Bring back regular Alerts but keep nightwave.

[Teljaxx]

11 hours ago, Heiven said:

Yeah yeah easy fix, very easy ....... sept DE decided to not do it even if it was asked for a year or more and they decided to move to something entirely els! So doesn't that mean that they decided not to bother with alerts any more?!

Back when DE decided to simply remove Alerts and replace them, they had a tendency to overreact to player feedback. They would see a small, but very vocal group of players complaining about something, and decide that everyone hated it, it was completely unsalvageable, and then just get rid of it. The very nearly did the same thing with Baro Ki'Teer as well, when people were complaining that he didn't bring enough new stuff each rotation.

They also clearly hate ever going back to anything they have already "fixed". They have always had a problem with only fixing things going forwards, but never doing anything with what already exists. Like adding cool new effects to new Prime weapons to make them more unique, but never going back and doing the same for the older ones. Or how most new Frames have some extra resource aside from energy to keep their abilities in check, but old frames don't.

So its really not surprising that DE hasn't brought Alerts back, no matter how simple or difficult it might be. And they never will, unless we can prove that there are enough people that actually want it.

12 hours ago, Heiven said:

Btw what does "increasing the value of the "useless" rewards" mean? By value you mean amount or drop changes or what?!

Most of the "junk" rewards from the old loot pool were the credits and basic resources. But the only reason they were considered useless is because you got so few of them per Alert. So instead of giving like 1,500 credits, they should give more like 15,000~30,000, maybe even more. Then, more people might actually find them worth doing.

12 hours ago, Heiven said:

Also by your idea for the mission timers extensions, counting the idea for the rarity chances wouldn't it all balance it self out to how it was in the first place? So instead of getting huge amounts of missions for the "X" reward you would get the "Z" reward missions(or in your mind DE wouldn't/shouldn't change the chance of us getting the more of the good stuff?)!? And DE would have to switch the reward pools so that we don't get only missions for the creds, forma, potato's and so on. Aaaaaaannnnddd then they would have to figure out the amounts, rarity, drop chances or use the same values as it was. A N D it looks like it wont change a dam thing to how it was, sept for having longer time to start the mission.  Yes very easy and simple, indeed!

I'm not sure I quite understand what you're saying here. But it sounds like you're complaining that my suggestions wouldn't actually let you get things faster? If so, that's not really the point. I hope to make getting things more consistent, and give players more choice in how they get stuff, but not necessarily make it go faster overall.

And of course it would take quite a bit of tweaking and balancing to make sure all the rates are correct. That's how all game design works. But, this task in particular should be relatively easy for a veteran studio with several hundred employees that has been working on this game for almost 8 years to do. Saying "game design is hard" isn't an excuse. Every job is hard. That's why you get paid to do it. So if making games is too hard for DE to figure out, then what are we paying them for?

12 hours ago, Heiven said:

So move most of the creds from the main system into the other in order to get rewards for less time needed than as it is now, yeaaaaaah suuuure. And at what amount should the bundles be at 30, 50, 200(🤣) and at what rarity? Just don't say super common and 100+!!!

I am thinking this for the new Alert rotations: Three tiers with separate reward pools for each. And the lower the quality, the faster it goes, so you hopefully wont have to wait very long for something better to come along. But you also won't be as likely to miss the good stuff.

• Common tier: 1~2 hours each. Large bundles of credits and star chart resources, small bundles of Kuva, 1~2 Argon Crystals, and small Nightwave Cred bundles. Maybe even add some of the open world resources that are usually exclusive to mining and fishing to this tier.
• Uncommon tier: 2~3 hours each. Forma, Potatoes, Large Kuva bundles, aura and augment mods, weapon blueprints, and large Cred bundles.
• Rare tier: 3~5 hours each. Helmets, weapon skins, Vauban parts, Nitain, Exilus adapters, and possibly some of the Nightwave rank rewards. At least ones like Inventory slots and special Forma, where getting multiples of them can still be useful, if not the seasonal cosmetics as well.

Small Cred bundles should be around 5~10 Creds each, large should be 15~25, and 2~3 larger ones should still be available in the Nightwave ranks. Specifically, keep the big 150 one at the first rank. And, everything beyond rank 30 should still give nothing but Creds.

There's probably several things that should be moved to a different tier. And I probably forgot some stuff. But that seems like a good "first draft", and should show what my overall concept is.

[Teljaxx]

12 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

Its not about sides there are no sides here while i dont have anything against @Teljaxxif you felt like that then im sorry but that was not my intention
We all want for our gameplay experience to be better

We came here because we believe we want to fight for something or to defend it
Every little bit of argument or idea we could have was already posted here
And coming here now and saying "hey you wrote something stupid and thats the reason why i dont want to come here because of that" wont help any1

I just feel we are voicing our opinions while its just an lecture for others instead of sign that something needs to change
 

@(PSN)AyinDygra is right. For the most part, we seem to agree, and want the same thing. But you do bring up some good points. Specifically:

15 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

ABSOLUTELY everything in this game become JUNK after we have too much of it

Dont blame alerts for that

This is a big problem that both Alerts and Nightwave have. They basically wear out over time. They are really only fully functional when the player in question still needs or wants everything they offer. The less stuff you want from them, the less enticing they are, and the longer you have to wait for a non-junk reward. And since the whole point of them is to entice people to keep logging in, and keep playing, that's not good.

