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Bring back regular Alerts but keep nightwave.


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a simple fix would be to add x5 nitain for helping clem missions, or have it as resource drop from stalker/zenuka/G3/alcolytes with 100% chance on non beacon assassin types, but lower chance on alcolytes since they are spawning too often by comparison.

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2 hours ago, Zimzala said:

So the whole argument boils down to some people thinking DE does not give them the components they desire 'fast enough' - just general impatience, got it.

I mean, that's really all this is based on the arguments presented - players unhappy they cannot get what they want in the time they demand, regardless of how DE chooses to guide component acquisition.

IME, many of these same voices are the ones that state the game is too easy and quick to finish.

Logic seems to have left the building...

That's a nice, oversimplified strawman you've got there.

Hey, you know what would actually be helpful and constructive? Instead of just telling us that we're wrong, why don't you tell us what you think?

Why do you think Alerts shouldn't come back? Do you even think that? If they were to return, what kinds of changes would you like to see? What would DE have to do to make you want to play Alerts again? And don't just say something like "make it Nightwave." We already have that, and it isn't even remotely the same thing.

This goes for all you naysayers here that just said something like "Alerts sucked" or "they died for a reason". If you care so little about your own opinions that you can't even be bothered to back them up, why should anyone else care either?

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In my opinion both system could work together but the alerts were terrible in many cases because the longverity was short and because of time zones you could have easily missed your  chance to get something. Nightwave is while not perfect it is more convenient because you have a full week for weekly standings, daily ones also you can retrieve some of them too. 

Currently the alerts would be obsolete because there is no special rewards on them what the nightwave can't have. Maybe if they make the alerts longer, adding different drop tables with different rewards then maybe who does not want to do nightwave challenges can do alerts to grab rewards from there.

What I would like in addition is npcs whom giving you different tasks which would differ from syndicates, NW, alerts and invasions. The rewards could be rare mods, materials or prime items if you do their tasks. This could work if you go to relays, dojo have their own "crew" or random npcs from the starchart could appear in missions to give side quests.

 

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18 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Alerts died for a reason. Take off the rose tinted glasses and alerts were crap.

Nitain drop one 1 per alert and there was only 4 a day making anything with a nitain requirement a long endeavor in building.

Most of alert were pitiful amounts of endo and credits that you earn more doing a normal mission.

Potatoes were a once a month deal.

And well they dissappeared after an hour and the can showbat night so you sleep you lose.

"Making anything with a nitain requirement a long endeavor in building" As if that still isn't the case?! the amount of standing points (IN THE CURRENT CURRENCY I MIGHT ADD) that you need to get even a single nitain.. takes a while.. and on top of that I never said anything about removing it from the nightwave rewards, I just said BRING BACK ALERTS AS WELL

A S W E L L 

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It would be nice if the alerts could be tied into Nightwave.  Maybe have them pop up when Resonance is detected on certain maps and change item rewards to Nightwave credits.  

That way, people are able to buy the items they want, other players aren't feeling pressured to hit every alert (original complaint of the mechanic) and no one is able to excessively bypass progression due to the luck of time zones.

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Never have I nor will I say a game company can do no wrong.

Just because you don't like something, does not mean it's a bad implementation, it only means you don't like it, nothing more.

I have no issue with Alerts, I like random based content just fine, but you make it even more obvious with this post that you don't simply disagree with DEs current acquisition time-table, which is fine and all, but your motive is clearly to just get rewards faster - general impatience and perhaps a dash of entitlement, IMO.

No one forces you to play. If the game impacts your free time negatively, then I suggest you play less.

Edited by Letter13
quoted post removed
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46 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Never have I nor will I say a game company can do no wrong.

Just because you don't like something, does not mean it's a bad implementation, it only means you don't like it, nothing more.

I have no issue with Alerts, I like random based content just fine, but you make it even more obvious with this post that you don't simply disagree with DEs current acquisition time-table, which is fine and all, but your motive is clearly to just get rewards faster - general impatience and perhaps a dash of entitlement, IMO.

No one forces you to play. If the game impacts your free time negatively, then I suggest you play less.

