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Deimos: Arcana: Prime Vault 29.5.9


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41 minutes ago, HolySeraphin said:

I don't think this is how it works. The very post says that now there are 3 droptables that shift from time to time, and work like bounties from other open worlds. For example, at 10:00 AM you have Tier 1 rotation A for 3 hours straight. This means that no matter how many times you do the bounty, you will always get rotation A rewards. At 01:00 PM (3 hours later) it will shift to another rotation, and you will only get rewards from that rotation. 

This sounds correct.

I think the ingame descriptions no longer represent how the loot system works.

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38 minutes ago, zipilgrim said:

Unfortunately, it looks like it doesn't at all, at least for now.

I went to Necralisk for the first time since update. I could matchmake for all 3 tiers of Iso Vaults (even though we're supposed to have to (re)do T1 to get T2, and T2 to get T3. No biggie I thought, I'll just try out a T1 and see if that unlocks the T1 Arcana. Went in, it put me in a rando group doing the bait, I got suspicious when I noticed enemies were taking more beating than they should at T1, Then we get into the vault and we have 3 Necramechs. Yes, clearly put in the wrong bounty. I'm only doing this for testing so I don't care, I keep going with them. We kill them all, complete the Loid bonus, and they all head to extract. I follow them, since I didn't want to do T3 stuff anyway. Back in Necralisk at Mother, I see she is offering T1 Iso and T2 Iso. No T3 Arcana (which should've unlocked when I completed the T3 Iso), and more importantly, T3 Iso is now just gone from her list.

So we have a bug putting me in the wrong tier, and wonky behaviour with which bounties are available from Necralisk. Unless having none of the Arcana and only one shot at each of the Iso per cycle is by design, but I genuinely hope the system isn't that stupid (not to mention the current behaviour completely contradicts the patch notes)

Although the description in the patch notes made it sound some of the changes were to allow us to target specific rewards, right now it's very unclear where rewards are. The Drop Table is weird, as it references stages that don't exist or that may or may not exist, when the stage progression for all the Arcana bounties is pretty straightforward and unchanging. I guess in theory you should be able to check the rewards at Mother in Necralisk, and if the Iso and Arcana bounties have the same rewards within a bounty cycle, which I certainly hope they do, then you're technically fine. I'm guessing the "Rotation" in the Drop Table refers to the 3-hour bounty cycle; honestly I think that's a terrible idea. If I see the reward I need isn't up I'm not going to wait 6 hours for the right bounty to come up, I'm going to exit the game and go do something else.

Went back in for more testing.

Picked the T1 Iso in Necralisk again. This time it put me in the right group, doing a T1. After finishing the vault, and the Loid bonus, we started an Arcana T1. After going back to Necralisk, I can see Mother offering T2 and T3 Iso, but no T1. So it seems that whichever is the last one you did is simply gone. Fortunately there's an easy fix: going to Orbiter and back to Necralisk brings all 3 back.

I'm sorry to say that the new system isn't much of an improvement, and may actually be worse in some ways. Token rewards have been massively nerfed, I was getting 2 per bounty stage, a good 5 or 6 times less than before. The spread of the items over different cycles may go against diluting the drop tables, but it spreads what we want all over the place; not to mention that it DOES act as a nerf to drop rates in some ways. I never farmed all 3 weapon parts for my Morgha and Cortege; I simply farmed 6 parts total (at 15% drop rate per cycle of bounties) then traded for what I was missing. Now you'd need to farm each part at a 5% drop each, and God help you if you have to wait for the right cycle to get the part you need and give up and end up doing whichever is currently up so you can trade it anyway. Not quite worse since you could also try and get them from the Arcana now, but the tradeoff ends up feeling more like a horizontal exchange than any real improvement. I'm glad I got all the weapons before the patch.

Otherwise some of the usual bugs are still there (killing things too quickly during fissure sealing bugs it out), we had a weird one during the bait gathering (things simply stopped spawning), and I discovered that picking up Rare mods while in Necramech does not count towards the Nightwave act.

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1 hour ago, zipilgrim said:

Unfortunately, it looks like it doesn't at all, at least for now.

I went to Necralisk for the first time since update. I could matchmake for all 3 tiers of Iso Vaults (even though we're supposed to have to (re)do T1 to get T2, and T2 to get T3. No biggie I thought, I'll just try out a T1 and see if that unlocks the T1 Arcana. Went in, it put me in a rando group doing the bait, I got suspicious when I noticed enemies were taking more beating than they should at T1, Then we get into the vault and we have 3 Necramechs. Yes, clearly put in the wrong bounty. I'm only doing this for testing so I don't care, I keep going with them. We kill them all, complete the Loid bonus, and they all head to extract. I follow them, since I didn't want to do T3 stuff anyway. Back in Necralisk at Mother, I see she is offering T1 Iso and T2 Iso. No T3 Arcana (which should've unlocked when I completed the T3 Iso), and more importantly, T3 Iso is now just gone from her list.

