Why Not Give Each Side Their Weapons.

[Loswaith]

Because it offers no incentives, no care about who wins the war?

 

With everybody getting the winner's weapon, it makes people actually care about who wins the war. If everybody got their own side's weapon at the end of the War, then it is "Meh I'll just do whatever gives me the best battle pay and on the last day I'll spam missions to get the majority whose weapons I want" rather than them caring about who wins.

Though the current way offers no real incentive to choose a side either (unless your clan can/wants to compete) and instead hedge your bets (and taking the best pay on offer) doing equal missions for both sides, up untill the last day and go with the winning faction for a last few missions and get the bonus slot and reactor (unless the weapons are part of the power creep they will be mastery fodder anyway).  At the end of the day your not choosing a side just being a mercenary.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Loswaith

[Archfiendrai]

Actually, it says that anyone who completes 25 missions of any kind gets the melee weapon of the winning side.  If you've done 25 corpus missions and the grineer win, you get Machete Wraith.

Thats what I was thinking it was. Now I'm confused.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

I want, I want, I want. Always I want.

Be happy that you actually get anything at all for losing.

And if you want the Corpus gun that bad, then go play for Corpus.

Whats ur problem, the gren already have more than half of the system controlled and pro-cropus players are playing their butts off just to support their faction, despite the outnumbering gren supporters. People have been trying so hard to make the coprus win even if they absolutely knew that in the end they would not end up winning or getting their DETRON hand cannon. So if the grenier win, we not only get shuned for losing, we get slapped in the face with the T3 weapon that we absolutely don't want. I dunno about u guys but if i get the Brakk BP im selling it right away, because that not what i played for...

[Solution9]

Whats ur problem, the gren already have more than half of the system controlled and pro-cropus players are playing their butts off just to support their faction, despite the outnumbering gren supporters. People have been trying so hard to make the coprus win even if they absolutely knew that in the end they would not end up winning or getting their DETRON hand cannon. So if the grenier win, we not only get shuned for losing, we get slapped in the face with the T3 weapon that we absolutely don't want. I dunno about u guys but if i get the Brakk BP im selling it right away, because that not what i played for...

 

First off. I have no problem, thank you.

This line in particular caught my eye: "So if the grenier win, we not only get shuned for losing, we get slapped in the face with the T3 weapon that we absolutely don't want".

 

So you don't want the weapon we might get? Well, that's just too bad.

In war the losing side gets nothing. Just be glad that you actually get something and learn to accept defeat.

Corpus, all the way.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Solution9

[Paxolotl]

So you don't want the weapon we might get? Well, that's just too bad.

In war the losing side gets nothing. Just be glad that you actually get something and learn to accept defeat.

 

Yes comparing this event with RL war will totally help.

 

We apply alot of effort in supporting the corpus faction - at least as many as the winning side is.

 

So why should we get double-punished ? ("cause u loose" isnt an argument)

Ive done as many missions as the winning side has - and want a reward for this.

 

Winners get platinum-only weapon slot + catalyst + Pre-build weapon.

I´d consider this as a winning prize, wouldnt you?

[Solution9]

Yes comparing this event with RL war will totally help.

 

We apply alot of effort in supporting the corpus faction - at least as many as the winning side is.

 

So why should we get double-punished ? ("cause u loose" isnt an argument)

Ive done as many missions as the winning side has - and want a reward for this.

 

Winners get platinum-only weapon slot + catalyst + Pre-build weapon.

I´d consider this as a winning prize, wouldnt you?

 

We do NOT get "double-punished". We get the blueprint for an event weapon. Not the exact one we hoped for but at least we get something. (By the way. That's a pretty generous "losing prize").

And "cause u loose" is a pretty damn good argument for not getting anything.

If you don't want to compare it to real war, then compare it to a football event.

 

The winner gets: 2mil dollars and the trophy

The loser gets: 500.000 dollars

Which is exactly what will happen in this competition (sorry, event). The winning side gets the most, the losing side gets the less. That is how competitions work.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Solution9

[Paxolotl]

Its not about loosing/winning prize its about logic.

 

To put it on your example:

 

Football Teams:

Winner: 2 mil dollars.

Loser: 500.000 autographs from the winning team.

 

Slap to the face thats how we (Corpus supporters) feel.

 

Like i wrote above - we already getting HARD punished by not getting the platinum-only weapon slot + catalyst + pre-build weapon.

IMO DE screwed this event with the early Grineer rewards beeing unbalanced - most players/clans made their faction choice cause

of this -> snowball effect -> winning team joiners -> bigger snowball -> you get the point.

 

You think I joined Corpus for getting a Grineer weapon?

 

E: I will sell Brakk Pistol blueprint. Thats not what i "worked" for.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Sunfox069

[ScribWere]

E: I will sell Brakk Pistol blueprint. Thats not what i "worked" for.

