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Operation: Orphix Venom - Lavos Feedback Megathread (Read First Post)


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A cooldown system does not really lend itself well to Warframe. Most warframes "break the game" once they are fully decked out. As a nuke frame Lavos cannot achieve this same level of power fantasy. Here are my suggestions overall.

All cooldowns should be much lower. Any cooldown in this game, even 3-6 seconds is LONG!

His 1 and 2 abilities need more damage and possibly charges so that you can build up multiple cooldowns.

His 1 needs to be a multi hit to wrack up multiple stacks of toxin/whatever condition

His 2 needs to allow better control (turning.)

Make his 3 disable cooldowns for his other abilities (not for it) and efficiency would lower 3's cooldown.

His 4 seems fine but needs less of a wind up.

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Any chance for Helminth IMBUED abilities onto lavos getting elemental imbues?

 

casting fire blast (ember) or "firewalker" (nexha) as lavos and filling a local area with your elemental choice just seems cool.

 

The other thing that would be nice is also allowing HOLD to select elemental imbue to still work with lavos if you have a helminth ablitity overwritten there.

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On 2020-12-19 at 8:01 AM, mauromw said:

Sorry, i cannot agree with the 95% of the things on your comment. Skills 2 and 3 can be stopped using the skill again. And the damage output is insane i tested it against lvl 170 heavy armored units, using just skills and no forma. Corrosive projection + Full umbra build + stretch + adaptation + fleeting expertise / arcane guardian and arcane grace.

 

This warframe is similar to grendel, similar build, tanky and high damage skills. Is like 1 + hold 1 grendel skill combo, u wait until the enemies are debuffed and just hold 1. Lavos is a tank debuffer too. 

But, add fleeting expertise, does it help reduce the cooldown?

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On 2021-01-21 at 10:33 PM, chainchompguy3 said:

It Subtracts From the Theming. If you're not constantly mixing "potions", then you don't get the full "alchemist frame", discount-Magicka feeling he was built for. (Basically I'm just saying it'd feel less cool, which I acknowledge is totally subjective).

I get what you mean. Being alchemist, mixing potions etc sounds interesting however.... there should be difference between potions.

You get only few options:

- damage buffs (corrosive, viral, heat and magnetic, toxin, gas)

- stunning (cold and electricity)

- enemies can hit each other (radiation)

There are difference (e.g. magnetic is for shield, corrosive is for armor) but there are not many different options.

 

So I can see how people want to use only few abilities.

 

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Things that i'm 100% certain that you will add/buff to Lavos: 

1. Cooldown reduction buff for his transmutation probe, since 1 second is really ineffective

2.some minor tweaks for base ability cooldowns on all of his abilities since they seem out of place

3.the ability to steer and direct your vial rush

Things i hope you add to Lavos' kit: 

1.the ability to add an elemental damage multiplier on weapons each time Lavos uses one on one of his abilities

For example: i use Viral on an ability, i get a X% Viral damage buff for my weapons for a few seconds 

 

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I feel Lavos's elements should be tied to his passive instead of abilities, in the long term it would be better for him because his elements being tied to his abilities kind of locks him out of Hemlinth. If you take away an ability, you take away an element, thus you lose a critical piece of the elemental combos. Loosing an element to switch an ability really cripples his potential.

Ophidian Bite is good as is, no frame's first ability should one shot enemies. Though a damage buff would definitely help him out.

Vial dash is a good ability but a damage buff, slightly slower speed, and a larger aoe would make it leagues better

Transmutation Probe should have a base cdr and additional cdr when enemies are electricuted. 

Catalyze needs one of two things, 1.) A massive damage increase along with the transmutation probe cdr buff or 2.) 8-10 seconds off its current cool down. Realistically if the ability isnt wiping the room when i use it, it has no reason to take 35 seconds (gotta wait the 5 ability second duration before the actual cool down starts) to use again

Overall Lavos is an amazingly fun and intuitive frame but he realllyyy needs a buff

