Necramech Passives, & potential Mech-ability synergies with allies (Including Warframes & Operators)! (Both Mechs are done, any thoughts from Tenno & DE?)

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 20, 2020

_{(Couldn't find a very specific category within Feedback; Not a problem)}

The title might sum it up in short, but I had a chance to sit down and think on this earlier today. I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on these changes / additions for both Necramechs. Especially @[DE]Rebecca & @[DE]Bear (If you have time!), I wanted to get this out in the open as soon as I could, before too long after the Operation was out. These are some changes that may even eliminate the need for bringing back some of those forms of healing for Necramechs (If there is no justification for doing so that is; It would be nice if that could be reverted, but it's not relevant at the moment).

So do you think that the following ideas are realistic for Necramechs in the future? If so, I strongly hope that this can actually happen!

I'll list both Necramechs here, starting with a new passive effect for each, followed by some things for each of their abilities. For the most part, their abilities didn't need a lot of additions, but this was some of the best I can think of. I've been putting forma into my Voidrig to prep for when Orphix Venom arrives on consoles, but I'm still working on crafting Bonewidow, so that (The things I've listed for her) may need more tweaking, as far as she goes.

Voidrig:

Passive: (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)
Spoiler
Backup Power: By holding the gear wheel toggle (Because Mechs don't use a gear wheel), pull up a small interface above the Engine gauge. Select one or more options to divert your engine reserves into, to increase: Ability Strength, Duration, Range, or Efficiency.

Do you want to boost your firepower (Strength), the kick of your abilities (Range), Efficiency (Merging Engine power with energy to reduce energy cost), or how long they last (Fusing Engine power into your next cast so that it lasts longer)?

In more detail:
- (First off, this will work much better if a percentage number can be added onto the Engine guage, given the details)
- When you select one of these options, your Engine power will gradually drain at a rate of 2% per second. It will continue to gather engine power until you hold the gear toggle again to keep the charge or vent it out through your Archgun (Adding to what it can do briefly, noted below).
  - While allocating power, you cannot boost (Slide) continuously, hover, or run until you hold the gear toggle to hold the charge.
    If the Engine power drains due to this allocation, the charge will automatically be held until your next cast. The Engine will need 10-15 seconds to start recovering (At which time you can use it normally), but your charge will be kept.
    
    (If you're already holding a stored charge, you will need to either cast an ability with it, or vent it into your Archgun before beginning a new Engine allocation)
For venting the charge
- If your vent your charge via Archgun (Tap the gear toggle to make your Archgun glow from the inside out), and it's based on Ability Strength, damage will be increased for that full magazine (Until that number of bullets empties).
  - Perhaps a visual guage in your Mech's energy color can appear above the Archgun's listed ammo amount. This guage can look like a bullet chain perhaps (Maybe depending on the Archgun you use), and as it runs out of charged ammunition that decreases, and fades when it's used up.
- Charges of ability efficiency or range will increase the speed of the bullets or other type of fire, letting it go out further and faster (This empties it faster).
- A charge of ability duration increases the duration of all status procs caused by the Archgun's magazine.
For using the charge

If you select multiple options, a varying amount of Engine power will be put into each respective aspect of your ability. This first bit is based on the first three abilities, as Guard Mode is a channeled ability (Noted below).
- The conversion rate for Engine power to Ability (Aspect here) is: 2% engine power equals +1% ability aspect increase. One reason for that is Ability Strength.
  
  Considering that these numbers will add on top of your mods, it may not be needed to have more than 80% ability strength for the Arquebex (To be fair, that thing is strong on it's own!).
- But, it's also a decent increase when you get in the thick of it and plan your combat strategy. Up to 50% of an ability aspect increase may eliminate the need for a mod in your build, allowing you to slot in a utility of some kind, or still stack the mod effects with it!
- I also gave Necramech Thrusters some thought (Since that can double your total engine capacity) last night. There were two possibilities I thought of originally, however they both could lead to people feeling like they have to have the mod in order to make use of the passive. As a result, I don't thnk they're balanced for this.
  
  (I do have a good, sensible reason for the official application of the mod with this though)
  - Original possibilities (For those who're curious; Neither of these are what I'd choose)
  1. With a max rank Necramech Thrusters, that could've increased the Engine's power limit in some way. Either stopping at 50% allocation & hold one collective charge, to let you use the Engine normally without a cooldown...
  2. Or it might've increased the conversion limit so that it's 1% allocation for 1% increase, being completely linear. This could lead to a +100% ability aspect increase on top of your mods.
    
    (Arquebex becomes an even greater tactical nuke launcher, which it doesn't need; It's very good as is, considering how the passive would already work with Guard Mode below).
- Official Application with Necramech Thrusters
  
  Considering how the two above things might feel mandatory (Possibly feeling like costing a mod slot), I think it would make more sense to have no functional interaction between the passive and Necramech Thrusters. If a max rank Thrusters is slotted in, the conversion rate stays the same. One way of looking at that though, is if the guage's percentage number is listed as 200% Engine Power on the HUD, the conversion rate can be thought of as 4% engine power per 1% ability aspect increase. Visually speaking, if you're adding bigger thrusters on the Necramech itself, that might need a larger amount of oomph from the engine to make use of it!
  
  So effectively speaking, the mod doesn't need to interact with this passive, so players don't feel an urgency to increase the capacity.
Taking all this in, when you cast Necraweb, Storm Shroud, or Gravemines, you may need to think of what aspect of them you want to increase on the fly.

It's a simple ability passive concept I think! And it fits right in with the Old War style of the Necramechs (I believe Father would agree with me).

Now if you cast Guard Mode, you can actually divert power to it as you activate the 4th ability!

How it works is:
- Select your ability aspect(s), then once the allocation begins activate Guard Mode. When the Engine drains during the ability, each buff will last at the fullest effect they can be until Guard Mode deactivates.
- As more Engine power is pumped into it, the effect will increase over time!
  - Ability Strength will gradually increase the damage of each shot fired.
  - Ability Range increases how far the shots will go, and (Optional for DE) may increase the blast radius of every shot by the appropriate percentage.
  - Ability Efficiency (Unlike with a normal Archgun) focuses on the energy cost to activate, and subsequent drain over time.
  - Ability Duration focuses more on the energy drain than Efficiency (Since it doesn't help ability cast-cost as well, small balance there!), but it might still work with a mix of Efficiency as well.
- Alternative to this method of using Guard Mode, you can simply hold a previous charge and put it all into Guard Mode at once while your engine recovers from something else.
Finally, here are some important reasons why I thought of this:
1. When the Mech first came out, TONS of mentions regarding how stamina came back, why that was and that it shouldn't be there were on the relevant forum threads (Not meaning to say that they were all complaints or that everyone on those threads disliked it). To be fair, I could see what they meant, as far as that goes.
  - As for how I felt about it, since the Mechs are old school compared to Warframes, I think it's more realistic. They aren't necessarily advanced in the same manner.
  - So when I thought of this passive, I figured it will be a way to make the "stamina bar" no longer just a stamina thing. Now you can actually / actively strategize with it.
    Plus, for a machine like this, it makes sense for it to have some sort of effort-allocation system. The Mech's HUD style is well suited to include such a thing.
2. I feel that this sort of passive represents how Necramechs are the way they are, personally. Especially with the Voidrig bring the first one introduced, it should be a good standard to think about for future Mech development (Including Bonewidow).
3. The Backup Power passive is like an effort to dig in your heels and pull out all the stops to win, which makes sense when sometimes summoning your Mech itself is your last (Or first) ditch effort against the enemy.
4. This way of looking at the passive (& how to make it work), to me does seem balanced as is, and it really makes the player think about what they want to do.
  - Not just with their abilities, but in case they only want to power their equipped Archgun, they have that option too. Putting the choices in the player's hands with this feels like a really fun and engaging way to use the Necramech!
  - In addition, fully draining the Engine shouldn't be too risky as long as you have a way to stay alive with Storm Shroud, to look at it another way. You can quickly start allocating power again or just clear the room of enemies, and prepare for your next enemy engagement.
5. Speaking of player choice, as noted in the passive description, you're free to remove a mod from your build since the Engine can more than make up for a given ability aspect (Up to 50% compared to a 30% mod increase)! But that said, you can also keep the mod in, and then stack the Engine's power onto it too.

Necraweb: (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)
Spoiler
New implementation with Necraweb:

When the Necraweb canister explodes on it's own, or gets shot, two kinds of effects happen (That being the mire or fiery conflaguration); Defense or Offense. Both can be in effect at the same time (With their own durations), but that will need two canisters. Standing / moving around in the mire or fire could absorb some of that fluid into the Mech, and you can take that effect with you outside the area-of-effect.

These effects can be increased by ability strength and duration mods (As well as the potential of Voidrig's Backup Power passive!). Defense and Offensive effects each take 5 full seconds of absorption by the Necramech who stands / moves around in it (Including Bonewidow / future Mechs), and they begin absorbing it the moment they step in the fluids!
- The Defense and Offense aspects listed below will show the minimal effects (1 second of absorption), followed by the full effects (At least 5 seconds) separately. At full absorption, the effect will last until sometime after you set foot outside of the area-of-effect or awhile after the area disappears.
  - However strong of an effect you build up will not go down though, so no need to worry about a diminishing return situation!
- Warframes, Companions & Operators still recieve some benefits from this ability as well (From the original posts' iteration)!
  
  The explanation is a bit more streamlined now below. However, they don't need to wait in the fluids to recieve their own full effects (Not really anywhere on their bodies they can absorb it into, and they're not as tall). Therefore, only the max effects will be listed for them.
  - These effects all stack on top of any relevant mods, etc. they have!
(Defense-oriented)

For Necramechs
- Graviton fluids recover your Mech's HP over time at a rate of 1% of max HP / second for 3-5 seconds (1 second of absorption).
  - At full Absorption (5 seconds), the recovery rate goes up to 3% of Max HP / second for 12-15 seconds.
For Warframes, Companions & Operators:
- Ally Warframes who walk, roll / dodge or sprint through a mire of Graviton fluids become coated in them.
  - This increases jump & bullet jump speed or height by up to 50% (Up to DE), and they fall slower by the same percentage.
  - Ally Companions receive the same level of an increase in those areas by running through them, to keep things consistent. Since Sentinels always fly next to your Warframe, they aren't affected by the Graviton fluids.
- Ally Operators (In void mode or not) who jog / run or slide through the mire have their lower body covered in it, increasing their jogging / running speed by up to 50% (Also up to DE, it could be the same as Frames & companions for consistency's sake though).
- While not in void mode, perhaps that bug of Operator Moon jumps can be memorialized by letting the Operator jump higher and fall slower by the same percentage as Warframes! Movement speed could be based off of the momentum they have when they jump during this.
  - While in Void mode, the total distance of their Void Dash could be extended by 50% (Up to DE) as well, or whichever percentage is determined proper for the other Operator Movement increases.
(Offense-oriented)

For Necramechs
- The Fiery conflaguration fluids flow through the Necramech, and into their weapons. Based on the weapon category (Archgun or melee), rate of fire or attack speed is increased by 10% for 3-5 seconds (At 1 second of absorption).
  - At full absorption (5 seconds), rate of fire or attack speed increases by 50% for 12-15 seconds, effectively adding another +10% per second of absorption (Keeping things consistent!)
    
    (Perhaps except for the Arquebex, I'll definetely let DE decide if it should affect that).
For Warframes, Companions & Operators:
- Ally Warframes who walk, roll / dodge or sprint through the fiery conflaguration have their weapons coated in them (Similar to the Graviton Fluids).
  
