Bring back regular Alerts but keep nightwave.

[Zimzala]

18 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

You see how this works?

Huh, That's strange. I don't see any facts in there. Just those assumptions that you can't possibly prove. And you know what they say about Donkeys and Umptions. Or was that butts and eyes? Hmmm...

Yes, I see how this works, anyone that does not agree with your opinions gets ridiculed with your elementary schoolyard antics.

You seem to be under the impression I want to change your opinion, or that of others, which has never been my outlook.

You also seem to be under the impression there is an 'argument' here to 'win', which is IMO never the case, we are simple discussing outlooks and opinions.

You do this to the degree that it's obvious this is some PvP, e-peen, personality enhancing thing for you, from my POV, it's kind of sad.

You have your opinions, I have mine, but having anything close to a meaningful conversation with you is not possible, because you have decided, and shown me here on these forums, that if someone disagrees with you, you label them as insane, so there is no real reason to converse with you, this will be my last response. have a good life.

[RedZeroInferno]

The irony of this is beyond comprehension. 

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

You have decided, and shown me here on these forums, that if someone disagrees with you, you label them as insane.

Self-awareness: 0%.

Your entry to this thread was literally to label the people you disagreed with insane.

On 2021-01-15 at 11:22 AM, Zimzala said:

Logic seems to have left the building...

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Yes, I see how this works, anyone that does not agree with your opinions gets ridiculed with your elementary schoolyard antics.

And in another thread not too long ago you called people who wanted improvements to the game's trade systems "robber-barons" that want to "practice capitalism and screw-your-neighbor". If you want schoolyard antics, look inwards. Maybe try and follow your own advice?

 

[Zimzala]

1 hour ago, RedZeroInferno said:

The irony of this is beyond comprehension. 

The part where you cussed at me to shut up and admitted your only goal was to get Nitain faster because DE was sucking our life away from you?

Not so much ironic as funny, TBH, from my POV.

I can talk about these ideas and opinions as being good or bad, relevant or silly, and attack the ideas and opinions with vigor, without attacking the person.

You, and others, simply cannot do that, so there is little reason to try and converse.

Just something that occurs on game forums IME, not the end o the world, it just means a couple less people to have spirited debate with are available. Some people are simply incapable of making the distinction. 

The idea of getting Alerts back to gain resources faster is terrible, IMO.

I would love some random content like Alerts provided, but I do not care at all if I can gain rewards/components/Nitain any faster or slower than I can now, I just like random content.

No personal attacks. The ideas, the opinions, from my POV can be terrible, inane, uninformed, etc. but the person is still not attacked, the ideas are. I see no point in responding to people that start schoolyard antics after being censored for it already. Have a good life.

5 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Self-awareness: 0%.

Your entry to this thread was literally to label the people you disagreed with insane.

And in another thread not too long ago you called people who wanted improvements to the game's trade systems "robber-barons" that want to "practice capitalism and screw-your-neighbor". If you want schoolyard antics, look inwards. Maybe try and follow your own advice?

 

There are players that want to play robber-baron that play these games, I know a couple personally, it's how they play all online games like this that have an economy. And?

By observing there are players that do things in game, I am not attacking an individual person, I am giving a negative connotation to an idea, because the robber-baron mentality can ruin the economy of games.

[PublikDomain]

10 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

And?

And you're being a hypocrite. Again. You constantly S#&$ on people's ideas and insult them, calling them lazy or impatient or greedy, and then when someone treats you the same way you get all defensive about it.

Quote

nothing I have ever seen from you has any real value, just bluster and llama-drama.

What a fitting quote.

[Zimzala]

2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And you're being a hypocrite. Again. You constantly S#&$ on people's ideas and insult them, calling them lazy or impatient or greedy, and then when someone treats you the same way you get all defensive about it.

What a fitting quote.

I do dump on ideas and insult those ideas, Not the people.

There are posters from whom I have seen nothing of value, filled with useless drama, IMO, yes, but that is all still reference to what the person has shared in the public forum, not a reference to them as a person.

