Why Not Give Each Side Their Weapons.

[Solution9]

Im glad its DE whos rewarding me - not Ruk :D 

 

Because I spend same time and effort for this event as any other player regardless of which faction they choosed.

 

To twist it:

Why shouldnt I get the weapon slot + cata + pre build reward ? I did my part in this war like any other.

(im fine with not getting a weapon slot + cata + pre build)

Ruk would shoot us dead in the glimpse of a second :)

And you should not be rewarded for your time spent. You should be rewarded for winning. It's as simple as that.

[HeliusFlame]

All planed.. 

 

DE says grineer are the good guys..

 

DE gives better rewards in all the missions for the first day to grineer.

 

Most Clans choose grineer, and won't change the factions, not to loose points in the clan competition. 

 

In the middle of day 2, Corpus gets better rewards, so they wont be able to complain the war results were fixed. 

 

End of story.

[Paxolotl]

Am I the only person here who wants the Provandal?

 

I want to stun my friends in style!

 

Yes !

 

I´d sell a weapon slot, the Brakk, machete and the Prova + reactor, catalyst and 10x Forma for dat DETRON.

 

But - the thing that i want the most is of course the only thing i cant get      >.<

Edited October 27, 2013 by Sunfox069

[Ksdsdf]

The problem is having player switch sides easily. If they had locked the faction from the start, then people who has been supporting corpus will try even harder to win the next fight, but because of the option switching side, it's screw everything up: most corpus player now switched to grineer (for better reward), which then push the outcome even further to grineer side.

[Solution9]

The problem is having player switch sides easily. If they had locked the faction from the start, then people who has been supporting corpus will try even harder to win the next fight, but because of the option switching side, it's screw everything up: most corpus player now switched to grineer (for better reward), which then push the outcome even further to grineer side.

 

This is very true at least in my optic.

The first reward (catalyst vs credits) and the lack of biding choices tipped the scale very early on.

If the first reward had been even, fx. Credits vs Credits and we were bound to the first faction pick. I think the war would have been a lot more dynamic and equal.

This will be the last post by me. I live in Europe and it's getting pretty late.

Fun discussing with you all!

Night.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Solution9

[Taranis49]

Nerd alert ;)

Anyway. So the losing side got what they wanted? Nah it more seems like they got a little something out of it. Like in this event.

Perhaps it does not work well, but you still need to accept the terms of the event. If they seem too harsh you could have ignored the event completely.

Also, crowd-pleasing just makes the event seem hollow. Why have an event if the outcome doesn't really matter anyway?

I'm still on the "win all or get nothing" team. Yes, I might not get anything (as it seem right now) but I had the chance to get everything. And I'm fine with that, and I spent my time on Corpus missions. In vain apparently. But that's how competitions are.

 

Well, you did ask... ;-)

 

Uh, in every case I listed? Those were all things the losers wanted - in the case of the War of 1812 and impressment for example? It was actually the entire stated reason for our botched invasion of Canada and starting the War. Plus, there's the fact that Tenno aren't actually a losing side, in cases like this, you could basically argue they're mercenaries (hence where the whole "paying debts" thing tends to come in). :-P

 

Also, from the wording of your post, you apparently assume I'm a Corpie supporter - I'm not. And beyond that, the terms of the event are kinda contradictory, the terms are "when both sides have exhausted themselves in this conflict" - that implies neither side'll be much of a victor when the fighting's done. ;-)

 

Regardless, competitions are also intended to be fair, if nothing else - nothing in the terms implies differently. DE's admitted right off the bat with the first reward at Gradivus that their intention was to tip the scales in Grineer favor - in a valid competition? Level the field and let the chips fall where they may.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Taranis49

[ScorpDK]

seeing how this thread develops and the amount of attacks on Corpus players for trying to get something worthwhile out of this... I really start to hope that the Grineer gun turns out be vastly inferior to the standard Lato -_-;

[Boomstick720]

Alright I'm getting pretty sick of these threads, but seeing as though willing them to stop won't help, lets see if action will.

 

Lets look at it this way.  Why would DE, who has clearly planned out this event very throughly, reward people the way they do now?