  To keep things balanced, their weapons (Other than Archguns / Archmelee) will receive a 30% increase to their melee attack speed and projectile weapons' rate of fire. This is still a decent effect that adds on top of their mods (Part of why they receive a slightly lesser increase)!
  - Archguns / Archmelee will receive the same 50% effect as Necramechs however, to keep the Arch-weapons in line with the Mechs' usage of them.
  - Ally companions running through them receive the same 30% attack speed buff that Warframe melee does. Sentinels will receive the same buff amount to their presently equipped weapon at the same time the Warframe does, to make that easier to manage.
- Ally Operators who jog / run or slide through the fiery conflaguration get their hand / amp coated in it. This increases Void Blast total damage by up to 50% (Up to DE), and Void Beam's damage / rate of fire by the same percentage (Whichever is relevant, if not both). Amps receive a 30% or 50% increase to damage / rate of fire (Also up to DE).
  - While in void mode, certain effects of Void Dash may be affected (We'll need player input from various focus schools for this, I'm still working on getting more focus for everything) as well. This part's a W.I.P.!
Considering how strong the Sentient forces can be in Operation Orphix Venom (& thanks to the help from @Hawkeye2404 :) ), Father or Loid could offer an ability augment mod for Necraweb as well!

(Name is not set in stone though)

New Necraweb Augment: Father's recipe

Polarity: Zenurik (Same as frame augments!)

Total Rank / drain: Goes up to rank 5, adding up to 9 capacity drain (Might need some help from staff and players to tweak these numbers!).
- In addition to the base functions above, this augment adds some more effects for Necramechs and non-Necramech allies, listed below.
  
  The effects will be the same regardless of the type of fluid from the Necraweb canister, so you don't need to worry about shooting it or not.
- Ability Strength and Duration can increase the mod's effects, as well as Voidrig's Backup Power passive.
  - The following effects are provided simultaneously as the base functionality, and last for a period of time based on the augment's rank (If not the fluid's duration, either / or). The power of effect offered is also based on this.
    
    Rank 1 provides +10% of the effect, & lasts for 3-5 seconds. Rank 5 provides 50% of the effect, and lasts for 12-15 seconds (These numbers aren't set in stone).
For Necramechs
- Standing / moving in the fluids now also adds +10% Armor to your Mech for every second of fluid absorption, up to +50%!
  - Mech weapons aren't affected by this (Unless DE wants to add in a Weapon buff from this mod; I'd be all for it).
    
    The reason for the Armor boost is to help with Necramech survivability against higher levels of enemies. Pertaining to Armor, right now there aren't many Necramech mods, so Necramech Steel Fiber is the best we have aside from that.
For Warframes, Companions & Operators:
- All ally Warframes and Companions (Including Sentinels) receive a +50% increase to their total Armor or Damage Reduction, whichever provides more protection from enemy damage (Going to need help from Players & DE Staff on determining which one, since both would be a bit much).
  - This stacks on top of any relevant mods each recipient has at the time, and takes full effect (Based on the Augment's rank?) once they travel through the fluids.
  - Operators not in Void Mode recieve the same effect / percentage as Warframes & their companions, etc., and for the same duration!
    
    Operators in Void Mode (While in Void Mode) can use it for an increased amount of time (Same percentage increase as above), however Void Dashing will take the same amount of energy.
The augment could be offered either from Father or from Loid for 20,000 standing (Only at Max syndicate rank Entrati / Necraloid), similar to the other mods they have!
Storm Shroud is perfect as is! I couldn't think of anything to add in and of itself for this ability.
- Edit (12-21-2020): I rephrased what I mentioned about a possible bug right below this!
  - Other than that, it might be relevant to note Storm Shroud's invulnerability period may / may not be affected by the Voidrig passive's ability duration charge (Up to DE).
    
    That said, ability range charges have no relevancy with Storm Shroud, as far as that goes.
- There is still a possible bug where if you exit the Necramech, Storm Shroud may turn itself off. If it does, you'll have to reactivate it normally (Which naturally costs some energy).
  - One compensation would be to make your next Storm Shroud cast not cost energy, but another method would be to let it stay on no matter what, until the Voidrig is defeated or Storm Shroud is turned off manually.
  - (As far as I know this is still a bug, as of Deimos Arcana)

Gravemines: (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)
Spoiler
New implementation with Gravemines:

How the base ability launches is unchanged, however it can now synergize with the fluids from Necraweb canisters (Since the gravemines come from inside the Voidrig).
- Based on the fluids absorbed, two buffs can be given to the Gravemines and with two canisters both can be used at once. I'll list the numbers the same way as earlier. Exact numbers may need some tweaking!
  - Graviton Fluids can increase the range of the Gravemines (Before they land on the ground) by +5% range for 1 second of absorption; If you cast it anytime before the fluids wear off, the full cast of Gravemines will be affected :)
    
    At full absorption (5 seconds), the Gravemines' range increases by +25% for 12-15 seconds (Using the fluids' duration). That might be long enough for 3 full casts!
    
    This keeps in line with the Defensive theme by covering a larger area, by (Hopefully) keeping enemies farther away from you!
  - Fiery Conflaguration fluids can increase the total damage of each Gravemine (Before or After Ability strength is applied, up to DE), by +5% damage for 1 second of absorption. Just like above, if you cast it anytime before the fluids wear off, the full use of the mines will be affected.
    
    At full absorption (5 seconds), the gravemines' damage increases by +25% for 12-15 seconds (Also based on the fluids' duration!). This could be a pretty good way to hammer your enemies, depending on the situation!
    
    This keeps in line with the Offensive theme by dealing more damage to the enemies near them.
(Optional implementation for DE, if you want to include this or not)
- Considering how the Gravemines are named "mines", what if they simply explode either on-contact with an enemy, or when on the ground once an enemy is within 1-2 meters from a mine? If no enemies get close enough for too long (8 seconds maybe?), they all go off.
  - If the mines are placed in Graviton fluids, perhaps they can float a tiny bit off the ground to hit enemies in the air (If the ground explosion isn't big enough to reach them).
  - If the mines are placed in the fiery conflaguration, perhaps when they explode it could dish out Heat damage based on how long they sat in the fluids.

Guard Mode is very well done, I see no need or reason to change it whatsoever. The level of firepower is balanced by the activation cost & gradual drain, and the fact that you're rooted in place (Plus the animations aren't too fast nor slow!).
- Edit (12-21-2020): With the Necraweb's updated implementation above, any fiery conflaguration fluids absorbed by you or an ally Voidrig will not affect the Arquebex.
  - Perhaps if it receives a bit of a nerf in the distant future, this restriction can be lifted to compensate for said nerf.
  - As things currently stand, using the Voidrig's Backup Power passive with the Guard Mode ability will be good against the enemy, tailored to how the player sees fit.

Next up,

Bonewidow:

Passive: (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)

Spoiler

The Entrati Endure: Whenever Bonewidow kills an enemy, she gains one “Life Charge''. Once the Life gauge is full, Bonewidow can survive the next fatal source of damage that hits her, quickly restoring her HP fully & granting a brief invulnerability period, among other things.

New charges might not be gained during the invulnerability period (Up to DE).
- (Also up to DE) During the cooldown, Bonewidow’s Engine recovers +25% faster (Adding onto relevant mods), and drains +15% slower (Stacking with mods as well).
  - This would be to help extend the use of Bonewidow’s Engines while in the heat of the battle, or when she needs to put some distance between herself and the enemy.
The invulnerability period is not affected by mods (Since it comes from the passive), and the cooldown lasts for 20 seconds (During which time the Life gauge will empty gradually for in-mission reference).
- The Life gauge incorporates the Entrati mechanic of using 5 enemy kills to activate some sort of effect. It doesn’t matter which enemies are killed, as long as Bonewidow deals the final blow.
- Using Transference will not affect the amount of charges Bonewidow has built up. Additionally, the cooldown period will keep going in the event Bonewidow is not being piloted.
  - Once Bonewidow gains a Life Charge, it stays with her until she’s destroyed; Re-summoning her somewhere will not affect her charges.
- The invulnerability period lasts for 7 seconds, which after some thought felt like a good compromise between an unmoddable short 5 seconds (Might’ve been hard to notice it happening), and a lengthy 10 seconds (Which might be longer than necessary).
The gauge may resemble the designs on Bonewidow’s shield, or other Entrati artistry, gradually filling up as enemies are killed. It may appear just above the Engine gauge to reduce screen clutter.
- Perhaps there’s a way to design it to flow over the top / sides of her Engine gauge? That’d be an interesting thing to see :)
In addition to restoring her Health, if Shield Maiden has taken any major damage, it's HP & shields (Not including overshields) will be fully recovered to help with staying alive.
- This only happens if Shield Maiden is in use when the passive activates.
- If it's in use, Shield Maiden will also gain an invulnerability period for the same duration as Bonewidow's.
  - It would be up to DE on whether Shield Maiden can gain even more HP during the passive's activation or not (As this would stack on top of any HP already accrued).

All things considered, I think this might be a more fitting passive for Bonewidow, partly because it's more relevant to her and the Entrati (As much as I love the thought of an Operator + Mech passive).

Using the Entrati-based mechanic makes a lot of sense, when it comes down to it; Considering where Bonewidow was thought of and what her purpose is. The way this passive works and what it does is also an interesting contrast to how Voidrig’s passive works. In a team, the two could complement each other well.

That said, 5 kills is also a decent balance in the short & long term, since at lower levels it can be a quick safety measure to make sure if a stray bullet hits you, it'll be ok. At the same time in higher levels (Perhaps other than Steel Path levels), the general pace of enemy kills vs when they might kill you can ensure you may rack up kills again by the time the gauge empties, keeping the survivability going!

Meathook: (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)

Spoiler

New implementation with Meathook:

For Meathook, I mainly wanted to incorporate the functions from the original idea for Bonewidow's passive (Recorded down in this thread!) into the base ability, so this might be pretty straightforward here.

Enemies that succumb to the health drain of Meathook (Or are killed by enemy fire) may drop a health / energy orb (To heal her / allies and keep abilities running).
- (Not sure if it should be both or not, that could be up to DE)
- I'm not 100% informed on if Meathook not interacting with Shield Maiden created controller issues, but if possible it could be useful to hold block to increase your area of cover (In case enemies go around your shield) while holding an enemy.
  - I'm not sure how / if that'll work with shooting an Archgun, as far as that goes.

Similar to how Voidrig's Necraweb has a possible Augment, I thought it would be good to have an Augment for Meathook as well. That said, the following possible Augment could be added to the base function of Meathook if DE wants to do so.

New Meathook Augment: Mother's Remorse

Polarity: Zenurik (Same as frame augments!)

Total Rank / drain: Goes up to rank 5, adding up to 9 capacity drain (Might need some help from staff and players to tweak these numbers!).

