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Orphix Venom: Hotfix 29.6.3


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Il y a 1 heure, AdrenSnyder a dit :

is a bad farming mission anyway.

No. Sorry, but no. It is roughly 10 times better than eidolon, so it cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be called "a bad farming mission". And you get to chose exactly what arcane you want. And you can do it anytime.

It is an insanely good farming mission. Also you can use it to level both of your mechs (get those formas in) and any gear you want really, during the downtime, the affinity gain is pretty good especially with the ongoing bonus.

 

As for your prepared group, that's the best way to go imo. We weren't good either at the beginning, but just experiment, see how things work, think about what can you improve.

If you stop thinking about phasic cells and instead focus on ways to consistently reach orphix 36, you'll have plenty cells by the time you get there, without even knowing it :)

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"If you stop thinking about phasic cells and instead focus on ways to consistently reach orphix 36, you'll have plenty cells by the time you get there, without even knowing it :)"

Like everyone can do that... you obviously missed the point.  The new event is trash just like the cost of the Arcanes.  PuGs only go so far and want to bail and going Solo or Duo doesn't work all the time.

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45 minutes ago, No_Recoil said:

"If you stop thinking about phasic cells and instead focus on ways to consistently reach orphix 36, you'll have plenty cells by the time you get there, without even knowing it :)"

Like everyone can do that... you obviously missed the point.  The new event is trash just like the cost of the Arcanes.  PuGs only go so far and want to bail and going Solo or Duo doesn't work all the time.

I don't think you should try logic.  The poster you are quoting is incapable of anything but comparison of existing systems, which means they cannot actively define good.  They are actively comparing terrible and bad, then defining the improvement as good.

 

Instead, let's let this burn out.  Apparently this is another case of someone who cannot imagine a grind that is rewarding.  By this I mean one where there is a defined end, but the ability to continue.  One where the end state is a comparable increase in power to time investment, rather than a roll of the dice or literally face melting grind of a mission that is team balanced, and effectively penalizes players.  Penalties including lost affinity, bugs, and simply being unable to engage because public groups don't run for an hour.

 

All of this said, I understand the failure here.  Instead of good, we're looking at comparatively good.  As there's no engagement with that truth, there will be no coming to an understanding.

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We are comparing to what exist, not to some fictional fantasy.

Whether Eidilons are bad or not is the point; it's what we currently have and Orphrix is far better than what we have.
DE has not made a hint of a suggestion they are ever going to change Eidilons.

Could this better? Absolutely! I would welcome it all honesty. But then again I farmed everything, but arcanes from it.

Edited by CouncilofTheSeven
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1 hour ago, CouncilofTheSeven said:

We are comparing to what exist, not to some fictional fantasy.

Whether Eidilons are bad or not is the point; it's what we currently have and Orphrix is far better than what we have.
DE has not made a hint of a suggestion they are ever going to change Eidilons.

Could this better? Absolutely! I would welcome it all honesty. But then again I farmed everything, but arcanes from it.

Please, read.

 

Let me short this.  You say that this is good.  It is not, by the above admission.  Full stop.  What you mean to say is that it is good by comparison, and that is not the same as good.

 

Now, we've spent pages where you (not personally, the disambiguous representative of the side saying it is good) argue that low but consistent rewards are better than RNG.  That's not inherently consistent with good, only better in your opinion.

 

Others are defining good as the lack of bad...which both of these activities lack.  BECAUSE OF THIS FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE, YOU CANNOT AGREE.  

 

Let me repeat, good and good compared to are not the same.  Hopefully this is clear....but after explaining this as often as I have it's unlikely.  Please, understand.  I say that logic is broken because the base assumptions cannot be reconciled, and some people are not willing to stop and outline them.  I can understand preferring constant rewards and choice, over RNG.  That does not make Orphix Venom good, only less bad.

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Il y a 8 heures, No_Recoil a dit :

Like everyone can do that...

Well, yes ? Pretty sure everyone can sit for a minute and think about what they can do to improve their runs. There are so many variables, so many things you can change in this game. Look around (youtube), ask around. I'd also use recruit channel if you want a 36 run, pubs are... pubs.

Because if you cannot even finish the mission then it's maybe a bit early to think about farming it, no?

Stop tunneling vision the cells and try to improve, so as to beat the mission first, and then get better score. You'll get plenty cells (and lavos and cedo parts, and mods - meaning more cells for arcanes) while doing it, too. That was my point.