Edited by (PSN)DeltronX292
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My opinion PS4 player lavos I don’t know what can be done but the elemental infusions added to gameplay are complete garbage. They’re an extreme liability the hold functions time needs to be greatly reduced or some other button config needs to implemented. It’s just not fun to cast vial rush and then try infusing and get downed because your forced to walk out of vial rush and infusing takes so long because of the hold function. Even if we had the inverted casting like on pc now it would take to long to cast abilities. I feel like this was a good idea but it doesn’t reward the fact that I’ve already grinded out my arcanes why should my time invested be invalidated because you guys want to make us more vulnerable through cool downs and weak abilities. Enemies don’t stop shooting no matter what ability is cast on them so no matter what lavos is forced to take so much unnecessary damage. Vial rush is also and extreme liability because if you wanted extra range you go so far away from targets your vials spread to places they aren’t even going. You go so far with just stretch and augur reach that it exposes your back again unnecessarily I would say give a fair range but cap it as to not dash away so far targets get a free kill on players. Ophodian bite is cool but I would rather have a straight defensive ability. Transmutation probe needs to have a longer duration by default and occupy an aoe that continually reduces cool downs on all abilities overtime and damage. All in all I would rate this frame a 3/10 I can get max elemental procs and have a hard cc with just my proboscis cernos and have a better time and do better damage to enemies. Please make some serious changes because this ain’t it. 

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Overall, cool down are too long, especially for his 1 and 3.

 

Otherwise, just two fixes are needed.

First, Vial Rush disables toggled sprint. It’s annoying I have to rehold shift key every time I use Vial Rush.

Second, imbuing elements keeps my fingers too busy. You have to rehold keys every time an ability is casted, otherwise every ability damage is 1/2 compared to imbued. I’d suggest that an imbued element remains until it is overwritten by other elements.

 

 

 

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After testing Lavos on Steel Path, I can say I enjoy this frame a lot even if some little changes are needed to make him more reliable, mostly regarding survivability and fluidity.  

I have to admit that having to imbue elements before each cast makes him a pretty slow caster and kinda break his gameplay flow. Imbued element should stay for a certain duration or amont of casts, or maybe just stay until you imbue another element instead. This would make Lavos really more useable in a game where "one press nukes" exist.

One thing that is bothering me is that if you have imbued a combined element by mistake you can not replace it by imbuing another one unless you cast a skill to remove it, kinda waste of time considering the cooldowns mecanics. We should be able to replace imbued element just by "overimbuing" another one to prevent those clunky situations. 

Catalyser cooldown is pretty high though, even with a lot of efficiency to reduce it with transmutation probe. Maybe just 10 seconds shorter would make it more useable, considering the fact that Lavos already needs a lot of other stats and building efficiency is a waste of range/power strength/tankiness that are mandatory for Lavos. Catalyst lack of verticality range is also an issue, too much ennemies not being touched by an ability with such a long cooldown can be really frustrating and gameplay breaker.

Another thing that I find pretty disappointing is that if you replace one of Lavos ability with one from the Helminth, you can no longer imbue the removed skill element, making Lavos unable to enjoy the great helminth system. If only the elements were bound to the skill slot instead of the skill itself, and replacing the skill would still let us imbue the original element of the slot, Lavos could fully enjoy helminth modifications without losing its special mecanics.

With some tweaks regarding this issues, Lavos could really become one of my favorite frames, being a hack'n slash player for a long time i really like his cooldowns and combo mecanics, his damages are pretty high specially combined with his signature weapon Cedo, and his kit is versatile enough to feet his alchemist theme and makes him a good frame for squad or solo playing.  

 Just one last word to say that i really enjoy this update overall, Orphix Venom is pretty fun and challenging in the same time, and moreover it's really rewarding regarding the drop rate. It would be really cool if this game mode could stay or come back sometimes as a sentient invasion mission, as we already have invasions for all other factions. Deimos bounties changes are also great, same for Bonewidow's buff and other tweaks that have been made. Being critical is a thing and can be useful, but telling what is good must also be done and I have to say that overall this update is really good. Thanks for your work DE, keep it up !

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Le 24/01/2021 à 21:35, (PSN)palebluelight a dit :

My opinion PS4 player lavos I don’t know what can be done but the elemental infusions added to gameplay are complete garbage. They’re an extreme liability the hold functions time needs to be greatly reduced or some other button config needs to implemented. It’s just not fun to cast vial rush and then try infusing and get downed because your forced to walk out of vial rush and infusing takes so long because of the hold function. Even if we had the inverted casting like on pc now it would take to long to cast abilities. I feel like this was a good idea but it doesn’t reward the fact that I’ve already grinded out my arcanes why should my time invested be invalidated because you guys want to make us more vulnerable through cool downs and weak abilities. Enemies don’t stop shooting no matter what ability is cast on them so no matter what lavos is forced to take so much unnecessary damage. Vial rush is also and extreme liability because if you wanted extra range you go so far away from targets your vials spread to places they aren’t even going. You go so far with just stretch and augur reach that it exposes your back again unnecessarily I would say give a fair range but cap it as to not dash away so far targets get a free kill on players. Ophodian bite is cool but I would rather have a straight defensive ability. Transmutation probe needs to have a longer duration by default and occupy an aoe that continually reduces cool downs on all abilities overtime and damage. All in all I would rate this frame a 3/10 I can get max elemental procs and have a hard cc with just my proboscis cernos and have a better time and do better damage to enemies. Please make some serious changes because this ain’t it. 