In addition to the base functions above, this augment adds Faction-based buffs for Bonewidow, listed below. The buffs can stack with Voidrig's Necraweb effects as well.
- The effects of these buffs can be increased by ability strength and duration. Since one might want to throw an enemy just to get them out of their way (One way of using Meathook), the buffs start as soon as they're stabbed, and last until some time after they're let go / thrown.
- The base strength and duration of the buff work similar to Necraweb's augment:
  - Rank 1 provides +10% of the effect, lasting for 3-5 seconds after dropping the skewered enemy. Rank 5 provides +50%, lasting for 12-15 seconds after losing the enemy (These numbers aren't set in stone either).
    - Sentient enemies offer a buff at half strength (To balance it out with all other possible factors, unless DE would like to change their buff).
Depending on the Faction of enemy skewered on Meathook, these effects occur:
- Grineer enemies give a temporary damage increase to Bonewidow's melee and ranged damage.
  - (Originally this mentioned "projectile damage", although ranged damage is a bit more specific now. This includes Meathook's throws and Ironbride's ranged attacks!)
- Corpus Enemies give a temporary increase in damage to enemy shields.
- Infested enemies give her a temporary melee and ranged attack speed increase.
  - Edit (12-22-2020 @12:16am): To be fair for all weapon types, ranged attack speed was included!)
- Orokin enemies can offer any or all three of the above buffs simultaneously.
  - Enemies from other factions who get corrupted during Relic Fissure missions may or may not count as Orokin for this augment's purposes (Up to DE on that!).
  - If you happen to get a buff for a particular faction from an Orokin enemy, and you Meathook an enemy from that Faction, it will only refresh the buff's duration (To cover all those bases!).
- Sentient enemies lend Bonewidow some of their damage adaptability (Which still stacks with other defensive mods, etc.)
  - (This type of buff from Sentient enemies is optional, considering how strong it'd be with other damage reduction or Armor increases; I'd be ok with it if their buff got changed!)
  - That said, the adaptability provided from Sentients may need to be made so that it can't entirely negate a damage type against you. It could be done similar to the Adaptation mod, in theory!
- Various Creatures such as wild animals and the animals summoned by Grineer or other factions give her a temporary increase to critical chance and critical damage.
  - For this Augment's purposes, these creatures will not give you a buff from the faction that summoned them.
- These buffs can stack if you skewer & get rid of multiple enemies in quick succession, and each has their own duration, which can be refreshed by Meathooking another enemy of said faction.
  - (Optional for DE) Non-Necramech allies (Including NPCs) who are within the impact zone of an enemy tossed by Meathook may gain the Faction's buff temporarily (Based on Bonewidow's ability duration and / or the Augment's Rank). This could be a fair way for Bonewidow users to choose between keeping the Health aspect, or tossing the enemy to benefit their allies!
    
    (Though, that enemy could perhaps be Meathooked again)

If she has an enemy impaled on Meathook, she can (Once it's unlocked) activate Exalted Ironbride to toss up the enemy from the hook, and kebab them onto the sword.

With Meathook updated here, below we'll dive into how things could work with Ironbride.

Shield Maiden could benefit nicely from the above options, if implemented!
- Since the main realistic things I thought of for Shield Maiden are incorporated into her passive (The Entrati Endure), I wanted to minimize scrolling somewhat for anyone reading this. So the original suggestions I thought of for this ability are now in the hidden thing here :)

Spoiler

(Below are some original thoughts I've had on Shield Maiden, which were (At least somewhat) put into the original passive idea I had for her, which was "Transfer of Power" (A combined effort of the Operator + Bonewidow).

After some feedback though, and personal thought on Bonewidow / that passive (It'd be a lot to work on!), I opted for what her new potential passive is. It doesn't quite involve the use of Void energy of course, so any Void energy going around Shield Maiden could just be an ability augment, etc. in the future.

At the moment, I'm not sure what the name / exact effects of said augment would be. But this isn't relevant to the effects from Bonewidow's actual passive that I listed above.

Perhaps Void energy could expand to cover a bit around the shield, or taunt enemies into focusing fire into that. When / if the Shield breaks, movement speed should go up a bit similar to how Chroma benefits to losing his Armor during Effigy.
The main issue to keep in mind with this, is depending on your energy color it may make it a little harder to see in front of you, unless the energy can be dimmed for you and allies while you / they are aiming with a weapon.

Firing Line sounds useful as is, but perhaps it should be useable while swinging with Ironbride, to create some potential combos with that weapon (The beginnings of an Archmelee stance!).
- Edit 12-26-2020: Other than the above suggestion, the main additions I really thought of for Firing Line were included in Bonewidow's first passive, which is no longer what I'll be going with for her. As a result, there's nothing much new I can think of that would be realistic for Firing Line.
  - Unless DE would like to use that theoretical "Firing Hole" Augment, which is listed within the description for her first possible passive. That would involve the use of Void Energy, and may need more technical work (Unless they made it so you can hold the Firing Line button instead of tapping it, to choose which version you want to use) to get it made properly.

Exalted Ironbride: (Hidden in the quote due to the brief in-depth explanation)

Spoiler

New implementation with Exalted Ironbride:

I still partially think that the Archweapon could need a slight base damage increase (Up to DE), but as long as the combo counter works normally with it (My BW was still crafting as of this writing), that should help somewhat. That said, there are a couple of things I wanted to note here, now that everything else is updated for Bonewidow.

Once you have Exalted Ironbride unlocked on your Mech, you can activate Ironbride while having an enemy stabbed with Meathook. If you have Mother's Remorse slotted on Bonewidow, this allows the buffs you have to transfer onto Ironbride until you decide to throw the enemy; Who will also be taking damage from the projectile & resulting explosion!
- The charged enemy's explosion increases the effective area for the Mother's Remorse Augment (But the buff strength / duration will not be affected via Ironbride).
- The Health drain per second will not be increased by Ironbride. But, Ironbride gains +10% base damage (At minumim ability Rank, can be affected by Ability Strength) against enemy Factions allied with whoever is kebabed (Grineer vs Grineer, etc.).
- Aside from all the above, Exalted Ironbride can also be affected by the fiery conflaguration of Necraweb's fluids, which stacks with mods on the weapon itself as well as Bonewidow's mods!

Edit (12-26-2020):

With all this finally updated, the Voidrig and Bonewidow Necramechs have a reliable way to heal / prepare themselves as well as their squad (No need to worry about using Warframe abilities, etc.), and each Mech has their own unique passive that fits in with their theme & how their abilities work! It took quite some time & help from some other people on the thread, but I feel very confident that if the above things were implemented for these Necramechs, they will be very capable in the hands of the Tenno.

I hope this thread hasn't come too late for those working in Operation Orphix Venom, but in the end, I'd honestly like to see this become a reality whenever Necramechs are needed in the future. Speaking both from the heart and for future Tenno, I would be glad to see this help everyone.

I'll post this on the Bonewidow / Voidrig feedback threads as well, for further reference there. I'll update this if any changes or other important things come up.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 20, 2020

Linked this thread to the Bonewidow feedback thread and Necramech general feedback thread.

For anyone and everyone who saw this (In a scrolling webpage) and was curious, feel free to check on this anytime. I'd like to hear from fellow Tenno & DE staff as much as possible on this.

Hawkeye2404 · December 20, 2020

I was also thinking that Necraweb could provide you some sort of buff or heal you when you stand in it. But I think your new passive ability for the Voidrig should be incorporated into Necraweb's base functionality. He should get another passive ability. Your other Voidrig ideas are also good. Storm Shroud's change I wouldn't mind, and I think Gravmines does need a bit of a buff.

As for your ideas for Bonewidow... I don't own her and I've not yet piloted one of the abandoned/deactivated Bonewidow necramechs that can be found in the event missions and in the Cambion Drift. But I'm busy crafting her, so I'll get back to you on that when I've tested her a bit for myself.

Hawkeye2404 · December 20, 2020

I love the idea that Necraweb has different functionality based on whether you shoot it mid-air on just toss it onto the ground. Having to choose between defense or offense sounds like a good idea.

Perhaps the armor buff should be changed slightly. I think the two different functionalities of the ability should be kept to the same theme - one is strictly defensive and the other is strictly offensive. So either the armor buff should be moved to the defensive side of the ability or something else should be done with it. If the offensive side of the ability also have armor in addition to the damage it does to enemies and the offensive buff it gives you, then people will almost always favor using Necraweb offensively. But I fear that moving the armor buff to the defensive side would then make that side unbalanced.

So my idea is that the armor should be given regardless of whether you shoot the canister or not. And how strong the buff is is not affected by how close you are to the explosion. Instead you slowly build it up the longer you stand in the mire or fire. This new armor affect could even be made into an augment mod for the ability, if it's too strong now.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 21, 2020

15 hours ago, Hawkeye2404 said:

I love the idea that Necraweb has different functionality based on whether you shoot it mid-air on just toss it onto the ground. Having to choose between defense or offense sounds like a good idea.

Perhaps the armor buff should be changed slightly. I think the two different functionalities of the ability should be kept to the same theme - one is strictly defensive and the other is strictly offensive. So either the armor buff should be moved to the defensive side of the ability or something else should be done with it. If the offensive side of the ability also have armor in addition to the damage it does to enemies and the offensive buff it gives you, then people will almost always favor using Necraweb offensively. But I fear that moving the armor buff to the defensive side would then make that side unbalanced.

So my idea is that the armor should be given regardless of whether you shoot the canister or not. And how strong the buff is is not affected by how close you are to the explosion. Instead you slowly build it up the longer you stand in the mire or fire. This new armor affect could even be made into an augment mod for the ability, if it's too strong now.

That makes sense :]

Adding the Armor buff regardless of the type of fluid sounds like a good balance, and standing in the mire for a certain period of time could act as a Risk vs Reward sort of thing, in the event there's enemies around you (It could also be broken on the ground before going into a crowded room as an option). I figured out a perfect Passive for the Voidrig, but I'll need help with figuring out something solid for Bonewidow (She finally finished crafting, but I need to claim her and try her out!).

(Currently typing up the new Voidrig passive, and I'll add it to the original post afterwards)

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 21, 2020

Sorry for the wait! Something came up before I could finish posting this.

This might be quite a read, so it'll be included in a hidden quote, etc. section for the Voidrig in the original post. Let me know what you think:

Backup Power: By holding the gear wheel toggle (Because Mechs don't use a gear wheel), pull up a small interface above the Engine gauge. Select one or more options to divert your engine reserves into, to increase: Ability Strength, Duration, Range, or Efficiency.

Do you want to boost your firepower (Strength), the kick of your abilities (Range), Efficiency (Merging Engine power with energy to reduce energy cost), or how long they last (Fusing Engine power into your next cast so that it lasts longer)?

In more detail:

(First off, this will work much better if a percentage number can be added onto the Engine guage, given the details)
When you select one of these options, your Engine power will gradually drain at a rate of 2% per second. It will continue to gather engine power until you hold the gear toggle again to keep the charge or vent it out through your Archgun (Adding to what it can do briefly, noted below).
- While allocating power, you cannot boost (Slide) continuously, hover, or run until you hold the gear toggle to hold the charge.
  - If the Engine power drains due to this allocation, the charge will automatically be held until your next cast. The Engine will need 10-15 seconds to start recovering (At which time you can use it normally), but your charge will be kept.
    
    (If you're already holding a stored charge, you will need to either cast an ability with it, or vent it into your Archgun before beginning a new Engine allocation)

For venting the charge

If your vent your charge via Archgun (Tap the gear toggle to make your Archgun glow from the inside out), and it's based on Ability Strength, damage will be increased for that full magazine (Until that number of bullets empties).
- Perhaps a visual guage in your Mech's energy color can appear above the Archgun's listed ammo amount. This guage can look like a bullet chain perhaps (Maybe depending on the Archgun you use), and as it runs out of charged ammunition that decreases, and fades when it's used up.
Charges of ability efficiency or range will increase the speed of the bullets or other type of fire, letting it go out further and faster (This empties it faster).
A charge of ability duration increases the duration of all status procs caused by the Archgun's magazine.

For using the charge

If you select multiple options, a varying amount of Engine power will be put into each respective aspect of your ability. This first bit is based on the first three abilities, as Guard Mode is a channeled ability (Noted below).

The conversion rate for Engine power to Ability (Aspect here) is: 2% engine power equals +1% ability aspect increase. One reason for that is Ability Strength.

Considering that these numbers will add on top of your mods, it may not be needed to have more than 80% ability strength for the Arquebex (To be fair, that thing is strong on it's own!).
But, it's also a decent increase when you get in the thick of it and plan your combat strategy. Up to 50% of an ability aspect increase may eliminate the need for a mod in your build, allowing you to slot in a utility of some kind, or still stack the mod effects with it!
I also gave Necramech Thrusters some thought (Since that can double your total engine capacity) last night. There were two possibilities I thought of originally, however they both could lead to people feeling like they have to have the mod in order to make use of the passive. As a result, I don't thnk they're balanced for this.