This is because both systems rely primarily on extrinsic rewards, and not intrinsic, as their motivation. They offer very little in the way of extra fun while you are playing, and really only offer an end goal. Something you get after you're done playing, and not while your playing. Because what do Alerts or Nightwave challenges offer in terms of gameplay that you can't simply do elsewhere? The only reason to do them at all is if you want the items they currently offer. So if you don't want that item, then why bother? And if you don't want any of the items, then why bother doing any of it at all?

Alerts are better about this than Nightwave, because you can simply ignore ones you don't want, without losing anything. And Nightwave is better about this than Alerts, because every new season brings completely new items. So even long time players will, at least theoretically, still always have new stuff to get. But neither system is perfect.

Really, this is a problem with the entire game. Because almost every system in this game relies more on extrinsic rewards than intrinsic as the primary motivation to keep people playing. So the only way I see this problem being fixed in Nightwave or Alerts, is if the entire game were to get an overhaul, and remove pretty much all the grinding, first. And I doubt that's going to happen any time soon. So, we'll just have to deal with it, and try to make the most of it. And the best way to do that is to give more choice to players about when and how they get stuff.

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, Teljaxx said:

This is because both systems rely primarily on extrinsic rewards, and not intrinsic, as their motivation. They offer very little in the way of extra fun while you are playing, and really only offer an end goal. Something you get after you're done playing, and not while your playing. Because what do Alerts or Nightwave challenges offer in terms of gameplay that you can't simply do elsewhere? The only reason to do them at all is if you want the items they currently offer. So if you don't want that item, then why bother? And if you don't want any of the items, then why bother doing any of it at all?

Alerts are better about this than Nightwave, because you can simply ignore ones you don't want, without losing anything. And Nightwave is better about this than Alerts, because every new season brings completely new items. So even long time players will, at least theoretically, still always have new stuff to get. But neither system is perfect.

Really, this is a problem with the entire game. Because almost every system in this game relies more on extrinsic rewards than intrinsic as the primary motivation to keep people playing. So the only way I see this problem being fixed in Nightwave or Alerts, is if the entire game were to get an overhaul, and remove pretty much all the grinding, first. And I doubt that's going to happen any time soon. So, we'll just have to deal with it, and try to make the most of it. And the best way to do that is to give more choice to players about when and how they get stuff.

NO NO NO!
This is problem with how WORLD itself is and have nothing to do with the game itself

Ill give you simple example with something different which will help you understand that problem originates from how things are in this world
 

Unemployment
That is cool word
We wish to have 0% unemployment but we cant
Why? Well lets consider why ppl make new work places? Well because there are ppl who would come there and get employed there doing the work at that work place
So if we would have 0% unemployment no new business would open no new workplaces would be made because there would be no 1 to fill that new work places
And its not because some dark forces are behind the scenes preventing us from living in utopia its only like that because thats how world works
And we are experiencing exactly same crap with alerts and nightwave rewards

I really dont care what i get as an reward im MR30 i dont get from this game anything i need or want
I only see missions i would want to do while it would me give some reward i dont care about
I could go to idk interception or defense or maybe even defection
But for the love of god not retarded 5 perfect animal captures
Not to capture all 3 eidolons or profit taker or exploiter orb or anything else stupid enough that dont feel like mission to be made but as time waster so you got bussy
Go deploy glyph in the toilet or something
I like profit taker i can solo it without a problem but when its locked from many players behind quest with RNG my god how fun is that to see it as mission you should make and being unable to do so?
Exact same thing can be said about exploiter and eidolons
And that animal captures well not all of ass go to sleep with fluffs next to our pillow

I just fail to see how nightwave is better than alerts could be or was in any way

[ZeroX4]

Here we go

Alerts (IF they had extended time) where you would do only ones you want for rewards you want
VS
Nightwave GRIND your way trough tons of crap you dont need or want to get 1 item you want
 

One could argue that if he didnt have time for nightwave how he could have time for alerts?
I would say maybe if he didnt need to do tasks that waste more time and reward less he could manage
But who am i to judge

[Teljaxx]

On 2021-01-22 at 7:50 AM, ZeroX4 said:

NO NO NO!
This is problem with how WORLD itself is and have nothing to do with the game itself

Ill give you simple example with something different which will help you understand that problem originates from how things are in this world
 

Unemployment
That is cool word
We wish to have 0% unemployment but we cant
Why? Well lets consider why ppl make new work places? Well because there are ppl who would come there and get employed there doing the work at that work place
So if we would have 0% unemployment no new business would open no new workplaces would be made because there would be no 1 to fill that new work places
And its not because some dark forces are behind the scenes preventing us from living in utopia its only like that because thats how world works
And we are experiencing exactly same crap with alerts and nightwave rewards

