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Trinity getting nuked by update


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On 2020-12-15 at 9:26 PM, Battle.Mage said:

How about if instead of attacking personally and getting emotional, you at least COSTRUCTIVELY respond to 1 point of my last contribution ...
because you start again with this 1 sentence porvocation trap nonsense. and specific examples are of course completely missing! 🤦‍♂️

So that guy hasn't changed huh? Yeah that's why he's on my Ignore Filter...

On 2020-12-15 at 9:33 PM, Battle.Mage said:

not quite. there are certainly gaps and then she tips over immediately.

This is why I do not approve of the way Arcane Guardian and Grace work now even if the Two Additional Ranks make them more powerful.

Also Arcane Trickery....

As far as I'm concerned... These are all nerfs.

On 2020-12-15 at 9:33 PM, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

that requires me to use that clunky as f weapon called the miter

The biggest problem is building for it is much harder than people Realise....

It's nice to have a weapon with Extremely high Status and Slash but the biggest problem is you have to factor in Proc Instances when you are modding. What I mean by this is since it only fires one or two blades at a time... It doesn't help if both those Blades wind up proccing Viral.... 

This is also an issue I have with The Dread but atleast the Dread has Hunter Munitions... Which doesn't fight for Proc Priority with the Weapon's innate Status.

On 2020-12-16 at 12:05 AM, vanaukas said:

 

 

 

Sin descripción disponible.

 

Look, you can multiquote instead doing 4 different comments, press this button:

Sin descripción disponible.

Oh.... That's what that does... I didn't know 😝.... I multiquote by by Selection.

On 2020-12-16 at 3:12 AM, Leqesai said:

Duuuude... trinity is a good frame dont you be knockin her like that!!!

But what is she good at ? 🤔

10 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Man, if only nullifiers had some easy drone you could shoot to indefinitely remove their shield, or if there was some way to even temporarily remove their shield to target the inital null shield generator. 

That drone is far from easy to shoot....

I can't tell you how many times I've sworn I had that thing in my Crosshairs when I pulled the Trigger only for the game to tell me I missed. There's something wrong with that thing's hurtbox.

Further more.... You do know the Nullifier's bubble will clip through Solid Surfaces right ? 

In addition to that You can only shoot that drone from the Front.... If the Nullifier isn't facing your Direction then then that's no longer an Option.

10 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

you’re blowing the difficulty of nullifiers way out of proportion. 

Well... They aren't difficult... Just Finicky and Inconsistent and generally a massive nuisance.

7 hours ago, VeraElena said:

I was unaware that Vazarin and Magus Repair had a 200m range and instantly heal all party members to full, including their shield, as well as giving them some good damage reduction, multiplying their EHP by 4

Wait... Really ?

When did they change this ? 😮

7 hours ago, VeraElena said:

(with fosfor),

I wonder how many people still don't know about this....

Or that Trinity's Blessing and Harrow's Covenant doesn't scale with Ability Range but scales with Affinity Range instead....

Or that these things are amazing for levelling up your Archwings in Archwings Missions....

7 hours ago, VeraElena said:

Not to mention that she is basically the most tanky frame in the game due to instant full heals and very high damage reduction that works on shields.

I agree with The Latter but does the Former counting as Tanking ? 

Sure its a plays a large factor in overall survivability but there is a Threshold where trying to survive by healing becomes a nuisance since the damage you take is too much so you have to use it all the time.... Hence why they gave Blessing Damage Reduction...

You can experience this by playing a Low Duration Trinity build.... She doesn't feel as Tanky if you have to constantly use blessing.

 

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3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Really? Seem like specters would need better A.i. to be useful with Wisp

Well I mean yeah she won't put down Motes near Defense Objectives or when you want her to but her and Octavia I think are better Spectres than Nidus and Trinity. 

Protea was on the verge of Surpassing Wisp on release but the odds of ever seeing a Dispenser were so low and she's too Squishy to bring a long in slot of Mission Types....

So yeah.... Wisp Spectre is amazing.... Extremely finicky but Amazing.... Especially if you give her the Exergis 😈.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

But what is she good at ? 🤔

Trinity's healing is still top tier. 

She is also really tanky. 