IMO, the desire to gain resources like Nitain faster means someone is not interested in waiting as long as the game dictates to get them, making the outlook that of impatience or even greed, yes. An outlook a person has, but not a trait that defines them, or that I am claiming defines them, simply an outlook/opinion/POV that is being displayed from my POV, just as you see a hypocrite in me from your POV.

Our opinions differ, neither of them is more or less valid, they are just opinions.

[Myscho]

This nonsense is still alive ? 

[PublikDomain]

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

I do dump on ideas and insult those ideas, Not the people.

Why? What value do you think you bring to a conversation by constantly acting like that? And I dunno about the second part, chief. Not too long ago you called me a "wanna-be capitalist" and a "robber-baron" and said that I and people like me should leave Warframe and play a different game because I dared hold the opinion that improving the ingame trade tools was a good idea.

Getting us a little back on topic:

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

IMO, the desire to gain resources like Nitain faster means someone is not interested in waiting as long as the game dictates to get them, making the outlook that of impatience or even greed, yes.

So what? If someone wants a good thing for what you think is a bad reason, that doesn't make the good thing they want any less good. Bringing back Alerts would be beneficial to everyone and detrimental to no one. Even better, it's an addition that's damned near free because the ingame systems to support it are all still there (and still in active use for things like GotL), the changes that needed to be made to fix the only two issues with it are trivial, and the system is proven to be reliable and ran live without interruption for over half a decade.

[Surbusken]

The concept of nightwave is to shoe-horn content.

You take all the garbage content that would see no action if it didn't have a mandatory, locked resource behind it and then you use it to put a gun to people's head.

The way around it is, as always, completely ignore their agenda, and let the nightwave points recruit themselves over time to get nitain extract, never having actively played it.

Luckily since they are so far behind their own schedule you should have no problems generating enough points for currency.

But yes you are of course right it's always pathetic having to crutch shoe-horn content rather than it being played based off its merits.

Killing off the alerts was a nerf giving you less reason to pay attention to the game - with the amount of money people put into the game it's kind of greedy not to have random alerts giving out items and rewards regularly. And one wouldn't have to exclude the other.

[Teljaxx]

11 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Yes, I see how this works, anyone that does not agree with your opinions gets ridiculed with your elementary schoolyard antics.

You seem to be under the impression I want to change your opinion, or that of others, which has never been my outlook.

You also seem to be under the impression there is an 'argument' here to 'win', which is IMO never the case, we are simple discussing outlooks and opinions.

You do this to the degree that it's obvious this is some PvP, e-peen, personality enhancing thing for you, from my POV, it's kind of sad.

You have your opinions, I have mine, but having anything close to a meaningful conversation with you is not possible, because you have decided, and shown me here on these forums, that if someone disagrees with you, you label them as insane, so there is no real reason to converse with you, this will be my last response. have a good life.

If you aren't here to change anyone's opinion, then why are you here? That's the entire point of discussions, debates, arguments, and conversation in general. You share your point of view, in hopes of making other people agree with you.

What I can't understand about you, is why you insist on spending so much effort on doing something you clearly think is impossible. If you truly believe you can't change anyone's mind about anything, no matter what, then why have you spent so long trying to do exactly that?

If it truly is a "thing in your brain" like you said, and you actually can't help yourself, you might want to consider therapy. And I don't mean that as an insult, either. Talking to a therapist can be extremely helpful for anyone, and let you fix problems you didn't even know you had. Admitting you're wrong, and that you need help is not a sign of weakness, its how you grow as a person.

9 hours ago, Zimzala said:

I do dump on ideas and insult those ideas, Not the people.

There are posters from whom I have seen nothing of value, filled with useless drama, IMO, yes, but that is all still reference to what the person has shared in the public forum, not a reference to them as a person.

IMO, the desire to gain resources like Nitain faster means someone is not interested in waiting as long as the game dictates to get them, making the outlook that of impatience or even greed, yes. An outlook a person has, but not a trait that defines them, or that I am claiming defines them, simply an outlook/opinion/POV that is being displayed from my POV, just as you see a hypocrite in me from your POV.