 

Besides, if you cannot currently finish this operation, then I'd imagine you cannot do much to eidolons, making this event even better for you as it provides you with a direct access to all the best arcanes in the game, in very generous amount.

 

PS : Ok, sorry for doing this but I got curious. Your voidrig is level 22, you have 3 kills with it. Come on man, what are we talking about here.

3 kills. Operation is trash. What the hell.

Edited by Yank31
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9 hours ago, Yank31 said:

No. Sorry, but no. It is roughly 10 times better than eidolon, so it cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be called "a bad farming mission". And you get to chose exactly what arcane you want. And you can do it anytime.

It is an insanely good farming mission. Also you can use it to level both of your mechs (get those formas in) and any gear you want really, during the downtime, the affinity gain is pretty good especially with the ongoing bonus.

 

As for your prepared group, that's the best way to go imo. We weren't good either at the beginning, but just experiment, see how things work, think about what can you improve.

If you stop thinking about phasic cells and instead focus on ways to consistently reach orphix 36, you'll have plenty cells by the time you get there, without even knowing it :)

Stop comparing this event to Eidolons. Just because Eidolons also drop arcanes does not make this a fair comparison. The fact that arcane prices tanked due to Scarlet Spear is true and fair, but that point is completely moot, because you can't turn this back anyway. It is what it is. 

So the only fair comparison is comparing this event to the event it is supposed to replace (Scarlet Spear), by DE's own admission. It's a temporary event, it's supposed to be rewarding while it lasts. Taking this into account, the fact is that this event is over 3 times less profitable than Scarlet Spear. This makes it objectively much much worse. Definitely considering there is a hard cap to the rewards you can get (max score, max amount of Orphixes, etc..) 

So yes, it is a very unrewarding event. Fact. 

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il y a 12 minutes, No0n0 a dit :

Stop comparing this event to Eidolons. Just because Eidolons also drop arcanes does not make this a fair comparison. The fact that arcane prices tanked due to Scarlet Spear is true and fair, but that point is completely moot, because you can't turn this back anyway. It is what it is. 

So the only fair comparison is comparing this event to the event it is supposed to replace (Scarlet Spear), by DE's own admission. It's a temporary event, it's supposed to be rewarding while it lasts. Taking this into account, the fact is that this event is over 3 times less profitable than Scarlet Spear. This makes it objectively much much worse. Definitely considering there is a hard cap to the rewards you can get (max score, max amount of Orphixes, etc..) 

So yes, it is a very unrewarding event. Fact. 

Disagree.

People arguing about rewards, meaning arcanes, here. And eidolons are the only other way to get those arcanes, at current. So the comparaison is, sound, imo.

Price tanking is not moot at all, because it is what will happen, again, if DE "buffs" the phasic cell drop. That's the whole stance, actually, please do not do that, as we saw what happened when you did it in the past. This event managed to somewhat retain some balance in that matter, which is an achievement, imo.

This event beats regular means to obtain arcane by 10. You can even chose your arcane. And run it any time of the day. No focus farm required, no operator, no amp, no "pgm eidolon" knowledge.

Instead you get to pew pew in regular tiles with the big boy mechs, which is amazing in itself.

That is, imo, very rewarding, and very "event worthy".

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Lavos: The Good & The Bad.

Good
- Lavos looks fantastic, so much so that I can't even bring myself to put attachments over his awesome little baubles.
- Lavos is dynamic and interesting.  It's nice to have a frame that can "adapt" to whatever threat is thrown at them and actually has engaging and mindful gameplay.
- Leech eximus are no longer the bane of my existence!  F@#% them.
- Lavos potentially can scale very well.

