Necramechs - How Can We Heal Them?

[GkarB5]

Please reply with info describing how to heal (recover/regenerate) health on the 2 Necramechs we currently have: Voidrig & Bone Widow.

It would be very much appreciated if DE could add an in-game tooltip (to each Necramech) detailing methods for health regen.

Some new info: 

It looks like there are some very limited healing options for Necramechs, but we need much better (and more varied) options:

1) Mod: Necramech Repair - at max rank, it restores 10% of health per second over 3 seconds when health drops below 20%. It has a 15 second cooldown.

2) THIS IS ONLY FOR THE BONEWIDOW NECRAMECH:  It's 1st ability: Meathook:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Meathook

"While hooked, the enemy target receives Impact damage per second, with the damage amount based on 5% / 10% / ?% / ?% of its maximum health points; 25% / 30% / ?% / ?% of each damage instance is also converted into Health points to continuously repair Bonewidow every second.
Energy cost is affected by Ability Efficiency.
Damage per second and lifesteal conversion are affected by Ability Strength."

 

[Limbo_Darkness]

With the recent update, there are 0 ways to heal Necramechs, as DE has decided it was unintended for the few methods there were to exist.

[GkarB5]

5 minutes ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

With the recent update, there are 0 ways to heal Necramechs, as DE has decided it was unintended for the few methods there were to exist.

This is quite upsetting & aggravating for players (like myself) that generally enjoy using Necramechs - but are extremely frustrated by the fact that they can lose their health very quickly & die.  I truly hope that DE will work very hard to remedy this unfortunate situation ASAP. 

[Dhrekr]

One of the new mods offers a 10% heal/second for three seconds. Activates at 20%, so brings you back to 50%.

Otherwise yes, we really need healing.

[trunks013]

 

19 minutes ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

With the recent update, there are 0 ways to heal Necramechs, as DE has decided it was unintended for the few methods there were to exist.

Wait necrhamech repair does not work at all ?

[GkarB5]

3 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

 

Wait necrhamech repair does not work at all ?

Necramech Repair was very recently added & I haven't gotten it yet & tested it out.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

35 minutes ago, trunks013 said:

 

Wait necrhamech repair does not work at all ?

I know you were just being sarcastic, but I would argue that it does not function as "healing" in the sense that it cannot heal your mech back to full under any conditions.  It's a bandaid that you have to grind for and manage to fit into your build to replace all the options they just removed because of this event.  "these options slipped through" my ass.  Convenient that they only caught them right before we actually needed mechs to be useful.

[Mephane]

47 minutes ago, GkarB5 said:

Necramech Repair was very recently added & I haven't gotten it yet & tested it out.

Well I have, and it sucks. Under the absolutely best conditions it can bring you back to 50% every 15 seconds, that is if you drop just below 20% and then don't receive any more damage. It might be possible to juggle Stormshroud and this mod's cooldown when combined with the new Necramech rage mod, but I doubt it will be enough in higher level content.

[Loza03]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I know you were just being sarcastic, but I would argue that it does not function as "healing" in the sense that it cannot heal your mech back to full under any conditions.  It's a bandaid that you have to grind for and manage to fit into your build to replace all the options they just removed because of this event.  "these options slipped through" my ass.  Convenient that they only caught them right before we actually needed mechs to be useful.

Personally, I would argue that's a good thing... on paper.

Necramechs should have more weaknesses than Warframes, in exchange for their higher output and 0 cost of death. Giving them a highly rigid health and energy economy fits that definition. And it's not like most forms of healing worked before, so those clearly were exceptions to the rule.

 

Of course, if that's the design intent, then DE probably shouldn't have made the event an Endurance mission. But then people would probably complain about lack of leaderboards, content drought, whatever, so rock and a hard place. 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, Loza03 said:

so rock and a hard place.

That they put themselves in.  

[Loza03]

Just now, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

That they put themselves in.  

It's hardly DE's fault that that the community would get toxic and angry if they made a good design choice, is it?

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, Loza03 said:

good design choice

I don't think DE is at risk of doing that even without a community.