I really dont care what i get as an reward im MR30 i dont get from this game anything i need or want
I only see missions i would want to do while it would me give some reward i dont care about
I could go to idk interception or defense or maybe even defection
But for the love of god not retarded 5 perfect animal captures
Not to capture all 3 eidolons or profit taker or exploiter orb or anything else stupid enough that dont feel like mission to be made but as time waster so you got bussy
Go deploy glyph in the toilet or something
I like profit taker i can solo it without a problem but when its locked from many players behind quest with RNG my god how fun is that to see it as mission you should make and being unable to do so?
Exact same thing can be said about exploiter and eidolons
And that animal captures well not all of ass go to sleep with fluffs next to our pillow

I just fail to see how nightwave is better than alerts could be or was in any way

You basically said the same thing I did. Just in a more roundabout, metaphorical way. The world of Warframe itself is flawed, so any system within that world will also inevitably be flawed. The best we can ever hope for is some way to minimize the flaws, and maximize the strengths of any systems within it.

Neither Alerts nor Nightwave is perfect, and they never will be. They both have their own strengths and flaws. But that's really the problem. Nightwave was supposed to fix Alerts, but it didn't. DE just replaced one flawed system with another. They didn't actually improve anything, they just made it different. The only reason Nightwave seems better to anyone is that it does a better job of covering up its flaws than Alerts did.

As far as I can tell, the main people that hated Alerts, and love Nightwave, are the ones that had gotten almost everything they wanted from Alerts. This is why they felt forced to wake up at crazy times to get the last few items they didn't have. And, they like Nightwave more, because each new season brings an entire new set of items to grind for. And, you know exactly how to get them, instead of having to get lucky. So the fact that you actually get much less stuff for more work doesn't matter to them. Because all they really care about is how many shiny new toys they can get.

Every time I have tried to get anyone to actually tell me why they like Nightwave, they barely ever actually have anything good to say about it. Its usually just something subjective, like liking the items better. The only objective thing anyone ever says is that it encourages people to try parts of the game they wouldn't usually. But that's BS, for two reasons: One - This shouldn't be necessary at all. If a part of the game is well designed, and fun to play, you shouldn't need any extra incentive beyond that to play it. And, two - All parts of the game that have associated Nightwave challenges already have their own built in rewards. So why do you need more items beyond what is already being offered? The only reason would be if you already played it enough to get the original items, and now want even more items to do it again. Which just seems greedy.

Basically, it just boils down to Nightwave being a form of bribery. It tries to bribe us into going back to the same old stuff we have already played, and keep playing it. Even if we don't actually enjoy it.

Just like all super grindy games, all Nightwave does is add a fake sense of importance to the rewards. Because it takes so much time, and so much effort to get to them, they must be really valuable, right? But that value is really just an illusion. If you take away that work, by, say, putting the rank 30 reward from the current season at rank 5 in the next Intermission, then people get pissed. Because you have apparently devalued the item they worked so hard to get, simply by making it easier to get. Nothing about the actual item has changed, just the acquisition method. So is it really less valuable?

This is why these same people don't want Alerts to come back. Its specifically because Alerts would make getting things easier. And that would also make them less valuable in the eyes of the people willing to grind through Nightwave to get them.

[ZeroX4]

46 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

You basically said the same thing I did. Just in a more roundabout, metaphorical way. The world of Warframe itself is flawed, so any system within that world will also inevitably be flawed. The best we can ever hope for is some way to minimize the flaws, and maximize the strengths of any systems within it.

Neither Alerts nor Nightwave is perfect, and they never will be. They both have their own strengths and flaws. But that's really the problem. Nightwave was supposed to fix Alerts, but it didn't. DE just replaced one flawed system with another. They didn't actually improve anything, they just made it different. The only reason Nightwave seems better to anyone is that it does a better job of covering up its flaws than Alerts did.

As far as I can tell, the main people that hated Alerts, and love Nightwave, are the ones that had gotten almost everything they wanted from Alerts. This is why they felt forced to wake up at crazy times to get the last few items they didn't have. And, they like Nightwave more, because each new season brings an entire new set of items to grind for. And, you know exactly how to get them, instead of having to get lucky. So the fact that you actually get much less stuff for more work doesn't matter to them. Because all they really care about is how many shiny new toys they can get.

Every time I have tried to get anyone to actually tell me why they like Nightwave, they barely ever actually have anything good to say about it. Its usually just something subjective, like liking the items better. The only objective thing anyone ever says is that it encourages people to try parts of the game they wouldn't usually. But that's BS, for two reasons: One - This shouldn't be necessary at all. If a part of the game is well designed, and fun to play, you shouldn't need any extra incentive beyond that to play it. And, two - All parts of the game that have associated Nightwave challenges already have their own built in rewards. So why do you need more items beyond what is already being offered? The only reason would be if you already played it enough to get the original items, and now want even more items to do it again. Which just seems greedy.

Basically, it just boils down to Nightwave being a form of bribery. It tries to bribe us into going back to the same old stuff we have already played, and keep playing it. Even if we don't actually enjoy it.