Ditto this. Worse? Honestly Corpus players have to work HARDER to support Corpus. Grineer is a free ride. Some of my friends have played half the time I have, and have twice the victories for Grineer simply due to how much EASIER their missions are.

[Solution9]

Its not about loosing/winning prize its about logic.

 

To put it on your example:

 

Football Teams:

Winner: 2 mil dollars.

Loser: 500.000 autographs from the winning team.

 

Slap to the face thats how we (Corpus supporters) feel.

 

Like i wrote above - we already getting HARD punished by not getting the platinum-only weapon slot + catalyst + pre-build weapon.

IMO DE screwed this event with the early Grineer rewards beeing unbalanced - most players/clans made their faction choice cause

of this -> snowball effect -> winning team joiners -> bigger snowball -> you get the point.

 

You think I joined Corpus for getting a Grineer weapon?

 

E: I will sell Brakk Pistol blueprint. Thats not what i "worked" for.

 

I actually like your twist on the example better.

Though. I have played only Corpus missions and I don't feel a slap in the face. I have accepted the terms the event was based on. I read them and understood them.

I am sure you did as well.

You knew there was a risk involved with choosing a side. It was the same for those who chose to side with the Grineer.

When you realized that Corpus might lose you came here because suddenly it was unfair. Where were these posts when the outcome was less clear?

There weren't any. Would you have come here to complain if it was Corpus who was winning? Nope. The Grineer supporters would have.

Everyone who was interested in this event knew the rules and the risk/reward involved.

 

And we are not getting punished hard. The winning team is getting a better reward. Although this we could argue about back and forward til the end of time. So let's skip that part.

Note:

I would suggest you don't sell the blueprint out of sheer spite. It is still an event only reward which new players never can get. I'll be sure to keep mine, at least in blueprint form.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Solution9

[Paxolotl]

When you realized that Corpus might lose you came here because suddenly it was unfair. Where were these posts when the outcome was less clear?

There weren't any. Would you have come here to complain if it was Corpus who was winning? Nope. The Grineer supporters would have.

 

Youre right - I wouldnt have come here to complain because I had joined Corpus and would get Corpus guns.

BUT that doesnt mean i wouldnt agree with the grineer complaining not getting their grineer weapons.

 

You choose faction - you get faction gun. Simple as that.

 

I dont see any negative sides if they would switch it. If you have some, please share.

 

I only noticed most Corpus supporters want Corpus guns so their choice actually would make a difference.

Illusion of choice - again.

[ScribWere]

I actually like your twist on the example better.

Though. I have played only Corpus missions and I don't feel a slap in the face. I have accepted the terms the event was based on. I read them and understood them.

I am sure you did as well.

You knew there was a risk involved with choosing a side. It was the same for those who chose to side with the Grineer.

When you realized that Corpus might lose you came here because suddenly it was unfair. Where were these posts when the outcome was less clear?

There weren't any. Would you have come here to complain if it was Corpus who was winning? Nope. The Grineer supporters would have.

Everyone who was interested in this event knew the rules and the risk/reward involved.

 

And we are not getting punished hard. The winning team is getting a better reward. Although this we could argue about back and forward til the end of time. So let's skip that part.

Note:

I would suggest you don't sell the blueprint out of sheer spite. It is still an event only reward which new players never can get. I'll be sure to keep mine, at least in blueprint form.

These posts have been going on since the first battle. o.O

[Solution9]

Youre right - I wouldnt have come here to complain because I had joined Corpus and would get Corpus guns.

BUT that doesnt mean i wouldnt agree with the grineer complaining not getting their grineer weapons.

 

You choose faction - you get faction gun. Simple as that.

 

I dont see any negative sides if they would switch it. If you have some, please share.

 

I only noticed most Corpus supporters want Corpus guns so their choice actually would make a difference.

Illusion of choice - again.

I think that is exactly the point. There has to be some severe penalties for the losing side. Else there is no point in executing an event like this.

Like many other Corpus supporters you saw the T3 reward and made your choice to fight for that.

Already there your choice did make a difference for you. All you could do was fight for the cause you had chose (read: reward), and hope that side would win.

I'll ask this question again and this time not rhetorically:

Why did you not complain about the rewards at the very point you had read and understood the rules, instead of waiting for the almost-surely outcome of the war to appear?

 

Edit:

To ScribWere - "These posts have been going on since the first battle o.O"

 

While it is true that people have been complaining about the Battle Pay rewards since the first battle (Catalyst vs Credits).

It is only now that Corpus supporters are complaining that they won't get their version of the gun because it looks like they are going to lose.

You are not the only one watching this forum ;)

Edited October 27, 2013 by Solution9

[Ceryncross]

Agreed. There have been many topics about this already, but DE just insists on "Oh, don't worry, we'll bring the other weapons back at a later date!".