Our opinions differ, neither of them is more or less valid, they are just opinions.

Those assumptions you based your argument on? Those do exactly what you claim you aren't doing.

Its sad, really. I intentionally left a flaw in my analysis of your argument, hoping you might be able to catch it and correct me. But you didn't. See, there is actually still a fact you based your argument off of. Because, as I said, there always is. Here, that fact is that yes, lots of people are talking about Nitain. And yes, most of them seem to want to be able to get it faster.

The problem is that you buried that fact under assumptions. And not just assumptions about their arguments, but assumptions about them as people. Deciding that the only reason they are dissatisfied with the current Nitain gains is simply that they are all too greedy, and impatient. And then you assume that because they are such flawed people, they aren't worth listening too.

Did you ever consider that maybe the reason this is such a common complaint is not because everyone but you is greedy? But that maybe the system itself is flawed?

Nitain stands out from all the other resources in the game in one very important way: Its acquisition methods. Its the only resource that is only available when the game says so. With anything else, you can go farm some more whenever you want. You find a blueprint that needs 2 argon crystals? You can immediately do a couple void missions and grab them. Or, if you want, you can do it later. Its all up to you.

But Nitain? From Alerts, it was entirely dependent on catching one of those 4-in-24 hour rotations by chance. And then you could still only get one at a time, while most things require several at a time. And even with Nightwave its still not much better. First, you need to get Creds, which are locked to certain ranks. Then you need to not spend those Creds on anything else in the shop. Because if you do spend them all elsewhere, you then have to grind to the next Cred rank before you can get more. So its still not really under your control when you get Nitain. The main choice you can make is when not to get it, which isn't very helpful.

Technically, it is possible to find Nitain in certain missions, from hidden caches. But in all the hours I have spent trying to do that, I have never found even a single one. So unless I am simply incredibly unlucky, that method is so unreliable it may as well not even exist.

All this combines into a system that encourages players to act greedy, and hoard all the Nitain they can, when they can. Because in all likelihood, it wont be available when you need it. But that doesn't mean we are greedy, it just means we're playing the game the way it tells us we should play it. And that way sucks. Having to choose between obsessively pre-farming as much as possible, or slowly collecting it after you have something that needs it isn't a good choice to have to make. Because neither option is much fun.

Personally, I would rather detach Nitain from Alerts and Nightwave all together, and make it work more like any other resource. But I doubt DE would ever do that. So instead the best we can hope for is something that simply makes it more consistent within the existing systems. And bringing back Alerts would do that, plus more.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

I wonder why people come here to say "alerts were bad"? Since no one is asking for nightwave to be removed, and only wish for alert to be added back along nightwave, what is your problem with it? Can any of you give an explanation for your vitriol? What does it matter if someone wants to get more nitain? How does that hurt you, or the game? I truly don't understand.

[strfish]

I agree but not specifically for Nitain Extract.

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Yggranya said:

I wonder why people come here to say "alerts were bad"? Since no one is asking for nightwave to be removed, and only wish for alert to be added back along nightwave, what is your problem with it? Can any of you give an explanation for your vitriol? What does it matter if someone wants to get more nitain? How does that hurt you, or the game? I truly don't understand.

Because we have toxic community here
Even if 1 game aspect change that would affect the ones that would actually use it others will say no just to say no or just because they want to force others to play like they play
I bet most of the ppls advocating for alerts NOT to come back would be happy to remove from game warframes or weapons they dont use so others could not enjoy them so we all play like they play and like they want us to play

Is kinda same idea like behind ignis wraith
Whatever de opinion is about it ppl will come here and eat alive any1 who would even mention for an option to get ignis wraith BP in their dojo one way or another
NO ONE would need to do it if he/she would not want to have ignis wraith in their dojo but ppl will advocate instead for others not being able to get it
We dont have so lets not have it
That just speaks for itself on the community quality we have here