Also... do NOT talk bad about her lobster tail. The lobster tail alone is reason enough to use trinity. With that lobster tail she can swim right into our hearts 💖

 

Edited by Leqesai
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6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

We dont give up anything to increase the damage of our weapons. We dont need the 300k damage potential, but it is there at no sacrifice. Just as you give (gave) up nothing when modding Khora for her whip since it does the same job at lower and higher levels, which is killing. There is no reason to replace the damage mods just because you dont need them because there are no other mods you need in their place. However, on a frame you bring 4 specific skills, where in Trinity's case are kinda pointless in most places. Even in arbis and steel path you have little use for them, since when you die it is most often due to a 1HK and we cant heal dead targets.

When and where are Rev and Wukong meta? They are good frames, but I dont think they've ever been meta except for when Rev could 1HK Liches. They arent the most efficient at anything, they are however safe bets in most cases, but that isnt the same as meta.

We have the Helminth now, but even before.....as someone else listed, trinity gives 75% DR and you can mod to make that last if you like. Link can strip armor as well with the mod. 

You're actually supposed to be using more than your abilities....so with the already op weapons we have.....you can you know.....use those along with your chosen trinity kit. 

It doesn't matter anyways. You're obviously allowed to play how you want. 

And a safe bet is the same as a meta....a meta means a few things, including something many people use, especially as a safe bet. This is why new players use rhino, for example. 

Revenant and wukong are great safe bet frames for people that want to go awhile in an arbitration. I see them all the time and I use them myself.

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11 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

We have the Helminth now, but even before.....as someone else listed, trinity gives 75% DR and you can mod to make that last if you like. Link can strip armor as well with the mod. 

You're actually supposed to be using more than your abilities....so with the already op weapons we have.....you can you know.....use those along with your chosen trinity kit. 

It doesn't matter anyways. You're obviously allowed to play how you want. 

And a safe bet is the same as a meta....a meta means a few things, including something many people use, especially as a safe bet. This is why new players use rhino, for example. 

Revenant and wukong are great safe bet frames for people that want to go awhile in an arbitration. I see them all the time and I use them myself.

Yes she brings all that, but it still comes back to the part where it isnt worthwhile. She pretty much has no duration on those skills, even with quite heavy investments they have short durations due to their low base value. They sit at 12 and 10 seconds base, that is alot of casting just to keep the buffs up, while link is also restricted to 3 mobs at a time. And yes, we are supposed to use more than our abilities, that still doesnt make Trinity's kit more worthwhile over someone that improves say kill speed, area coverage or simply doesnt need 2 active short duration buffs to stay safe.

And no, meta doesnt mean safe bet, it means the best option for the mode as in "most efficient tactical approach". The safe bets fill in where the player falters, while making you give up something in the efficiency area. Neither Rev or Wukong are the best for arbitrations or anything else, they are solid choices though. Rhino isnt meta, he is just good at surviving early on.

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45 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes she brings all that, but it still comes back to the part where it isnt worthwhile. She pretty much has no duration on those skills, even with quite heavy investments they have short durations due to their low base value. They sit at 12 and 10 seconds base, that is alot of casting just to keep the buffs up, while link is also restricted to 3 mobs at a time. And yes, we are supposed to use more than our abilities, that still doesnt make Trinity's kit more worthwhile over someone that improves say kill speed, area coverage or simply doesnt need 2 active short duration buffs to stay safe.

And no, meta doesnt mean safe bet, it means the best option for the mode as in "most efficient tactical approach". The safe bets fill in where the player falters, while making you give up something in the efficiency area. Neither Rev or Wukong are the best for arbitrations or anything else, they are solid choices though. Rhino isnt meta, he is just good at surviving early on.

Metas exist for different playstyles or situations. There are multiple missions and situations that call for different things that people usually flock to. This isn't an MMO with the same two raids people spam. 

You can even have metas built around specific abilities alone i.e. "the new player ironskin meta", the "volt fissure speed run meta" etc.

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On 2020-12-15 at 12:08 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You know a frame isn't trash because it's not Saryn, right? 

Trinity lost her place in the game about 3 years ago. Sure, she still has some use cases, but the comment was referring to how Trinity is essentially obsolete as everyone has a personal support Warframe: The Operator. It's no mystery why nobody plays Trinity, Oberon, or other health/regen/energy based supports as often as the supports that grant DPS bonuses like Roar, Total Eclipse, Wisp Motes, Volt Shields, Elemental Damage Augments, or Vex Armor. This problem is even worse when Protea's Dispenser is Helminth ready.

