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Necramechs - How Can We Heal Them?


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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Mephane:

Well I have, and it sucks. Under the absolutely best conditions it can bring you back to 50% every 15 seconds, that is if you drop just below 20% and then don't receive any more damage. It might be possible to juggle Stormshroud and this mod's cooldown when combined with the new Necramech rage mod, but I doubt it will be enough in higher level content.

yes, the mod is currently really for the garbage can. i play with voidrig and only need it (if at all) when i 1) have too little energy and 2) when i take too much damage. and that happens after 20+ rounds in new lvl 3 mission. and yes i have all def mods.
In other words, if I drop to 20% at all, then I probably need a 100% healing. otherwise I am dead!

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Roble_Viejo:

Im F* tired of bandaid mods. 

Necras need a reliably way to recover HEALTH, ENERGY and SEE enemies in the minimap. 
Im not even asking for Vacuum, I ask for a built -in, Necramech ONLY way to heal and replenish energy.

have you already figured out how to heal that thing? devs supposedly didn't fix everything "dead". there are still possibilities ?... according to the patch notes at least.

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hace 22 minutos, Battle.Mage dijo:

have you already figured out how to heal that thing? devs supposedly didn't fix everything "dead". there are still possibilities ?... according to the patch notes at least.

Nope. Vazarin dash doesnt work, orbs from dispenser doesnt work, none healing ability works. 

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5 hours ago, trunks013 said:

we should calculate if there is a loophole there

There is not, because:

 

7 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

On top of that, the inability to heal effectively makes the Necramech Rage mod useless.  It requires health damage to work, so if you want to slot it in and actually make use of it to deal with the horrible base energy economy that Necramechs force you to suffer through, it pretty much requires that you slot in Repair, which guarantees that you have, again, at best effectively halved the max health of a machine that already wasn't that stout to begin with.

 

5 hours ago, FooldudeDalis said:

-snip-

So one of the two mechs can heal, and if you want to put up with how clunky it is to use (because Bone Widow is clunky af.) it can deal okay damage.  This does nothing for the other Mech, and any other mech they release later that doesn't have her 1.  It's almost like the existence of her 1 actually makes my and OP's point that they should not have nerfed the healing sources we had, since she still has it, but Voidrig does not.  You're acting like the existence of a particular build and ability cycle on just Bone Widow justifies them nerfing healing on both the mechs and that is not a valid argument.  

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11 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

So one of the two mechs can heal, and if you want to put up with how clunky it is to use (because Bone Widow is clunky af.) it can deal okay damage.  This does nothing for the other Mech, and any other mech they release later that doesn't have her 1.  It's almost like the existence of her 1 actually makes my and OP's point that they should not have nerfed the healing sources we had, since she still has it, but Voidrig does not.  You're acting like the existence of a particular build and ability cycle on just Bone Widow justifies them nerfing healing on both the mechs and that is not a valid argument.  

So despite railing on me for not reading your post earlier, even though I was pointing out that necramechs on their own have great sustainability, you failed to read where I mentioned that Voidrig doesn't need healing?  Is Rhino a poor tank because he can't heal?  You do realize that Storm Shroud exists and absorbs damage, right?  There's the issue of it dropping when you go operator, and that can drain your energy real fast, but you don't put rage on it for the same reason you don't put it on Rhino...Because the enemy shouldn't be damaging its health in the first place.  It's the most shrug-and-move-on nerf ever, because one has a heal and the other doesn't need it with good energy management and timing (to maximize the initial absorption period).  If anything talking about the lack of healing on Voidrig is mistaking the symptom for the disease; you don't have enough energy for the survival skill, and it keeps dropping when you go operator, so you can't survive.  Maybe there's an energy economy issue, maybe you're using Guard Mode too much, or maybe there's just a leech eximus right out of sight.  Maybe it will be an issue on the next mech, maybe not, but that'll be an issue with that mech specifically, not the system.

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Just now, FooldudeDalis said:

Voidrig doesn't need healing?

If you have energy to sustain Shroud, sure.  Mechs use base energy economy, which is trash.  And there is no "energy management" when base energy economy is either a.) don't use energy for anything other than Shroud, to make sure you always have energy for when Shroud goes down, or b.) Pray to RNG that you get energy orb drops, and several of them since Energize doesn't work and 25 per orb isn't enough to cast Shroud.  And this is a poor copy of Iron Skin at best, and cannot be recast during the use of Guard Mode. 