 

Well, lets look at it this way.  Imagine they rewarded people as is commonly suggested, namely, the grineer win and get the slot with potato and weapon, and the corpus supporters, who lose, get their bp.

 

Now, it is almost unquestionable that one of these two weapons will be functionally better than the other in some situations.  Best case scenario has them as side-grades to each other, and has them do better things against better factions.  Now creating 1 weapon to be directly equivalent in "tier" to another is hard enough, but doing a 2vs2 scenario of equal weapons is even harder.  What do you think will happen if suddenly everyone determines that the machete wraith is far worse than the provandal?  Do you think people will just say "oh well, guess that happens".  Knowing people on this forum, there will thread after thread of unending S#&$ storms about how DE cheated the winners of the event and will throw in a few choice phrases as well.  Conversely, if the wraithchete turns out to be far superior to the provandal, people will be whining about how DE has stacked the event even more to punish corpus supporters.  Keep in mind, this is for only TWO of the weapons, not even the ones that everyone is working for.  

 

What happens with the current situation?  The winners get their prize, and the losers get their participation award (far better than nothing).  And spoilers everyone- you don't always get a gold star and reward for "doing your best", so be grateful you have anything.  The long term effects of this are as follows.  People complain about how they felt cheated into not getting the weapon they want, and then forget about it when its (inevitably) offered again.  Sounds much better than the first scenario right?

 

You want a reward you want?  Work for it.

 

You didn't get it, even though you tried your best?  Suck it up and try next time.

 

Believe it or not, every excuse in the book is not going to change the outcome of the event.  If you really want to change it, stop whining about it in the forums, get in the game, and change it.  Every contestable node has gone to the grineer more often than not.  Why?  Because many of the grineer people simply want it more.  The big clan supporters of the grineer, warbros in particular, as of the time of writing this have well over 30,000 points.  The corpus supporters have well over 20,000.  And don't say "oh well they just saw the first reward and picked the side for their reward".  Bullsh*t.  Do you know how big these clans are?  Do you know how impossibly hard it is to, within the first few hours of the event, tell every single person in the clan "hey we are going grineer now", especially if they decided corpus before?  

 

You can blame the grineer clans for being tryhards, or unfair to the rest of the group, but that won't change the outcome of the event.  I, and I'm sure many of them, don't care what you think, because they are already finishing the next invasion.  So if it really means that much to you, get in there and change the outcome.  And if you can't?  Big deal, its a game, and the rewards will be back later.  Hell, you might actuallly get a better version if you wait instead of a garbage version now.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Boomstick720

[Volthorne]

And you should not be rewarded for your time spent. You should be rewarded for winning. It's as simple as that.

I'm sorry, but that line of thought is just WRONG.

 

I'm going to use an example based loosely around the industry I work in - video games.

 

Say you've got a team of graphic designers and you say to them "I want a character concept for our new game. You all have 100 hours (lol, in what world?) to draw and complete a concept." Then, 50 work-hours later you gather them all up in another meeting and say "Oh, by the way, only the person whose concept gets chosen for the final design gets paid for the time you spent working. The rest of you are S#&amp;&#036; out of luck."

 

I would be expecting everyone on that team to be handing in resignations within the next two hours. Not rewarding people for spending their time playing your content is unacceptable. Especially in F2P games where the players who are willing to spend money are literally your only source of income.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

-snip because of not being related to what I'm saying-

And you should not be rewarded for your time spent. You should be rewarded for winning. It's as simple as that.

 

I hate to say it, but that line of speech/thought/sentence/whatever is just... WRONG, WRONG and... WRONG, maybe with a side of WRONG

 

I'll take casual sports as an example (such as bowling): if your team doesn't come first, you still get a reward for effort for your team, not a cheap replica of the winning teams reward JUST to rub it in your face (A.K.A what's happening in this event), so why is it suddenly unacceptable (imagine Lemon Grab saying that, and it'll be a lot funnier) for that to be in a video game?

[Mak_Gohae]

If everyone gets what they want there would be no point in the event at all.

People would do their one hundred missions then go on to their normal scheduled farming if stuff wasnt going their way after a bit

Getting the weapon already built is nice at all but i dont think it would be enough to get any number of significant people playing for a win.