Just like all super grindy games, all Nightwave does is add a fake sense of importance to the rewards. Because it takes so much time, and so much effort to get to them, they must be really valuable, right? But that value is really just an illusion. If you take away that work, by, say, putting the rank 30 reward from the current season at rank 5 in the next Intermission, then people get pissed. Because you have apparently devalued the item they worked so hard to get, simply by making it easier to get. Nothing about the actual item has changed, just the acquisition method. So is it really less valuable?

This is why these same people don't want Alerts to come back. Its specifically because Alerts would make getting things easier. And that would also make them less valuable in the eyes of the people willing to grind through Nightwave to get them.

Actually i would wish for is
1 - Keep nightwave tier/rank (or whatever they are called) rewards (the ones where you get cosmetics umbral forma etc)
2 - Remove creed offerings and creed themselves
3 - Instead of us buying stuff for creeds lets make them back into rewards from alerts with extended time alerts
4 - Where we do normal missions and not 5 perfect animal captures or whatever
5 - Then more alerts you do higher tier/rank u get and get stuff from point 1

And then in my eyes we would have best out of both worlds
Dont want to do defection which would reward you with another Steel Charge but still want to rank up? Go do rescue for 50 endo and still rank up

But other than that i need to admit reading ur crap is exactly more or less same crap i have in my head
Its a shame ppl can say NO alerts just to say NO to them without any valid argument for nightwave to exist

And this is exactly how ppl defend night wave over alerts

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 1/22/2021 at 9:07 AM, Teljaxx said:

This is a big problem that both Alerts and Nightwave have. They basically wear out over time. They are really only fully functional when the player in question still needs or wants everything they offer. The less stuff you want from them, the less enticing they are, and the longer you have to wait for a non-junk reward. And since the whole point of them is to entice people to keep logging in, and keep playing, that's not good.

This is because both systems rely primarily on extrinsic rewards, and not intrinsic, as their motivation. They offer very little in the way of extra fun while you are playing, and really only offer an end goal. Something you get after you're done playing, and not while your playing. Because what do Alerts or Nightwave challenges offer in terms of gameplay that you can't simply do elsewhere? The only reason to do them at all is if you want the items they currently offer. So if you don't want that item, then why bother? And if you don't want any of the items, then why bother doing any of it at all?

Problem is that you're "looking for" intrinsic rewards, but not recognizing them when they are presented. 

A major complaint we see is, "there's nothing to do". Nightwave gives us something to do. That's an intrinsic reward. 

Another is that there's no reason to do certain activities once we've farmed the rewards. By having rewards that people want at the higher tiers, we are encouraged to go back to that content that we completed long ago. Again an intrinsic reward. 

Another is that there's nothing new in the game, but often people also actively avoided certain parts of the game. That's not a bad thing per se, but it locks us out of content, and in many cases the content isn't as bad as we thought it would be. Nightwave was intended to try to get us to step outside of the ruts we made for ourselves, and I can speak from personal experience that it did convince me to try stuff I'd just bypassed. Those new experiences, making us grow as players, are an intrinsic reward. 

Saying that we are asked to do things that aren't fun, is weird. Why do you think that it's not fun? I suspect that for many people who claim that, it's because of a lack of immediate extrinsic reward. 

Alerts had that issue as well. That's why people just didn't bother to do most of them. That's an option for nightwave as well, just skip whatever you don't want to do. And it's fine to do that, I know I have skipped a lot of them. 

🤷‍♂️

[Dunkelheit]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb (PSN)guzmantt1977:

Problem is that you're "looking for" intrinsic rewards, but not recognizing them when they are presented. 

A major complaint we see is, "there's nothing to do". Nightwave gives us something to do. That's an intrinsic reward. 

Another is that there's no reason to do certain activities once we've farmed the rewards. By having rewards that people want at the higher tiers, we are encouraged to go back to that content that we completed long ago. Again an intrinsic reward. 

Another is that there's nothing new in the game, but often people also actively avoided certain parts of the game. That's not a bad thing per se, but it locks us out of content, and in many cases the content isn't as bad as we thought it would be. Nightwave was intended to try to get us to step outside of the ruts we made for ourselves, and I can speak from personal experience that it did convince me to try stuff I'd just bypassed. Those new experiences, making us grow as players, are an intrinsic reward. 

Saying that we are asked to do things that aren't fun, is weird. Why do you think that it's not fun? I suspect that for many people who claim that, it's because of a lack of immediate extrinsic reward. 

Alerts had that issue as well. That's why people just didn't bother to do most of them. That's an option for nightwave as well, just skip whatever you don't want to do. And it's fine to do that, I know I have skipped a lot of them. 

🤷‍♂️

I like what you wrote: I was basically "forced" to use the K-Drives and the races, because of the MR behind it. Turns out, it is really fun. It is not the main attraction of Warframe, it is not absolutely amazing, but I really have fun grinding the boards.

Same goes for Necramechs, I did not like them, was "forced" to play them and had a great time. No, I don't like them more than the Warframes, but piloting a big, slow mech with loads of firepower is just crazy fun.