As right as you are and you are most likely whats the difference why he want it ? His motives does not matter
The core of the problem is we had alerts before and no 1 was crying about getting "rewards faster"
There was no problem with it except there was group of ppl who could not play as much as others missed some alerts or most whatever
And i believe thats main reason why nightwave was made 
But how about we find some way for events to be fixed in same fashion? Some ppl couoldnt play during ignis wraith even and get it for their dojos why not give them a chance eh?
I hope that explains how stupid it sounds when someone is defending nigthwave over alerts with extending accessibility for players who cant play so often

But lets ask ourselves INSTEAD of nightwave woudnt it be easier and more reasonable to just extend time of important items? Gift from lotus last idk 3 days? Was there anything preventing nitains formas auras and potatoes to also have longer duration? Which would negate any need for nightwave
And on top of that i do remember change from alerts to nightwave ive seen swarms of players complaining on forums
Didnt see single person defending it so lets not BS ourselves or others and lets not claim nightwave fixed something that could not be fixed with just extending duration of some alerts

-EDIT BELOW-
Also forgot to add
In my country there is a joke which can be used to explain how transition from alerts to nightwave turned out

DAD: Son price of beer went up
SON: Does that mean you will drink less daddy?
DAD: NO! It means u will eat less

Nigthwave over alerts in a nutshell

Edited by ZeroX4
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10 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Never have I nor will I say a game company can do no wrong.

Just because you don't like something, does not mean it's a bad implementation, it only means you don't like it, nothing more.

I have no issue with Alerts, I like random based content just fine, but you make it even more obvious with this post that you don't simply disagree with DEs current acquisition time-table, which is fine and all, but your motive is clearly to just get rewards faster - general impatience and perhaps a dash of entitlement, IMO.

No one forces you to play. If the game impacts your free time negatively, then I suggest you play less.

Its funny you keep calling people that want Alerts back impatient, when the primary reason people hated Alerts was because they were too impatient. They were unable to simply wait for what they wanted, so they were willing to let the game ruin their lives to get it.

One of the biggest strengths of Alerts was that they actually rewarded patience, instead of punishing it. If you didn't like the current offerings, just wait, and better things will come along soon. But you can't do that with Nightwave. If you wait on one thing, you'll never get anything. Which really sucks when the only thing you really want is at rank 30. That means you have to put in 30 items worth of work, just to get one. Am I being impatient when I say that isn't even remotely fair, or reasonable?

Its like having to order a full, three course steak dinner, because that's the only way to get the salad you want.

10 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Just because you don't like something, does not mean it's a bad implementation, it only means you don't like it, nothing more.

There is a very important difference between "I don't like it" and "this is bad". The opposite of what you claim is true, too. Just because you do like something, doesn't mean it isn't badly designed.

For example: DE actually lied to us about Nightwave. They claimed that it was going to to give us more control over what items we got than Alerts did. But having everything locked into the strict, unskippable rank order does the exact opposite. It assumes that every single player puts exactly the same value on each item as every other player. The it forces us all to take them in that order, whether we like it or not.

The only thing we have any control over is the Cred shop, but even then the acquisition of Creds is still locked to the rank system. You need more Creds for something in the shop? Too bad! The next bundle isn't for 6 more ranks, so you'd better grind acts for two weeks to get there. And by then the shop has rotated, so what you wanted probably isn't even available anymore. AND OH WAIT, missing things because you weren't ready is exactly the same problem Alerts had!

Not to mention just how few Creds you actually get, compared to how much you need to spend to get anything worthwhile from the shop. The Nitain requirements alone are absurd. It would take multiple seasons of buying nothing but Nitain to get enough to build everything that requires it. And that's not even considering the fact that DE keeps adding new stuff that needs it, or however many Aura Forma anyone may want to build.

Alerts never forced you to choose between getting different rewards like this. There was no limit on how many things you could get from them, beyond how much time you were willing to spend doing them.

This isn't just me not liking Nightwave. This is Nightwave being a bad system by doing the exact opposite of what DE intended it to do. And it didn't even fix the main problem it was supposed to, either!

