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Nezha's Chakram needs a TON of work


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Some issues with Nezha's Chakram....


1. Its ridiculously hard to aim.  It only works if the reticle changes to RED, and getting it to do that requires pinpoint accuracy.  In the middle of a hefty fire-fight that simply takes too long.  With a shotgun for example - and most guns to be honest - you can sweep across or get close and you will do damage.  With the Chakram its all or nothing.  
FIX:  (in case DE reads this) Give the Chakram a MUCH wider AoE when thrown.  Passing By An Enemy should be just as good as a direct hit.  
I would then use Chakram about 1000x more.  
OR give the Chakram an Auto Hit on enemies within a cone... which BTW would make an awesome visual.

2. The damage it does is not significant.  I have a 200% Strength Nezha build, and as soon as the enemies get above level 60, one-hit from the Chakram when they are Speared (Divine Spears) only takes away a portion of their health.  By the time you do a second throw you could have painted those same targets in bullets and ended them MUCH faster.  Using the Chakram without Spears is truly pointless.... almost ALL weapons do more damage and are easier to use.

3. The bounce mechanic is useless outside of Spears.  There is no Auto-Hit other than using the Chakram on Speared folk.  I must be honest DE - trying to get a bounce-hit ON PURPOSE with the Chakram is such a miniscule chance of success that I can Honestly Say that in five years of playing warframe and all the people I have met, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON EVER has suggested using Chakram to get enemies by way of throwing it raw and "Hoping" for it to bounce onto others.  Not One.

4.  The Debuff on enemies from Chakram is great, but again getting to the hit where it takes effect is too time consuming and other abilities & weapons could have already done the job.  Yes I am talking a few seconds, but that is a looonng few seconds in the middle of a heavy firefight.

5.  Using Chakram to teleport-BLAST is too complicated and takes too many buttons in-sequence and requires you "magically" land at your intended spot (Um NOT Gonna Happen EVER... best you can get is roughly in the same Quadrant of the map.... NOBODY lands their Chakram teleport exactly where they want).  Again, the amount of time and effort required is too much / too complicated, and the same effect could have been achieved MUCH faster with good weapons.

6.  Chakram Teleport in general is utterly broken unless you are traveling a vast distance.  For quick teleport across a room its utterly useless as the Chakram returns too fast and you end up "teleporting" a mere meter or so from where you started.  Its only "usefull" when you are teleporting across a valley or the like, and even then you need a long press to activate the "straight shot" plus you have to WAIT for the timing.  That is a LOT of time and energy when you could have simply been in-motion bullet jumping to the same destination.... and your bullet jumps will land you EXACTLY where you want, as opposed to "roughly somewhere nearby."

I DO love the IDEA of the Chakram (not the least of which because its is accurate to the character from the stories, and Nezha is a GREAT character!), and especially when used in combo with your 4th (Spears) where it makes Auto-Hit copies of itself to decimate the 'Speared'.... which unfortunately also only works well when the enemies are at LOW levels.  

But since I prefer high level games it - again - becomes a multiple-use tactic, and during that time you are immobile (the Chakram animation is deathly slow) and  you are wasting time when a good weapon could have done a better AND FASTER job.

My two cents.
Thanks for listening. 🙂

Edited by (PSN)BMWWOW
clarity
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Wow, you really don't have much good to say for it.

Personally, I think it only needs somewhat better autotargeting  on the bounce -or- better flight speed.  And really, it's not because I think it's bad, but because I see people get frustrated with it.  Especially people who are new to Nezha and/or the game, which is a shame.

And the charged throw needs something additional besides the extra (theoretical) damage so that it fills a purpose.

And I think that does it, for me.

1 hour ago, (PSN)BMWWOW said:

But since I prefer high level games

It's funny because reading through your comments I was thinking, "This person just needs to use it in higher level content..."  But after getting to that part I don't know what to think. 😛

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Chakram isn't supposed to replace your Weapons, it's primarily there for Utility, that happens to benefit your Weapons to make them better, in actuality.
however, Chakram still ends up doing fairly solid Damage anyways, despite it mainly being there to debuff Enemies for you (and the Teleporting). it Kills stuff just fine.