So we have a bug putting me in the wrong tier, and wonky behaviour with which bounties are available from Necralisk. Unless having none of the Arcana and only one shot at each of the Iso per cycle is by design, but I genuinely hope the system isn't that stupid (not to mention the current behaviour completely contradicts the patch notes)

Although the description in the patch notes made it sound some of the changes were to allow us to target specific rewards, right now it's very unclear where rewards are. The Drop Table is weird, as it references stages that don't exist or that may or may not exist, when the stage progression for all the Arcana bounties is pretty straightforward and unchanging. I guess in theory you should be able to check the rewards at Mother in Necralisk, and if the Iso and Arcana bounties have the same rewards within a bounty cycle, which I certainly hope they do, then you're technically fine. I'm guessing the "Rotation" in the Drop Table refers to the 3-hour bounty cycle; honestly I think that's a terrible idea. If I see the reward I need isn't up I'm not going to wait 6 hours for the right bounty to come up, I'm going to exit the game and go do something else.

Listen, I just had to spend multiple pages listening to people whine that I was being unreasonable to not fork over my information to Epic.  I literally had to defend myself from the statement "I'm not signing up for this."  It wasn't a blanket statement...but people got very butt hurt.

 

I'm looking for positivity, followed by depression after I actually play this weekend and discover the reality.  This being said, I want to encourage DE doing what is right.  I can wait to be angry after I discover my chocolate ice cream is in fact excrement.

 

 

 

So yeah, thanks for the update.  I'm not surprised it's bugged....but being fair required me to be positive, while offering the caveat in my statement of "if it works."  I've been burned by DE too many times not to use that caveat.

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1 hour ago, CanOfCraig said:

Trying to keep this as constructive feedback, but the reason I dislike Eidolons is because it takes the freedom to do something on my schedule and time, and removes that. This is basically that but even worse.
You have 3 tiers, why do you need to make farming the arch weapons this tedious and drawn out, I already had a hard time wanting to do it, and now the loot tables make it even more complicated with no reason to do so.

So, maybe I can help with explaining why this is better, or at least framing why I believe it to be so.

 

Run Tier 1.  10 minutes.  Run Tier 2.  10 minutes.  Run Tier 3, and then do the extended Loid charging animatic.  About 15 minutes, depending upon how cheap the mechs are.  Total time, 35 minutes.  Total chances of getting any single mech weapon part, 5%.  With two rolls the chance of getting something is in fact 1-.95^2 or 1-90.25= 9.75%.  So, you have about 35 minutes invested for less than a 1 in 10 chance of getting the reward you want.  

The positive here, it's a flat chance.  To find you chances for a number of runs you just modify the exponent.  The bad, it sucks to run for hours, and have nothing.

 

Now, let's look at the as described flow.  Bang out all 3 in one go.  Never touch Tier 1 and Tier 2 again.  You are limited to rewards, but it's now 1-0.85^n.  This means after a single go it's 27.75% likely that you'll get the mech weapon part, and it takes 15/35 or about 40% the time.

Our loss here is the p.i.t.a. timers.  The time dependency means there will be hours where playing is useless.  

 

 

If things work, I think this will lessen the painful grind of vaults (3 barrels, 3 stocks, 1 receiver here).  That assumes efficacy of changes, but a nearly 3 fold increase in getting the drop is appreciated.  This said, if the actual state of the drops is slipshod I'm calling it as anger now.  I am crossing my fingers, and hoping DE didn't make this worse...somehow.

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11 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Deimos Arcanes

  • Significantly higher drop % chance.

I had hoped you would rework them before upping their droprates, because as it stands, they're a worse drop than endo.

Really thankful for the new vault flow though, that's going to save years off of people's life expectancies.

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hace 11 horas, [DE]Megan dijo:

You will now only ever need to complete a specific Tier of Isolation Bounty once to unlock the next Tier.

  1.  

True MVP of this update

hace 11 horas, [DE]Megan dijo:

Slightly reduced: You only ever need 1 of the Sporothrix and Arum Spinosa Blueprint. Getting all the way to the Arcana Bounties and receiving another Weapon Blueprint is not a feel good moment. Although this doesn’t completely eliminate getting duplicates, the drop % reduction does allow for better chances towards the other rewards

So... 1% or the ol trusty 0,5%?

 

hace 11 horas, [DE]Megan dijo:

No longer in the tables:

When is this coming to the normal star chart?

Also quick question... qhy the need to lock the different tier vaults in the first place???

Edited by kaotis
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11 hours ago, Artekkor said:

I appreaciate the bounty changes but... It took you just a couple months too long. I've already finished the grind of both necramechs and ALL the mech guns.
I mean, this will help when you'll release another one, but seriously. How much time these changes would save, were they  introduced about a month after deimos' original release.