 

 

Just now, FooldudeDalis said:

Is Rhino a poor tank because he can't heal?

Lmao.  Rhino has access to literally all of the healing they took from Mechs and more, you're invalidating your own points.

 

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11 hours ago, Limbo_Darkness said:

With the recent update, there are 0 ways to heal Necramechs, as DE has decided it was unintended for the few methods there were to exist.

I used to heal them with Vazarin dash. Was that also removed?

Edit: Nvm. Looks like it doesn't.

Edited by (PSN)mahoshonenfox
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19 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Pray to RNG that you get energy orb drops, and several of them since Energize doesn't work and 25 per orb isn't enough to cast Shroud.

It's 2.  50/25 is 2, Several means more than two. If you're using streamline, that means you have 15 as a surplus.  Maybe try activating Storm Shroud when more enemies are firing at you so it lasts longer.

21 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Lmao.  Rhino has access to literally all of the healing they took from Mechs and more, you're invalidating your own points.

Ah yes, I forgot Rhino has Mend, Blessing, and Vazarin dash even if your focus school is something else, can't even remove that Rejuvination Aura or Arcane Pulse for something better.  Shame they force you to use something so unnecessary when playing him.

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I don't know why DE has this aversion to things healing in the game. I have 4 different ways to heal a regular warframe:

1 - Magis Elevate

2 - Arcane grace

3 - Hunter Recovery on Panzer_Vulpaphyla

4 - Health pads

Now you may note that 2 of these are quite difficult to get, Magis mods require 210,000 standing from Quill Onko to max out, and Arcane grace requires a ton of Eidolon hunting (or Scarlet spear/Orphix) to get. Which leaves you energy pads and a pet (at least the Panzer kitteh can heal you when it's down because it can still attack, but this is spotty at best). Even with all this, it's still possible to wear out Inaros' health in things like the steel path.

With the Voidrig, it was still a pain to recharge it's health with Healing dash but at least you could use it. Trinity's 4? 100 energy for 500 health? what a joke.

At least I have a maxed out Bonewidow and Kuva Ayanga (or Morgha) which make quick work of the Orphix. But not many people have a decent archguns, which is why the Voidrig still gets used. It makes attacking the Orphix reasonable because they can't be affected by status. But again the problem is keeping the thing alive. It's health will get whittled down eventually, and if you croak in the middle of an Orphix your operator is borderline useless to attack it.

I'm not really complaining for my sake, but I ran a mission where my Voidrig got downed and all 3 of the other guys combined couldn't destroy the dumb thing.... Guess the Voidrig just gets put in the trash pile?

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29 минут назад, FooldudeDalis сказал:

Ah yes, I forgot Rhino has Mend, Blessing, and Vazarin dash even if your focus school is something else, can't even remove that Rejuvination Aura or Arcane Pulse for something better.  Shame they force you to use something so unnecessary when playing him.

Rhino might have teammates who either have said things or, at the very least, can revive him, while Necramechs now have none of that. 

And, by the way, Storm Shroud's description doesn't tell you about damage absorption period in-game, it just says "you have 3 seconds of invulnerability, good luck", so I am pretty sure that most of the people cast it before engaging enemies and their ~2k of Shroud get wasted immediately.

Edited by PackoJI6ac
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13 hours ago, FooldudeDalis said:

It's 2.  50/25 is 2, Several means more than two. If you're using streamline, that means you have 15 as a surplus.  Maybe try activating Storm Shroud when more enemies are firing at you so it lasts longer.

Ah yes, because you only need to cast it once and there is no reason to have more than enough to cast it again, or use other abilities.

 

13 hours ago, FooldudeDalis said:

Ah yes, I forgot Rhino has Mend, Blessing, and Vazarin dash even if your focus school is something else, can't even remove that Rejuvination Aura or Arcane Pulse for something better.  Shame they force you to use something so unnecessary when playing him.

Just like Voidrig didn't have any of those, but was healable by them, Rhino doesn't have them but is healable by all of them and more.  That was the entire point being discussed.  The removal of things that healed mechs that were not on mechs.  