[OmegaDas]

agreed , i dont care for the slot and potato in it, i just want it to be availabe to me by some means. besides Brakk looks so bad compared to the Detron

[Boomstick720]

I hate to say it, but that line of speech/thought/sentence/whatever is just... WRONG, WRONG and... WRONG, maybe with a side of WRONG

 

I'll take casual sports as an example (such as bowling): if your team doesn't come first, you still get a reward for effort for your team, not a cheap replica of the winning teams reward JUST to rub it in your face (A.K.A what's happening in this event), so why is it suddenly unacceptable (imagine Lemon Grab saying that, and it'll be a lot funnier) for that to be in a video game?

Why is it acceptable in these sports?

 

That isn't how it works in the real world, and its stupid to think otherwise.  "But its just a game!" someone cries.  Then it shouldn't matter and you should just get over it.  If its only a game, then the results shouldn't matter.  Only if you enjoy yourself.  Is winning better than losing?  Yes of course it is, but you shouldn't get butt frustrated because the game isn't rewarding you for effort.  Why do people like dark souls, or other hard games?  It sure as hell isn't easy, and its at points down right masochistic.  But it rewards you for doing well.  Hell, it even gives you bonuses for coming in and beating other people while they are playing (otherwise known as trolling the single player).  

 

If its only a game, then "winning" or "losing" shouldn't matter.  If you win, you get a trophy.  If you lose, you get a smaller trophy.  This is far better than I would do it, so be grateful for that.

 

 

I'm sorry, but that line of thought is just WRONG.

 

I'm going to use an example based loosely around the industry I work in - video games.

 

Say you've got a team of graphic designers and you say to them "I want a character concept for our new game. You all have 100 hours (lol, in what world?) to draw and complete a concept." Then, 50 work-hours later you gather them all up in another meeting and say "Oh, by the way, only the person whose concept gets chosen for the final design gets paid for the time you spent working. The rest of you are S#&$ out of luck."

 

I would be expecting everyone on that team to be handing in resignations within the next two hours. Not rewarding people for spending their time playing your content is unacceptable. Especially in F2P games where the players who are willing to spend money are literally your only source of income.

 

I don't mean to sound like a &#036;&amp;*^, but do you understand the meaning of the term "loose"?  Generally speaking, it means that it is directly related to the topic at hand, but in a different way.  A "loose" analogy of the situation would be if you were given 100 hours to get the new concept, and the winner gets paid for his work plus any related royalties, and the loser gets paid for his work.  To think that they owe you for playing their game is kind of disturbing to be honest.  If you don't want to play, then don't.  They don't owe you money, you pay for their service.  If you aren't satisfied, then say so, but don't act like you are the one holding all the cards.  No one is forcing you to play, so you might be more satisfied going somewhere else.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

Why is it acceptable in these sports?

 

That isn't how it works in the real world, and its stupid to think otherwise.  "But its just a game!" someone cries.  Then it shouldn't matter and you should just get over it.  If its only a game, then the results shouldn't matter.  Only if you enjoy yourself.  Is winning better than losing?  Yes of course it is, but you shouldn't get butt frustrated because the game isn't rewarding you for effort.  Why do people like dark souls, or other hard games?  It sure as hell isn't easy, and its at points down right masochistic.  But it rewards you for doing well.  Hell, it even gives you bonuses for coming in and beating other people while they are playing (otherwise known as trolling the single player).  

 

If its only a game, then "winning" or "losing" shouldn't matter.  If you win, you get a trophy.  If you lose, you get a smaller trophy.  This is far better than I would do it, so be grateful for that.

 

I'm not crying "it's just a game!" Nor is anyone else here as far as I've seen, we should be able to choose our reward instead of getting force-fed a reward we may not even want, that's the point we're trying to get across, and I don't understand why you're so against it, it's not like it's the end of Warframe if we get to choose our reward, everyone wants to be happy, so by letting us choose our reward, everyone's happy! Unless we're not aloud to be happy, if that's the case I don't want to live on this world anymore

 

that's almost exactly what we're asking for! We're not asking for a gun that has a slot and a potato installed even if we lose! We're asking for at least the BP of the gun we want

Edited October 27, 2013 by Ninjaboy00

[Oizen]

Slots and potatoes aren't that hard to comeby.