Just to be clear i dont care about ignis wraith i did buy bp for plat im not even using it i dont care just an example

[Teljaxx]

On 2021-01-18 at 6:29 AM, ZeroX4 said:

Because we have toxic community here
Even if 1 game aspect change that would affect the ones that would actually use it others will say no just to say no or just because they want to force others to play like they play
I bet most of the ppls advocating for alerts NOT to come back would be happy to remove from game warframes or weapons they dont use so others could not enjoy them so we all play like they play and like they want us to play

Is kinda same idea like behind ignis wraith
Whatever de opinion is about it ppl will come here and eat alive any1 who would even mention for an option to get ignis wraith BP in their dojo one way or another
NO ONE would need to do it if he/she would not want to have ignis wraith in their dojo but ppl will advocate instead for others not being able to get it
We dont have so lets not have it
That just speaks for itself on the community quality we have here

Just to be clear i dont care about ignis wraith i did buy bp for plat im not even using it i dont care just an example

You're probably right for at least some people. But overall, I think its a bit simpler than that.

I think most people are afraid that there will once again be items exclusive to Alerts. And, because they didn't enjoy Alerts before, they don't want to be forced to do it again. Which I totally understand, since I don't particularly enjoy doing Nightwave, yet I have to if I want to get any of the things that are only available there. Hence why having the choice between the two is what I really want to see.

This is also a mostly unfounded fear, since it makes the assumption that Alerts would come back exactly as flawed as they were before, despite how stupid DE would have to be to do that. Though, they also aren't helping anything by simply saying "I don't want it", and not bothering to suggest any improvements they would like to see or anything.

Though, I have also seen plenty of elitists out there, too. They love Nightwave because of how "dedicated" you have to be to get through it. They want all the exclusive items to be hard to get, so that no one else can have them if they don't show the same "dedication". So if Alerts came back, and made all the Nightwave stuff easier to get, that would ruin all that for them. Showing off those rank 30 cosmetics wouldn't mean nearly as much if you could also get them from Alerts, or anywhere else. But, since their fun comes at the expense of everyone else's fun, who cares about them?

[ZeroX4]

17 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

I think most people are afraid that there will once again be items exclusive to Alerts. And, because they didn't enjoy Alerts before, they don't want to be forced to do it again. 

WAT???

So they want to be forced to do multiple missions and tasks and waste even more time to get 1 item with nightwave
Rather than to be forced to do ONE missions and get reward after it from alerts?

PLZ tell me that my engrish is so bad i did NOT read that correctly

[Teljaxx]

56 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

WAT???

So they want to be forced to do multiple missions and tasks and waste even more time to get 1 item with nightwave
Rather than to be forced to do ONE missions and get reward after it from alerts?

PLZ tell me that my engrish is so bad i did NOT read that correctly

I think its more the whole "forced to wake up at 4:00 a.m. to get stuff" thing, since that's the most common complaint I have seen about Alerts. Even though, as I said earlier, they did NOT force you to do that. The people that did that, did it to themselves by being too impatient.

Either way, its a silly fear, if its true. But its the most likely reason I can think of that people wouldn't want Alerts to come back.

[ZeroX4]

22 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

I think its more the whole "forced to wake up at 4:00 a.m. to get stuff" thing, since that's the most common complaint I have seen about Alerts. Even though, as I said earlier, they did NOT force you to do that. The people that did that, did it to themselves by being too impatient.

Either way, its a silly fear, if its true. But its the most likely reason I can think of that people wouldn't want Alerts to come back.

Either way simple fix would be to extend time of important alerts like ones with nitains or potatoes or whatever (few days or whole week should be ok) while ones with endo credits or resources be shorter
Also ppl can feel forced to wake up at 4:00 a.m. to do nightwave so that argument makes no sense

And alerts could coexists with nightwave nothing is standing in the way 

[RedZeroInferno]

Yeah my whole suggestion, again, is not to get rid of nightwave completely, in fact I stated that in the beginning of the thread in the first place, Not getting rid of Nightwave, Just bringing back Alerts AS WELL, I've said this multiple times in this thread.. I really don't understand what peoples supposed problem with this suggestion even is?

