's host? What is the condition of your host's Xbox and internet connection? What about other players in your squad? The reality is that all of these can influence the game's performance. Consoles are indeed much more standardised than PCs, but, in reality, each and every one is a bit different - especially if they are not brand new.

I'm not saying that DE's game engine and netcode are perfect. It is not and I have plenty of qualms about them. I'm just saying that sometimes it's not the root of all of the issues.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Never saw it on the dev streams, and I'm pretty sure I've seen most of those.  As far as the community streams, I'm not going to sit and watch every single one of those, especially since I'm not home for a single one of them.  Where exactly have they mentioned it?  Because them mentioning it once at like 2pm on a Monday doesn't mean squat to me.

Then you will miss a lot of information DE put out - since that's the medium they use. And before posting angry essays on any given topic, it might be a good idea to look into it a bit. Search functionality is your friend for that.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

And the negative feedback that people leave in these forums is why they're addressing those things and why I'm going to keep leaving it, regardless of how you feel about it.

By all means, feedback needs to be left - both positive and negative. But for the feedback to be useful, it needs to be specific and constructive.

"They don't let me cheese the bosses any more" is not constructive feedback - since it's something that's been done deliberately, specifically to make the boss fights an actual fight, not just pressing 1 button.

"Cambion Drift is buggy" is also not constructive feedback. You'd need to indicate what exactly those bugs are and how exactly they are triggered. "I played Cambion Drift and the game crashed" does nothing to help people reproduce or fix any of the bugs.

Had you been writing specific and constructive feedback - I'd be completely on your side. But you're not. And all you are currently achieving is drowning out actually actionable feedback, making sure it does not reach the developers.

[(PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg]

6 hours ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

"They don't let me cheese the bosses any more" is not constructive feedback - since it's something that's been done deliberately, specifically to make the boss fights an actual fight, not just pressing 1 button.

If this is a jab at my thread, you also lack an importan ability in reading carefully and with understanding (I know my english ain't that great, but still).

I did explain multiple times with good points what I did, how I did it and nothing of those is cheese. Cheesers don't care about the stuff I talk, they would jump to the next best thing without a second thought.

Let me help ya with a term definition:

"A term coined by RTS gamers when a player uses non ordinary measures, often considered cheap tactics, to win the game early."

Kindly point out which of the 3 was I, uhmmmm, exploiting?

Some folks really like to turn blind eye, huh. Also you two are discussing other things more attune to new thread/s.

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

12 hours ago, (PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg said:

If this is a jab at my thread, you also lack an importan ability in reading carefully and with understanding (I know my english ain't that great, but still).

You seem to be, in turn, lacking the important ability to check whose words I was quoting and therefore replying to. I was referring to the Xbox guy's comments that he couldn't beat the vault necramechs because DE disabled all the ways to beat them with a single button press and they were "impossible" to beat with normal measures (kite and shoot).

As for what you were talking about in your post - you seem to be talking about speedrunning attempts, and that is simply not an area of gaming I care about. However:

12 hours ago, (PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg said:

Let me help ya with a term definition:

"A term coined by RTS gamers when a player uses non ordinary measures, often considered cheap tactics, to win the game early."

One could claim that what you described in your post was you "using non ordinary measures" (keeping Gara's shield up between vaults) "to win the game (mission) early" (aiming for 10 minutes). Whether or not those tactics can be considered "cheap" is a subjective matter (I don't play Gara, so can't really comment) - but the definition does not fully require them to be "cheap tactics" either. So the tactics you've described seem to fit squarely under your definition. You might want to be more careful next time you provide one to dispute something. A source for the definition would also be appreciated.

[(PSN)f_r_e_e_b_i_e_bg]

Look I don't want to argue and getting in conflicts, sure dude was complaining about way of defeating mechs fast that were "fixed". I don't see him/her complaining about 1 button wins vs mehcs. That was another dude, that clearly was trying to insinuate that's what I was doing. Let's close this case. Not trying to pick or chose sides, trying to be objective here.

I did sort of attempted to speed run I guess, not literal just casual - as I said I spent enough time to learn the ins and outs with a frame that didn't peform great vs mechs. After that it's just you finding some fun in stuff that isn't actual goal for the bounties. Both keeping the shield and trying to be fast were my way of breaking the chore and keeping it exciting, was natural to me.

It's a term that sprang (if my old memory is right) around StarCraft it might have been there before, but largely populated by that game. Also fun-fact - despite how it looks in peoples eyes today - meaning mostly having negative connotation - usually a top SC players always have/had a cheese tactic up their sleeves. It is viewed mostly in negative light cause when you do rank/1v1 someone and people put less effort to beat ya, it feels cheap. In this case there ain't 1v1 in WF's case, the 1v1 is customers/players vs developers :) - with which we know what the outcome usually is.

You can spin stuff around however you like using the definition, I know people like to do that. I said that I was ok if it was even nerfed in way that didn't remove the playstyle. What's fundamentally wrong with you trying to play and use mechanics the game itself allows for god's sake... So in your head keeping shield is non-ordinary measure? 20+ minutes to clear 3 vaults not 10, be precise please (what was killed fast were the mechs). Look the thread were people discuss beating mechs, that's what seems to be the overall average for decent paced runs. I don't see how it's possible to go under 16-7min. - bare in mind I lose (in my case) every 20-25 seconds of time to cast 4 and break it with 1 (you know the 1 button press win...). The only thing you can get me for is prolly "cheap tactics", that can be widely disputed. What's cheap and what's not. If trying to be efficient and fast is cheap, so be it... I didn't want to spent 1h fighting chore, how foul of me. Still good attempt, I was expecting that :). Let's see where you gonna lump me next, cheater (irony/sarcasm, don't get baited)?