(I do have a good, sensible reason for the official application of the mod with this though)
- Original possibilities (For those who're curious; Neither of these are what I'd choose)
1. With a max rank Necramech Thrusters, that could've increased the Engine's power limit in some way. Either stopping at 50% allocation & hold one collective charge, to let you use the Engine normally without a cooldown...
2. Or it might've increased the conversion limit so that it's 1% allocation for 1% increase, being completely linear. This could lead to a +100% ability aspect increase on top of your mods.
  
  (Arquebex becomes an even greater tactical nuke launcher, which it doesn't need; It's very good as is, considering how the passive would already work with Guard Mode below).
- Official Application with Necramech Thrusters
  
  Considering how the two above things might feel mandatory (Possibly feeling like costing a mod slot), I think it would make more sense to have no functional interaction between the passive and Necramech Thrusters. If a max rank Thrusters is slotted in, the conversion rate stays the same. One way of looking at that though, is if the guage's percentage number is listed as 200% Engine Power on the HUD, the conversion rate can be thought of as 4% engine power per 1% ability aspect increase. Visually speaking, if you're adding bigger thrusters on the Necramech itself, that might need a larger amount of oomph from the engine to make use of it!
  
  So effectively speaking, the mod doesn't need to interact with this passive, so players don't feel an urgency to increase the capacity.

Taking all this in, when you cast Necraweb, Storm Shroud, or Gravemines, you may need to think of what aspect of them you want to increase on the fly.

It's a simple ability passive concept I think! And it fits right in with the Old War style of the Necramechs (I believe Father would agree with me).

Now if you cast Guard Mode, you can actually divert power to it as you activate the 4th ability!

How it works is:

Select your ability aspect(s), then once the allocation begins activate Guard Mode. When the Engine drains during the ability, each buff will last at the fullest effect they can be until Guard Mode deactivates.
As more Engine power is pumped into it, the effect will increase over time!
- Ability Strength will gradually increase the damage of each shot fired.
- Ability Range increases how far the shots will go, and (Optional for DE) may increase the blast radius of every shot by the appropriate percentage.
- Ability Efficiency (Unlike with a normal Archgun) focuses on the energy cost to activate, and subsequent drain over time.
- Ability Duration focuses more on the energy drain than Efficiency (Since it doesn't help ability cast-cost as well, small balance there!), but it might still work with a mix of Efficiency as well.
Alternative to this method of using Guard Mode, you can simply hold a previous charge and put it all into Guard Mode at once while your engine recovers from something else.

Finally, here are some important reasons why I thought of this:

When the Mech first came out, TONS of mentions regarding how stamina came back, why that was and that it shouldn't be there were on the relevant forum threads (Not meaning to say that they were all complaints or that everyone on those threads disliked it). To be fair, I could see what they meant, as far as that goes.
- As for how I felt about it, since the Mechs are old school compared to Warframes, I think it's more realistic. They aren't necessarily advanced in the same manner.
- So when I thought of this passive, I figured it will be a way to make the "stamina bar" no longer just a stamina thing. Now you can actually / actively strategize with it.
  - Plus, for a machine like this, it makes sense for it to have some sort of effort-allocation system. The Mech's HUD style is well suited to include such a thing.
I feel that this sort of passive represents how Necramechs are the way they are, personally. Especially with the Voidrig bring the first one introduced, it should be a good standard to think about for future Mech development (Including Bonewidow).
The Backup Power passive is like an effort to dig in your heels and pull out all the stops to win, which makes sense when sometimes summoning your Mech itself is your last (Or first) ditch effort against the enemy.
This way of looking at the passive (& how to make it work), to me does seem balanced as is, and it really makes the player think about what they want to do.
- Not just with their abilities, but in case they only want to power their equipped Archgun, they have that option too. Putting the choices in the player's hands with this feels like a really fun and engaging way to use the Necramech!
- In addition, fully draining the Engine shouldn't be too risky as long as you have a way to stay alive with Storm Shroud, to look at it another way. You can quickly start allocating power again or just clear the room of enemies, and prepare for your next enemy engagement.
Speaking of player choice, as noted in the passive description, you're free to remove a mod from your build since the Engine can more than make up for a given ability aspect (Up to 50% compared to a 30% mod increase)! But that said, you can also keep the mod in, and then stack the Engine's power onto it too.

I'm still wondering what sort of passive could be suitable for Bonewidow to complement the Voidrig's Backup Power passive, but I hope you'll like this! Along with a small percentage number indicator next to the Engine guage (So that the player has more information to plan with), I think that this would be very useful for a passive.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 21, 2020

Reorganizing the above post after this (For clarity, the old posts' changes / inclusions are going to remain listed here for history's sake);

I've got some new things to change / list for Necraweb and Gravemines, but this might be a somewhat long post as well, so bear with me. I'm sure if this is all implemented, maybe a Voidrig tutorial can be added to the codex to help players understand all the ins and outs!

(Original posts' iteration)

On 2020-12-19 at 9:24 PM, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

Voidrig:

Passive: This passive will activate from your own canisters as well as those thrown by ally Voidrigs (Including AI-controlled ones, but likely not enemy Voidrigs). Both types of fluid can be in effect at the same time, each with their own durations (Could be based off of when the respective canisters activated)!

When setting foot / getting showered in Necraweb's fluids (Based on whether it explodes on it's own, or gets shot), two kinds of effects happen.

Graviton fluids recover your Mech's HP over time at a rate of 3% of max HP / second for 12-15 seconds, depending on how close you were to the canister. Standing / walking in the fluids can accelerate HP recovery even further (But not for long, if the fluids vanish). I saw something a bit like this suggested once before elsewhere, but this has a more in-depth explanation :)

The fiery conflagration fluids (By shooting the canister) add up to 50% more Armor to your Mech until it wears off (Or when Necraweb wears off, I need to test that ability more), based on how close you were to the exploding canister. Crouching in the fluid coats your weapons in it (Probably not the Arquebex considering that isn't close to the ground when crouching), increasing their damage or rate of fire (Attack speed in Ironbride's case for Bonewidow allies!). The damage or speed increase lasts for the same duration.

Not sure of how big an increase that should be; I thought I should leave it up to DE staff on whether the fiery fluids would boost rate of fire (Archgun fire / melee speed) or damage, although I think rate of fire could make sense, since Bonewidow would have her own speed increase.

The reason for the Armor boost is to help with Necramech surviability (& to be honest, both Necramechs need to have a passive of some kind! This would work quite well considering the below things). Pertaining to Armor, right now there aren't many Necramech mods, so Necramech Steel Fiber is the best we have aside from that.

Necraweb: Some additions;

First off, all allies & their Necramechs benefit from your canister's fluids (No matter if they're Bonewidow or Voidrig, so I dunno if the above passive should just be part of this ability or not). The reason why Voidrig gains HP recovery is to make up for / contrast Bonewidow's Meat Hook having HP recovery. Essentially, it evens out in such a way that players have similar benefits no matter which Necramech they choose, helping both be viable & sustainable picks for a mission!

This encourages team play; & in and of itself, this could be considered like an Old War way for Necramechs to improvise against the enemy when their backs are against the wall. In other words, this might be the perfect way for them to heal in a fair way, without needing the interaction of Warframe abilities (Although that change in update 29.6.0 really surprised me).

For players who don't own a Mech or just aren't using one, this is for you!

Ally Warframes who slide through, roll or crouch-walk through a mire of Graviton fluids become coated in them. This increases jump and bullet jump speed or height, and they fall slower (Hence the Graviton (Gravity?) implication) by some degree.

For the fiery conflagration, it can increase melee attack speed and primary / secondary fire rate.

Operators (Even in void mode) who slide through the mire (Since they don't crouch for some reason, but not relevant nor a problem) have their lower body covered in it, increasing their jogging / running speed by some amount (The same percentage that Warframes receive!). Animal companions may have this effect as well when running through it. The fiery conflagration could increase the damage or fire rate of their amps. Not sure what benefits it can offer while in void mode. For Warframes and Operators, they benefit from the fluids at the same duration or slightly longer / shorter as Necramechs (I'm not entirely sure).

New implementation with Necraweb:

When the Necraweb canister explodes on it's own, or gets shot, two kinds of effects happen (That being the mire or fiery conflaguration); Defense or Offense. Both can be in effect at the same time (With their own durations), but that will need two canisters. Standing / moving around in the mire or fire could absorb some of that fluid into the Mech, and you can take that effect with you outside the area-of-effect.

These effects can be increased by ability strength and duration mods (As well as the potential of Voidrig's Backup Power passive!). Defense and Offensive effects each take 5 full seconds of absorption by the Necramech who stands / moves around in it (Including Bonewidow / future Mechs), and they begin absorbing it the moment they step in the fluids!
- The Defense and Offense aspects listed below will show the minimal effects (1 second of absorption), followed by the full effects (At least 5 seconds) separately. At full absorption, the effect will last until sometime after you set foot outside of the area-of-effect or awhile after the area disappears.
  - However strong of an effect you build up will not go down though, so no need to worry about a diminishing return situation!
- Warframes, Companions & Operators still recieve some benefits from this ability as well (From the original posts' iteration)!
  
  The explanation is a bit more streamlined now below. However, they don't need to wait in the fluids to recieve their own full effects (Not really anywhere on their bodies they can absorb it into, and they're not as tall). Therefore, only the max effects will be listed for them.
  - These effects all stack on top of any relevant mods, etc. they have!

(Defense-oriented)

For Necramechs

Graviton fluids recover your Mech's HP over time at a rate of 1% of max HP / second for 3-5 seconds (1 second of absorption).
- At full Absorption (5 seconds), the recovery rate goes up to 3% of Max HP / second for 12-15 seconds.

For Warframes, Companions & Operators:

Ally Warframes who walk, roll / dodge or sprint through a mire of Graviton fluids become coated in them.
- This increases jump & bullet jump speed or height by up to 50% (Up to DE), and they fall slower by the same percentage.
- Ally Companions receive the same level of an increase in those areas by running through them, to keep things consistent. Since Sentinels always fly next to your Warframe, they aren't affected by the Graviton fluids.
Ally Operators (In void mode or not) who jog / run or slide through the mire have their lower body covered in it, increasing their jogging / running speed by up to 50% (Also up to DE, it could be the same as Frames & companions for consistency's sake though).
- While not in void mode, perhaps that bug of Operator Moon jumps can be memorialized by letting the Operator jump higher and fall slower by the same percentage as Warframes! Movement speed could be based off of the momentum they have when they jump during this.
  - While in Void mode, the total distance of their Void Dash could be extended by 50% (Up to DE) as well, or whichever percentage is determined proper for the other Operator Movement increases.

(Offense-oriented)

For Necramechs

The Fiery conflaguration fluids flow through the Necramech, and into their weapons. Based on the weapon category (Archgun or melee), rate of fire or attack speed is increased by 10% for 3-5 seconds (At 1 second of absorption).
- At full absorption (5 seconds), rate of fire or attack speed increases by 50% for 12-15 seconds, effectively adding another +10% per second of absorption (Keeping things consistent!)
  - (Perhaps except for the Arquebex, I'll definetely let DE decide if it should affect that).

For Warframes, Companions & Operators:

Ally Warframes who walk, roll / dodge or sprint through the fiery conflaguration have their weapons coated in them (Similar to the Graviton Fluids).

To keep things balanced, their weapons (Other than Archguns / Archmelee) will receive a 30% increase to their melee attack speed and projectile weapons' rate of fire. This is still a decent effect that adds on top of their mods (Part of why they receive a slightly lesser increase)!
- Archguns / Archmelee will receive the same 50% effect as Necramechs however, to keep the Arch-weapons in line with the Mechs' usage of them.
- Ally companions running through them receive the same 30% attack speed buff that Warframe melee does. Sentinels will receive the same buff amount to their presently equipped weapon at the same time the Warframe does, to make that easier to manage.
Ally Operators who jog / run or slide through the fiery conflaguration get their hand / amp coated in it. This increases Void Blast total damage by up to 50% (Up to DE), and Void Beam's damage / rate of fire by the same percentage (Whichever is relevant, if not both). Amps receive a 30% or 50% increase to damage / rate of fire (Also up to DE).
- While in void mode, certain effects of Void Dash may be affected (We'll need player input from various focus schools for this, I'm still working on getting more focus for everything) as well. This part's a W.I.P.!