Go check the options dude, you can already invert tap/hold and the update added the possibility to set it up differently for each frame. And remember that some elements can provide good crowd control, vial rush with radiation imbued for exemple, or Transmutation Probe with fire. And vial rush can be stopped when you want by recasting it so it can explode where you want and not expose your back even with a lot of range, same for Transmutation Probe. You may have tested the frame a bit more before being so tough, also you can crticize without being rude and saying thing are garbage,  specially when you obviously didn't tested out enough to know what you're talking about. 

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25 minutes ago, (NSW)NabotLysergeek said:

And remember that some elements can provide good crowd control, vial rush with radiation imbued for exemple, or Transmutation Probe with fire.

I wouldn't call Vial Rush 'good crowd control'. The carpet it pulls up is randomised and has gaps all over the place. If you carve a path through an enemy crowd, there's just too big of a chance that targets don't get hit, and the carpet left behind has too many holes in it to serve as point denial. And it doesn't last long, either. And, as mentioned, it displaces you without much control. 

If it was just a carpet bombing line cast in front of Lavos, I'd be far more positive. Or, alternatively, if the lingering effect had a proper duration and AoE, I'd be more keen on it too. But as it is, all the drawbacks just feel like you have to wrestle the ability into submission to get it to work. 

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Console tenno here, after playing Lavos fo some time.
 As first post said - combining gets really annoying over the time. Lavos should have the added element until he adds another one. Like, if he adds COLD - it should add COLD on all his abilities UNTIL he adds another element, for example TOXIN to make it VIRAL. And then all his abilities would add VIRAL until player holds the button to add another element - then VIRAL would dissapear and it's place would take another element.


3rd ability needs to fly  in the direction of crosshair. Right now it flies horizontally whenever player looks straight ahead, up or down. It should fly up if player looks up, down if player looks down and etc. so we could hit targets upstairs, or in the air - or downstairs, or send ability down from air.

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So after playing Lavos, which I have really enjoyed his design but I have come across a few interesting points in his design. 

PASSIVE
His passive is simple and unique I enjoy it even if I am not sure how useful it really is in the long run, the only real note here is actually a piece of his stats. 
Lavos's shields feel a bit redundant on him, partially because he has a high armor value take can be easily capitalized on and the use of Ophidian bite just give him a large volume of tank, if the shields were to be removed I think I would suggest a naturally growing duration stat in place of. 

OPHIDIAN BITE
One of my favorite abilities of his kit, really only found one consistent issue which is its range/ability to tell what it will hit,  I have missed with the attack quite a bit just due to not being able to tell where it will land or over estimating the distance, a bit of a range finder could be a useful QoL improvement for it. 

VIAL RUSH
Don't really have anything to comment on this ability its been useful and fun.

TRANSMUTATION PROBE
So my suggestion with Transmutation Probe is an either/or with the Catalyze suggestion as I would rather only have one of the two options. My only real issue with this is it feels amazing to use it as a set up for Catalyze the ability which benefits the most from the cool down reduction so I would like to see more of a prime status effect that on kill reduces the cool down of the other ability or for the cool down effect to be removed, along with the catalyst suggestion being implemented.

CATALYZE
My suggestion with catalyst initial is two-fold, as an ability in the kit its extra length cool down means I feel its underused for me personally, while using the other abilities I often forget to pull catalyst into the chain just because I cannot consistently work in into my loop, so I would enjoy either a shorter cooldown or the suggestion above and maybe both, honestly I would have to have the chance to test the loop and see how it feels organically, I just know at the moment its lackluster. 

My second suggestion is more a preference but it function in a 3rd space would be wonderful even though I realize its unlikely.

ALCHEMICAL VIAL
The ability to mix elements and make alchemical mixtures on the battlefield I think is amazing, my only real issue is how the system preforms on console, so to fix the difficulty of using the system on console I do think it would be a wonderful QoL improvement to allow the vial to stay full for either a preset period of time and then empty, a number of abilities cast and then empty, or for the vial to be filled and after a 5 second mixing period any commands input into the vial would first empty the current mixture then fill it with the new mixture. 