[Heiven]

Excluding every thing that was typed so far the Alerts did have one really Big problem apart from the RNG and that was the Alert duration. Because of that every one had to use the "warframe gadget" and/or the mobile app in order to know if there was a Alert worth doing. If DE brings Alerts back every one would have to use those software's again and will have to constantly monitor and stress for every "Alert ring".  For that extra chance of getting more a bit faster! Is it really worth it all the stress and monitoring?

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

This last string of 3 comments is why I just shake my head and sigh whenever this topic comes up. It's like when people hear "bring alerts back" they think "without any changes exactly like they were!"... when most (if not all) suggestions to bring Alerts back include logical changes to address their obvious flaws.

[Teljaxx]

On 2021-01-19 at 5:56 PM, Heiven said:

Excluding every thing that was typed so far the Alerts did have one really Big problem apart from the RNG and that was the Alert duration. Because of that every one had to use the "warframe gadget" and/or the mobile app in order to know if there was a Alert worth doing. If DE brings Alerts back every one would have to use those software's again and will have to constantly monitor and stress for every "Alert ring".  For that extra chance of getting more a bit faster! Is it really worth it all the stress and monitoring?

As I said before, the two main problems Alerts had were the loot pool being overloaded with junk, and each one not lasting long enough. This made it so that, once you had almost everything you wanted from them, you had to wait forever for one of the last few things you still didn't have to show up. Then once it did, it might have only been available for an hour at 4:00 a.m. And if you missed that, then who knows how long it would be until you got another chance, or if that chance would even be during your usual playtime. This is what made people feel like they had to ruin their lives to get anything out of it. It didn't actually force you to play like that, but it did encourage it. And that was still a problem.

So if DE were to fix that, it would be a much better system. And it should be pretty easy to fix, too. Simply clean up the loot pool by increasing the value of the "useless" rewards, and cut down on the overall amount of junk rewards. And then increase how long each alert lasts for. I suggested around 2~3 hours for a common drop, and 4~5 hours for a rare item.

And, Alerts could also be used to streamline Nightwave a bit too. DE could add Cred bundles to the alert rotation, and remove most of them from the Nightwave ranks. This would mean a more steady flow of Creds from Alerts AND a more steady flow of actual interesting items from Nightwave. And, you would hopefully need less Creds for stuff in the shop, since most/all of it of it would also be available from Alerts. It would just take a bit of luck that way, instead of saving your money for it. It would basically be another version of the "pay or grind" system the entire game runs on, but using an in game currency, instead of Platinum.

And, of course, the biggest advantage having both would bring is giving everyone more choice in how to play. No one would be forced to do one or the other, so we could all choose whichever is the most convenient, or enjoyable, for us.

On 2021-01-19 at 8:04 PM, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

This last string of 3 comments is why I just shake my head and sigh whenever this topic comes up. It's like when people hear "bring alerts back" they think "without any changes exactly like they were!"... when most (if not all) suggestions to bring Alerts back include logical changes to address their obvious flaws.

Its that kind of useless "feedback" that so many people give that makes it so hard to actually discuss anything on these forums. And why I usually end up spending more time trying to get people to actually form a proper argument, and support their opinions properly, than actually arguing against them. Because what are you supposed to say against "it sucked"? You don't know why they feel that way. You don't know what they didn't like about it. You can't even predict what kinds of changes they would like. All you can do is make assumptions about what they want, and how they feel. And that rarely works out. So, the best option is usually to just ignore them. But ignorance doesn't help progress, either.

And don't even get me started on the people that think simply saying "you're wrong!" over and over is an effective strategy... Suffice it to say: Debates aren't won by proving your opponent wrong. They are won by proving yourself right.

[ZeroX4]

18 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

Its that kind of useless "feedback" that so many people give that makes it so hard to actually discuss anything on these forums.