And I absolutely appreciate that from time to time, we get to do other things than running tight corridors with our Warframes.

One other thing and I need to be honest and don't really know how to sugar coat this: From some rants here in the forums you can easily read that the poster has not touched the subject. It is like trying to test a new meal or taste and already knowing, before it is in your mouth and you can actually taste it, that you will dislike it. Because most of the concerns are quite often solved by researching the subect a bit more.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, Dunkelheit said:

I like what you wrote: I was basically "forced" to use the K-Drives and the races, because of the MR behind it. Turns out, it is really fun. It is not the main attraction of Warframe, it is not absolutely amazing, but I really have fun grinding the boards.

Same goes for Necramechs, I did not like them, was "forced" to play them and had a great time. No, I don't like them more than the Warframes, but piloting a big, slow mech with loads of firepower is just crazy fun.

And I absolutely appreciate that from time to time, we get to do other things than running tight corridors with our Warframes.

One other thing and I need to be honest and don't really know how to sugar coat this: From some rants here in the forums you can easily read that the poster has not touched the subject. It is like trying to test a new meal or taste and already knowing, before it is in your mouth and you can actually taste it, that you will dislike it. Because most of the concerns are quite often solved by researching the subect a bit more.

Conservation, for me. I thought that sound cues and tone matching would be a big part of it. That stuff turns me off so much I never really even looked into it, after failing the first time in OV. I also come from a place where hunting with a gun is almost totally alien to us (but fishing happens a lot, so I never had an issue with it as an activity). 

After nightwave, I wanted to figure out how to get it done, and got some good advice here on the forums. It turned out to be a lot better than I had thought. I still don't go out of my way to tranq animals, but I grew as a player when I learned how to get it done. And I'm cool with that. 

NightWave takes us out of our comfort zones and gets us to try other content. If we still don't like it after giving it a good try, that's fine. We won't need those points to get all the rewards anyway. 

[(PSN)FK2P]

The reason nightwave was encorperated into the starchart rather than alerts providing special lobbies on top of startchart missions was to bring players back to provide backup for new players. You’ll notice most of the objectives in nightwave bring you back to areas of the game like the profit taker, and specific mission types.

[ZeroX4]

57 minutes ago, (PSN)FK2P said:

The reason nightwave was encorperated into the starchart rather than alerts providing special lobbies on top of startchart missions was to bring players back to provide backup for new players. You’ll notice most of the objectives in nightwave bring you back to areas of the game like the profit taker, and specific mission types.

And so you see
A) Players who cant do it because they are not max rank at vox solaris or still try to farm atmo or gravimag systems
B) Players who cant solo it are looking for group and spam recruit chat for hours because either players who can do it go without them or they found groups of players same as them who are unprepared 

Yeah nightwave forces us to try new stuff but if we still dont like that stuff we are still feel forced to do it not 
Imagine having nightwave rewards behind PVP

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

12 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

Yeah nightwave forces us to try new stuff but if we still dont like that stuff we are still feel forced to do it not 
Imagine having nightwave rewards behind PVP

No, we're not. Because we can pick which challenges to do, and even how and when to do most of them. 

Pretending that we don't have personal agency, or that we are forced to do all challenges, is just wrong. 

I've skipped challenges since Nightwave became a thing, and gotten EVERY unique tiered reward for each season/intermission. There's nothing forcing us to do what we don't want to do other than the FOMO some people seem to insist on creating for themselves. Before nightwave even released we were told that we didn't need to do everything to get the rewards. We have people who not only hit tier 30, but also max out the prestige ranks as well. So how are you claiming to be forced to do anything? 

[ZeroX4]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

No, we're not. Because we can pick which challenges to do, and even how and when to do most of them. 

Pretending that we don't have personal agency, or that we are forced to do all challenges, is just wrong. 

I've skipped challenges since Nightwave became a thing, and gotten EVERY unique tiered reward for each season/intermission. There's nothing forcing us to do what we don't want to do other than the FOMO some people seem to insist on creating for themselves. Before nightwave even released we were told that we didn't need to do everything to get the rewards. We have people who not only hit tier 30, but also max out the prestige ranks as well. So how are you claiming to be forced to do anything? 

I would read everything u wrote but than i looked at ur post count and figured ur not a new player here
Lets come back to this conversation after u get again to MR5 trying to gather nitains potatoes and auras for urself and see how ur arguments change then
And until it happens dont say "we are not forced"  maybe you are no forced but dont speak for others
And please explain to new players that want to build something that require nitains are not forced to anything on nightwave

And just in case you would care to bring argument like "no1 is forced to build anything that require nitains" it is kinda same logic as if i say no 1 is forced to put blocks in tetris in a way that would clear any line

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

I would read everything u wrote but than i looked at ur post count and figured ur not a new player here
Lets come back to this conversation after u get again to MR5 trying to gather nitains potatoes and auras for urself and see how ur arguments change then
And until it happens dont say "we are not forced"  maybe you are no forced but dont speak for others
And please explain to new players that want to build something that require nitains are not forced to anything on nightwave

And just in case you would care to bring argument like "no1 is forced to build anything that require nitains" it is kinda same logic as if i say no 1 is forced to put blocks in tetris in a way that would clear any line

It's easier to get Nitain now than it was before. And potatoes from alerts were rarer than Rooster teeth, in my experience. Maybe come back to the discussion when you actually know what you are talking about? 