Considering how strong the Sentient forces can be in Operation Orphix Venom (& thanks to the help from @Hawkeye2404 :) ), Father or Loid could offer an ability augment mod for Necraweb as well!

(Name is not set in stone though)

New Necraweb Augment: Father's recipe

Polarity: Zenurik (Same as frame augments!)

Total Rank / drain: Goes up to rank 5, adding up to 9 capacity drain (Might need some help from staff and players to tweak these numbers!).

In addition to the base functions above, this augment adds some more effects for Necramechs and non-Necramech allies, listed below.

The effects will be the same regardless of the type of fluid from the Necraweb canister, so you don't need to worry about shooting it or not.
Ability Strength and Duration can increase the mod's effects, as well as Voidrig's Backup Power passive.
- The following effects are provided simultaneously as the base functionality, and last for a period of time based on the augment's rank (If not the fluid's duration, either / or). The power of effect offered is also based on this.
  - Rank 1 provides +10% of the effect, & lasts for 3-5 seconds. Rank 5 provides 50% of the effect, and lasts for 12-15 seconds (These numbers aren't set in stone).

For Necramechs

Standing / moving in the fluids now also adds +10% Armor to your Mech for every second of fluid absorption, up to +50%!
- Mech weapons aren't affected by this (Unless DE wants to add in a Weapon buff from this mod; I'd be all for it).
  - The reason for the Armor boost is to help with Necramech survivability against higher levels of enemies. Pertaining to Armor, right now there aren't many Necramech mods, so Necramech Steel Fiber is the best we have aside from that.

For Warframes, Companions & Operators:

All ally Warframes and Companions (Including Sentinels) receive a +50% increase to their total Armor or Damage Reduction, whichever provides more protection from enemy damage (Going to need help from Players & DE Staff on determining which one, since both would be a bit much).
- This stacks on top of any relevant mods each recipient has at the time, and takes full effect (Based on the Augment's rank?) once they travel through the fluids.
- Operators not in Void Mode recieve the same effect / percentage as Warframes & their companions, etc., and for the same duration!
  - Operators in Void Mode (While in Void Mode) can use it for an increased amount of time (Same percentage increase as above), however Void Dashing will take the same amount of energy.

The augment could be offered either from Father or from Loid for 20,000 standing (Only at Max syndicate rank Entrati / Necraloid), similar to the other mods they have!

A couple other things, speaking of Necraweb being absorbed.

(Original posts' iteration)

On 2020-12-19 at 9:24 PM, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

Gravemines:

If it doesn't already, perhaps the mines could stagger heavier enemies (But not really big ones like Raknoids, Jackal, or Tusk Thumpers) for a moment. It could give your Mech a chance to recover HP or otherwise benefit from Necraweb's fluids! Other than that, the mines are alright as is :)

New implementation with Gravemines:

How the base ability launches is unchanged, however it can now synergize with the fluids from Necraweb canisters (Since the gravemines come from inside the Voidrig).

Based on the fluids absorbed, two buffs can be given to the Gravemines and with two canisters both can be used at once. I'll list the numbers the same way as earlier. Exact numbers may need some tweaking!
- Graviton Fluids can increase the range of the Gravemines (Before they land on the ground) by +5% range for 1 second of absorption; If you cast it anytime before the fluids wear off, the full cast of Gravemines will be affected :)
  - At full absorption (5 seconds), the Gravemines' range increases by +25% for 12-15 seconds (Using the fluids' duration). That might be long enough for 3 full casts!
  - This keeps in line with the Defensive theme by covering a larger area, by (Hopefully) keeping enemies farther away from you!
- Fiery Conflaguration fluids can increase the total damage of each Gravemine (Before or After Ability strength is applied, up to DE), by +5% damage for 1 second of absorption. Just like above, if you cast it anytime before the fluids wear off, the full use of the mines will be affected.
  - At full absorption (5 seconds), the gravemines' damage increases by +25% for 12-15 seconds (Also based on the fluids' duration!). This could be a pretty good way to hammer your enemies, depending on the situation!
  - This keeps in line with the Offensive theme by dealing more damage to the enemies near them.

(Optional implementation for DE, if you want to include this or not)

Considering how the Gravemines are named "mines", what if they simply explode either on-contact with an enemy, or when on the ground once an enemy is within 1-2 meters from a mine? If no enemies get close enough for too long (8 seconds maybe?), they all go off.
- If the mines are placed in Graviton fluids, perhaps they can float a tiny bit off the ground to hit enemies in the air (If the ground explosion isn't big enough to reach them).
- If the mines are placed in the fiery conflaguration, perhaps when they explode it could dish out Heat damage based on how long they sat in the fluids.

I hope these changes are pretty good! I'll amend the original post in the meantime as soon as I can. When I can, I'd also like to list these changes in the relevant feedback threads :)

Hawkeye2404 · December 21, 2020

Well... I am speechless. I really love your idea! But I'm unsure about having to crouch, slide or bullet jump through the mire/fire to gain the buff. I think you should get it just by standing in it?

And about the Arquebex - In its current state it is way OP. I am convinced that it will be nerfed in the future. And then once it gets nerfed, then it would be fine for it to recieve the buffs as well.

PS Go post it in the feedback thread, yeah! For example, you could post it in these places (at the very least, post it in the Orphix Venom Feedback Megathread):

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 22, 2020

(Still working on Bonewidow's passive as of this posting (Don't have computer access all the time), I just wanted to get her base abilities as good as I can think of before tacking that on!)

(For clarity, the old posts' changes / inclusions are going to remain listed here for history's sake);

I've got a few things to update for Meathook and Exalted Ironbride, but more will be addressed in the next post for Bonewidow's passive (Including her other abilities). I think it would make sense to have a tutorial for Bonewidow as well, unless DE wants to just have a general Necramech Tutorial in the Codex considering how they work compared to Warframes. As per the norm, this will be a bit long (But I'm going put these longer things in hidden areas (I need to see how that works though; Haven't tried it much) in the main post at the top!

(Original posts' iteration)

On 2020-12-19 at 9:24 PM, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

Bonewidow:

Passive: (I'd also like to know what Bonewidow users think about these!)

Enemies that're killed by Meathook (Succumbing to the health drain) may drop an energy orb to fuel her other abilities. Kills from Exalted Ironbride may / will drop a Health orb / larger energy orb (To keep it going longer!). If she has an enemy impaled on Meathook, she can (Once it's unlocked) activate Exalted Ironbride to toss up the enemy from the hook, and kebab them onto the sword.

Depending on the type of enemy skewered on Meathook, it may give her a temporary damage increase, shield damage increase, or attack speed buff (Could be based on the enemy's faction; Grineer / Corpus / Infested respectively). These buffs can stack if you skewer multiple enemies in quick succession, and they can scale with enemy level. The duration of the buff may or may not be affected by ability duration.

Orokin enemies could offer any or all three of those buffs. Sentients could lend Bonewidow their damage adaptability (A partial contrast to Voidrig's Heavy Artillery firepower!)!

Although the Sentient's Adaptability may need to be made so that it won't entirely negate a damage type against you. Maybe it could be similar to the Adaptation mod?

Meathook: Small notes;

There should be a way to have it interact with Shield Maiden / Maiden's Kiss, perhaps while holding block you can hold your skewered enemy next to it to provide further cover? Unless that'l mess up how you can use weaponry (Holding an Archgun and an enemy at the same time, etc.).

Other than that, Meathook is good as is (So long as you're able to stab a target accurately), in and of itself.

New implementation with Meathook:

For Meathook, I mainly wanted to incorporate the functions from the original idea for Bonewidow's passive (In the quote ^ ) into the base ability, so this might be pretty straightforward here.

Enemies that succumb to the health drain of Meathook (Or are killed by enemy fire) may drop a health / energy orb (To heal her / allies and keep abilities running).
- (Not sure if it should be both or not, that could be up to DE)
- I'm not 100% informed on if Meathook not interacting with Shield Maiden created controller issues, but if possible it could be useful to hold block to increase your area of cover (In case enemies go around your shield) while holding an enemy.
  - I'm not sure how / if that'll work with shooting an Archgun, as far as that goes.

Similar to how Voidrig's Necraweb has a possible Augment, I thought it would be good to have an Augment for Meathook as well. That said, the following possible Augment could be added to the base function of Meathook (Considering what I have in mind for Bonewidow's passive (Originally "Transfer of Power"), adding this to that would be a bit much) if DE wants to do so.

New Meathook Augment: Mother's Remorse

Polarity: Zenurik (Same as frame augments!)

Total Rank / drain: Goes up to rank 5, adding up to 9 capacity drain (Might need some help from staff and players to tweak these numbers!).

In addition to the base functions above, this augment adds Faction-based buffs for Bonewidow, listed below. The buffs can stack with Voidrig's Necraweb effects as well.
- The effects of these buffs can be increased by ability strength and duration. Since one might want to throw an enemy just to get them out of their way (One way of using Meathook), the buffs start as soon as they're stabbed, and last until some time after they're let go / thrown.
- The base strength and duration of the buff work similar to Necraweb's augment:
  - Rank 1 provides +10% of the effect, lasting for 3-5 seconds after dropping the skewered enemy. Rank 5 provides +50%, lasting for 12-15 seconds after losing the enemy (These numbers aren't set in stone either).
    - Sentient enemies offer a buff at half strength (To balance it out with all other possible factors, unless DE would like to change their buff).
Depending on the Faction of enemy skewered on Meathook, these effects occur:
- Grineer enemies give a temporary damage increase to Bonewidow's melee and ranged damage.
  - (Originally this mentioned "projectile damage", although ranged damage is a bit more specific now. This includes Meathook's throws and Ironbride's Ranged attacks!)
- Corpus Enemies give a temporary increase in damage to enemy shields.
- Infested enemies give her a temporary melee and ranged attack speed increase.
  - Edit (12-22-2020 @12:16am): To be fair for all weapon types, ranged attack speed was included!)
- Orokin enemies can offer any or all three of the above buffs simultaneously.
  - Enemies from other factions who get corrupted during Relic Fissure missions may or may not count as Orokin for this augment's purposes (Up to DE on that!).
  - If you happen to get a buff for a particular faction from an Orokin enemy, and you Meathook an enemy from that Faction, it will only refresh the buff's duration (To cover all those bases!).
- Sentient enemies lend Bonewidow some of their damage adaptability (Which still stacks with other defensive mods, etc.)
  - (This type of buff from Sentient enemies is optional, considering how strong it'd be with other damage reduction or Armor increases; I'd be ok with it if their buff got changed!)
  - That said, the adaptability provided from Sentients may need to be made so that it can't entirely negate a damage type against you. It could be done similar to the Adaptation mod, in theory!
- Various Creatures such as wild animals and the animals summoned by Grineer or other factions give her a temporary increase to critical chance and critical damage.
  - For this Augment's purposes, these creatures will not give you a buff from the faction that summoned them.
- These buffs can stack if you skewer & get rid of multiple enemies in quick succession, and each has their own duration, which can be refreshed by Meathooking another enemy of said faction.
  - (Optional for DE) Non-Necramech allies (Including NPCs) who are within the impact zone of an enemy tossed by Meathook may gain the Faction's buff temporarily (Based on Bonewidow's ability duration and / or the Augment's Rank). This could be a fair way for Bonewidow users to choose between keeping the Health aspect, or tossing the enemy to benefit their allies!
    