Ok Mister serious argument

What else you need to understand that ppl want alerts back with some reason behind it?
What else we can say here that was already said here?
What alerts FLAW you can come with other than other ppl here that was NOT proven to be easily fixed with alerts environment?

We could have extended time for important alerts same as gift of lotus or from lotus or whatever its called which last few days
And there goes your argument about short alerts time

ABSOLUTELY everything in this game become JUNK after we have too much of it
Dont blame alerts for that

Here is idea lets keep nightwave but bring back alerts
Lets instead of useless idk 100 endo alerts give nightwave creeds so each one you care to do will give you same reward as nightwave

MAYBE lets limit then players with some creed cap so creeds you get only from alerts or only from nightwave or from both cant go higher than some cap same as we have daily cap for standing

There are literally tons of tons of ways to make alerts better than they was? were? ware? damn bad engrish here

Only thing that lack is good will which in your case i dont see any
Why You may ask?

Because ppl left here so many ideas and solution to alerts becoming better and fixing their flaws that no one especially space lord like me should even give you any more explanation how to bring alerts in better way

So whatever more feedback u need just go back and read every single idea that was presented in this topic and you will find all you need WITH serious arguments you desire
Have fun and clem clem

[Heiven]

2 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

As I said before, the two main problems Alerts had were the loot pool being overloaded with junk, and each one not lasting long enough

And this is what i tried to avoid by starting my comment with "Excluding every thing that was typed so far" in order to bring attention to the point that IF Alerts do get back people would again stress out of missing out on the alerts. And would go for the different programs in order constantly track the alerts like there life depended on it instead of being as easy going as they are now with nightwave . Also yes im f...ing aware how much time it took to get what you wanted from the alerts! And at this point in the thread it should be obvious for everyone, should it not?

2 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

And it should be pretty easy to fix, too. Simply clean up the loot pool by increasing the value of the "useless" rewards, and cut down on the overall amount of junk rewards. And then increase how long each alert lasts for. I suggested around 2~3 hours for a common drop, and 4~5 hours for a rare item

Yeah yeah easy fix, very easy ....... sept DE decided to not do it even if it was asked for a year or more and they decided to move to something entirely els! So doesn't that mean that they decided not to bother with alerts any more?!

Btw what does "increasing the value of the "useless" rewards" mean? By value you mean amount or drop changes or what?!

Also by your idea for the mission timers extensions, counting the idea for the rarity chances wouldn't it all balance it self out to how it was in the first place? So instead of getting huge amounts of missions for the "X" reward you would get the "Z" reward missions(or in your mind DE wouldn't/shouldn't change the chance of us getting the more of the good stuff?)!? And DE would have to switch the reward pools so that we don't get only missions for the creds, forma, potato's and so on. Aaaaaaannnnddd then they would have to figure out the amounts, rarity, drop chances or use the same values as it was. A N D it looks like it wont change a dam thing to how it was, sept for having longer time to start the mission.  Yes very easy and simple, indeed!

2 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

And, Alerts could also be used to streamline Nightwave a bit too. DE could add Cred bundles to the alert rotation, and remove most of them from the Nightwave ranks

So move most of the creds from the main system into the other in order to get rewards for less time needed than as it is now, yeaaaaaah suuuure. And at what amount should the bundles be at 30, 50, 200(🤣) and at what rarity? Just don't say super common and 100+!!!

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

@ZeroX4 I think you're replying to the wrong person, or misinterpret what was said, because Teljaxx is on your side :)

[ZeroX4]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

@ZeroX4 I think you're replying to the wrong person, or misinterpret what was said, because Teljaxx is on your side :)

Its not about sides there are no sides here while i dont have anything against @Teljaxxif you felt like that then im sorry but that was not my intention
We all want for our gameplay experience to be better

We came here because we believe we want to fight for something or to defend it
Every little bit of argument or idea we could have was already posted here
And coming here now and saying "hey you wrote something stupid and thats the reason why i dont want to come here because of that" wont help any1

I just feel we are voicing our opinions while its just an lecture for others instead of sign that something needs to change