 

the bouncing is decent on its own, but you literally have an Ability that is dedicated to making it Bounce a ton of times.
basically just like Thrown Melee now, with the introduction of the new Bounce Mods.

that being said, i'd kinda like if Chrakram Multiplied its speed by 1.1x every time it bounced.

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3 hours ago, ShiruBiru said:

ur proly doing something wrong my man, like, after just one chakram i amost onetaped a CHG lvl 175, 12k heat dots. And its pretty good for long runs cuse energy orb fountains from augmentation. Just dont use it outside of 4 tbh.

I DO appreciate the feedback, but I do not ever consider the Simulacrum to even remotely run parallel to an actual game.  The Simulacrum is an idealized environment meant for "getting a feel" but the numbers are never, ever reliable to what actually happens in a mad high level game.  Throwing at a still Simulacrum target has no basis of comparison to trying to hit a single, fast moving target in the middle of an actual in-game firefight.  Again all due respect for the fact that you are trying to help, which I appreciate.  

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2 hours ago, taiiat said:

the bouncing is decent on its own, but you literally have an Ability that is dedicated to making it Bounce a ton of times.
basically just like Thrown Melee now, with the introduction of the new Bounce Mods.

that being said, i'd kinda like if Chrakram Multiplied its speed by 1.1x every time it bounced.

Hmmm... perhaps the long and short is that the Chakram needs to become an Exalted Weapon so it can be modded like Valk's claws or Excal's blade.
What do you think of that idea?  Then you could mod it any way you wanted, including Glaive mods....

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)BMWWOW said:

Hmmm... perhaps the long and short is that the Chakram needs to become an Exalted Weapon so it can be modded like Valk's claws or Excal's blade.
What do you think of that idea?  Then you could mod it any way you wanted, including Glaive mods....

Chakram isn't supposed to replace your Weapons.

why does every damn Warframe have to have a replacement for your Weapons button. Chakram is a support tool, that also happens to do good Damage.

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4 hours ago, (PSN)BMWWOW said:

Hmmm... perhaps the long and short is that the Chakram needs to become an Exalted Weapon so it can be modded like Valk's claws or Excal's blade.
What do you think of that idea?  Then you could mod it any way you wanted, including Glaive mods....

Id not support the idea of nezha with a exalted or hide exalted like khora & etc, and looks like DE will remove all the hide exalted and stat stick stuff soon.

 

Nezha is prolly the best tanker rn (the combo of rolling guard and halo micro make him virtualy immortal), he have a huge CC with 4, and 2 aug let him support entire squad with energy/health orbs for conditions mods like energize, health conversion and etc, plus the huge dps from it. So hes basicaly a tanker, CC, support and dps rn. An exalted wep plus the buff from the aug will make him too power creep, theres other frames that urge for buffs over than nezha tbh. hydroid nyx ash zephyr

 

U said about SP, ye 4+2 combo can onetap mobs there too, u just need to thrown dinive spears + chakram (with aug) in cluster of mobs, like 10+. gl

Edited by ShiruBiru
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I'm a Nezha main and I absolutely adore his chakram. I take him to Steel Path kinda often recently and I throw his chakram all the time. I would fix a few things with it to make it perfect though.

1. Fix the teleporting. It's only useful if you throw it in a straight line in a very wide open space. I do enjoy using it to get past corpus spy mission lasers when I'm too lazy to hop on my Ivara, but it can be a bit finicky there. It also is pretty easy to accidentally teleport to if you throw your chakram as often as I do, and you'll end up either 30m in the air or stuck under a ledge somewhere. If you duplicate it with your 4, you have no idea where you'll even teleport to!

2. Fix the enemy targeting for it. I can be just a little bit away from an enemy and sometimes the chakram will completely miss. Hitting enemies point-blank is generally how I do it when I want to be really sure it won't miss. It's a bit annoying I need to be that close.