I cannot think of a single situation in which that method would lead to more satisfying a result than simply giving players the weapons that they actually wanted.

This is starting to sound very familiar...

Next thing you know, DE will start enforcing Obamacare Warcare on us.

[Taranis49]

It makes perfect sense that the loosing side gets a similar reward if any at all.

In what war did the loosing side get what they wanted?

 

Just off the top of my head? The Crusades - (The Holy Sepulchre remained in Christian hands after Saladin took Jerusalem in the Siege of 1187), the War of 1812 (despite the fact the Capital was burned down and the American Navy couldn't so much as leave port for fear of being captured and/or sunk in its entirety, the British actually ended impressment before the war really started even though we failed to achieve pretty much any of our pre-war objectives), WWII (the Japanese Emperor wasn't required to face trial).

 

Plus, there's the issue that the losing side is typically required to pay debts.

 

Seriously, trying to bring real-life rationale into a game rarely works well, if only due to the fact that real-life is a pretty big messy ball o' wax. :-P

[Paxolotl]

I'll ask this question again and this time not rhetorically:

Why did you not complain about the rewards at the very point you had read and understood the rules, instead of waiting for the almost-surely outcome of the war to appear?

 

Pretty off topic now - tryin to make this short:

 

Why didnt i complain earlier?

 

1. Look at my posts-count - im at ~25 posts in this forum beeing a warframe forum- newbie. I dont want to spam my s*** in this forum every time I notice something about warframe I dont like. -> Meaning this topic concerns me way more than others.

2. To be honest - I didnt notice thoose "IF...WIN" conditions immedeately - there were many rumors in chat, confusing alot of ppl.

3. English isnt my monther-language (if you havent noticed :D )

 

I feel punished, cheated (illusion of choice), and back-stabbed by supporting loosing faction (to keep the war running - and yes for dat DETRON).

And im not the only one as you can see if you scout throu the forums.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Sunfox069

[Solution9]

 

Just off the top of my head? The Crusades - (The Holy Sepulchre remained in Christian hands after Saladin took Jerusalem in the Siege of 1187), the War of 1812 (despite the fact the Capital was burned down and the American Navy couldn't so much as leave port for fear of being captured and/or sunk in its entirety, the British actually ended impressment before the war really started even though we failed to achieve pretty much any of our pre-war objectives), WWII (the Japanese Emperor wasn't required to face trial).

 

Plus, there's the issue that the losing side is typically required to pay debts.

 

Seriously, trying to bring real-life rationale into a game rarely works well, if only due to the fact that real-life is a pretty big messy ball o' wax. :-P

 

Nerd alert ;)

Anyway. So the losing side got what they wanted? Nah it more seems like they got a little something out of it. Like in this event.

Perhaps it does not work well, but you still need to accept the terms of the event. If they seem too harsh you could have ignored the event completely.

Also, crowd-pleasing just makes the event seem hollow. Why have an event if the outcome doesn't really matter anyway?

I'm still on the "win all or get nothing" team. Yes, I might not get anything (as it seem right now) but I had the chance to get everything. And I'm fine with that, and I spent my time on Corpus missions. In vain apparently. But that's how competitions are.

[Solution9]

Pretty off topic now - tryin to make this short:

 

Why didnt i complain earlier?

 

1. Look at my posts-count - im at ~25 posts in this forum beeing a warframe forum- newbie. I dont want to spam my s*** in this forum every time I notice something about warframe I dont like. -> Meaning this topic concerns me way more than others.

2. To be honest - I didnt notice thoose "IF...WIN" conditions immedeately - there were many rumors in chat, confusing alot of ppl.

3. English isnt my monther-language (if you havent noticed :D )

 

I feel punished, cheated (illusion of choice), and back-stabbed by supporting loosing faction (to keep the war running - and yes for dat DETRON).

And im not the only one as you can see if you scout throu the forums.

No worries. My native language isn't English either.

How you feel backstabbed by choosing the losing faction is beyond me. Did you think that you choice didn't matter?

 

Edit:

Sorry about the double post. I get shot at a lot in this thread and only have so much time to try and fend off the incoming shells :P

Edited October 27, 2013 by Solution9

[Paxolotl]

Why have an event if the outcome doesn't really matter anyway?

 

Why have an event where you choose between factions, but all players get the same rewards anway ?

[ScribWere]

Edit:

To ScribWere - "These posts have been going on since the first battle o.O"

 

While it is true that people have been complaining about the Battle Pay rewards since the first battle (Catalyst vs Credits).

It is only now that Corpus supporters are complaining that they won't get their version of the gun because it looks like they are going to lose.