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I miss the "oh cool" feeling when logging in and seeing a nice alert. The only times this is a thing now are GotL alerts.. 

Now I log in with "oh #*!% no"  when I see updated nightwave acts.. 

I'm also of the opinion that both could've worked together, and much like the log in system, could've been built upon and made more personalized.. 

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3 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

This isn't just me not liking Nightwave. This is Nightwave being a bad system by doing the exact opposite of what DE intended it to do. And it didn't even fix the main problem it was supposed to, either!

Just your opinion, nothing more.

There are an equal number of voices here that do not agree.

Your opinion of it does not make it a bad design, just something with which you do not agree, as there is no 'game police' or 'game court' you can go to for a 'higher authority' to make a 'decision' on the design...it's all just the opinions of individual gamers, nothing more.

The world is grey/gray, not black and white, especially when it come to entertainment.

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5 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Just your opinion, nothing more.

There are an equal number of voices here that do not agree.

Your opinion of it does not make it a bad design, just something with which you do not agree, as there is no 'game police' or 'game court' you can go to for a 'higher authority' to make a 'decision' on the design...it's all just the opinions of individual gamers, nothing more.

The world is grey/gray, not black and white, especially when it come to entertainment.

Sorry man...i will disagree with you. Nw it is a bad system. 

Until ltoday i dont understand why DE removed alerts. Its force us to get nitain. Needs another ways.

Edited by Vaml77
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2 minutes ago, Vaml77 said:

Sorry man...i will disagree with you. Nw it is a bad system. 

Until ltoday i dont understand why DE removed alerts. Its force us to get nitain. Needs another ways.

And we can agree and disagree all day long, people will argue the minutia until the heat death of the universe, and it will all still be opinions.

You may want other ways, but they are not a need, you can play the game without them, etc.

Want is simply not need.

Like/dislike is simply not an automatic, objective, bad/good.

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15 hours ago, RedZeroInferno said:

"Making anything with a nitain requirement a long endeavor in building" As if that still isn't the case?! the amount of standing points (IN THE CURRENT CURRENCY I MIGHT ADD) that you need to get even a single nitain.. takes a while.. and on top of that I never said anything about removing it from the nightwave rewards, I just said BRING BACK ALERTS AS WELL

A S W E L L 

Still a watse of time to bring back a terrible system.

 Also making anything with a nitain requirement with nightwave is easy, 15 credits for 5 nitain. Thats 50 nitain with that 150 creds you get at the beginning of each nightwave, 15 with every 50 cred rewards and 5 night with every prestige rank. "It's still hard to build stuff that need nitain"  is massive lie

Alerts sucked, take off rose tinted glasses there were unrewarding junk that clogged your notifications  and only had a good reward once a month at 3 am

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I agree anyone that doesn't like waiting months to get vauban or staring at an app all day just doesn't know. As someone who played alerts, nightwave is 100x better I probably bought 100 nitain already this pass. I have no idea what you spend your creds on but its not hard to rank up and getting rewards from nightwave is faster than alerts. I'm just so confused why you want them to bring it back.

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1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

There are an equal number of voices here that do not agree.

Hmm idk about that, it seems the prevailing opinion here is in agreement with OP. Though I put far more value on someone saying "I want something" than on someone saying "I don't want something". How's it hurt you if Alerts come back? Why shouldn't they return? Why can't they be improved? And why not follow your own advice and just "play the game without them" instead of actively arguing against an optional activity people want returned?

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Alerts sucked

Nightwaves suck in its own ways, too. But unlike Nightwave, which comes with a mandatory content burden DE physically cannot keep up with, Alerts could be easily improved to not suck with minimal effort. The system is still there and perfectly functional, and they don't even have to change change it. They just type in different numbers and every one of the problems Alerts had disappears. Add a zero to the duration, add a zero to the reward. Done. And then we can have both. More stuff to do = better.

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2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Hmm idk about that, it seems the prevailing opinion here is in agreement with OP. Though I put far more value on someone saying "I want something" than on someone saying "I don't want something". How's it hurt you if Alerts come back? Why shouldn't they return? Why can't they be improved? And why not follow your own advice and just "play the game without them" instead of actively arguing against an optional activity people want returned?