 

 

I just want my Prova Vandal

[Boomstick720]

I'm not crying "it's just a game!" Nor is anyone else here as far as I've seen, we should be able to choose our reward instead of getting force-fed a reward we may not even want, that's the point we're trying to get across, and I don't understand why you're so against it, it's not like it's the end of Warframe if we get to choose our reward, everyone wants to be happy, so by letting us choose our reward, everyone's happy! Unless we're not aloud to be happy, if that's the case I don't want to live on this world anymore

 

that's almost exactly what we're asking for! We're not asking for a gun that has a slot and a potato installed even if we lose! We're asking for at least the BP of the gun we want

Perhaps I am missing something here, but isn't it winners who get to decide what happens?

 

I mean, what would be the point of the contest if winning had no meaning?

 

The only possible real reward here is the extra slot, as you can basically just potato the new gun you get based on all the taters we have gotten on this event, and in my opinion, an extra slot isn't worth 100 matches, or roughly the equivalent of 6 platinum (that is roughly 40 cents).  But the other unspoken reward is choice.  You get to choose what is released right now, and that, in my opinion, is a hell of a reward worth working towards.

[Oizen]

The winners still do decide what happens.

 

This is just about the event rewards.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

Perhaps I am missing something here, but isn't it winners who get to decide what happens?

 

I mean, what would be the point of the contest if winning had no meaning?

 

The only possible real reward here is the extra slot, as you can basically just potato the new gun you get based on all the taters we have gotten on this event, and in my opinion, an extra slot isn't worth 100 matches, or roughly the equivalent of 6 platinum (that is roughly 40 cents).  But the other unspoken reward is choice.  You get to choose what is released right now, and that, in my opinion, is a hell of a reward worth working towards.

the 'winners' are deciding that Grineer take over Mars, the Zanuka project never happens and the colonies of Mars gets enslaved by Grineer, or if Corpus somehow manage to pull out a victory, the Grineer don't get control of Mars or its colonies yet the Zanuka project still proceeds as normal

 

the winners still get a weapon slot and a potato in an already built gun, the 'losers' only get the BP of the gun they want meaning they'll have to farm mats for it and wait X amount of hours for it to build, that's not a big enough meaning for you? Then you're asking too much from a game

 

I've only gotten one catalyst this event and used it, and most people have either spent their plat on other stuff other than slots (for whatever reasons) or didn't know how important they are and aren't willing to pay money for a digital currency

[Draxxon]

I agree with Oizen. I really want the Detron, but it looks like I'm gonna have to go Grineer or sacrifice getting a slot with a potatoed gun.

[lonelydrone]

The badge everyone gets for doing 5 missions reguardless of faction.   The Teir 2 and 3 rewards are only awarded to the winning side.    So if the Grineer win, the supporters get the Melee and the pistol, with the Corpus supporters getting the Grineer Pistol BP as a thanking for Playing..   If the Corpus win, then they get their melee and pistol and Grineer supporters get the corpus pistol BP.    

 

So Basically if the side you support doesn't win, all you get is a Blue Print to the Other Factions Pistol, and a Badge.

 

sorry, but you got it wrong.

 

No matter which side you supported, if you have 25+ points for any side, you get the winning side super charged weapon.

[Ixalion]

Perhaps I am missing something here, but isn't it winners who get to decide what happens?

 

I mean, what would be the point of the contest if winning had no meaning?

 

The only possible real reward here is the extra slot, as you can basically just potato the new gun you get based on all the taters we have gotten on this event, and in my opinion, an extra slot isn't worth 100 matches, or roughly the equivalent of 6 platinum (that is roughly 40 cents).  But the other unspoken reward is choice.  You get to choose what is released right now, and that, in my opinion, is a hell of a reward worth working towards.

 

The fact that you make a difference in the game's storyline, and thus potetially alter upcoming game events, seems to be a hefty reward on its own, no?