You are not the only one watching this forum ;)

I dunno. I logged onto the forums when the battles after the very first went up (I missed the first) because I was frustrated that the regional chat was filled with people purposefully lying to players asking how rewards worked. "If you do any missions for Corpus u lose access to any win rewards and grineer are going to win by huge margin now" to see if anyone was complaining. Something like 2-3 AM PST.

 

And in the "This event is rigged" Posts, very quickly in the threads people were *@##$ing about the end game rewards not making sense the moment people figured out what they were. (most people were under a variety of mistaken impressions of how the rewards were to work)

 

While they weren't concise threads stating, "LET'S DO THIS AND MAKE IT RIGHT DE!" there were people *@##$ing about rewards, I even saw Grineer doing it that early. They were just in other threads, and often they lacked direction of 'how to make it right'. people Hadn't figured it out yet.

 

They have now. Pretty much, this event's been predetermined since the first battle, and that's what's not sitting right with people. A CLOSE battle would have made people feel better, a vaguely fair one, this has been a one-sided stomp fest with one side not only having a massive early boost that, due to the way the event was set up, forces guilds to take a single side--a side determined the moment the first few battles pushed Corpus out of competing.

 

Not to mention the faction differences. (Hell, I was able to solo grineer missions on a level 16 frame and with a brand new unmodded Dera, barely had to fire a shot, Corpus missions were often slow, painful slug fests on my best frames and with my best weapons (I don't have any EXTREMELY high end gear, my best weapon is a potatoed max rank Boltor and Afuris, but still) The faction glitches supporting Grineer (running into unbeatable maps routinely with invulnerable Rollers screwing many Corpus runs)

[Solution9]

Why have an event where you choose between factions, but all players get the same rewards anway ?

 

Weapon slot + Hand Cannon + Catalyst

Is not the same reward as

Hand Cannon

Let's say the Grineer wins this war. Why should they reward you at all for fighting against them?

[ScribWere]

Weapon slot + Hand Cannon + Catalyst

Is not the same reward as

Hand Cannon

Let's say the Grineer wins this war. Why should they reward you at all for fighting against them?

He means its an illusion of choice. There is no reason to play Corpus after it was clear that they could not win. I.E. An hour into the event. The illusion that he had a CHOICE for an item was gone. He could choose between getting a gun+slot+potato, or a BP.

 

There was no "fighting for your cause" or even 'competing'. It was a week long event won in an hour. That's the problem.

[Paxolotl]

Weapon slot + Hand Cannon + Catalyst

Is not the same reward as

Hand Cannon

Let's say the Grineer wins this war. Why should they reward you at all for fighting against them?

 

Im glad its DE whos rewarding me - not Ruk :D 

 

Because I spend same time and effort for this event as any other player regardless of which faction they choosed.

 

To twist it:

Why shouldnt I get the weapon slot + cata + pre build reward ? I did my part in this war like any other.

(im fine with not getting a weapon slot + cata + pre build)

Edited October 27, 2013 by Sunfox069

[Phatose]

The most practical reason to run it this way is to ensure that participation stays relevant to all players through the entire course of the event.  Many of the previous events have had players simply do the absolutely minimum required for the top reward, then leave it.

 

The potato and slot, while certainly a major motivator for Free players, is going to be far less so for anybody who buys platinum.  That's a fairly important segment of the playerbase, especially to DE.  Keeping the event relevant for them is thus pretty important - so having the reward decided by the net output of the entire community keeps everyone involved.

 

The main flaw with this event is that a single defeat heavily demoralized one side.  Whether or not that single defeat actually doomed them or not isn't much relevant - the perception of such is enough to cause the defeat.

 

Hopefully, DE will learn and build in negative feedback in future events of this matter - make things easier for the side that's currently losing, and harder for the one that's currently winning.  And make it clear that it's intentional.  That would counter an awful lot of problem we saw here, where a single defeat made one side essentially give up.

[Solution9]

He means its an illusion of choice. There is no reason to play Corpus after it was clear that they could not win. I.E. An hour into the event. The illusion that he had a CHOICE for an item was gone. He could choose between getting a gun+slot+potato, or a BP.

 

There was no "fighting for your cause" or even 'competing'. It was a week long event won in an hour. That's the problem.

I agree. The setup was not good at all. The first battle indeed spelled almost certain doom on Corpus.

The idea was fine. The execution was not.

But that is not really the issue. If the event had been smoother the loser would still have gotten the "wrong" weapon and threads like this would have popped up anyway.

And that is where we disagree. I am a firm believer that the losers are not rewarded, but punished (flawed event or not).

This discussion is really just ramblings (my self included).

We can hope the DEs learn from their mistakes. Here I mean the event and of course not the reward system ;)

[Bleghy]

Am I the only person here who wants the Provandal?

 

I want to stun my friends in style!