Also, I know this is hard for DE to understand, but there are mission types and design choices to make that involve having content without having endurance missions based around Mobile Defense themes and/or arbitrary timers.  It is possible to make a long running event, even one where you are intended to grind the event repeatedly, where you wouldn't have to have mechs built for sustain and endurance (when you can't really build them for sustain and endurance because you can't properly heal them.) or have a long running, repeatable event where it doesn't break if mechs are sustainable.  That requires actual thought and work though, and why do that when you can just make everything a copy with a slight twist?

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Honestly, just by the math, Necramech Repair is trash.  It will only ever heal you for 30% of your max health.  That means that at the absolute best, it effectively halves your max health, because anything over 50% (30% that it can heal, 20% to get it to trigger.) is just "over-health" now.  Once you lose that health, it's gone until your mech blows up and you wait however long to resummon.  So you have 50% of your health at best that's sustainable.  As soon as they dip you down to 19% of your health, it still only heals 30% max so you're now down to 49% as your new max.  You could theoretically end up with 31% of your max health as the only health you can sustain, and that's with giving up a mod slot.

On top of that, the inability to heal effectively makes the Necramech Rage mod useless.  It requires health damage to work, so if you want to slot it in and actually make use of it to deal with the horrible base energy economy that Necramechs force you to suffer through, it pretty much requires that you slot in Repair, which guarantees that you have, again, at best effectively halved the max health of a machine that already wasn't that stout to begin with.

Plus, with the nerfing of all healing methods outside this junk mod, they have further lowered build diversity.  You could make a pretty clean argument that 9 of your mech slots are already pre-filled with mods that are kind of mandatory if you want your mech to not be trash.  Power Strength, Duration, Flow, Efficiency, Armor, Health, Shield, Engine max, Engine Efficiency, and now Repair and of course Radar (because heaven forbid they give us basic quality of life functionality without it being a goddamn mod.) make 11.  You get 1 slot to figure out how differently you want to build your mech from everyone else.  Or you can gimp your mech.  So much fun!  So many options!

[Loza03]

31 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I don't think DE is at risk of doing that even without a community.

They must be doing something right, since we're all still here to begin with.

32 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Also, I know this is hard for DE to understand, but there are mission types and design choices to make that involve having content without having endurance missions based around Mobile Defense themes and/or arbitrary timers.  It is possible to make a long running event, even one where you are intended to grind the event repeatedly, where you wouldn't have to have mechs built for sustain and endurance (when you can't really build them for sustain and endurance because you can't properly heal them.) or have a long running, repeatable event where it doesn't break if mechs are sustainable.  That requires actual thought and work though, and why do that when you can just make everything a copy with a slight twist?

And what do you suggest they do to achieve that without making hard balancing decisions that withhold power from the player, like the one you're giving them heat about? The kind they've received consistent pushback for?

Because, I remind you, this isn't mobile defence #367. You don't win the mission by waiting out a timer or protecting a thing or anything. The only timers there are (the hidden ones before the next Orthix spawn) have a direct, non-arbitrary effect on gameplay, as the means by which the 'endurance' aspect kicks in. If the player can successfully defeat an Orthix in the alotted time so there are none on the field, the mission-failure gauge drops to 0. If they don't, a second Orthix Spawns and their job is made harder. Repeat until player can no longer sustain themselves. Unless I'm forgetting something, there is no mission type like this - the closest is survival, but it manifests completely differently with a different loop. This is new. Genuinely original, and what the community asked for to boot. 

Of course, that doesn't change that the Necramech's involvement is flawed. But then that goes back to the original point, that a good design necessitates good balance. And let's be real here, this game mode would get destroyed by Warframes, because they simply are not balanced, and do not have reasonable power limitations put in place. And god help DE if they ever decide to do something about that.

[FooldudeDalis]

Man, it sure is a shame that there's no Necramech with 500 base armor, a good amount of health, and a cheap but strong heal on her 1, with an exalted melee that penetrates the Orphix armor without having to hit the weakpoint (minus heavy attack projectile)(could be a bug and patched later), taking me past 24 waves on the endurance solo while still having 3 mod slots empty because I put on the last forma just before the update dropped.  That would be nice.  I guess I'll just have to use Voidrig with its literally impenetrable barrier and not take damage in the first place.