Bad
- Lavos' cooldowns are awkward.  Namely Catalyze's cooldown is FAR too long compared to not only the other cooldowns in his kit, the cooldown reduction received from Transmutation Probe (will talk more on that), but also the actual current value gotten from this ability for its required setup.
- Transmutation Probe offers extremely minimal returns as far as cooldown reduction.  I understand its meant to aim it for a "group" but the fact of the matter is that this frame has no inherent grouping mechanic, so unless we're meant to be entirely reliant on using other gear (which opens up the anti-build diversity can of worms) we're literally just hoping that RNG allows the enemies to group up enough to see an even noticeable dent in our cooldowns.
- Ability durations.  While Vial Rush leaves a rather long lasting trail, for some reason both Transmutation Probe and Catalyze are gone almost instantaneously, further reducing any kind of benefit that could be gained from them.  Transmutation Probe might not even be as bad as it currently is if the range were extended and it were made more of a stationary "checkpoint" similar to Xaku's abilities.
- Vial Rush suffers from the Tidal Surge/Zephyr problem.  We don't really want these abilities that are centered around launching our frame in a random direction when the main focus of the ability is meant to be some sort of CC or damage dealer.  Abilities like the previously mentioned more often than not just cause us to fling ourselves into some hole in the tileset or disorient ourselves entirely because we're launched way too far too fast and our target is now a mile away.
- Catalyze suffers from the V1 Gara problem.  Catalyze only really works if you're on an almost entirely flat tileset, otherwise the ability does absolutely nothing to enemies that are slightly above or below you, this is further compounded by the previously mentioned non-existent duration.
- Overall damage output/investment.  While Catalyze CAN do significant damage, it either requires an extra-infused cast of every single ability in his kit on each individual target, which is a nightmare for all the previously mentioned reasons, or it requires a "Conditon Overload" weapon to be paired with him at all times, which again opens up the anti-build diversity topic.

Proposed Fixes (Not necessarily all required together, but to address each problem individually)
- Increase Transmutation Probe's cooldown reduction ~3x.
- Increase duration of both Transmutation Probe & Catalyze SIGNIFICANTLY.
- Make Vial Rush "throw" vials forward for the full distance even if canceled early so that it can instead be quickly tapped twice to create the same line of effect or can still be tapped once and left alone to run the full duration to keep its mobility aspect.
- Make Catalyze an "orb" rather than a disc, or at the very least a wall that drops to the floor like Gara's Mass Vitrify (it is a drone emitting gas after all, unless it's lighter than air it stands to reason it would fall).
- Take the "damage doubled per element" aspect out of Catalyze specifically and instead add it into his passive so that all of his abilities become more effective the more he or his teammates spread elemental effects.  Could also potentially convert it so that instead of doubling per element it doubles per proc and lower the base damage to have a more gradual but overall higher scaling.

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On 2020-12-22 at 4:12 PM, I.V.A.R.A said:

Still no increase to time vs reward, that's really sad guys. 6 hours for one arcane is satisfactory? It's not. You're preventing the player interaction that you hope to obtain, because it's not worth playing. 

You take 6 hrs?! Dude it takes 30 minutes to get 1,000 cells which is 200 over the most expensive arcane.

You must be low lvl or doing something terribly wrong to spend hours.

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3 hours ago, No0n0 said:

Stop comparing this event to Eidolons. Just because Eidolons also drop arcanes does not make this a fair comparison. The fact that arcane prices tanked due to Scarlet Spear is true and fair, but that point is completely moot, because you can't turn this back anyway. It is what it is. 

So the only fair comparison is comparing this event to the event it is supposed to replace (Scarlet Spear), by DE's own admission. It's a temporary event, it's supposed to be rewarding while it lasts. Taking this into account, the fact is that this event is over 3 times less profitable than Scarlet Spear. This makes it objectively much much worse. Definitely considering there is a hard cap to the rewards you can get (max score, max amount of Orphixes, etc..) 

So yes, it is a very unrewarding event. Fact. 

It takes 30 minutes for me to get 1000 cells which is 200 over the highest cost of an arcane. You must be low lvl or doing something terribly wrong.

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All these people saying it takes them hours for one arcane, or saying the time in isn't worth the reward is either low lvl or doing something terribly wrong!

It takes me 30 minutes to get just over 1,000 cells which is 200 more than the highest ranking arcane you can buy!

Stop being so sour and appreciate the work out into the game you bitter people.

(A note, I played this before going out of town for Christmas, but I seriously doubt that they upped the cost of rewards)

Edited by Enigmose
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Ok so I've done my fair share of grind for this event. Upon researching how to get higher scores I find out that you actually have to farm the sentients spawning around the Orphix while trying to kill it as fast as possible. Isn't that abit counter intuitive to the actual goal of the mission? Also what happens to all those sentients that disappear or die when you do kill an Orphix? Aren't we supposed to at least get some points for those? I am forced to play solo mostly due to Strict Nat issues. Currently I can complete an Advanced Mission in 40min which gives me 733 Phasic Cells. Looking at Arcane Grace and Arcane Energize going for 800 Cells a pop and needing 21 to complete a set this is looking insane. 