And hint, sometimes leaving a gap in the line, is a good strategy, because intelligent creatures can often formulate plans for future events. But sure, you go ahead and try to complete your lines without any planning. Could explain why you seem to be one of those people who think that you need to get all of the Nitain, right away, otherwise the game is totally unplayable. 🙄

But hey, thanks for confirming that warframe isn't the only game where you don't have a clue. 👍

[ZeroX4]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

It's easier to get Nitain now than it was before. And potatoes from alerts were rarer than Rooster teeth, in my experience. Maybe come back to the discussion when you actually know what you are talking about? 

And hint, sometimes leaving a gap in the line, is a good strategy, because intelligent creatures can often formulate plans for future events. But sure, you go ahead and try to complete your lines without any planning. Could explain why you seem to be one of those people who think that you need to get all of the Nitain, right away, otherwise the game is totally unplayable. 🙄

But hey, thanks for confirming that warframe isn't the only game where you don't have a clue. 👍

i never needed nitains from NW my journey with nitains ended way before NW even was mentioned
Screenshot just for you at the bottom

You really dont get the problem here? Its not about you or me we both play long enough that we can manage
Its about newer players i dont even do nightwave since like 7 months it have nothing i could need or want
But u know what? If you would be mr5 and each time you enter creed offerings list and stand in front of choice
Do i want to be able to craft new stuff and get some exp to rank up
Or do i want to be able to double capacity of X item which i gonna use so my experience would be better
Just maybe and just then you would understand that its cool and all when we can choose rewards (you and me)
But not new players or lower MR players as u like
But u wont understand it as u look at it from above when you dont need to buy anything u just CAN

Thats why when you start new acc and be MR5 we can have serious discussion with solids arguments on how ur views on the matter changed
Until that time i wish u best luck and bid you farewell since you believe problem does not exists if it dont affect u at ur current state

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

9 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

i never needed nitains from NW my journey with nitains ended way before NW even was mentioned
Screenshot just for you at the bottom

You really dont get the problem here? Its not about you or me we both play long enough that we can manage
Its about newer players i dont even do nightwave since like 7 months it have nothing i could need or want
But u know what? If you would be mr5 and each time you enter creed offerings list and stand in front of choice
Do i want to be able to craft new stuff and get some exp to rank up
Or do i want to be able to double capacity of X item which i gonna use so my experience would be better
Just maybe and just then you would understand that its cool and all when we can choose rewards (you and me)
But not new players or lower MR players as u like
But u wont understand it as u look at it from above when you dont need to buy anything u just CAN

Thats why when you start new acc and be MR5 we can have serious discussion with solids arguments on how ur views on the matter changed
Until that time i wish u best luck and bid you farewell since you believe problem does not exists if it dont affect u at ur current state

"B-b-but what about the MR 5'S? 😫 "

Let's quote what I said already:

9 hours ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

It's easier to get Nitain now than it was before.

It's the very first sentence in the post you responded to. 

And having to choose what you want to do with the limited resources you have, is something newbies have always faced, both in the game and in the real world. Pretending that people don't have the capacity to make such choices, is just silly of you. 

And again, the current system gives us that choice. For me at that rank the choice was wait two weeks for the Gift from the Lotus missions, or spend money. And if I got really lucky, I MIGHT have been able to get 2 nitain on days that I played, if the node was open, or I could choose to try to abandon my other real life responsibilities and stare at my phone for alerts the whole time. Newbies don't have to do that anymore. They can do a lot of the challenges on the starter planet, whenever suits them. 

So again, you want to demand the return of a system that sucked, because you don't know what you are talking about. 

When you get a clue, maybe you will have something worth reading. 

[ZeroX4]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

"B-b-but what about the MR 5'S? 😫 "

Let's quote what I said already:

It's the very first sentence in the post you responded to. 

And having to choose what you want to do with the limited resources you have, is something newbies have always faced, both in the game and in the real world. Pretending that people don't have the capacity to make such choices, is just silly of you. 

And again, the current system gives us that choice. For me at that rank the choice was wait two weeks for the Gift from the Lotus missions, or spend money. And if I got really lucky, I MIGHT have been able to get 2 nitain on days that I played, if the node was open, or I could choose to try to abandon my other real life responsibilities and stare at my phone for alerts the whole time. Newbies don't have to do that anymore. They can do a lot of the challenges on the starter planet, whenever suits them. 

So again, you want to demand the return of a system that sucked, because you don't know what you are talking about. 

When you get a clue, maybe you will have something worth reading. 