 

Also, I understand your point on games being difficult and whatnot, but the way DE built this event doesn't seem to really reward skill. In a game like Dark Souls (I've personally only played Demons Souls, so I'm not sure if the systems are any different), if you're outnumbered by Invaders, it's still very possible to win and you'll be rewarded generously for your efforts. In this event, it doesn't matter if you're an excellent player who can cut through hoards in a second; if you're playing against a popular side, your efforts are going to be invalidated by a hundred or so other players who may or may not even be better than you, and there's realistically nothing you can do about it.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Ixalion

[CaptainohCaptain]

That's why I created this https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122961-a-bit-of-spoilers-to-the-event/#entry1451868 thread.

1st one is true. Second is true, too — 3 vs 5 orokin cells, frequent chassis vs rare systems and so on.

3rd comes true? Yeah, I bet we'll have surprise with actual point count (like grineer points and corpus points interfering in clan's manner, requiring you to have 150 points to get reward if you've got 50 points of opposite faction).

Now excuse me while I'll show more loyality to the Tenno and Grineer, even if mere credits are the reward.

[Boomstick720]

the 'winners' are deciding that Grineer take over Mars, the Zanuka project never happens and the colonies of Mars gets enslaved by Grineer, or if Corpus somehow manage to pull out a victory, the Grineer don't get control of Mars or its colonies yet the Zanuka project still proceeds as normal

 

the winners still get a weapon slot and a potato in an already built gun, the 'losers' only get the BP of the gun they want meaning they'll have to farm mats for it and wait X amount of hours for it to build, that's not a big enough meaning for you? Then you're asking too much from a game

 

I've only gotten one catalyst this event and used it, and most people have either spent their plat on other stuff other than slots (for whatever reasons) or didn't know how important they are and aren't willing to pay money for a digital currency

Both lore related titles are functionally meaningless until further confirmation.  The only real development that will come from the gameplay, possibly, from the event is that mars will now be a grineer controlled planet.  However, I think this is unlikely, because that means that they will need a new boss there.  Either way, everything stays functionally the same.  So yes, there is an added benefit to winning from a lore standpoint, but no real functional benefit, other than the gun and sword itself.  Oh and the badge.  Unless the outcome of this event drastically, or even just significantly, changes the course of the lore, then it is meaningless.  Don't misunderstand me, I like lore as much as the next guy, but right now it simply isn't strong enough to have any impact on my playstyle or in game decisions.  The game remains "go from A to B and kill everything between".  You can give Vor this huge back story, but if he stayed the same boss he was before U9, I wouldn't have cared that much.

 

In short, we can't place lore as a definite benefit unless it has permanent consequences.  

 

And DE would really have to make the cost to build the gun obscene to make it a clear inconvenience, especially since this event keeps rewarding rare materials left and right.

 

I posted a more in depth "method to my madness" earlier, so I'll just repost it here.

 

 

Alright I'm getting pretty sick of these threads, but seeing as though willing them to stop won't help, lets see if action will.

 

Lets look at it this way.  Why would DE, who has clearly planned out this event very throughly, reward people the way they do now?

 

Well, lets look at it this way.  Imagine they rewarded people as is commonly suggested, namely, the grineer win and get the slot with potato and weapon, and the corpus supporters, who lose, get their bp.

 

Now, it is almost unquestionable that one of these two weapons will be functionally better than the other in some situations.  Best case scenario has them as side-grades to each other, and has them do better things against better factions.  Now creating 1 weapon to be directly equivalent in "tier" to another is hard enough, but doing a 2vs2 scenario of equal weapons is even harder.  What do you think will happen if suddenly everyone determines that the machete wraith is far worse than the provandal?  Do you think people will just say "oh well, guess that happens".  Knowing people on this forum, there will thread after thread of unending S#&$ storms about how DE cheated the winners of the event and will throw in a few choice phrases as well.  Conversely, if the wraithchete turns out to be far superior to the provandal, people will be whining about how DE has stacked the event even more to punish corpus supporters.  Keep in mind, this is for only TWO of the weapons, not even the ones that everyone is working for.  

 

What happens with the current situation?  The winners get their prize, and the losers get their participation award (far better than nothing).  And spoilers everyone- you don't always get a gold star and reward for "doing your best", so be grateful you have anything.  The long term effects of this are as follows.  People complain about how they felt cheated into not getting the weapon they want, and then forget about it when its (inevitably) offered again.  Sounds much better than the first scenario right?

 

You want a reward you want?  Work for it.