Not arguing for or against DE making Alerts return.

I simply do not think that stating the Alerts are 'objectively better' as an argument when the real reason is obviously just to get Nitain faster.

My only opinion is that being disingenuous about motives and trying to float opinions as facts is silly.

From the threads I have seen, not just this one, Nightwave and Alerts both have fans and detractors, but Alerts do not seem to be as liked...again, I like random content, does not bother me one bit for Alerts to return.

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13 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Not arguing for or against DE making Alerts return.

Then why post in this thread? And why post like this?

22 hours ago, Zimzala said:

just general impatience, got it.

...

Logic seems to have left the building...

If you're only here to be nonconstructive and argue for the sake of arguing, then leave.

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26 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Then why post in this thread? And why post like this?

If you're only here to be nonconstructive and argue for the sake of arguing, then leave.

Why? Because I have my own brain chemistry just like everyone else. When I see emotional/opinion based arguments masquerading as 'objective facts', I prefer to say something.

I am who I am.

In this instance, I would also like the return of the random content Alerts brought...seeing an argument to bring them back, IMO, is good, until it's really obvious that the argument is based on nothing more than impatience for acquiring a component.

I would like to have supported a more reasonable argument, perhaps based on player enjoyment of the random content as un-boring, something, almost anything, over a tired whine about not being able to get 'all the things' fast enough.

So, with that POV, I responded. I have no desire to support this argument for Alerts returning, even if I would like Alerts to make a comeback of some kind.

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11 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Why? Because I have my own brain chemistry just like everyone else. When I see emotional/opinion based arguments masquerading as 'objective facts', I prefer to say something.

I am who I am.

In this instance, I would also like the return of the random content Alerts brought...seeing an argument to bring them back, IMO, is good, until it's really obvious that the argument is based on nothing more than impatience for acquiring a component.

I would like to have supported a more reasonable argument, perhaps based on player enjoyment of the random content as un-boring, something, almost anything, over a tired whine about not being able to get 'all the things' fast enough.

So, with that POV, I responded. I have no desire to support this argument for Alerts returning, even if I would like Alerts to make a comeback of some kind.

Your logic here is so flawed on so many levels that you dont even for a second think about it and how wrong are you
But dont take it as an attack on you its not i have nothing against you i just want you to read this and try to look at it objectively 

We wanted forma craft times to be shorter by an hour and we get it and it changes only that it can be now overlapped over 24 hours course while most of us fail to craft constantly anyway
We wanted shorter time to build RJ just because it was too long and how much faster its now? Eh?
We wanted to remove cyst from nidus to be removable faster than 7 days after infection i think now its instantly or after 1 day whatever
And i can go on with examples

But look its ok to anticipate something its ok to want something faster there is absolutely nothing wrong in it and as you see some ppl in de understands that and you cant? So???

And again i will repeat myself IT DOES NOT MATTER why he wants alerts back you are not judge here to decide whos arguments are solid or worth anything
I want them back because i would wish to do 1 mission to get reward and i dont want to have item i want hidden behind "go do animal captures" or "capture all 3 eidolons"
or whatever else stupid it can be
I want do 1 normal mission and get that bloody reward or few misisons cold be structured like invasions i dont mind
He may want ot just because he would get it faster 
Whatever is the reason who should even care?

I may want chocolate to get fat he may want chocolate because he like to eat it with milk and he just happen to have jug of milk WHATEVER

Accept the fact someone may want different than you that should be enough of a reason for you

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Another I want everything and I want it now post, hidden behind alerts.

No.

Alerts were trash.

Giving you all the nitain you want will follow with a "game is empty" post.

 

If you want those items that much, trade for plat and buy them.

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2 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Just your opinion, nothing more.

There are an equal number of voices here that do not agree.

Your opinion of it does not make it a bad design, just something with which you do not agree, as there is no 'game police' or 'game court' you can go to for a 'higher authority' to make a 'decision' on the design...it's all just the opinions of individual gamers, nothing more.

The world is grey/gray, not black and white, especially when it come to entertainment.

