A Concern: A Humble Request For Some Transparency, Maybe - R.E. "Crunch"

[Librus_107]

Hey, uh, this is a heavy topic. And heavy topics tend to explode into horrible fires on the forums! So, uh, be warned. I guess. And I know what I'm starting, yes.

Recently - well, not recently, but recently enough, there's been a lot of talk about Crunch Culture in game studios. Let's not name names right now, but certain... big, hyped up, and very popular titles (including some that were sort of in Warframe's direct area of genre) were revealed to have suffered horribly, full on nightmare story stuff, from having their teams overworked, tired, and worn through to their breaking points and then some. And as such, discussions regarding that culture in studios and communities have started to pop up here and there - and now with a "certain title" basically being a huge, clear and very certain example of how badly these things can go. 

And while the studio management and culture is one entire can o' worms to handle, there's also the fans and gamers themselves - and, uh, seeing the kind of content that's permeating the forums and many creator videos... has me a bit worried about what's going on at D.E.'s desks. Having a community breathe down your necks, getting extremley angry and using vocabulary like "broken promises" and making trends like "D.E.layed" and the like sort of feels like it might be just as bad as someone's manager breathing down their necks, judging their performance. Aforementioned "Big Titles" that have experienced such crunch culture have even remarked on how randoms online send them very... hostile messages. And while I don't know how angry the Warframe community can get, I... wouldn't put it past some of our most angry residents. 

We're in the ending days of probably one of the worst years the world has experienced in a while. A pandemic, being locked in our homes, being forced to work from home for the sake of our - and our loved ones! - health... it's been rough! And D.E. has done a great job doing what they can do keep things going while adapting to this (hopefully temporary) lifestyle. Tennocon was full-digital this year, devstreams had us see everyone at their house... and we got loads of marvelous videos of many of the developers in various sections saying hello and showing how they're handling their jobs from home, sometimes even with humorous little bits here and there. 

But...

I still can't help but worry, especially with the combination of... well, recent topics regarding other games (and their studios), the sheer stress and angst this year has brought down on all of us, and... well, seeing how truly angry and nasty this community can get sometimes. There's millions of us out there, which is a HUGE amount of individuals playing this game - so it's to be expected, yes, that people would get passionate, worked up, have ideas on how things should be done... and get a bit entitled, nasty and truly toxic as they go off the deep end. Sure. But with all this bearing down on D.E. staff, I... can't help but be a bit anxious. 

It's clear even the nastiest of reviews for the latest updates are from people who are passionate as all heck about this game, and want to see it turn into this glimmering, beautiful thing it clearly can and might just become someday. (Save, of course, the truly enraged folk who wish death and destruction on this studio, which... uh, is another problem.) So I'm not going as far to say these people are evil and the sole issue with what's going on here. No. It certainly is an issue, yes, but... well, I'm just starting to learn community management and sociology, so I'm for sure unequipped to talk about it in detail.

The point of this all is...

I'm really starting to worry about how things are going at D.E. right now. All this talk of crunch, crunch culture, and how loud, passionate (and/or truly toxic...) fans can contribute to that - I'd like to humbly ask if we might get a sort of... statement or verification or something from Digital Extremes sometime. I don't know how their work culture is structured and how they're handling things with the pandemic, It's clear updates had to be moved around, and cut apart into more manageable chunks. Things have had to be moved to next year - or even further. As always, due dates have to be a sort of hazy blur, so nobody is breaking any spines or burning out like an Ember at a BBQ-all-you-can-kebab-fest to meet a set deadline - and not disappoint anyone with more "D.E.lays". 

Basically, I just would like some clarity that our wonderful, creative masterminds at D.E. are aware of these problems in studio/community cultures, and are doing their best to stay okay in these more-than-stressful times. I'm worried - and would love to support a studio that handles these things well (by... shoveling more platinum into my bindles, I guess. 😅) 

Like most of my posts, maybe this is just a "me" thing, and is best left untouched or ignored. I'm not the best at making big, important statements, so I'm sure I might have annoyed a few people here and there too - the topics surrounding this are nuanced, blurry, and way, way more complex than how I'm bringing them up here. But on the off-chance someone at the studio sees this, it'd... mean a lot to not just me, but a lot of others, I'm sure. I don't have to hope I'm the only one even a smidgen worried here - while I've seen the worst this community has to offer, I've also seen the best. There's a lot of kind, caring, and very passionate players here - and I'm sure this sort of thing would matter to them too.

I'm no expert, no developer, no manager or nothing special - so maybe I'm 110% wrong here, and/or maybe there's other reasons such a statement or article or w/e should be sent out. But I'm just getting this off my chest - as is seemingly tradition here on these forums.