 

14 hours ago, (PSN)BMWWOW said:

But since I prefer high level games it - again - becomes a multiple-use tactic, and during that time you are immobile (the Chakram animation is deathly slow) and  you are wasting time when a good weapon could have done a better AND FASTER job.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You can move while casting his chakram. You can fire your weapons immediately after throwing it too. The chakram's damage debuff can save you some time/ammo on harder enemies. I really like the debuff for steel path bosses.

I can agree that it might not be really worth using on lower level enemies when weapons are generally faster, but it does give health and energy.  I usually run a build with Equilibrium, Reaping Chakram, and Synth Fiber so my chakram makes it so I have almost unlimited energy. Even using it on lower level enemies is very useful to me still.

Edited by CinderSail
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This feels very familiar 🤔...

On 2020-12-13 at 8:29 AM, taiiat said:

Chakram isn't supposed to replace your Weapons, it's primarily there for Utility, that happens to benefit your Weapons to make them better, in actuality.
however, Chakram still ends up doing fairly solid Damage anyways, despite it mainly being there to debuff Enemies for you (and the Teleporting). it Kills stuff just fine.

But what about the Augment ?

That is suppose to be more Direct Damage over Utility right ?

On 2020-12-13 at 11:08 AM, (PSN)BMWWOW said:

I DO appreciate the feedback, but I do not ever consider the Simulacrum to even remotely run parallel to an actual game.

It's basically just as Disconnected as Railjack as far as I'm concerned... I mean... I use it to find out how something works on a Pseudo Technical level but I never take anything in the Simulacrum as a Practical Assessment of Anything.

On 2020-12-13 at 11:08 AM, (PSN)BMWWOW said:

Throwing at a still Simulacrum target has no basis of comparison to trying to hit a single, fast moving target in the middle of an actual in-game firefight.

Reminds me of the Argument the FGC had about Special Move motions being easy when they showed a Dog Throwing a Fireball.... In Training Mode... At a Dummy... Once... 😐...

No disrespect to the dog... It's clearly skilled... But in all fairness it's far from Conclusive.

On 2020-12-13 at 11:10 AM, (PSN)BMWWOW said:

Hmmm... perhaps the long and short is that the Chakram needs to become an Exalted Weapon so it can be modded like Valk's claws or Excal's blade.
What do you think of that idea?  Then you could mod it any way you wanted, including Glaive mods....

It would interesting considering Glaives got Tweaked recently.

On 2020-12-13 at 12:05 PM, taiiat said:

why does every damn Warframe have to have a replacement for your Weapons button.

Because Flaming @#&$ Ring is much more to throw than Glaives Prime😉. Okay in all seriousness though having Warframe that's so powerful that it doesn't need to bother with weapons is something that I think slot of people want... And not just in Warframe Either... One of the things that bugged me in Mass Effect was you couldn't play exclusively using your Bionic Powers... You had to fill in the gaps by shooting here and there... BORING !!!!

On 2020-12-13 at 3:21 PM, ShiruBiru said:

he have a huge CC with 4,

It's not really that huge...

On 2020-12-13 at 5:12 PM, CinderSail said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Perhaps it would help if factor in that he plays on Console.... Using the Majority of The Abilities in this game with a Controller has varying degrees of Frustration depending on the situation.

 

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6 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

But what about the Augment ?
That is suppose to be more Direct Damage over Utility right ?

One of the things that bugged me in Mass Effect was you couldn't play exclusively using your Bionic Powers... You had to fill in the gaps by shooting here and there... BORING !!!!

yeah, the Augment focuses more on Single/low Target Damage. w/o the Augment the Damage is still pretty solid, though.

you could almost get there in Mass Effect if you were ok with using Weapons that would help buff your Abilities, so that rather than Killing stuff they let your Abilities do more Damage. or with certain Characters, you could go with Melee instead of Guns, for that.
was close enough to me, though i wasn't looking for that sort of Gameplay. 