How exactly is it my opinion that DE lied to us? That Nightwave does the exact opposite of what they claimed it would do? Or that it didn't even actually fix the biggest complaint people had about Alerts? I would link to the post showing what I mean, but its long since been deleted from the announcements forum.

And when was I treating anything like a binary extreme? Nightwave is a bad system, yes, but its not bad enough that it needs to be completely deleted. Alerts were the same. They were also flawed, but not so bad they couldn't be fixed. And, both would most likely work much better together. They can make up for each other's weaknesses, and give players more choices. What about that is black and white?

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Not arguing for or against DE making Alerts return.

I simply do not think that stating the Alerts are 'objectively better' as an argument when the real reason is obviously just to get Nitain faster.

My only opinion is that being disingenuous about motives and trying to float opinions as facts is silly.

From the threads I have seen, not just this one, Nightwave and Alerts both have fans and detractors, but Alerts do not seem to be as liked...again, I like random content, does not bother me one bit for Alerts to return.

For how much you love hiding behind them, you really don't seem to understand how opinions actually work. Or even what is and isn't an opinion. You dismiss everything anyone says as "just your opinion", and don't even bother to try adding anything constructive to the discussion. Then you wonder why nothing ever changes. Why you can't ever convince anyone of anything. Its your own fault for lumping facts and theories into the same pile as opinions, then calling it all worthless.

If you ever want to actually convince anyone of anything, you need to actually use facts to back up your theories to support your position. But you can't do that if you consider everything anyone says just a meaningless opinion, now, can you? Of course, you don't even have a position to back up here, since you said you don't even care if DE brings back Alerts. So all you're doing with your cowardly, noncommittal, dismissive BS is muddying the waters of someone else's pond, and making it harder to determine what is even being discussed anymore. Real helpful there, buddy.

Here, let me clearly label everything in my argument for you, to show you how this works: Opinion: Nightwave sucks. Opinion: I enjoyed Alerts. Fact: Purely by numbers, Nightwave offers far less rewards for more work than Alerts did. Fact: We all have to take all of the low ranked rewards to get to the high ranked rewards, regardless of if we actually want each one. Opinion: I don't care about most of the low ranked rewards Nightwave offers. Opinion: This is extremely frustrating. Because: Fact: Every reward someone doesn't want just means they need to grind even more standing until they get to the next one they do want. Opinion: This is bad design. Because: Fact: It assumes that every player will want every item, and places the same value on each one as every other player, which is never going to be true. Fact: Alerts weren't like this. If you didn't want a reward, you would lose nothing if you didn't take it. Opinion: This is far more reasonable than Nightwave's ranked system. Because: Fact: Its far more flexible, gives more choice to the players, and takes into account that different players want different items at different times. Theory: If both Alerts and Nightwave were available, and we could get the rewards from either one, it would make them both much more enjoyable and effective systems. Because: Fact: More choices makes it possible to satisfy more players. And more happy players means a more successful game.

You see how this works? Notice all those opinions that are followed by a Because: Fact:? I wonder why that is? It couldn't be that all opinions are actually formed from facts, could it? Nah, that can't be! Opinions are completely baseless and meaningless, right?

Let's break down your argument, too: Opinion: We all just want to get Nitain faster. And: Assumption: That's ALL we want. Because: Assumption: We're all just greedy and impatient people. Therefore: Theory: Our opinions are invalid.

Huh, That's strange. I don't see any facts in there. Just those assumptions that you can't possibly prove. And you know what they say about Donkeys and Umptions. Or was that butts and eyes? Hmmm...

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Honestly, I just miss having a small list of missions I could do quick and simple and easy going to get me back into the swing for the day, instead of just staring at the start chart wondering what I feel like doingfirst, before eventually deciding that I may as well just get back off and log on another time. I've hit rank 30 on the current nightwave months ago, and there's nothing there to entice me to do a quick mission just to waste a specter on standing or something. At this rate all I have left to use for that purpose are 'Help Clem''s and Ayatan Hunts, but wait those only refresh once a week..

P.S. The reply above mine was solid GOLD to read X'D

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