    (Though, that enemy could perhaps be Meathooked again)

If she has an enemy impaled on Meathook, she can (Once it's unlocked) activate Exalted Ironbride to toss up the enemy from the hook, and kebab them onto the sword.

With Meathook updated here, time to dive into how things could work with Ironbride.

(Original posts' iteration)

On 2020-12-19 at 9:24 PM, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

Exalted Ironbride may still need a slight base damage increase, but incorporating Bonewidow's hypothetical passive above will be useful too regardless.

Along with that (I need to test this), if the combo counter doesn't increase damage, etc. for it then that should be rectified. It would be consistent with standard melee in that case.

Exalted Ironbride may be affected by Voidrig's Necraweb (Just to reference it here) with increased attack speed. This attack speed buff can stack at least somewhat with the Meathook buff.

If a Sentient is kebabed onto Ironbride, perhaps that could improve it's effectiveness against the adapted damage of other Sentient enemies? It should perform well enough against every other faction, as they don't adapt to damage like Sentients do.

New implementation with Exalted Ironbride:

I still partially think that the Archweapon could need a slight base damage increase (Only if the passive I had in mind isn't implemented, as it'd make up for it), but as long as the combo counter works normally with it (My BW was still crafting as of this writing), that should help somewhat. That said, there are a couple of things I wanted to note here before tackling Bonewidow's possible passive (Which was originally "Transfer of Power").

Once you have Exalted Ironbride unlocked on your Mech, you can activate Ironbride while having an enemy stabbed with Meathook. If you have Mother's Remorse slotted on Bonewidow, this allows the buffs you have to transfer onto Ironbride until you decide to throw the enemy; Who will also be taking damage from the projectile & resulting explosion!
- The charged enemy's explosion increases the effective area for the Mother's Remorse Augment (But the buff strength / duration will not be affected via Ironbride).
- The Health drain per second will not be increased by Ironbride. But, Ironbride gains +10% base damage (At minumim ability Rank, can be affected by Ability Strength) against enemy Factions allied with whoever is kebabed (Grineer vs Grineer, etc.).
- Aside from all the above, Exalted Ironbride can also be affected by the fiery conflaguration of Necraweb's fluids, which stacks with mods on the weapon itself as well as Bonewidow's mods!

I've got a bit more for all of her abilities in the next post (Which by and large occur in addition to all of these; Again, was originally regarding "ToP"), but any feedback for these will be good too in the meantime. I'm hoping by the time it's done, there'll still be time to include this in the feedback section.

I did check, and apparently I can't reply to any PC update threads for some reason. Otherwise, I'd be glad to include these things for PC updates for [DE]Rebecca to see (And whoever's in charge of the Mechs / whoever first thought of them; I'd really like their opinion on this too).

Hawkeye2404 · December 22, 2020

In regards to your idea for Meat Hook's first augment mod, I've thought of some changes and additions:

Grineer enemies give a temporary buff that makes a certain portion of her damage ignore armor (or something along those lines - your damage "bleding through" enemy armor. An alternative is that it simply increases her melee and ranged damage.
Infested enemies give her a temporary increase to her melee and ranged attack speed.
Animals give her a temporary increase to her critical chance and critical damage. (Animals should for the purposes of this buff be treated as though they are a separate faction of their own. Meaning they will not, for example, grant you Grineer buffs if the animal in question is part of the Grineer faction.)

And that's it for now. My Bonewidow will likely be finishing up later today, so I'll get back to ya when I've tested her properly.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 22, 2020

Looking forward to it! I appreciate your help so far :]

I'm sorry it's taking so long between posts though. I'm mainly using my fiancee's father's computer (Much easier than using my phone), but when he gets home from work around the afternoon, he tends to get on it for quite some time. As soon as I'm done updating Voidrig's things in the top post, I'll edit the things for Bonewidow in the most recent post based on what you mentioned for her, then tackle her passive!

I thought my Bonewidow finished the other day, but I spoke too soon at the time (It was only her last two components), so mine should take a bit less than a day now myself. All things considered, I'm just wondering how some of her mechanics work firsthand (If Ironbride does use / benefit from a combo counter, some minor stuff like that), among other parts of her kit.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 23, 2020

With the above implementations updated for Bonewidow's abilities, I want to get her possible passive listed. As of this writing, my Bonewidow is still crafting in the foundry, so I'm sure this may be amended (Stat-wise) here & there.

(Edit (12-23-2020): Putting this in a hidden thing to minimize scrolling for the page)

Spoiler

Transfer of Power: By holding the gear wheel toggle (To keep it consistent with how Voidrig's passive activates), your Operator will shout from within Bonewidow and supercharge her with Void energy (Insert Goku shouting here :) ).

For the duration of this passive, all of Bonewidow's abilities become enhanced in various ways! They gain some new effects & synergies with each other, thus creating new strategies for players fighting on the front lines. Boost speed also goes up (Void energy bursting out from her thrusters) during this time.

While activating the passive, Bonewidow will glow from the inside-out just like how Archguns glow from the inside-out during Voidrig's passive.
- This actually uses your Operator's energy colors. In addition, other players can hear your Operator's voice if they're close enough to Bonewidow powering up. For the user, subtitles may appear on-screen (To reduce screen clutter) just like during cutscenes (Unless subtitles are disabled).
The Engine gauge begins to glow in your Operator's Energy colors as well, and does not drain. Your Operator's effort can be maintained by using (Certain effects of?) Bonewidow's abilities against the enemy, and you can cancel the passive at anytime by holding the gear toggle again.
- (The duration-replenishment amounts per source need figuring out!)
To keep this balanced, if your Operator starts to become tired, a voiceline (& subtitles if enabled) will play where they mention so:

"(Sounding short of breath) I'm... not sure how much longer I can keep this up... maybe another minute...".

I think a full minute of advanced warning is fair, along with an on-screen effect showing the void energy fading gradually from the engine gauge. The drain will take 60 seconds starting from the end of the voiceline.
- We'll need to balance out the full duration of the passive from start to finish (Including the Engine's eventual drain), but my first guess may be 5-6 minutes. This is factoring in how long your Operator needs to recover, which is about 5-6 minutes (Based on player & DE feedback) as well.
  - When your Operator grows too tired, Bonewidow's powered up state reverts to normal. However, if you cancel it manually, the time to recover is shaved off by at least 1 minute.
- When they do become tired, it will not affect them outside of the Mech.
  - They can transfer into their Warframe and fight normally if they choose, while recovering from the efforts. The reason for this is so that players wouldn't feel like they're locked out of doing things just for using the passive in & of itself.

New ability effects during the passive:

Meathook: (Voidhook? Random thought :) )

Wreathed in your Operator's void energy, the length of Meathook's stab is increased by +25% or +50% (Based on player & DE feedback).
- Immediately deals a Void status proc to your target on the exit-wound of their body. This should help draw enemy projectiles away from Bonewidow a bit better (At least from the front and sides). The duration of this proc can be increased by ability duration, and stays with the target if they're thrown away.
  - Stabbing a Sentient enemy will automatically remove any built-up resistances to other damage types as well. When throwing one towards a group of others, the resulting void-involved explosion will remove more than one of their resistances as well, if they're caught in the blast.
  - It may also be used on Profit-Taker (Up to DE & player feedback) to change it's current weakness, but direct contact will be needed.
- Holding an enemy on Meathook may be able to maintain your Operator's effort for a time (Not indefinitely, as the effect will gradually diminish the longer you hold the enemy) by acting as a conduit of sorts.
  - As one way to restore your Operator's energy, you might need to swap enemies on the fly with Meathook, similar to changing out small batteries.

Shield Maiden:

Your Operator's void energy flows through Bonewidow's shield, expanding it's radius of cover by +25% (Also based on player / DE feedback) from the edge of the shield (So it doesn't obstruct your vision too much).
- A good alternative when measuring out the increased range (Using either the center of the shield or the edge) may be to simply dim the Void energy when aiming, and have it be dimmed when your allies are aiming with their weapons.
- All damage reflected is increased by an additional +25% (To be determined by player / DE feedback) compared to when the passive is not active.
  - If there's a way to allow Meathook and Shield Maiden at the same time without causing a bug for the player, I thought of an optional addition for DE:
    - While using an enemy as a "battery" for your Operator with Meathook, the void energy flow can add overshields to Shield Maiden, to a certain limit (Up to DE). This may accelerate the enemy's decline in effectiveness for your Operator's recovery, since they'll be powering up Shield Maiden as well.
- When performing Maiden's Kiss, there is no energy cost and the shield bash sends out a shockwave of the energy which can lift enemies from a certain distance beyond the shield's reach (Probably the same range increase as the shield itself?). These enemies take more Void damage while lifted.

Firing Line: (Base ability listed first, hypothetical ability Firing Hole next)

With void energy powering Bonewidow, any nearby enemy above and below the range of Firing Line are drawn inward as well (Increasing the coverage height), eventually dragged in front of her.
- Enemies lifted this way take more Void damage (Identical to Maiden's Kiss' amount), but that damage increase here does not stack with the effects from Maiden's Kiss. Enemies' lifted status duration may be refreshed, however.

That said, I actually have something more significant in mind for Firing Line while the passive is active, but this may be turned into an ability Augment if DE wants to go that route.

(Only usable while this passive is active)

Firing Hole:

Concentrating the void energy into her hand, Bonewidow punches (Basically Meathooking) the fabric of space in front of her, causing a thunderclap as she forces open a small hole to the void itself!
- Measured from top to bottom, the diameter is half of Bonewidow's height. This ability can be affected by Bonewidow's ability duration, range & strength!
- There is a 1 second wind-up, in order to have enough force to punch through to the Void. This partially serves as a way to balance out the effectiveness of the ability. The energy cost either remains at 50, or goes up to 75 (Up to DE!) per use.
- Based on the total range of Firing Line in all directions, Firing Hole starts pulling in any pickups and ragdoll-able enemies nearby for 5-8 seconds, dealing 3-5% of the enemy's max HP as Void damage per second. Enemies ragdolled this way take increased damage from external sources of Void damage as well, same as the above abilities; But this increased Void weakness doesn't stack with them either, only refreshing the duration of that weakness.
  - You can think of it working similar to Vauban's Vortex if you like. However, to balance this out Firing Hole can only be re-opened after the hole closes; If you time it right, it can be done as fast as half a second after the previous one.
    - Since the damage scales with enemy health, they will take up to 50% damage from Firing Hole after escaping the first one (Based on player and DE feedback!). This resistance to Firing Hole only happens once per enemy, so the damage will not decrease further than that.
  - (Up to DE) Multiple Firing holes can only be done with more than one Bonewidow, if you're amongst others. If you find a deactivated one somewhere, you might be able to use them to open more at a time.

Exalted Ironbride:

The Operator focuses their energy into Ironbride, as Bonewidow pulls it out. Holding it outward, their energy extends beyond the blade's reach by up to +50% (Based on player / DE feedback), and it gains the ability to remove Sentient damage resistances similar to the Paracesis (Although without innate increases against them).
- That happens by a certain amount of it's total damage (Not including external buffs) being added onto the blade as Void damage (Amount based on player & DE feedback).
- Edit (12-22-2020 @8:27pm): I forgot to mention that since the Operator is focusing their attention on Ironbride, it can serve as another way to prolong the passive's duration (This is still going to need feedback from DE & players of course), as somewhat of an alternative to Meathook.
- During the neutral combo, Bonewidow can activate Firing Line to draw enemies in for the vertical strike.
  - This brief Firing Line doesn't cost energy.
  - Edit (12-23-2020 @1:10am):
    
    Accidentally forgot one thing;
    - If you target enemies caught within Firing Hole, they take an additional +15% to +25% total damage from Ironbride's attacks (Based on player & DE feedback).
- Activating Exalted Ironbride in this state while having an enemy from Meathook may replace the location of their Void Status proc (It'll likely create a new exit wound), but it should still be away from Bonewidow somewhat.
  - When throwing a Sentient enemy (I think that's by tapping the heavy attack?) with Ironbride charged with the Operator's void energy into a crowd of other Sentient enemies, the resulting explosion removes all of their built-up resistances!

