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wmarket.com devalues ​​platinum and currency value


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26 minutes ago, Magnulast said:

it's called a quick seller, if he has too much quantity, prices will drop due to demand. If you don't want to quick sell, don't go for that price.

  • "this player is selling "nonexistent" and "unavailable" pieces on the market devaluing really "existing" and "available" pieces on market"

Welp, that's something to report on their site isn't it?

well ... nop? their website does not have access to the player's account information, they cannot know if the items are available and these numbers indirectly affect the progress of the novice player, the novice player will have difficulties with RNG and with an external market influencing the game

I am not saying that the prices are wrong or right I am exemplifying the difficulty of the novice player and a possible bankruptcy of the game and inactivity of players because it is stressful to compete with external factors

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1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

No.

Not that I care all that much, but actually it is the opposite to what you are saying. Since the market is theoretically open and free (to a point, anyway), according to (very) basic economic theory the price point should be where the seller(s) and the buyer(s) meet. Unless you affect the market by regulatory or other means, this price point is never wrong. It just is.

So there is no "devaluation" of plat going on, since it's value is not fixed to anything. Unless you include "real money", but that doesn't help your argument since the "exchange value" between plat and "real money" has been quite constant for a long time. And if you want to connect the value of "goods" in the marketplace to "real money", disregarding the plat in between, you are back at square one. In an open and free market where everyone can participate in equal trade according to the same rules the current price point is always correct, and a function of what the sellers and buyers want (also described as "supply" and "demand", which is an even simpler and more mechanistic way to look at it).

What happens is what should happen (in a free market), when sellers want to sell more "goods" they lower their price to increase volume, if they would raise the price the volume would go down (since there are less buyers willing to pay that price). It is elementary.

The biggest problem with trading in Warframe is not an open market system, but that "trading" isn't all that equal. Staring for hours at the market chat, using bots or other tools and engaging in outside marketplaces all that extra effort and knowhow, and all that could be made a lot easier. Then you would get more market volume over all (more sellers and buyers), which would make the price points more stable (and prices for some goods noticeably lower than in the current system, where the prices are kept higher due to limitations on the number of sellers and goods).

yes, supply and demand
I imagine a high demand because there are players with a large quantity available and few players to pay for this cost but these buyers (novice players) are active trying to buy pieces for below average values because it is difficult to accumulate this amount of platinum without understanding the misinformation that there at wmercado.com

I see an imaginary gap between the purchase values and the sale values (buy and sell tab) and there is a novice player discovering two difficulties for progress in the game: the market patriarchy and the RNG

the novice player sells cheap due to RNG stress and gets stressed again when he sees that the accumulated values cannot buy on the market, we have full public coffers and possible dropout and inactive accounts

maybe i'm thinking long term, i don't know what will happen

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4 hours ago, TKDancer said:

congrats on discovering some of the  shadyness and failings of capitalism

You sound like a crazy or ignorant person.

If the sale is legit, then it's simply someone selling something for cheaper.  There's nothing wrong with that.
If the sale is fake, then it's fraudulent order spoofing.

Do you really think fraud and theft are the fault of capitalism?  Somehow, magically, lies and fraud don't exist in socialism, communism, or any other crazy economic system? You have some reading and thinking to do.

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4 hours ago, AltairFerenc said:

the whole trading system faild in the game over time.

Void keys got replaced with relics prices went down because the grind is a lot easier.
Rivens got introduced wich outside of being overpriced flod the ingame trade chat so players frustered go to wfmarket where everyone wants to sell high and buy low, just like in real life except no oversight.
Steel path come in rare mods are now worthless too. 

Literally the only ways to get plat is junk, day 1-2 new primes/rarely unvalted ones(if you can even grind it out to begin with) 

 

Also trade chat is virtually useless too, I was just wanted to get some plat put up a filter with "WTB" saw something that I could sell wrote to the guy and he just said it's cheaper in wfmarket... Then why are you sucking in the ocean of trade chat if you could just scalp from market? 
 

IMO wfmarket should be shut down and there should be a plat limit on trades for like 400p so no more overpriced 1k+ rivens either...

I can see where you are coming from, but capping prices doesn't really accomplish anything for this problem. I feel the game has too little good Platinum sinks, and this over time has created such a low value for Platinum on PC (combined with the easier drop rates and other factors). If you want to start making Platinum feel more valuable, there needs to be a lot less Platinum in circulation. The console version of the game for example has TennoGen for Platinum, and it isn't really cheap. This means that items like Riven Mods won't reach the values they do of PC because 1) Consoles don't get discounted Platinum outside of Prime Access and special holiday sales, and 2) Players just don't have access to that kind of Platinum as often due to good sinks being in place that take it out of the game.