No but seriously, how are people dying with their Necramechs?  I could understand being upset at the nerf if healing was necessary, but unless you're popping out of Voidrig every 5 second, which if I'm not mistaken will cause Storm Shroud to drop (and will probably happen if you don't have a good enough archgun to drop Sentients without resetting resistances, or if you are doing certain bounties), you should survive until level 100 at least.

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Plus, with the nerfing of all healing methods outside this junk mod, they have further lowered build diversity.  You could make a pretty clean argument that 9 of your mech slots are already pre-filled with mods that are kind of mandatory if you want your mech to not be trash.  Power Strength, Duration, Flow, Efficiency, Armor, Health, Shield, Engine max, Engine Efficiency, and now Repair and of course Radar (because heaven forbid they give us basic quality of life functionality without it being a goddamn mod.) make 11.

Added bonus, I was not using Strength, Duration, Efficiency, Engine Max or Repair and Radar, though you could argue Necramech Fury is mandatory because Ironbride is so slow otherwise, with Pressure Point being borderline.  Double bonus, strength is the only one I will definitely put on.  Streamline maybe, but Rage is putting in the work.  Might put in Rebuke if you don't have to top up to 100% shields first to get the full effect, because hey radial stun on the melee mech would help.  Probably not radar because I'm not blind or deaf.

TL;DR this is the dreaded "git gud" post, abandon hope all ye who can't.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

11 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

They must be doing something right, since we're all still here to begin with.

They George Lucas'd it.  Made some really good (lucky) choices and pulled from the right inspirations for the original concepts, then after success just started losing their minds tacking on BS because of their "true vision for the universe."  Han shot first, by the way.  Every update gets worse.  The worsening only comes from two places:  The need for added grind that comes from a need to constantly squeeze more and more from players to protect the bottom line, regardless of player count, and from them disregarding player feedback in favor of following their "vision" and "intentions" for the game.  Some of the best additions to this game were things players wanted and fought for.  Before you ask "why you are still playing then?"  Mind your business.

 

16 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

do not have reasonable power limitations put in place. And god help DE if they ever decide to do something about that.

They are the ones that introduce power creep.  They are the ones that then introduce a reason for us to need that power creep.  They then introduce more creep, and then more reasons for needing that creep.  "You don't need millions of damage!"  The the enemy doesn't need even more millions of EHP!  You gotta pick one, but they won't.  They either introduce power creep, then put in reasons why it needs to stay, or they nerf power creep without nerfing the things we use that power creep on.  The hilariously bad discrepancy between the power levels of an MR 5 and an MR 30 exist because of DE.  You can blame the players all you want for it, it's still DE's fault.  They are the ones that design themselves into these corners.  

Your whole point, as I understood it, is that the only reason the nerfs to healing were bad is because they expect players to sustain while in mechs because of the mission design and mechs aren't built for sustain.  What would I do about it?  I wouldn't have designed the missions to require constant mech use so that the mechs didn't require sustain.  I would have mechs regenerate while not in use, so that for non-mech portions, they could get topped up.  They are the ones that made the design choices here, and you're acting like there were no other options because of the community and that holds zero water.  There's a thousand ways to make a mission.  This wasn't the best choice if they were going to do the other things they did, like nerf healing.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

3 minutes ago, FooldudeDalis said:

-snip-

You're talking about the event.  I'm talking about mechs in general.  These are not good changes just because the event is playable.  I don't care if the event is playable, because those are not the points I'm addressing if you'd learn to read.

[GkarB5]

8 minutes ago, FooldudeDalis said:

Man, it sure is a shame that there's no Necramech with 500 base armor, a good amount of health, and a cheap but strong heal on her 1, with an exalted melee that penetrates the Orphix armor without having to hit the weakpoint (minus heavy attack projectile)(could be a bug and patched later), taking me past 24 waves on the endurance solo while still having 3 mod slots empty because I put on the last forma just before the update dropped.  That would be nice.  I guess I'll just have to use Voidrig with its literally impenetrable barrier and not take damage in the first place.

Quote

No but seriously, how are people dying with their Necramechs?  I could understand being upset at the nerf if healing was necessary, but unless you're popping out of Voidrig every 5 second, which if I'm not mistaken will cause Storm Shroud to drop (and will probably happen if you don't have a good enough archgun to drop Sentients without resetting resistances, or if you are doing certain bounties), you should survive until level 100 at least.