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DE wants us to hate the new necramechs they made, stop using vazarin, but also never use warframes again and re-accept their terrible stamina system of old.
 

I'm honestly not sure what's going on anymore. I'm still not sure why necramechs even exist tbh. This is a game about warframes, it is literally in the title. I don't want to sound like a killjoy, I know some are going to say "it's fun, that's the point". 

But as a video game designer you need to have a plan, not just "Throw stuff in because it looks cool", and I feel like those who are looking for an answer of WHY? on the Necramech, I have a feeling that IS the answer. It looked cool and they wanted to, so they squeezed it in even if it doesn't really make much sense for a game where we already have much faster and more maneuverable "mechs" that will be much more effective than these things unless literally forced to use them, because of both maneuverability and our amazing mod collections. Whereas even getting a few necramech mods is a nightmare pain right now. 

I love DE, but the way necramechs are being introduced to the game tells me everything I need to know about their purpose in the game, and it's not a good look. My feedback is, put stuff in because the game needs it, don't shoehorn in stuff the devs think is cool without taking the time to think first if it really fits in the game. 

 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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19 minutes ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

I have 4 different ways to heal a regular warframe:

1 - Magis Elevate

2 - Arcane grace

3 - Hunter Recovery on Panzer_Vulpaphyla

4 - Health pads

Vazarin, Magus Repair, Subsumed Well of Life, Subsumed Blood Altar, technically (though it's trash) subsumed Desiccate, Subsumed Dispensary, Odo Medic, Medi-Ray, Life Strike, Healing Return, a handful of Syndicate procs, and I'm honestly still probably missing a few things.

There's a ton of ways to heal and that's a good thing.  Unless you're DE looking at mechs, apparently. 

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43 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

DE wants us to hate the new necramechs they made, stop using vazarin, but also never use warframes again and re-accept their terrible stamina system of old.
 

I'm honestly not sure what's going on anymore.


I'm pretty sure these will be used as points to bring new stuff into the game.

  • Instead of mech healing, we'll get a healable mech.
  • Instead of mech stamina disappearing, we'll get a mech without stamina.
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5 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

There is not, because:

 

 

So one of the two mechs can heal, and if you want to put up with how clunky it is to use (because Bone Widow is clunky af.) it can deal okay damage.  This does nothing for the other Mech, and any other mech they release later that doesn't have her 1.  It's almost like the existence of her 1 actually makes my and OP's point that they should not have nerfed the healing sources we had, since she still has it, but Voidrig does not.  You're acting like the existence of a particular build and ability cycle on just Bone Widow justifies them nerfing healing on both the mechs and that is not a valid argument.  

Just tested it and what you said its actualy false of course you seems to redefine a lot of words so maybe in your perception is not.

Basicly the rage and the repair mod together provide unlimited necramech equivalnet of iron skin its true but in the current event you must watch your health constantly.

That being said its not working properly there is a bug preventing mech from using all abilities and transference so in the current state of things there is a situation where you can't heal and can't shield a necramech.

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22 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I don't think DE is at risk of doing that even without a community.

Also, I know this is hard for DE to understand, but there are mission types and design choices to make that involve having content without having endurance missions based around Mobile Defense themes and/or arbitrary timers.  It is possible to make a long running event, even one where you are intended to grind the event repeatedly, where you wouldn't have to have mechs built for sustain and endurance (when you can't really build them for sustain and endurance because you can't properly heal them.) or have a long running, repeatable event where it doesn't break if mechs are sustainable.  That requires actual thought and work though, and why do that when you can just make everything a copy with a slight twist?

Well said !! 

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1 hour ago, ConsumerJTC said:

With the combination of three mods; augur, rage and that heal thing I'd say even voidrig wont have a problem in dying at levels that arent sortie and above.

If you keep his 2 up, you don't need to slot any of those.

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21 hours ago, FooldudeDalis said:

Right, I guess level 70 sentients and corpus aren't a good metric of survivability, you are absolutely correct...So I took my level 18 Bonewidow out and did a steel-path Deimos bounty.  This has the added twist of certain infested (Carnis, Saxum, and Jugulus) not being grabable for healing.  Still didn't die, didn't use my frame in any relevant way (had to rush back to objective after I died as an Operator though), and only ran into the issue of Jugulus being incredibly tanky (the new heavy attack helps) and just not doing enough damage because Ironbride is level 0.  I also don't have Primed Rubedo Lined Barrel, so my archgun couldn't carry me.  I didn't die, was able to use her one where necessary to heal, bringing up the shield after the heal, while using Ironbride for damage.  I did have to hide behind rocks once when there were four Jugulus to recharge my shield, but I don't think that's necessarily a point against it.  Yeah, I need intensify on this build for damage, but while it would help for survivability, it's not necessary in that category.