(Optional for DE)

While you do not have an enemy kebabed onto Ironbride, holding the heavy attack button will have the Operator channel the rest of their energy into the blade, which accelerates the time remaining for the passive. Bonewidow's Ironbride becomes a (Metaphorical) extension of the Operator's hand.

If you hold your aim, Bonewidow will unleash a powerful Void Beam with a wider diameter than the standard version, punching through numerous enemies and quickly undoing Sentient damage resistances.
- As a result, Shield Maiden's enhancements fade away as she holds the shield off to her left flank. This leaves you open on your right flank, due to Bonewidow holding her arm forward.
When the Operator mentions about growing tired at this point, you may only have 30 seconds to use their power.
- If they run out of time due to this attack, the cooldown time to recover is increased by a certain amount (Determined by player & DE feedback).

I'm sure this will all need to be tweaked (Which is why I mentioned about it in places) over time, although there are a few reasons why I thought her passive could work / exist the way it does.

Since Bonewidow is made to be a front-line fighter, I thought the theme of this passive could merge that with some way to make up for her possible lack of firepower. The Operator serves a good purpose here beyond transference.
- I've also heard that Bonewidow was made by Father based on his wife; When I thought of this, it reminded me of my Fiancee (Who my Operator is based on).
Pertaining to balancing this passive, Bonewidow doesn't have the same exact level of damage output as the Voidrig (Namely the Arquebex), and ultimately it isn't meant to. It can be strong / useful in it's own way.
- By powering up Bonewidow (Like a momentary Void-version of Super Saiyan?), this passive explains how some of her abilities can be enhanced as some players have suggested in the feedback threads!
- In addition, with an appropriate active / cool down period, this might be balanced enough to not be spammed in a time-sensitive mission; Yet in a longer mission or Open world area, the player is still free to have their Operator go Super Saiyan in a way via Bonewidow (Occasionally), and take the fight to the enemy hard and fast.
More specifically from the Necramech's point of view, where Voidrig's Backup Power passive relies on its personal Engine to power up it's ability aspects, Transfer of Power aims to support the idea that Bonewidow is charging into the front-lines, and when needed, briefly retreating while Voidrigs provide cover fire.
Interestingly enough, I don't think there has ever been any passive in the game directly involving the Operator's assistance! So this can be a fun way to do that :)
- Especially the various small references that can be incorporated (If DE wants to go the extra mile with Transfer of Power, when it's physically safe to do so)!
  
  These things would really drive home the inclusion of the Operator helping Bonewidow fight better.

So all things considered, if this passive setup sounds good for players & DE, then there's just a couple of small things to iron (Heh!) out.

Most importantly (As of this writing 12-22-2020);
- How much damage each aspect of this passive does.
- If there's anything I missed with the actions Bonewidow can take, & what else can be explored here.
- How do we measure the cooldown amounts?
  - If you start the passive & (For any reason) immediately deactivate it, should that take just one minute to recharge, or 30 seconds? Some examples like that.
- Should any of these things outside the passive overlap into it, and vice versa?
Aside from that, this passive might need a (Or multiple) new brief voiceline(s) to be recorded, and maybe a brief power-up stance animated (When activating Transfer of Power), but that can always happen later (The important thing is to get these Mechs (Voidrig & Bonewidow) functionally updated before Orphix Venom is over (Unless it'll be rerun someday maybe?) to help anyone struggling with it, if my suggestions are worthwhile!)
- I imagine those sort of details would be up to the sound team / motion capture stuff, if & when that happens.

This is what I've got for Bonewidow's passive, and I'll update her section in the top post once everything is gone through. Any thoughts for her so far?

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 23, 2020

Now that all the major details may be listed for Bonewidow's passive, I'm hoping to figure out the proper numbers for various aspects of it tomorrow.

I'll finally be able to make use of Bonewidow later on, so that should help too.

DrivaMain · December 23, 2020

I like your ideas except Bonewidow's passive. Do not repeat the mistake of Grendel. A passive shouldn't rely on other abilities. Bonewidow's passive should have been included in Meathook. It needs a new passive.

My suggestion is everytime Bonewidow kills an enemy, it gains one "Life Charge". If the charge gauge is full Bonewidow can survive a fatal damage and instantly be healed to full and become invulnerable for a few seconds with a 20 second cooldown per use.

This is to fulfill DE's intention of Bonewidow as a survivalist type of mech.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 23, 2020

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I like your ideas except Bonewidow's passive. Do not repeat the mistake of Grendel. A passive shouldn't rely on other abilities. Bonewidow's passive should have been included in Meathook. It needs a new passive.

My suggestion is everytime Bonewidow kills an enemy, it gains one "Life Charge". If the charge gauge is full Bonewidow can survive a fatal damage and instantly be healed to full and become invulnerable for a few seconds with a 20 second cooldown per use.

This is to fulfill DE's intention of Bonewidow as a survivalist type of mech.

Ah, good to know. I wasn't aware that Grendel had that sort of passive, needing one of his abilities, etc.

Perhaps the new passive for Bonewidow can incorporate the "5 kills -> effect" thing from various Entrati weapons? It actually would be far easier to do than what I had :)

That charge guage could be placed off to a certain area of her HUD, if not a thin guage right above her Engine, perhaps.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 24, 2020

After double-checking how Grendel works, it made sense to change the hypothetical passive for Bonewidow so that it doesn’t rely on her abilities, but instead have it work to help Bonewidow differently. That way it wouldn’t be too flashy or need to create more assets just for the passive.

(Original passive here, for history's sake)

On 2020-12-22 at 7:36 PM, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

Transfer of Power: By holding the gear wheel toggle (To keep it consistent with how Voidrig's passive activates), your Operator will shout from within Bonewidow and supercharge her with Void energy (Insert Goku shouting here :) ).

For the duration of this passive, all of Bonewidow's abilities become enhanced in various ways! They gain some new effects & synergies with each other, thus creating new strategies for players fighting on the front lines. Boost speed also goes up (Void energy bursting out from her thrusters) during this time.

While activating the passive, Bonewidow will glow from the inside-out just like how Archguns glow from the inside-out during Voidrig's passive.

This actually uses your Operator's energy colors. In addition, other players can hear your Operator's voice if they're close enough to Bonewidow powering up. For the user, subtitles may appear on-screen (To reduce screen clutter) just like during cutscenes (Unless subtitles are disabled).

The Engine gauge begins to glow in your Operator's Energy colors as well, and does not drain. Your Operator's effort can be maintained by using (Certain effects of?) Bonewidow's abilities against the enemy, and you can cancel the passive at anytime by holding the gear toggle again.

(The duration-replenishment amounts per source need figuring out!)

To keep this balanced, if your Operator starts to become tired, a voiceline (& subtitles if enabled) will play where they mention so:

"(Sounding short of breath) I'm... not sure how much longer I can keep this up... maybe another minute...".

I think a full minute of advanced warning is fair, along with an on-screen effect showing the void energy fading gradually from the engine gauge. The drain will take 60 seconds starting from the end of the voiceline.

We'll need to balance out the full duration of the passive from start to finish (Including the Engine's eventual drain), but my first guess may be 5-6 minutes. This is factoring in how long your Operator needs to recover, which is about 5-6 minutes (Based on player & DE feedback) as well.

When your Operator grows too tired, Bonewidow's powered up state reverts to normal. However, if you cancel it manually, the time to recover is shaved off by at least 1 minute.

When they do become tired, it will not affect them outside of the Mech.

They can transfer into their Warframe and fight normally if they choose, while recovering from the efforts. The reason for this is so that players wouldn't feel like they're locked out of doing things just for using the passive in & of itself.

New ability effects during the passive:

Meathook: (Voidhook? Random thought :) )

Wreathed in your Operator's void energy, the length of Meathook's stab is increased by +25% or +50% (Based on player & DE feedback).

Immediately deals a Void status proc to your target on the exit-wound of their body. This should help draw enemy projectiles away from Bonewidow a bit better (At least from the front and sides). The duration of this proc can be increased by ability duration, and stays with the target if they're thrown away.

Stabbing a Sentient enemy will automatically remove any built-up resistances to other damage types as well. When throwing one towards a group of others, the resulting void-involved explosion will remove more than one of their resistances as well, if they're caught in the blast.

It may also be used on Profit-Taker (Up to DE & player feedback) to change it's current weakness, but direct contact will be needed.

Holding an enemy on Meathook may be able to maintain your Operator's effort for a time (Not indefinitely, as the effect will gradually diminish the longer you hold the enemy) by acting as a conduit of sorts.

As one way to restore your Operator's energy, you might need to swap enemies on the fly with Meathook, similar to changing out small batteries.

Shield Maiden:

Your Operator's void energy flows through Bonewidow's shield, expanding it's radius of cover by +25% (Also based on player / DE feedback) from the edge of the shield (So it doesn't obstruct your vision too much).

A good alternative when measuring out the increased range (Using either the center of the shield or the edge) may be to simply dim the Void energy when aiming, and have it be dimmed when your allies are aiming with their weapons.

All damage reflected is increased by an additional +25% (To be determined by player / DE feedback) compared to when the passive is not active.

If there's a way to allow Meathook and Shield Maiden at the same time without causing a bug for the player, I thought of an optional addition for DE:

While using an enemy as a "battery" for your Operator with Meathook, the void energy flow can add overshields to Shield Maiden, to a certain limit (Up to DE). This may accelerate the enemy's decline in effectiveness for your Operator's recovery, since they'll be powering up Shield Maiden as well.

When performing Maiden's Kiss, there is no energy cost and the shield bash sends out a shockwave of the energy which can lift enemies from a certain distance beyond the shield's reach (Probably the same range increase as the shield itself?). These enemies take more Void damage while lifted.

Firing Line: (Base ability listed first, hypothetical ability Firing Hole next)

With void energy powering Bonewidow, any nearby enemy above and below the range of Firing Line are drawn inward as well (Increasing the coverage height), eventually dragged in front of her.

Enemies lifted this way take more Void damage (Identical to Maiden's Kiss' amount), but that damage increase here does not stack with the effects from Maiden's Kiss. Enemies' lifted status duration may be refreshed, however.

That said, I actually have something more significant in mind for Firing Line while the passive is active, but this may be turned into an ability Augment if DE wants to go that route.

(Only usable while this passive is active)

Firing Hole:

Concentrating the void energy into her hand, Bonewidow punches (Basically Meathooking) the fabric of space in front of her, causing a thunderclap as she forces open a small hole to the void itself!

Measured from top to bottom, the diameter is half of Bonewidow's height. This ability can be affected by Bonewidow's ability duration, range & strength!

There is a 1 second wind-up, in order to have enough force to punch through to the Void. This partially serves as a way to balance out the effectiveness of the ability. The energy cost either remains at 50, or goes up to 75 (Up to DE!) per use.

Based on the total range of Firing Line in all directions, Firing Hole starts pulling in any pickups and ragdoll-able enemies nearby for 5-8 seconds, dealing 3-5% of the enemy's max HP as Void damage per second. Enemies ragdolled this way take increased damage from external sources of Void damage as well, same as the above abilities; But this increased Void weakness doesn't stack with them either, only refreshing the duration of that weakness.

You can think of it working similar to Vauban's Vortex if you like. However, to balance this out Firing Hole can only be re-opened after the hole closes; If you time it right, it can be done as fast as half a second after the previous one.

Since the damage scales with enemy health, they will take up to 50% damage from Firing Hole after escaping the first one (Based on player and DE feedback!). This resistance to Firing Hole only happens once per enemy, so the damage will not decrease further than that.