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Not sure if you know how supply and demand works in real life? But its exactly what you have an issue with. Look at companies like Starbuck, Wal-Mart, Amazon.com, and McDonalds. If you have the supply, you have the driving force to place any price you desire. And it is the consumer to decide if they want to buy or not, but never forced.

As a small supplier and you want to survive going lower is usually the best option. If you're trying to go premium in price, than you have to offer something on top of just the product.

Also if you have a problem with the market system, you really don't have to use it. Its up to you if you want to be on trade chat all day long proposing your sales, which works also.

Edited by kwlingo
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34 minutes ago, TnaneverRisen said:

Do you really think fraud and theft are the fault of capitalism?

bullS#&$ behind-closed-doors stuff and fraud done for the sake of controlling prices seems pretty damn common in it lol

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1 minute ago, TKDancer said:

bullS#&$ behind-closed-doors stuff and fraud done for the sake of controlling prices seems pretty damn common in it lol

And what makes you think that's the fault of capitalism?

In communism and similar systems, the government directly control the price with force, and they may also control how much you're even allowed to receive/buy at all.  In capitalism, people can try to coordinate prices, but still have to actually produce something you want to buy, and anyone can potentially compete with the sellers by undercutting.

Any complaint you might have of capitalism is illogical if you are against fraud and theft, because all of it is worse in any other system.

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6 minutes ago, TnaneverRisen said:

Any complaint you might have of capitalism is illogical if you are against fraud and theft, because all of it is worse in any other system.

[citation needed]

anyways enjoy worshiping capital, ima drop it here before mods slap me

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ya i agree this is terrible! it makes it so much harder to rip off new players by charging insane prices and rob them blind! ug how will i ever become a virtual sleezball if the prices are out there for anyone to see!!! man i so badly wanted to be a sleazy slimeball who rips off new players.....

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Back when I played before the lich update and I had enough of the game I did all my trading purely on WFT. I just wanted some plat and by any means even if it meant undercutting and forcing others to also lower their prices if they wanted to make a sale at all. Some stuff was just to expensive to buy or sell and I tried to fix it a little by undercutting the market! Who cares if stuff is losing value if more people are able to trade for stuff more affordably and not have to slog through in game trade chat to make any plat?

Edited by (XBOX)Zweimander
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On 2020-12-17 at 6:19 PM, Famecans said:

 

title is self-explanatory but I will exemplify some situations influencing the value of prime pieces and devaluation of the game's currency:

PmcsMvR.png

  • this player exposes the volume (quantity) of pieces on the market making the market devaluate for new pieces, the new player wants to sell faster and cheaper
  • this player does not have time to check the market values and readjust his sales strategy as the website tool is disconnected from the player in game
  • this player has many other equipment in his profile to be readjusted but he only occasionally visits the site to sell and in the meantime other players are reducing the sale value to compete
  • this player reaches his limit of daily trades but the website continues to show the value and quantity of pieces as "available" and "online"
  • this player is not online on the site because he is online in game and the site has no connection with the player
  • this player is selling "nonexistent" and "unavailable" pieces on the market devaluing really "existing" and "available" pieces on market

this devalues the circulation of large amounts of platinum creating totally inaccurate and lying liquidity and affects the actual purchase of platinum

welcome to capitalism ^^)

indeed, you spotted a great flaw in the aspect of "off-site tarding" though i don't agree to all of your conclusions.

the main problem is that there is no control over the truthfulness of any offer in any off-site market and using bogus offers can also be made to undermine the value of anything offered there (for different reasons too). ofc, there is also a lot of psychology in play there that makes it easy for those who know how to use such tools to profit from those who don't. the whole trading in such off-site stores is problematic because it's a lawless territory with no trade laws other than what the creator of the site deems right or wrong nor any kind of guarantee that those who offer something to a stated price will actually deliver upon it - you can't sue someone who say i offer a ember prime set for 10 platinum and i have 100 of them in my posession if this person then either don't respond, ask for more platinum and in some part even try to rip you off in price or goods (though DE might then go aginst this player on their own terms service (ToS)).