It not that I don't enjoy the mixture system its just it adds a lot of additional complexity to his kit that I just don't feel is needed with the current layout of missions being primarily a single faction and a primary health/shield/armor type so I just only make a mixture or two and to make a mixture like magnetic it forces me to remain stationary for a few moments that slog down the combat and mission in a way that feels robotic as I try and remix the vial in the casting of my current ability. 

Anyways with much thanks to Whomever does read this
Super Salty 

 

 

Edited by (PSN)SUPER_SALTY
Accidently hit enter before getting all information down, was working off discord interface mentally or maybe markdown
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Lavos cooldowns are terrible, especially his 4th which is an unmodified 30s long, it only hitenemy once and hasnt got good range above/below it either. Making the the ability unfesable to use effectively. The probe is useless at reducing cooldowns altogether in most mission conditions.

Edited by (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson
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Le 26/01/2021 à 14:10, Colyeses a dit :

I wouldn't call Vial Rush 'good crowd control'. The carpet it pulls up is randomised and has gaps all over the place. If you carve a path through an enemy crowd, there's just too big of a chance that targets don't get hit, and the carpet left behind has too many holes in it to serve as point denial. And it doesn't last long, either. And, as mentioned, it displaces you without much control. 

If it was just a carpet bombing line cast in front of Lavos, I'd be far more positive. Or, alternatively, if the lingering effect had a proper duration and AoE, I'd be more keen on it too. But as it is, all the drawbacks just feel like you have to wrestle the ability into submission to get it to work. 

I can understand the issues you're pointing there. But adding some duration makes all status effects longer, and some range makes vials and final explosion of the ability pretty reliable for crowd control as it has guaranteed status proc and fills the holes in the carpet. That's why i keep thinking it's a good cc ability with radiation, electricity or even fire imbued, added to the original cold that slows the ennemies down. I'm playing only Lavos since 3 days i got him crafted, and in my opinion the lack of crowd control is not the main deal about him. Issues like not being able to aim his 1 and 3, the lack of vertical range on his 4, the need to imbue elements again after each cast or not being able to replace imbued elements are the most important issues that need to be adressed quickly to make Lavos less clunky and more reliable. But even with those said defaults,  I still enjoy playing him a lot, he makes what he's been made for : spreading status. My squad mates can now spam their condition overloaded melee like crazy without caring about applying any status lmao. Playing Lavos as tank/frontlaner debuffing ennemies for my mates is really my kind of gameplay, it brings back a new interest for playing in squad to me.

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When you level up frames (for the first time or after forma'ing it) you get free energy. It would be nice if Lavos could get cooldowns reset.

It's not very important but "it's nice thing to have".

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On 1/26/2021 at 9:09 PM, (PSN)SUPER_SALTY said:

So after playing Lavos, which I have really enjoyed his design but I have come across a few interesting points in his design. 

PASSIVE
His passive is simple and unique I enjoy it even if I am not sure how useful it really is in the long run, the only real note here is actually a piece of his stats. 
Lavos's shields feel a bit redundant on him, partially because he has a high armor value take can be easily capitalized on and the use of Ophidian bite just give him a large volume of tank, if the shields were to be removed I think I would suggest a naturally growing duration stat in place of. 

OPHIDIAN BITE
One of my favorite abilities of his kit, really only found one consistent issue which is its range/ability to tell what it will hit,  I have missed with the attack quite a bit just due to not being able to tell where it will land or over estimating the distance, a bit of a range finder could be a useful QoL improvement for it. 

VIAL RUSH
Don't really have anything to comment on this ability its been useful and fun.

TRANSMUTATION PROBE
So my suggestion with Transmutation Probe is an either/or with the Catalyze suggestion as I would rather only have one of the two options. My only real issue with this is it feels amazing to use it as a set up for Catalyze the ability which benefits the most from the cool down reduction so I would like to see more of a prime status effect that on kill reduces the cool down of the other ability or for the cool down effect to be removed, along with the catalyst suggestion being implemented.

CATALYZE
My suggestion with catalyst initial is two-fold, as an ability in the kit its extra length cool down means I feel its underused for me personally, while using the other abilities I often forget to pull catalyst into the chain just because I cannot consistently work in into my loop, so I would enjoy either a shorter cooldown or the suggestion above and maybe both, honestly I would have to have the chance to test the loop and see how it feels organically, I just know at the moment its lackluster. 

My second suggestion is more a preference but it function in a 3rd space would be wonderful even though I realize its unlikely.