No u didnt understand and thats why i say lets have an conversation on the matter when u will be again mr5

I admit you are 100% right its easier to get nitains BUT only if you go farm creeds and buy only nitains
While with alerts you just did 1 missions and puff here u go
On top of that having IDK lets say 50 plat per month and facing a choice either buy primed part you need or weapon/warframe slot is not a big choice but only an mechanizm to slow you down in ur progress
What good is it if you have choice between 2 while you cant progress without both of them
Same goes with choice in creed offerings
I would just shut up and not argue if nitains would be reward from something like idk nightwave rank rewards
But at current state its choice between like "ok what we gonna do this week pay our bills and have electricity and be able to watch tv but be hungry or buy something to eat and sit 24/7 in the dark "

You wont understand the problem here until u will face it as low MR player with almost nothing

Try to understand 2 things here
1 - I dont do nightwave there is nothing i could want or need from it but im not against it i just believe it could be better system supplemented with alerts
2 - I dont opt in for removing nightwave i just believe option for it to coexist with alerts would be better experience for us all if duration of important alerts with nitains for example would be extended

No1 should be facing a choice at the begging between buy nitain or potatoes from nightwave 
Thats my problem with nightwave well along with the fact i dont like to do task instead of missions i would be more happy to do defense rather than 5 perfect animal captures

So dont try to prove me anything that is obvious and try to understand that for some ppl nightwave can be not so ideal solution as to u

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

24 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

No u didnt understand and thats why i say lets have an conversation on the matter when u will be again mr5

I understood perfectly. You just don't know what what you are talking about. 

24 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

I admit you are 100% right its easier to get nitains BUT only if you go farm creeds and buy only nitains
While with alerts you just did 1 missions and puff here u go
On top of that having IDK lets say 50 plat per month and facing a choice either buy primed part you need or weapon/warframe slot is not a big choice but only an mechanizm to slow you down in ur progress
What good is it if you have choice between 2 while you cant progress without both of them
Same goes with choice in creed offerings

Hint you can farm or trade for parts. It's how many people play the game. You only need to trade if you can't farm for them. And you can sell prime junk for plat. So your false dichotomy, just indicates a further example of not knowing what you are talking. 

24 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

I would just shut up and not argue if nitains would be reward from something like idk nightwave rank rewards

Hint, there's a screenshot you posted not too many posts before this one, to show why that's a silly idea you're proposing. 

24 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

But at current state its choice between like "ok what we gonna do this week pay our bills and have electricity and be able to watch tv but be hungry or buy something to eat and sit 24/7 in the dark "

That was always the case. Literally. Unlimited wants and needs, but limited resources with which to fulfill them. It's why most intelligent creatures learn to make choices. 

24 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

You wont understand the problem here until u will face it as low MR player with almost nothing

Are you saying that's why you don't know what you are talking about? Because that would explain it. 

24 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

Try to understand 2 things here
1 - I dont do nightwave there is nothing i could want or need from it but im not against it i just believe it could be better system supplemented with alerts
2 - I dont opt in for removing nightwave i just believe option for it to coexist with alerts would be better experience for us all if duration of important alerts with nitains for example would be extended

Try to understand 2 things here:

1) it doesn't really matter what you do or don't partake of. 

2) admitting that you don't participate in the nightwave system, strongly suggests that you therefore have no first-hand experience with which you can make sensible comments on it. 

24 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

No1 should be facing a choice at the begging between buy nitain or potatoes from nightwave 
Thats my problem with nightwave well along with the fact i dont like to do task instead of missions i would be more happy to do defense rather than 5 perfect animal captures

So you want to go back to the days when newbies just basically never got potatoes outside of one per fortnight? Because that's what we had when we didn't get to choose. 

24 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

So dont try to prove me anything that is obvious and try to understand that for some ppl nightwave can be not so ideal solution as to u

And alerts were many times worse. So again, no. 

[ZeroX4]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

I understood perfectly. You just don't know what what you are talking about. 

Hint you can farm or trade for parts. It's how many people play the game. You only need to trade if you can't farm for them. And you can sell prime junk for plat. So your false dichotomy, just indicates a further example of not knowing what you are talking. 

Hint, there's a screenshot you posted not too many posts before this one, to show why that's a silly idea you're proposing. 

That was always the case. Literally. Unlimited wants and needs, but limited resources with which to fulfill them. It's why most intelligent creatures learn to make choices. 

Are you saying that's why you don't know what you are talking about? Because that would explain it. 

Try to understand 2 things here:

1) it doesn't really matter what you do or don't partake of. 

2) admitting that you don't participate in the nightwave system, strongly suggests that you therefore have no first-hand experience with which you can make sensible comments on it. 

So you want to go back to the days when newbies just basically never got potatoes outside of one per fortnight? Because that's what we had when we didn't get to choose. 

And alerts were many times worse. So again, no. 