Edit:

My last mission was 850 cells in 37min trying to actively kill some extra odds and end sentients floating around. Still insane and not motivating at all. 

Edited by Azrael_V
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14 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

Please, read.

 

Let me short this.  You say that this is good.  It is not, by the above admission.  Full stop.  What you mean to say is that it is good by comparison, and that is not the same as good.

 

Now, we've spent pages where you (not personally, the disambiguous representative of the side saying it is good) argue that low but consistent rewards are better than RNG.  That's not inherently consistent with good, only better in your opinion.

 

Others are defining good as the lack of bad...which both of these activities lack.  BECAUSE OF THIS FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE, YOU CANNOT AGREE.  

 

Let me repeat, good and good compared to are not the same.  Hopefully this is clear....but after explaining this as often as I have it's unlikely.  Please, understand.  I say that logic is broken because the base assumptions cannot be reconciled, and some people are not willing to stop and outline them.  I can understand preferring constant rewards and choice, over RNG.  That does not make Orphix Venom good, only less bad.

Now you're putting words in mouth and you claim you're using to use logic?

I never stated Orphrix was good, I said simply it's better than what we have. I even said it could be better. I have to ask did you read my post, or did you see just see I was using the word comparing and decided to respond?

People need to stop living in the past where Scarlet Spear existed, that event was broken in so many ways including the absurd reward to grind ratio.
Arcanes aren't supposed to easily gotten or quick prizes. They are something you have to work for, Heaven Forbid I don't get MY PRIZE RIGHT NOW!

I hate to say, but I feel it must be said. Don't play the event. The reason you play a game is to have fun and if it's not fun STOP! Seriously Stop. This doesn't just go for Warframe but any game. If it's not longer enjoyable and feels like a chore stop playing, I know it can be like an addiction and hard to stop but trust me when you do you will feel better.

Heck even just take a break take if you need to.  Also speak with your wallet, the feedback that matters the most is your wallet. If you don't the direction the game is going don't put money into, period. 

Edited by CouncilofTheSeven
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3 hours ago, Enigmose said:

All these people saying it takes them hours for one arcane, or saying the time in isn't worth the reward is either low lvl or doing something terribly wrong!

It takes me 30 minutes to get just over 1,000 cells which is 200 more than the highest ranking arcane you can buy!

Stop being so sour and appreciate the work out into the game you bitter people.

(A note, I played this before going out of town for Christmas, but I seriously doubt that they upped the cost of rewards)

They're referring to the cost to get a "complete" arcane, aka: 21 individual arcanes.  Having a base level arcane is usually pretty bad and arcanes only really become effective in their higher tiers.

Edited by Ceadeus
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So I admit I am in the boat of people who don't think the event is that great but allow me to explain my perspective.

In early dev streams, this wasn't advertised as a 30 day event. It came off more like an alert. My first response was, "Oh, okay... so its going to be a buggy mess of an alert. Short and painful. Got it. I don't see how that will actually help since DE needs to listen to players more about the bugs that come up when we will need to play it again and again and voice our findings but what ever."
I take a week break because school and I come back to DE announcing operation venom. Use necramechs and all that. Oh no warframes dont work. Must resort to Old War tech. So... its... a copy paste of the last event with the Orphix or what ever the sentient spawner thing is... except you are restricted to an operator and a mech. And for those who don't have a necramech (Now lets be honest there are a ton of you out there who didnt do the grind) you are stuck with a RENT A MECH YA- oh no.... it's actually garbage... there isnt even vitality.., there isnt even a rubedo barrel mod on the mausolon... wow... this is actually crap...
I played with pubs and then with a group. My group consisted of 2 others and well we had one guy in the process of making a mech and the other on his 3rd forma so we were okay till we hit round 16. That's when the guy in the rent a mech started doing no damage. Not even with guard mode on Voidrig. 2 rounds later and he was getting 2 shot in Voidrig. It simply was so unfun. 

Now the grind to get a necramech isn't bad, however it isn't exactly a short here and there. It is a pretty grindy endeavor. Mining, vaults, vaults, VAULTS, VAULTS, AND MORE VAULTS. You need the mods, you need the parts and then you gotta wait about 4 ish days to craft it since it takes as long as a warframe. That left a bad taste in my squad's mouth.