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This Chakram, given the way it features on Nezha's appearance, should have been made into a type of pseudo-exalted weapon or straight up exalted weapon.

It should be affected by melee mods, similar to Khora's whip, Atlas' punches. And if we compare appearances, the whip and Atlas' fists don't look as distinctive in appearance as compared to the chakram on Nezha. Alternately, make it an exalted glaive, or be usable when other melee weapons are unequipped, like Garuda's talons.

Either of these routes, is fine to me. The current way it works though, is just bland and a very underwhelming way to treat a weapon that is featured distinctly in the warframe's appearance. 

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On 2020-12-13 at 5:21 AM, ShiruBiru said:

Id not support the idea of nezha with a exalted or hide exalted like khora & etc, and looks like DE will remove all the hide exalted and stat stick stuff soon.

 

Nezha is prolly the best tanker rn (the combo of rolling guard and halo micro make him virtualy immortal), he have a huge CC with 4, and 2 aug let him support entire squad with energy/health orbs for conditions mods like energize, health conversion and etc, plus the huge dps from it. So hes basicaly a tanker, CC, support and dps rn. An exalted wep plus the buff from the aug will make him too power creep, theres other frames that urge for buffs over than nezha tbh. hydroid nyx ash zephyr

 

U said about SP, ye 4+2 combo can onetap mobs there too, u just need to thrown dinive spears + chakram (with aug) in cluster of mobs, like 10+. gl

Hey now, Helminth fixes Ash and Nyx.  Zephyr has a use as an easy to get and use tank frame for the roomier maps(open world, Jupiter, Corpus Ships) for newbies, particularly now that her 2 is a very poor man's Larva/Ensnare.  Hydroid definitely needs some love though.

 

With respect to the issue of Nezha - He is a phenomenal tank and support frame that has great hard CC, can provide *group* and *objective* DR, and can remove status effects.  Only thing the Chakram needs is the fully charged one doesn't seem to duplicate when you use the augment.

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I'm not really sure why people want his chakram to be an exalted weapon. I wouldn't accept it unless it was done like Garuda's.

2 hours ago, Klaeljanu said:

Only thing the Chakram needs is the fully charged one doesn't seem to duplicate when you use the augment.

I almost always use his Reaping Chakram augment. It does still duplicate when fully charged.

It might just be it is harder to notice because fully charged chakrams lose their bounce so they will only fly in a straight line. The duplicated charged chakrams also only fly straight, so it tends to make a lot less duplicates.

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3 hours ago, CinderSail said:

I'm not really sure why people want his chakram to be an exalted weapon. I wouldn't accept it unless it was done like Garuda's.

Supposedly Garuda's Talon's can't use Acolyte Mods....

I don't remember if they are inequitable or if they have no effect but it's got Garuda mains really pissed off....

 

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3 hours ago, CinderSail said:

I'm not really sure why people want his chakram to be an exalted weapon. I wouldn't accept it unless it was done like Garuda's.

I almost always use his Reaping Chakram augment. It does still duplicate when fully charged.

It might just be it is harder to notice because fully charged chakrams lose their bounce so they will only fly in a straight line. The duplicated charged chakrams also only fly straight, so it tends to make a lot less duplicates.

When augmented they're supposed to duplicate and seek out nearby spears no?  That is definitely not happening.

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2 hours ago, Klaeljanu said:

When augmented they're supposed to duplicate and seek out nearby spears no?  That is definitely not happening.

That is not what the augment does. Uncharged chakrams do that by default. Charged chakrams still duplicate, but have punch through instead of bounce. The augment makes the chakram do increased damage and have an increased chance to drop a health orb for every enemy it hits (so it can drop more than 1 health orb per enemy.)

 

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Supposedly Garuda's Talon's can't use Acolyte Mods....

I don't remember if they are inequitable or if they have no effect but it's got Garuda mains really pissed off....

 

That was a bug and has since been fixed on pc update 29.5: Deimos Arcana.

Edited by CinderSail
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