Edited by Voltage
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On 2020-12-17 at 3:57 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Metas exist for different playstyles or situations. There are multiple missions and situations that call for different things that people usually flock to. This isn't an MMO with the same two raids people spam. 

You can even have metas built around specific abilities alone i.e. "the new player ironskin meta", the "volt fissure speed run meta" etc.

Volt is one thing, but no "the new player ironskin meta" is not and has never been a thing, since it isnt the most efficient way to approach something, just the safest. Which means it goes slower than picking an actual meta choice for the missions type you do. Volt is (or was?) the most efficient speed run choice (for specific fissures), so meta applies to him since he improves the efficiency of what you set out to do. And meta do not depend on playstyle since there is really only one meta for a situation. The only time a playstyle may change the meta is if it is more successful than the previous one, replacing it, or if it is equal in outcome to the other, where both share the spot and enable two different successful styles to reach the same goal at the same efficiency. It wont be the most efficient if it is less efficient than another option, it would be smeta in that case "second most efficient".

And yes we have several meta choices for different situations. There is a seperate meta for every mission type pretty much, I was just saying that Rev and Wukong are meta nowhere, they are simply safe bets, but not the picks for any mode. Trinity for instance is meta along with Chroma and Volt for Eidolons, that however doesnt help her or Chroma elsewhere, where a brick is more useful due to their very limited kits, just as Limbo is meta for Mobdef, which doesnt make him less trash in the end since it is such a trivial mission type. And in Steel Path mobdef he loses the meta status because you dont want to just stop the enemies and afk, you want to kill as much as possible so the acolyte spawns before you are done, so Vauban and Frost takes his spot there due to far superior killing potential.

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On 2020-12-16 at 9:01 PM, Leqesai said:

Trinity's healing is still top tier. 

She is also really tanky. 

Also... do NOT talk bad about her lobster tail. The lobster tail alone is reason enough to use trinity. With that lobster tail she can swim right into our hearts 💖

 

You mean the bustle?   I hate it.  It's not the 19th century anymore.  

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50 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Volt is one thing, but no "the new player ironskin meta" is not and has never been a thing, since it isnt the most efficient way to approach something, just the safest. Which means it goes slower than picking an actual meta choice for the missions type you do. Volt is (or was?) the most efficient speed run choice (for specific fissures), so meta applies to him since he improves the efficiency of what you set out to do. And meta do not depend on playstyle since there is really only one meta for a situation. The only time a playstyle may change the meta is if it is more successful than the previous one, replacing it, or if it is equal in outcome to the other, where both share the spot and enable two different successful styles to reach the same goal at the same efficiency. It wont be the most efficient if it is less efficient than another option, it would be smeta in that case "second most efficient".

And yes we have several meta choices for different situations. There is a seperate meta for every mission type pretty much, I was just saying that Rev and Wukong are meta nowhere, they are simply safe bets, but not the picks for any mode. Trinity for instance is meta along with Chroma and Volt for Eidolons, that however doesnt help her or Chroma elsewhere, where a brick is more useful due to their very limited kits, just as Limbo is meta for Mobdef, which doesnt make him less trash in the end since it is such a trivial mission type. And in Steel Path mobdef he loses the meta status because you dont want to just stop the enemies and afk, you want to kill as much as possible so the acolyte spawns before you are done, so Vauban and Frost takes his spot there due to far superior killing potential.

Uhm, are you aware that newer players don't have access to certain frames unless they buy them or that they don't have access to every planet as soon as they start? 

Are you aware that many new players, including myself were directed towards or told to go get rhino to help us learn the game? Many of us used the ironskin meta because it is efficient. It's efficient for you know.....not dying and staying alive long enough to take an enemy down or complete a mission. 

Here's another one, this is gonna sound crazy....but did you know we also did the same thing for Nezha? Did you know people called Nezha a better rhino for new players since all you need is dojo access, some credits and the resources? 

I used both Nezha and rhino religiously when I was new. It's a meta because it's efficient for new players to use these frames and their shield abilities as crutches until they learn the game. 

Wukong was/is a spy meta, for example. Kinda common sense, it was only talked about like everywhere.

Revenant is a great meta for people that once again, similar to rhino or Nezha, dont want to have to worry about dying. All you need is a weapon and a gun and all you do is kill while refreshing a shield. Once again, a common sense meta that Inaros even takes part in. He's great for people that have 4-6 formaed weapons with rivens because all you do is use your HP bar to carry you, while you kill everything with your chosen weapon, preferably a "range meta" weapon, which consists of a weapon with Primed reach and a riven with range as well. 