Now, in comparison, Operation Venom compared to Operation Scarlet Spear are basically the same event. However in terms of rewards they are not. I used to be able to walk away with many arcanes of the silver rarity and maybe 1 of the highest rarity. I need about 8 runs or more of Operation Venom to get a similar amount (not really a similar but I'm trying to be nice). In terms of time spent in the event, it is not worth it. You can counter and say, "Operation Scarlet Spear was time gated" but that mechanic was stupid so if you were busy like me, you ended getting the short end of the stick and either not playing or doing any other content. 
I'll be skipping over Operation Venom bugs because people have voiced those already but the reward to time spent in the mission not okay on any level. Feel free to have your own opinions, you are completely justified yours, I just wished to give my angle on all this not fun event stuff.

 

On another note about other bugs and stuff that needs actual fixing, I can only touch on so many things because now there is a sea of them

Just to start off there is:
Melee changes destroying Khora, Bonewidow, whips, and some other instances of just crappy hit registrations because "there was a wall"
Xaku ended in a pretty bad spot in he customer support service 
Lavos is really good at sitting there and looking pretty while waiting for his 4 that doesnt hit anything to come off a 4 second cool down. He also looks at bombards and wishes his scaling was actually decent. So now he waves at the Lv 80 bombards and heavy gunners and swiftly gets curve stomped by any infested ancient.

It might just be a me problem but running warframe makes my PC run extremely hard for some reason. It happened a while ago but I was curious if others had that issue as well.
Bonewidow is still garbage and I have completely given up on hoping it would be fun. Melee breaks way too often on it and I cant finish the 3 hit combo (although it says it has the range of orthos it doesnt actually hit anything unlike orthos). If you were wondering what necramech to get, get a Voidrig, you will enjoy that more, you will actually do damage, and you won't be as annoyed if you were using Bonewidow.

Open world grinds are becoming the same. Less enjoyable and more so a chore. 

Kit guns along with other weapons have been... something that although has high damage output, look and sound horrific. I do not enjoy using any kitgun that looks that gross. Primaries have 1 rifle skin so good luck if you hate it. It just lets you hate your kit gun rifle less.

Lighting... So DE went on this big thing about lighting and sound. Honestly they wasted 5 Dev streams or so going into details about that stuff. Small clips on the side would have been nice but it just turned into a waste of my time and the stream time. Nobody gets that stuff unless that is their hobby and know about it and I honestly dont care or notice it since i mostly have warframe muted and im listening to Payday 2 music or something else. Now as for visuals, I'll show you a run of Sanctuary Onslaught and compare it to Resident Evil 1. Enjoy! Also if you are wondering why my settings are kinda bad, it's because warframe runs like crap and started to do so 6 months ago. I don't see DE optimizing that at all.

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1 hour ago, KankeiKen said:

It might just be a me problem but running warframe makes my PC run extremely hard for some reason. It happened a while ago but I was curious if others had that issue as well.

It's not just you. After Deimos Arcana update dropped, my warframe started crashing frequently everyday. Whenever a hotfix was deployed the launcher spawned several versions of itself, it would not close and soft locked my pc (power bar to reset, it was essentially bricked). Now I use Epic launcher and my game runs faster, at a higher resolution, only crashes if I look at youtube. So no, it's not just you.

 

 

2 hours ago, CouncilofTheSeven said:

The reason you play a game is to have fun and if it's not fun STOP!

I find the warframe universe fun. I find the abilities fun. But there is no "reason" to play the game. I don't get to work for the Lotus, I don't report to some "High Command", I don't save innocent people who benefit in any lasting way. The only reason to do relics is to feed Baro. The only reason to do certain missions is because Nora promises to pay me. When I feel up to grinding, I have little bits of fun when I grind. Most of my enjoyment of the game is the endorphin release when I get something I want when I worked hard for it. But everything in the game is a chore, I am not able to do it to make anyone else happy. Relevant characters are either gone or have no "higher purpose" in life (Ordis, this means you). Fun is relative.

  • TL;DR Don't question why other people play a game and don't act like you are superior.
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Just to be clear, I do not endorse any abusive attitude toward the devs. I do not agree with any of the angry people that are insulting the devs. They are hard working people that deserve respect and mad props for keeping up a consistent product release schedule during this past year of pandemic.

Take my energy 💖

🎇

\O/

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