Nah you surely dont and the fact you are advocating for nightwave here is just because u play long enough to be able to get stuff other than nitains with other means

New players dont have bags of plat and often cant do some nightwave tasks because they are locked behind content they didnt reach yet

Thats screenshots represents nitain leftovers i still got from days when alerts were here

I do understand choice between mods like having more raw damage or more attack speed
But choice between i only can buy that 1 thing until many many months later when i will be able to afford to buy something else when i wont need that 1 thing anymore

Yeah u solved the case i am to unexperienced to know what im talking about but cool u know better

So lets again give u a chance to understand 2 things
1 - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't partake of. Other ppl may find something u like frustrating and vice-versa so dont think you are the only one here who know what is the best for everyone
2 - I dont need to use tampons to know their value as utility

And here is prime example which proves which of us dont know what is talking about
Again and again let me repeat NOT LIKE OLD ALERTS with short duration of important items like nitains for example
But better version of them where duration is longer there are more of them and its easier to acquire them i dont see 20 a week?
I say just at better rate
And the fact you still think im all in for bringing back old alerts just proves how much competent u are on contributing anything valuable to the topic
Alerts could be so much better system in conjunction with nightwave just because ur ok with nightwave as it is does not mean we could not have something better
There is so much space for improvements but for some reason ppl like would say no just to say no because you feel others should play like you because you want it

And what is with that "NO" on the end?
I dont remember any1 asking for your permission on the matter?
I sure didnt? So what your "NO" changes other than ur ego?




 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

Nah you surely dont and the fact you are advocating for nightwave here is just because u play long enough to be able to get stuff other than nitains with other means

New players dont have bags of plat and often cant do some nightwave tasks because they are locked behind content they didnt reach yet

Thats screenshots represents nitain leftovers i still got from days when alerts were here

 

 

Wow you're slow. I can guess why I had you on ignore. 

 

Hint: You don't need to do the elite challenges to get all of the rewards from the tiers. 

2 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

I do understand choice between mods like having more raw damage or more attack speed
But choice between i only can buy that 1 thing until many many months later when i will be able to afford to buy something else when i wont need that 1 thing anymore

Maybe find someone to explain how "opportunity cost" works. 

2 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

Yeah u solved the case i am to unexperienced to know what im talking about but cool u know better

This part is true. 

2 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

So lets again give u a chance to understand 2 things
1 - it doesn't really matter what you do or don't partake of. Other ppl may find something u like frustrating and vice-versa so dont think you are the only one here who know what is the best for everyone
2 - I dont need to use tampons to know their value as utility

Number 1 definitely applies to you. 

Number 2 probably does as well. 

2 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

And here is prime example which proves which of us dont know what is talking about

Again and again let me repeat NOT LIKE OLD ALERTS with short duration of important items like nitains for example
But better version of them where duration is longer there are more of them and its easier to acquire them i dont see 20 a week?
I say just at better rate
And the fact you still think im all in for bringing back old alerts just proves how much competent u are on contributing anything valuable to the topic
Alerts could be so much better system in conjunction with nightwave just because ur ok with nightwave as it is does not mean we could not have something better
There is so much space for improvements but for some reason ppl like would say no just to say no because you feel others should play like you because you want it

Hint: You're suggesting that they implement a system to give us what nightwave gives us. 

Think next time. 

2 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

And what is with that "NO" on the end?
I dont remember any1 asking for your permission on the matter?
I sure didnt? So what your "NO" changes other than ur ego?

Oh? Well then since you don't need anyone to be on board with your schemes, how about you go ahead and implement them without anyone else having to do any of the work for you. 

What's that? You can't because you have neither community, nor developer support? 

Then if you can't stand the idea that people can disagree with you, might I suggest that you have someone burst your bubble and explain why people are allowed to disagree with, and dismiss poorly thought out proposals? 

Won't be me because you're going back on the ignore list. 

[ZeroX4]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

 

Wow you're slow. I can guess why I had you on ignore. 

 

Hint: You don't need to do the elite challenges to get all of the rewards from the tiers. 

Maybe find someone to explain how "opportunity cost" works. 

This part is true. 

Number 1 definitely applies to you. 

Number 2 probably does as well. 

Hint: You're suggesting that they implement a system to give us what nightwave gives us. 

Think next time. 

Oh? Well then since you don't need anyone to be on board with your schemes, how about you go ahead and implement them without anyone else having to do any of the work for you. 

What's that? You can't because you have neither community, nor developer support? 

Then if you can't stand the idea that people can disagree with you, might I suggest that you have someone burst your bubble and explain why people are allowed to disagree with, and dismiss poorly thought out proposals? 

Won't be me because you're going back on the ignore list. 

Your kidding right?
We talk here about getting nitains and potatoes and u bring ranked rewards as argument? (which in case u didnt know are obtained just by doing nighwave and not by spending creeds)

I try to explain to you its about different way of distributing rewards but u seem fail to understand the difference

Number 1 i dont do stuff i dont like so nothing here is in my way but seems something being in your way when you try to fight alerts with such passion
Number 2 you didnt even get the joke i believe that speaks for itself about ur level of incompetence here

I am more than fine if someone have different opinion than me
Difference here is you say as i came here for ur blessing on the matter or something

Im happy u run out of arguments and we can give up on trying to teach u something
Have fun ;)


 

[Voltage]

Nightwave could easily work without bringing back alerts. Just stop adding Lore to it, and make it scheduled and systematic with no need for Devs to intervene aside from adding rewards to the shop. Make challenges directly reward Creds and remove ranks.