Added bonus, I was not using Strength, Duration, Efficiency, Engine Max or Repair and Radar, though you could argue Necramech Fury is mandatory because Ironbride is so slow otherwise, with Pressure Point being borderline.  Double bonus, strength is the only one I will definitely put on.  Streamline maybe, but Rage is putting in the work.  Might put in Rebuke if you don't have to top up to 100% shields first to get the full effect, because hey radial stun on the melee mech would help.  Probably not radar because I'm not blind or deaf.

TL;DR this is the dreaded "git gud" post, abandon hope all ye who can't.

Almost daily, I've been using the Voidrig Necramech with maxed Necramech Redirection, Steel Fiber & Vitality plus a maxed Mausolon arch-gun in Iso Vaults.  I enjoy using the Voidrig's 4th ability (Guard Mode) which requires me to stay immobile.  How much "git-gud" do I have to get in order to frequently use the Guard mode ability while at the same time remaining alive?  I'm not a big fan of his first 3 abilities & really do prefer the 4th. Would you advise that I just focus on keeping the Voidrig highly mobile & forget about  using Guard Mode?

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

They are the ones that introduce power creep.  They are the ones that then introduce a reason for us to need that power creep.  They then introduce more creep, and then more reasons for needing that creep.  "You don't need millions of damage!"  The the enemy doesn't need even more millions of EHP!  You gotta pick one, but they won't.  They either introduce power creep, then put in reasons why it needs to stay, or they nerf power creep without nerfing the things we use that power creep on.  The hilariously bad discrepancy between the power levels of an MR 5 and an MR 30 exist because of DE.  You can blame the players all you want for it, it's still DE's fault.  They are the ones that design themselves into these corners.  

You're oversimplifying the situation.

Yes, of course it's DE's fault for adding it. But at the same time, they're also doing it because the community asked and rewarded them for doing so. Should they have put their foot down? With the benefit of hindsight, sure. Of course, hindsight is 2020, foresight isn't. It's easy to look back and say when they made the bad decision - it's harder to say they should actively go against the community when you remember so much of their early success was predicated on listening to the community.

It's easy to suggest that DE could choose to stop the power creep whenever they want, but as the saying goes, it's easier said than done

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Your whole point, as I understood it, is that the only reason the nerfs to healing were bad is because they expect players to sustain while in mechs because of the mission design and mechs aren't built for sustain.  What would I do about it?  I wouldn't have designed the missions to require constant mech use so that the mechs didn't require sustain.  I would have mechs regenerate while not in use, so that for non-mech portions, they could get topped up.  They are the ones that made the design choices here, and you're acting like there were no other options because of the community and that holds zero water.  There's a thousand ways to make a mission.  This wasn't the best choice if they were going to do the other things they did, like nerf healing.

Easily said. Now consider doing it when you start remembering other factors:

Event doesn't require mech use - it gets completely destroyed by poorly-balanced frames.

You change the mechs to be sustainable in the rest of the game but are balanced for the event to work - that's power creep.

You change the mechs to regenerate when not in use - main problem still stands because you need to use the mech constantly to begin with.

You change the frames to not be poorly balanced - at best, you never get trusted with major design decisions as company profits tank because the community has been built on being poorly balanced.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, Loza03 said:

-snip-

You're arguing in circles and only addressing very specific parts of what I said, rather than addressing it as a whole.

[DrivaMain]

My pessimistic side said this is DE's sneaky way to make Bonewidow a viable choice...

DE just apply the healing objective restriction on necramechs to make them survivable.

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 3 horas, Dhrekr dijo:

One of the new mods offers a 10% heal/second for three seconds. Activates at 20%, so brings you back to 50%.

Otherwise yes, we really need healing.

Im F* tired of bandaid mods. 

Necras need a reliably way to recover HEALTH, ENERGY and SEE enemies in the minimap. 
Im not even asking for Vacuum, I ask for a built -in, Necramech ONLY way to heal and replenish energy.

[Loza03]

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

You're arguing in circles and only addressing very specific parts of what I said, rather than addressing it as a whole.