Besides, if you think mechs that can't heal are bad, I can't wait until you see some of the frames on someone not running vazarin without health pizzas or healing arcanes...without lifestrike, or synth fiber, or a number of other mods I'm forgetting right now.  Wow, we really do have too many ways to heal right now.

It's a situational thing.  If you can keep Storm Shroud up, you can stay in guard-mode longer.  It's been a hot minute since I played Voidrig, but if you can disable storm-shroud on your own, learn when to do that so you can trigger it again when under attack (incoming damage for the first few seconds gets converted to Storm Shroud hp).  That being said, sometimes you gotta get outta dodge, like when a Carnis Rex is rolling into your face; they do a LOT of damage, though this assumes you can't kill them before they get there.  And the mod I mentioned, Necramech Rebuke, will CC everything in a certain radius when your shields go down, so you can have a chance to reposition and be readdy to activate Storm Shroud (Please DE, change Retribution to match this, that mod is useless unless you hate ancients so much you dedicate your build to countering them at the cost of everything else).  The biggest issue for Voidrig is gonna be energy, though I imagine Zenurik or Dispenser would take care of that.  That being said, his other two abilities...His one, Necraweb is *theoretically* good CC, but you can't do it in guard mode to slow things like said Carnis Rex, and the damage is not a good return on investment if you shoot the canister.  Gravemines aren't even mines, they're delayed explosives that have to compete with Guard Mode.  If the time they took to detonate sans-enemy contact weren't a paltry 2.5 seconds (not affected by duration) I'd say scatter them so you could target the rearguard with Guard Mode, but they're relatively useless.  Not absolutely, just not worth using one his current kit.

Thank you very much for this very important explanation on how to increase Voidrig's survivability! 😀  I followed your advice last night during Operation Orphix Venom and it helped me keep my Voidrig alive longer.   It's still quite discouraging that we don't have at least several good options to heal Voidrig.  We do have the Necramech Repair mod which may help at least a tiny bit.

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15 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

If you have energy to sustain Shroud, sure.  Mechs use base energy economy, which is trash.  And there is no "energy management" when base energy economy is either a.) don't use energy for anything other than Shroud, to make sure you always have energy for when Shroud goes down, or b.) Pray to RNG that you get energy orb drops, and several of them since Energize doesn't work and 25 per orb isn't enough to cast Shroud.  And this is a poor copy of Iron Skin at best, and cannot be recast during the use of Guard Mode. 

 

 

Lmao.  Rhino has access to literally all of the healing they took from Mechs and more, you're invalidating your own points.

 

I definitely agree that Necramechs need better options for replenishing energy too.  I should have included the topic of energy replenishment in my title for this thread.

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On 2020-12-18 at 8:46 PM, GkarB5 said:

Please reply with info describing how to heal (recover/regenerate) health on the 2 Necramechs we currently have: Voidrig & Bone Widow.

It would be very much appreciated if DE could add an in-game tooltip (to each Necramech) detailing methods for health regen.

Some new info: 

It looks like there are some very limited healing options for Necramechs, but we need much better (and more varied) options:

1) Mod: Necramech Repair - at max rank, it restores 10% of health per second over 3 seconds when health drops below 20%. It has a 15 second cooldown.

2) THIS IS ONLY FOR THE BONEWIDOW NECRAMECH:  It's 1st ability: Meathook:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Meathook

"While hooked, the enemy target receives Impact damage per second, with the damage amount based on 5% / 10% / ?% / ?% of its maximum health points; 25% / 30% / ?% / ?% of each damage instance is also converted into Health points to continuously repair Bonewidow every second.
Energy cost is affected by Ability Efficiency.
Damage per second and lifesteal conversion are affected by Ability Strength."

 

So... is this the only 2 way for mech to heal now?? 

btw is life orb actually work on mech??

I never seem one hen I am riding on a mech...

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