ALCHEMICAL VIAL
The ability to mix elements and make alchemical mixtures on the battlefield I think is amazing, my only real issue is how the system preforms on console, so to fix the difficulty of using the system on console I do think it would be a wonderful QoL improvement to allow the vial to stay full for either a preset period of time and then empty, a number of abilities cast and then empty, or for the vial to be filled and after a 5 second mixing period any commands input into the vial would first empty the current mixture then fill it with the new mixture. 

It not that I don't enjoy the mixture system its just it adds a lot of additional complexity to his kit that I just don't feel is needed with the current layout of missions being primarily a single faction and a primary health/shield/armor type so I just only make a mixture or two and to make a mixture like magnetic it forces me to remain stationary for a few moments that slog down the combat and mission in a way that feels robotic as I try and remix the vial in the casting of my current ability. 

Anyways with much thanks to Whomever does read this
Super Salty 

 

 

I've got everything frame cept loki and loki prime,<been waiting on prime systems for 18 months>. I'm sure other frames may be capable at lvl 0, but I've not seen it. 2 days ago I first got Lavos, lvl 0 30 cap usual str+ mods and health and adaptation. Etc. 1st mission void survival Mot. Went 55 minutes and could have gone longer but switch was almost dead. I knew very little about his abilities or their affects, but did see Squad leader giving DE mad props on his overall design. For me, he's right up my alley, all abilities are useful once you figure out the synergy. Ive only had him 2 days haven't yet figured everything out,, like most efficient ability rotations, and ability synergies.

His 3 could use maybe 5-10 sec CD reduction, his 1, I feel like I miss more than I freaking hit, nice to know I'm not the only 1. As for now he's just as good or better as my first impressions of Hildabeast and Baruuk. 

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2 minutes ago, (NSW)lego126 said:

I've got everything frame cept loki and loki prime,<been waiting on prime systems for 18 months>. I'm sure other frames may be capable at lvl 0, but I've not seen it. 2 days ago I first got Lavos, lvl 0 30 cap usual str+ mods and health and adaptation. Etc. 1st mission void survival Mot. Went 55 minutes and could have gone longer but switch was almost dead. I knew very little about his abilities or their affects, but did see Squad leader giving DE mad props on his overall design. For me, he's right up my alley, all abilities are useful once you figure out the synergy. Ive only had him 2 days haven't yet figured everything out,, like most efficient ability rotations, and ability synergies.

His 3 could use maybe 5-10 sec CD reduction, his 1, I feel like I miss more than I freaking hit, nice to know I'm not the only 1. As for now he's just as good or better as my first impressions of Hildabeast and Baruuk. 

Last thing, about having vials last for multiple cast or something. I do feel like I'm rushing alot trying imbue next ability before procs start wearing off. I'm guessing because I've not had him  in the simulacrum for ability proc duration at 100% or my usual<2 days> 171% duration. 

I like it the way it is for now<his 3 i mean> except for the CD, maybe after a couple weeks or controller time with him ill feel more like you guys that have had him for longer.

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On 1/22/2021 at 1:41 PM, Rauvian said:

A cooldown system does not really lend itself well to Warframe. Most warframes "break the game" once they are fully decked out. As a nuke frame

His 1 needs to be a multi hit

His 1 spreads 100 degree arc from the way he's facing if I'm not mistaking. It would be nice if his 1 would clump all enemies<ferrox style> in range in a nice little pile for his 2-4-3. Instead of having to use mag anomaly.

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On 1/24/2021 at 3:35 PM, (PSN)palebluelight said:

 Enemies don’t stop shooting no matter what ability is cast on them so no matter what lavos is forced to take so much unnecessary damage. 

"Enemies affected by a Heat b.png Heat proc are ignited in flames and will panic and flail around for a few seconds, preventing them from taking any other actions"

Enemies set on fire do not keep shooting. 

"The status effect of Radiation b.png Radiation damage is Confusion. It changes the faction of the afflicted target for 12 seconds, allowing for friendly fire between it and normally allied units"

Are you sure you play Warframe?.?.?Just messing man, he's a monster, just give him a chance.

 

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On 12/17/2020 at 3:54 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Hold any Ability to imbue the next cast with additional Elemental Damage and Status. 

After playing lavos on ps4 this is a huge pain to use for what little it offers, i agree with others who say that we should have multiple uses of the ability before it resets

I actually dont see purpose for us to not have infinite uses to be honest. 

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Lavos needs "infused elements remain until new elements are infused"

It is absolutely, no fun having to hit 2 or 3 inputs every time I wanna use an ability. I know I could use them without infusing every cast, but then could use "non infused abilities" with any Warframe really. All the inputs put Lavos in similar tier as Inaros imo.

And don't make it an Augment Mod, like Grendels canonball

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