since DE made it known often enough that there won't be any AH in the game, such 3rd party sites are the only practical way of doing trading - anything else like the bazaar, the trade chat or the forum isn't anywhere near an alternative. the best course of action, on the part of DE, would be if they open their own off-site trade-platform with laws according to their ToS and with double-checking (automatical done) of offered products, maybe even rules of pricing to prevent too high or too low offers (which still could be part of the privatly done agreement between trade partners). they have the data needed to prevent mark-manipulation and can trace the way of the trade currency too (which they alreay do). ofc, such service should be paid by with a nominal fee (a fixed one would be best or there would only be cases of underhanding trades and thus trouble) the transactions could also been check upon if it was as offered and/or if other agreements  (those in privat done) are hold true... basically, that's the way trading in RL is done (still with all the 'shady' posibilities in place, so worry where the good old corruption is going ^^)

not possible? to much work? nope - this is easily done via a few  automatically done processes and is happening all around the worls every second of the day in a much bigger picture. the costs for DE? a good server with a good contectivity from around the world (might be a bit costly for them), some people checking 'special' cases and irregularities in person and ofc getting their costs back form those who uses their service by the nominal fee - also something that many trade platforms do... i think they 'could' making somthing like this work, even with a positive revenue for them but ofc, this also put them into a somewhat difficult position of actually handling 'trade' and depending one the law of the state, this might be even more work due to laws and said revenue (taxman is always looking for where you get your money from afteral ^^)

On 2020-12-17 at 6:23 PM, trunks013 said:

Technicly since warframe market ins not officialy affiliated with warframe well its kinda on their side and even there how would they technically fix that ?

easy. they could put it into their ToS that this isn't allowed... ofc since they don't offer an acceptable alternative to it, they would make themself enemy of many of their users - paying ones and free player alike... this could therefore easily firingy back at them in a very uncomfortable way. my guess is that's one of the reasons they let this happen and will tolerate it as long as there is real damage to their core business.

some people also claim that DE is really behind some of those trading platforms and thus can control their own market quite well... conspiracy everywhere ^^)  but it would be something I would do in their position, that's for sure...

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11 hours ago, fr4gb4ll said:

snip

easy. they could put it into their ToS that this isn't allowed... ofc since they don't offer an acceptable alternative to it, they would make themself enemy of many of their users - paying ones and free player alike... this could therefore easily firingy back at them in a very uncomfortable way. my guess is that's one of the reasons they let this happen and will tolerate it as long as there is real damage to their core business.

some people also claim that DE is really behind some of those trading platforms and thus can control their own market quite well... conspiracy everywhere ^^)  but it would be something I would do in their position, that's for sure...

Well even if they put it in TOS enforcing it would be a nightmare honestly how can you prove that ? Man thats hard of course you can stop the sites but a new underground site will appear. Of course incorporating auction house or even a vendor mode like in dofus ( if thats the proper name i think  they have an logged off vendor mode that let you buy stuff from players while they are offline) could be great but i still wonder why they dont do it.

Edited by trunks013
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The price of anything is what the seller will sell for and the buyer will buy for. Nothing has an intrinsic value, it all depends on  market conditions, supply and demand, trying to stop that behaviour by some kind of price fixing rarely ends well.

If you want a quick sale, sell cheap, if you want to hold out for a higher price then do so.

If you can't find a buyer at your price then you've priced it to high and the deal will go to someone who didn't.

Warframe market is just a tool that allows free market principles to operate - a freely available dataset that shows how much things are going for at the moment.

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9 hours ago, trunks013 said:

Well even if they put it in TOS enforcing it would be a nightmare honestly how can you prove that ? Man thats hard of course you can stop the sites but a new underground site will appear. Of course incorporating auction house or even a vendor mode like in dofus ( if thats the proper name i think  they have an logged off vendor mode that let you buy stuff from players while they are offline) could be great but i still wonder why they dont do it.

it might be hard to stop sites poping up left and right that offers stolen platinum but it's easy enough to find and punish those who bought the platinum from such sites... theortical you can even punish the one who traded it, but i guess those are from hacked accounts in the first place - otherwise DE could legaly sue them in their country of orgin (even most regiems like in rusland or china will punish non-state hacker... or employ them ^^)

for trade of in-game stuff between legal account owners it's a bit harder, but not impossible if DE is also watching the chat between players - usually when you want to buy something that is offered on a 3rd party trade platform, you'll have to contact the seller in-game and this would leave a fingerprint for DE to get you... ofc, if the contact in done only on the trade platform, DE would need to gather all date from there and if the usernames there are different than in-game, then it would be even more difficult to get them...

in the end, nothing is really impossible to do if the player (or DE's inqusition ^^) are clever and persistant enough... but since all this is rather bothersome, i'd say DE won't bother as long as it doesn't hurt their revenue or if it's about 'stolen' things from hacked accounts and thus the off-site/game trading will be always allowed or as long as it doesn't prove contraproductive to their goals.

personally i'm more worried about 3rd parties getting information about our accounts (names for one but also what kind of 'loot' a hacker could get from it) - if i were the evil hacker here, i would start with such an off-site trade platform, that's for sure ^^

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Gotta point out that no matter what you claim you have or the price you're attempting to sell it at, warframe market only takes into account confirmed trades. So, even if you claim you have 1 million helios sets and you put them at 1 platinum, the average price won't drop down a single bit. Everything else is supply and demand. 

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