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11 hours ago, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

When Trinity gained the ability to heal objectives i thought DE had finally given us something really nice but instead it was just a glitch. I'm exhausted with this game honestly it's nerf after nerf.

thats why i came up with the defence shell idea enimys can do 10000+ damage per shot the shell dont care it dont have a HP bar the enimys can wait for hours the shell dont care its not duration based (unlike limbo) so if you CC the enimys out of the shell its GG enimys you are not touching my target

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On 2020-12-14 at 7:27 PM, (XBOX)Harbinger XK5 said:

I used to be able to heal objectives with trinity which made the game a lot less stressful I get maybe the defense targets, but how in the world is anyone supposed to keep those little to no health excavators alive if trinity can't heal them!!!! This is ridiculous D.E. is becoming unreasonable! 

trinity used to be able to heal people no matter where they were on the map
trinity used to be able to link to enemies an then use self damage to nuke them

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One of the little things that bug me is how Trin's been handled over the years. She was undeniably overpowered so DE kept nerfing and nerfing until it became a meme. She's supposed to have a fourth augment but to this day it's not in the game.

This maybe minor but especially now that newer Warframes get more reliable and powerful ways to stay immortal, I feel like Trin's ultimate could be buffed a little. Originally, her 4th granted full immunity for about 30 seconds when maximized, next they removed that and cut the duration but you could still get 99% DR, when that still was too strong they capped the DR at 75% but didn't rebalance the duration. It's powerful but I still tend to stack Link on top of it because despite the DR, she's pretty squishy.

She could really use a rework or another balance pass, I'm sure this goes for a lot of Warframes but her abilities need high range, strength and duration to function adequately. In my above example for her ultimate, you can get the 75% DR cap and make it last for 30 seconds (making probably expensive to cast) at a cost of range. The support frame cannot support properly.

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When I hear some of you talk in these forums, it makes me never want to reach endgame where a number of frames seem to be valueless. I am having fun at the point I am in the game currently where I mostly don't need primed or corrupted mods yet and I can use all these cool frames that I've collected. Obviously support frames are much less fun solo, but I can sometimes have lucking grouping up on lower level missions.

It's like that notorius 6 hour YouTube "review" (actually an analysis) that was posted here, recently: I feel like that guy is living on another planet from me. I have a lot of fun with Warframe in this nice mid-game place that I'm at. And had a ton of fun when I was a new player too (after getting past the steep initial learning curve).

Edited by MontyCulligan
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After having some more time to think about this, maybe I'm thinking about it all wrong.

Maybe some frames are meant to be fun in different stages of the game only. Like maybe Trinity isn't meant to be useful at the endgame. I'm not saying this is a great thing, but it might just be the reality of Warframe and something to acknowledge. If you want to appreciate some of the older frames, you need to get them and use them in the enemy level range that was maximum at the time they were introduced? If this is true, the worst part of it is the lack of guides out there explaining what level ranges are ideal for what frames.

The somewhat silver lining, I guess, is that the way Warframe works it's very easy to find content at any level range regardless of what mods you have (and you can always remove mods to make the game harder at lower level ranges). Unlike MMOs where leveled abilities and stats are permanently attached to your character.

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Nah, you can totally use most frames in high level content and have fun with them. Pure damage abilities start to fall off quickly, but thankfully most frames have alternatives to pure casting builds that work just fine.

Like, you won't be going in with a Radial Javelin Excaliur, but you can absolutely pull off an Exalted Blade Exalibur that maybe even used the Javelin augment to increase melee damage. An Ember purely spamming Inferno will start feeling weak after lvl 40, but an Ember that also makes use of Fire Blast can keep doing endgame Grineer content until she gets bored.

 

 

Trinity is a really good defensive support frame and even becomes more useful the higher the level gets. Afaik, no other frame can multiply your party's EHP by 4x while also providing infinite energy. While also being rather tanky should you decide to solo.

 

Another fun build Trinity can do: Build for low duration and high strength. proc 10 stacks of Viral on an enemy with your weapon and then cast Energy Vampire. The enemy, regardless of level, will die, even in index.

You sacrifice your survivability for it and it is a bit slow, but technically one of the strongest single target abilities.

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I usually say 'most' when I say stuff like that because you just know there is gonna be that one dude going: "Well actually, Frosts abilities all don't scale well, making him really bad in the late game", or similar

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