That's the nature of a vicious cycle.  DE's decisions lead to a bad community, which rewards them for making bad decisions.

Also most of your replies literally only highlight segments of sentences, so I really wouldn't go down that road if I were you. Talking from experience, ends badly.

[FooldudeDalis]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

You're talking about the event.  I'm talking about mechs in general.  These are not good changes just because the event is playable.  I don't care if the event is playable, because those are not the points I'm addressing if you'd learn to read.

Right, I guess level 70 sentients and corpus aren't a good metric of survivability, you are absolutely correct...So I took my level 18 Bonewidow out and did a steel-path Deimos bounty.  This has the added twist of certain infested (Carnis, Saxum, and Jugulus) not being grabable for healing.  Still didn't die, didn't use my frame in any relevant way (had to rush back to objective after I died as an Operator though), and only ran into the issue of Jugulus being incredibly tanky (the new heavy attack helps) and just not doing enough damage because Ironbride is level 0.  I also don't have Primed Rubedo Lined Barrel, so my archgun couldn't carry me.  I didn't die, was able to use her one where necessary to heal, bringing up the shield after the heal, while using Ironbride for damage.  I did have to hide behind rocks once when there were four Jugulus to recharge my shield, but I don't think that's necessarily a point against it.  Yeah, I need intensify on this build for damage, but while it would help for survivability, it's not necessary in that category.

Besides, if you think mechs that can't heal are bad, I can't wait until you see some of the frames on someone not running vazarin without health pizzas or healing arcanes...without lifestrike, or synth fiber, or a number of other mods I'm forgetting right now.  Wow, we really do have too many ways to heal right now.

1 hour ago, GkarB5 said:

Almost daily, I've been using the Voidrig Necramech with maxed Necramech Redirection, Steel Fiber & Vitality plus a maxed Mausolon arch-gun in Iso Vaults.  I enjoy using the Voidrig's 4th ability (Guard Mode) which requires me to stay immobile.  How much "git-gud" do I have to get in order to frequently use the Guard mode ability while at the same time remaining alive?  I'm not a big fan of his first 3 abilities & really do prefer the 4th. Would you advise that I just focus on keeping the Voidrig highly mobile & forget about  using Guard Mode?

It's a situational thing.  If you can keep Storm Shroud up, you can stay in guard-mode longer.  It's been a hot minute since I played Voidrig, but if you can disable storm-shroud on your own, learn when to do that so you can trigger it again when under attack (incoming damage for the first few seconds gets converted to Storm Shroud hp).  That being said, sometimes you gotta get outta dodge, like when a Carnis Rex is rolling into your face; they do a LOT of damage, though this assumes you can't kill them before they get there.  And the mod I mentioned, Necramech Rebuke, will CC everything in a certain radius when your shields go down, so you can have a chance to reposition and be readdy to activate Storm Shroud (Please DE, change Retribution to match this, that mod is useless unless you hate ancients so much you dedicate your build to countering them at the cost of everything else).  The biggest issue for Voidrig is gonna be energy, though I imagine Zenurik or Dispenser would take care of that.  That being said, his other two abilities...His one, Necraweb is *theoretically* good CC, but you can't do it in guard mode to slow things like said Carnis Rex, and the damage is not a good return on investment if you shoot the canister.  Gravemines aren't even mines, they're delayed explosives that have to compete with Guard Mode.  If the time they took to detonate sans-enemy contact weren't a paltry 2.5 seconds (not affected by duration) I'd say scatter them so you could target the rearguard with Guard Mode, but they're relatively useless.  Not absolutely, just not worth using one his current kit.

[trunks013]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I know you were just being sarcastic, but I would argue that it does not function as "healing" in the sense that it cannot heal your mech back to full under any conditions.  It's a bandaid that you have to grind for and manage to fit into your build to replace all the options they just removed because of this event.  "these options slipped through" my ass.  Convenient that they only caught them right before we actually needed mechs to be useful.

Healing is regaining health. To full health or not is not the definition at all you just redefined what healing means. That beig said i was not sarcastic but worryed that the mod was not working ^.^

That beign said i'm not saying its the best heal ever but with the rage mod and void rig we should calculate if there is a loophole there ^.^