 

You didn't get it, even though you tried your best?  Suck it up and try next time.

 

Believe it or not, every excuse in the book is not going to change the outcome of the event.  If you really want to change it, stop whining about it in the forums, get in the game, and change it.  Every contestable node has gone to the grineer more often than not.  Why?  Because many of the grineer people simply want it more.  The big clan supporters of the grineer, warbros in particular, as of the time of writing this have well over 30,000 points.  The corpus supporters have well over 20,000.  And don't say "oh well they just saw the first reward and picked the side for their reward".  Bullsh*t.  Do you know how big these clans are?  Do you know how impossibly hard it is to, within the first few hours of the event, tell every single person in the clan "hey we are going grineer now", especially if they decided corpus before?  

 

You can blame the grineer clans for being tryhards, or unfair to the rest of the group, but that won't change the outcome of the event.  I, and I'm sure many of them, don't care what you think, because they are already finishing the next invasion.  So if it really means that much to you, get in there and change the outcome.  And if you can't?  Big deal, its a game, and the rewards will be back later.  Hell, you might actuallly get a better version if you wait instead of a garbage version now.

 

[GeoffFromAccounting]

Both lore related titles are functionally meaningless until further confirmation.  The only real development that will come from the gameplay, possibly, from the event is that mars will now be a grineer controlled planet.  However, I think this is unlikely, because that means that they will need a new boss there.  Either way, everything stays functionally the same.  So yes, there is an added benefit to winning from a lore standpoint, but no real functional benefit, other than the gun and sword itself.  Oh and the badge.  Unless the outcome of this event drastically, or even just significantly, changes the course of the lore, then it is meaningless.  Don't misunderstand me, I like lore as much as the next guy, but right now it simply isn't strong enough to have any impact on my playstyle or in game decisions.  The game remains "go from A to B and kill everything between".  You can give Vor this huge back story, but if he stayed the same boss he was before U9, I wouldn't have cared that much.

 

In short, we can't place lore as a definite benefit unless it has permanent consequences.  

 

And DE would really have to make the cost to build the gun obscene to make it a clear inconvenience, especially since this event keeps rewarding rare materials left and right.

 

I posted a more in depth "method to my madness" earlier, so I'll just repost it here.

 

 

I'm still missing why you're so against letting us choose what we want, it causes no harm to players that don't want the Corpus/Grineer weapon, and it keeps people that do want the Grineer/Corpus weapon happy, thus everyone's happy and there's no downside

[Boomstick720]

I'm still missing why you're so against letting us choose what we want, it causes no harm to players that don't want the Corpus/Grineer weapon, and it keeps people that do want the Grineer/Corpus weapon happy, thus everyone's happy and there's no downside

 

See this.

 

 

Lets look at it this way.  Why would DE, who has clearly planned out this event very throughly, reward people the way they do now?

 

Well, lets look at it this way.  Imagine they rewarded people as is commonly suggested, namely, the grineer win and get the slot with potato and weapon, and the corpus supporters, who lose, get their bp.

 

Now, it is almost unquestionable that one of these two weapons will be functionally better than the other in some situations.  Best case scenario has them as side-grades to each other, and has them do better things against better factions.  Now creating 1 weapon to be directly equivalent in "tier" to another is hard enough, but doing a 2vs2 scenario of equal weapons is even harder.  What do you think will happen if suddenly everyone determines that the machete wraith is far worse than the provandal?  Do you think people will just say "oh well, guess that happens".  Knowing people on this forum, there will thread after thread of unending S#&$ storms about how DE cheated the winners of the event and will throw in a few choice phrases as well.  Conversely, if the wraithchete turns out to be far superior to the provandal, people will be whining about how DE has stacked the event even more to punish corpus supporters.  Keep in mind, this is for only TWO of the weapons, not even the ones that everyone is working for.  

 

What happens with the current situation?  The winners get their prize, and the losers get their participation award (far better than nothing).  And spoilers everyone- you don't always get a gold star and reward for "doing your best", so be grateful you have anything.  The long term effects of this are as follows.  People complain about how they felt cheated into not getting the weapon they want, and then forget about it when its (inevitably) offered again.  Sounds much better than the first scenario right?