(Up to DE) Multiple Firing holes can only be done with more than one Bonewidow, if you're amongst others. If you find a deactivated one somewhere, you might be able to use them to open more at a time.

Exalted Ironbride:

The Operator focuses their energy into Ironbride, as Bonewidow pulls it out. Holding it outward, their energy extends beyond the blade's reach by up to +50% (Based on player / DE feedback), and it gains the ability to remove Sentient damage resistances similar to the Paracesis (Although without innate increases against them).

That happens by a certain amount of it's total damage (Not including external buffs) being added onto the blade as Void damage (Amount based on player & DE feedback).

Edit (12-22-2020 @8:27pm): I forgot to mention that since the Operator is focusing their attention on Ironbride, it can serve as another way to prolong the passive's duration (This is still going to need feedback from DE & players of course), as somewhat of an alternative to Meathook.

During the neutral combo, Bonewidow can activate Firing Line to draw enemies in for the vertical strike.

This brief Firing Line doesn't cost energy.

Edit (12-23-2020 @1:10am):

Accidentally forgot one thing;

If you target enemies caught within Firing Hole, they take an additional +15% to +25% total damage from Ironbride's attacks (Based on player & DE feedback).

Activating Exalted Ironbride in this state while having an enemy from Meathook may replace the location of their Void Status proc (It'll likely create a new exit wound), but it should still be away from Bonewidow somewhat.

When throwing a Sentient enemy (I think that's by tapping the heavy attack?) with Ironbride charged with the Operator's void energy into a crowd of other Sentient enemies, the resulting explosion removes all of their built-up resistances!

(Optional for DE)

While you do not have an enemy kebabed onto Ironbride, holding the heavy attack button will have the Operator channel the rest of their energy into the blade, which accelerates the time remaining for the passive. Bonewidow's Ironbride becomes a (Metaphorical) extension of the Operator's hand.

If you hold your aim, Bonewidow will unleash a powerful Void Beam with a wider diameter than the standard version, punching through numerous enemies and quickly undoing Sentient damage resistances.

As a result, Shield Maiden's enhancements fade away as she holds the shield off to her left flank. This leaves you open on your right flank, due to Bonewidow holding her arm forward.

When the Operator mentions about growing tired at this point, you may only have 30 seconds to use their power.

If they run out of time due to this attack, the cooldown time to recover is increased by a certain amount (Determined by player & DE feedback).

I'm sure this will all need to be tweaked (Which is why I mentioned about it in places) over time, although there are a few reasons why I thought her passive could work / exist the way it does.

Since Bonewidow is made to be a front-line fighter, I thought the theme of this passive could merge that with some way to make up for her possible lack of firepower. The Operator serves a good purpose here beyond transference.
I've also heard that Bonewidow was made by Father based on his wife; When I thought of this, it reminded me of my Fiancee (Who my Operator is based on).

Pertaining to balancing this passive, Bonewidow doesn't have the same exact level of damage output as the Voidrig (Namely the Arquebex), and ultimately it isn't meant to. It can be strong / useful in it's own way.

By powering up Bonewidow (Like a momentary Void-version of Super Saiyan?), this passive explains how some of her abilities can be enhanced as some players have suggested in the feedback threads!

In addition, with an appropriate active / cool down period, this might be balanced enough to not be spammed in a time-sensitive mission; Yet in a longer mission or Open world area, the player is still free to have their Operator go Super Saiyan in a way via Bonewidow (Occasionally), and take the fight to the enemy hard and fast.

More specifically from the Necramech's point of view, where Voidrig's Backup Power passive relies on its personal Engine to power up it's ability aspects, Transfer of Power aims to support the idea that Bonewidow is charging into the front-lines, and when needed, briefly retreating while Voidrigs provide cover fire.

Interestingly enough, I don't think there has ever been any passive in the game directly involving the Operator's assistance! So this can be a fun way to do that :)

Especially the various small references that can be incorporated (If DE wants to go the extra mile with Transfer of Power, when it's physically safe to do so)!

These things would really drive home the inclusion of the Operator helping Bonewidow fight better.

So all things considered, if this passive setup sounds good for players & DE, then there's just a couple of small things to iron (Heh!) out.

Most importantly (As of this writing 12-22-2020);

How much damage each aspect of this passive does.

If there's anything I missed with the actions Bonewidow can take, & what else can be explored here.

How do we measure the cooldown amounts?

If you start the passive & (For any reason) immediately deactivate it, should that take just one minute to recharge, or 30 seconds? Some examples like that.

Should any of these things outside the passive overlap into it, and vice versa?

Aside from that, this passive might need a (Or multiple) new brief voiceline(s) to be recorded, and maybe a brief power-up stance animated (When activating Transfer of Power), but that can always happen later (The important thing is to get these Mechs (Voidrig & Bonewidow) functionally updated before Orphix Venom is over (Unless it'll be rerun someday maybe?) to help anyone struggling with it, if my suggestions are worthwhile!)

I imagine those sort of details would be up to the sound team / motion capture stuff, if & when that happens.

So the original passive may be similar to the Voidrig's (In activation, etc.), but @DrivaMain helped bring in a new way to help Bonewidow.

The Entrati Endure: Whenever Bonewidow kills an enemy, she gains one “Life Charge''. Once the Life gauge is full, Bonewidow can survive the next fatal source of damage that hits her, quickly restoring her HP fully & granting a brief invulnerability period, among other things.

New charges might not be gained during the invulnerability period (Up to DE).
- (Also up to DE) During the cooldown, Bonewidow’s Engine recovers +25% faster (Adding onto relevant mods), and drains +15% slower (Stacking with mods as well).
  - This would be to help extend the use of Bonewidow’s Engines while in the heat of the battle, or when she needs to put some distance between herself and the enemy.
The invulnerability period is not affected by mods (Since it comes from the passive), and the cooldown lasts for 20 seconds (During which time the Life gauge will empty gradually for in-mission reference).
- The Life gauge incorporates the Entrati mechanic of using 5 enemy kills to activate some sort of effect. It doesn’t matter which enemies are killed, as long as Bonewidow deals the final blow.
- Using Transference will not affect the amount of charges Bonewidow has built up. Additionally, the cooldown period will keep going in the event Bonewidow is not being piloted.
  - Once Bonewidow gains a Life Charge, it stays with her until she’s destroyed; Re-summoning her somewhere will not affect her charges.
- The invulnerability period lasts for 7 seconds, which after some thought felt like a good compromise between an unmoddable short 5 seconds (Might’ve been hard to notice it happening), and a lengthy 10 seconds (Which might be longer than necessary).
The gauge may resemble the designs on Bonewidow’s shield, or other Entrati artistry, gradually filling up as enemies are killed. It may appear just above the Engine gauge to reduce screen clutter.
- Perhaps there’s a way to design it to flow over the top / sides of her Engine gauge? That’d be an interesting thing to see :)
In addition to restoring her Health, if Shield Maiden has taken any major damage, it's HP & shields (Not including overshields) will be fully recovered to help with staying alive.
- This only happens if Shield Maiden is in use when the passive activates.
- If it's in use, Shield Maiden will also gain an invulnerability period for the same duration as Bonewidow's.
  - It would be up to DE on whether Shield Maiden can gain even more HP during the passive's activation or not (As this would stack on top of any HP already accrued).

All things considered, I think this might be a more fitting passive for Bonewidow, partly because it's more relevant to her and the Entrati (As much as I love the thought of an Operator passive).

Using the Entrati-based mechanic makes a lot of sense, when it comes down to it; Considering where Bonewidow was thought of and what her purpose is. The way this passive works and what it does is also an interesting contrast to how Voidrig’s passive works. In a team, the two could complement each other well.

That said, 5 kills is also a decent balance in the short & long term, since at lower levels it can be a quick safety measure to make sure if a stray bullet hits you, it'll be ok. At the same time in higher levels (Perhaps other than Steel Path levels), the general pace of enemy kills vs when they might kill you can ensure you may rack up kills again by the time the gauge empties, keeping the survivability going!

Does this seem like what you were thinking of @DrivaMain? I think it might be just the thing she needs.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · December 26, 2020

Bonewidow has finally been updated with all the above information, and I updated the thread title to reflect that.

Thank you @Hawkeye2404 & @DrivaMain for your help with her! Perhaps someday these aspects could actually become part of them. I believe it'll definitely make them more fun to use in the field, at the very least.

I'll go ahead and post each Mech's relevant info on their feedback threads asap. To any Tenno / DE staff that haven't mentioned their thoughts on what's been listed for the Voidrig & Bonewidow Necramechs, feel free to do so. I've been looking around on various other threads to get a feel for what people might be looking for in them, and I think a lot of players will benefit from what there is to see here. If you have any suggestions or things like that, by all means let me know. If it helps the Tenno, then that'll be all the better.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · January 21, 2021

It's been some time since I posted anything on the thread, but with Orphix Venom now over on PC (Unless it became a recurring event someday!), I have a question for everyone & anyone who participated in the event:

If the Bonewidow & Voidrig Necramechs had the above changes I listed (Or at least their passive effects), would it have made fighting with the Mechs a bit better against the enemies in those missions? Would the healing Necraweb have been a good thing to use in squads, or any other specific thoughts regarding these changes? I'm just curious what people would think about how things could've been, had these changes gone into effect.

Also, for answering the question, you can respond no matter how you helped in the event, be it your personal Necramech, or one of the unmodded ones (Since hypothetically they would also have the Passives at least) :)

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · May 5, 2021

I referenced this thread in one of my much-earlier threads, so I thought it couldn't hurt to link this thread back to the most-recent post, to connect the two.

There is one other thing I'd like to mention on here; If the Bruntspar Necramech ever became an official Mech (Rather than only a skin), then I'd be glad to go over it's abilities and see if anything could be improved upon.

Same thing goes for the Cryptonaut, if / when we get the body of that Mech to go with its helmet. Come to think of it, the possibilities with that Necramech could be even greater since we don't have the full design of it now.
I'd really like to see those two fleshed out more someday :)

With Orphix Venom missions now integrated into the game, I still think some suggestions like what I have would help Necramechs quite a lot, in nearly any situation. Does anyone have any thoughts on these things?

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · July 21, 2021

It's been a number of months since I last looked this over, but with The New War coming up in the near-ish future, I'm still curious about what others think of these changes / additions. I've asked before, but part of that is because I just like the potential of what these things could do for both Necramechs :)

To be fair though, there's no way to know if Necramechs will play a role in the War. But I do think it would be pretty cool if more parts of the game were referenced / had a part to play in this, considering the scale of the Sentient's campaign.

(NSW)Gamer-Steve · September 15, 2021

On 2021-05-05 at 2:10 PM, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

There is one other thing I'd like to mention on here; If the Bruntspar Necramech ever became an official Mech (Rather than only a skin), then I'd be glad to go over it's abilities and see if anything could be improved upon.

Same thing goes for the Cryptonaut, if / when we get the body of that Mech to go with its helmet. Come to think of it, the possibilities with that Necramech could be even greater since we don't have the full design of it now.

I'd really like to see those two fleshed out more someday :)

Since the Karnolyth Necramech has arrived, I can add that to the list of Mech models to create / refresh ability kits for someday (Hypothetically speaking).

Since that Mech was made with Infested in the design, perhaps its abilities may be a combination of infested aspects and Mech-like attacks? It could take a few ideas from both Voidrig & Bonewidow, perhaps. Off the top of my head at the moment, I'm not sure what those abilities or passive would be for it; But making sure those abilities can also help Warframes & other allies when the situation calls for it is important too.

At some point in the future I can try to think of something as a baseline for an ability set for these three Mechs (Not that it'll be set in stone), though it'll be a fair while.

Necramech Passives, & potential Mech-ability synergies with allies (Including Warframes & Operators)! (Both Mechs are done, any thoughts from Tenno & DE?)

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