Crunch culture and stress in a studio is certainly a big thing to worry about - and as we've seen recently in a number of places, can lead to bad practices, people, communities... and results.

Thank you for wading through my on-brand walls of text - and your time reading! ... Please don't flame war me into oblivion. 

[Hierarch777]

I lost nearly all faith in the gaming industry (and many companies/groups/corporations) this whole decade.

Half-baked releases, political nonsense shoved in for the sake of social-engineering, companies woke-scolding us, people that don't even play games defending poorly made titles, shady practices such as background spyware, and ofc workers being mistreated and even fired for the sake of restructuring the crew etc. 

Every year, indie titles seem more enticing than the newest AAA project that gets hyped into oblivion thanks to overkill ad campaigns. Not to mention all the workers that essentially get slave-driven into working overtime...permanently. 

Worst of all, getting called dumb/stupid/a f****** idiot for not liking a Breath of the Wild clone with a gacha system (I swear, these people love to suck off both Nintendo and Mihoyo).

Crunch culture is a goddamn plague upon our hobby. It's ruining the reputation of gaming and us as players and developers. All because, often the wrong people are in the wrong position. 

[Dhrekr]

51 minutes ago, Librus_MT said:

I'd like to humbly ask if we might get a sort of... statement or verification or something from Digital Extremes sometime

I'm sorry, but... what are you expecting to hear? DE[Steve] coming out here and saying "no, here everything's rosey-peachy and relaxed"? Or one heavily-scrutinized employer coming to the forums to say "my boss, who is certainly reading this, is very generous and never crunches me"?

Would we believe any sort of statement? Or do you expect them to come here and say "we are being crunched to no end"?

 

I don't know, man. I share your concern. But asking for "something" is devoid of purpose. Crunches are never publicly acknowledged by companies for a reason - they are always leaked out by whistleblowers. So, most of the time, not hearing anything is the only good signal.

 

[Librus_107]

7 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

I don't know, man. I share your concern. But asking for "something" is devoid of purpose. Crunches are never publicly acknowledged by companies for a reason - they are always leaked out by whistleblowers. So, most of the time, not hearing anything is the only good signal.

I'd disagree there - while before I would have fully agreed, though. 

With this becoming a recently heavy and critical topic, some studios have indeed come forth to explain exactly how they avoid such situations and mental health crises. (The studio behind the roguelike Hades, for a good example). Suffice to say, I meant more "if you're taking steps to prevent it, I'd like to hear about it!" - as you're right, if there was a problem not being addressed, there'd obviously be nothing said. I stated it as "something" because I'm not entirely sure what D.E.'s structure is like, as stated above, and how a statement would take place. Also because, yes, I'm pretty sure this will actually result in absolutely nothing being said or done. I'm more just sharing what's been plaguing my mind as I've been learning about this dilemma - as well as seen how the vocal community sees and regards the developers. 

[YazMatazO]

I heard - and I emphasize ''heard'' here - that DE is actually not that bad at all in terms of crunch. But DE is also pretty good at politics, so go figure.

That said, ex-employers of DE have also said that working there was kind of S#&$ty because of heavily disorganized environment. 

[Dhrekr]

4 minutes ago, Librus_MT said:

some studios have indeed come forth to explain exactly how they avoid such situations and mental health crises

Call me cynical, but I remain skeptical even when they do. I truly mean it - even if [DE]Steve sent me a 30-pages pdf file where a full mental health improvement scheme is outlined, bearing approval seals from the Canadian Health Organisation and Justin Trudeau himself, I'd have no proof they are doing anything other than having a pdf.

It reminds me of the old British series "Yes, Minister", where every time the governament wants to look like they are doing something, while secretly not doing anything, they make a big press statement saying that they have "set up an investigative interdepartemental committee to assess the size of the problem and elaborate an actuable solution". And then they do nothing while the investigative committee writes a report that's going to take years to be produced and will be old and useless when it's published.

 

But I accept that you aren't as jaded as I am. If a statement by someone at DE is what's going to put your heart at rest, then I hope the statement will come, at least for your sake. I'll remain skeptical.

[Librus_107]

3 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

But I accept that you aren't as jaded as I am. If a statement by someone at DE is what's going to put your heart at rest, then I hope the statement will come, at least for your sake. I'll remain skeptical.

I understand - and begrudgingly respect - your perspective on this. I understand well that this is a dark topic, and thus could easily lead to information being manipulated or obscured. But I don't think I'd take D.E. as the kind of group to do that, considering thier scale. But you're correct in that it's entirely a grim possibility.

I do my best to be optimistic - even stupidly so. (Though I am sure this post will indeed result in nothing. :p) 

[vanaukas]

This is all you are going to get from the devs regarding your concerns.