DE, you need to learn how to try to predict these things long before you have to fix them. This happens almost every time with new content islands you introduce. There has to be some kind of a pattern that could help in predicting player base reaction and preventing the necessity of patches such as this.

thats why you dont play immediately bro... this type of S#&$ ALWAYS happens. ALWAYS, without exeption. 

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12 hours ago, Zenimune said:

Thank you for the hotfix.

Just to let you know, the Sigma and Octantis isn't functioning quite properly:

The first hit of the neutral combo (regardless of stance) will come before any combo you're doing, slide attacks included.

The shield is thrown before slam attacks which shouldn't be the case, and the waits for the shield to come back before the slam attack is finished.

This has been annoying me ever since the glaive rework update, hope it gets fixed

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With their prime vaults, it would actually have been nice to see some sort of changes to both mirage and banshee, banshee especially needs it, shes one of the worst frames in the game. Makes it really hard for anybody to warrant purchasing the unvaulting packs. 

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13 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed a giant memory leak caused by disabling Multi-Threaded Rendering (Huge thanks to .Zexal for helping diagnose!)

Rip Fast Loading Open World and Tridolon ! 

Huge thanks to .Zexal

Edited by LouisJezsen
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il y a 3 minutes, spudster888. a dit :

With their prime vaults, it would actually have been nice to see some sort of changes to both mirage and banshee, banshee especially needs it, shes one of the worst frames in the game. Makes it really hard for anybody to warrant purchasing the unvaulting packs. 

Worst? can do endless surviaval till you're bored and she's bad?
yeah some frames needs improvement, banshee ain't one of them

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23 minutes ago, Rock_99 said:

Yeah vault bounty change .... so now can I have the choice to do only Hydrolyst, allready kill the trio countless times, and by daylight please, night is a little dark.

Yeah that's ironic, just to tell DUMB IDEA !!!

dramatic drama GIF

The irony in your comment is hilarious. 

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25 minutes ago, Rock_99 said:

Worst? can do endless surviaval till you're bored and she's bad?
yeah some frames needs improvement, banshee ain't one of them

You're adorable thinking endurance viability actually means anything. Nidus is one of the best endurance frames yet isn't useful in the wider context of the game, and thats down to what he does having no actual home. 

Edited by spudster888.
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13 hours ago, Artekkor said:

DE, you need to learn how to try to predict these things long before you have to fix them. This happens almost every time with new content islands you introduce. There has to be some kind of a pattern that could help in predicting player base reaction and preventing the necessity of patches such as this.

no. it's players need to learn this pattern already. every time they artificially raise the grind of new content to the sky and when done milking players and have something new to abuse coming soon, then they making a dummy carrying face and change the accessibility of content. nobody can be so dumb and make such repeated stupid mistakes for years. it's not coincidence, it's done on purpose.

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14 hours ago, p_silveira said:

I've said this before, but it is worth mentioning again:

Who is this supposed to be helping again? Cuz I seriously can't think of one single case where this design helps anyone. Why not let all the mother spawns have all the three tiers of bounties? There is zero indication ingame of where you should go next after the first tier, and makes zero sense whatsoever. It's even worse if you are a new player that has no idea this system exists. 

I totally agree with this, makes everything easier to understand.

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18 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Deimos: Arcana: Hotfix 29.5.9
 

Isolation Vault Flow Changes:

 

  1. You will now only ever need to complete a specific Tier of Isolation Bounty once to unlock the next Tier.
     

  2. Once the Isolation Vault Tier is completed, you can run the Arcana Bounty at that same Tier.
     

  3. Each Isolation Vault Bounty Tier now has a specific Mother location in Cambion Drift to provide a concrete flow with less confusion.

    1. Tier 1 = Mother located in ‘UNDULATUM’

    2. Tier 2 = Mother located between ‘ALBRECHT'S PROSPECT’ and ‘CATABOLIC GUTTER’

    3. Tier 3 = Mother located in ‘THE ABSCESS’

    4.  

  4. All 3 Tiers of Isolation Vault Bounties are now available from Mother within the Necralisk.

 

I have done all three Isolation vaults solo but the T3 Mother shows the the T3 bounty as still locked *sigh* damn bugs. I picked each Vault from the outside Mothers at there locations.

When I click the bounty it comes up with Complete ISOLATION VAULT (TIER 3) to unlock this bounty I've done it because I killed the three Neramecks in there.

  1. You will now only ever need to complete a specific Tier of Isolation Bounty once to unlock the next Tier.  CHECK T1, T2 and T3 done.

  2. Once the Isolation Vault Tier is completed, you can run the Arcana Bounty at that same Tier. NOPE I can't do the T3 bounty.

Oh well guess I better redo it. 

Edit:
Redid the T3 Vault and it took this time. hell I even did the Bonus vault and got Necramech Streamline drop, so a nice reward for being messed around.

 

 

Edited by Slayer-.
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