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Orphix Venom: Hotfix 29.6.3


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Got only the terracota and bronze trophy blue prints 

My score is 21k along with another clan members score also being 21k

We are a ghost clan so I was expecting to get a gold trophy blueprint for reaching the ghost clan score of more than 18k.

Do I have to wait for the gold trophy blueprints or is my score not enough for ghost clan total?

Please lemme know. Thanks.

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1 hour ago, Trickster-_- said:

Got only the terracota and bronze trophy blue prints 

My score is 21k along with another clan members score also being 21k

We are a ghost clan so I was expecting to get a gold trophy blueprint for reaching the ghost clan score of more than 18k.

Do I have to wait for the gold trophy blueprints or is my score not enough for ghost clan total?

Please lemme know. Thanks.

When you build them the gold one will then be in your email, I just built the silver one and bam gold blueprint was then in my email as a new email.

I'm in a Ghost clan as well, score for the Endurance is only 19988, the others aren't doing it so I'm pubbing it to get our clan the trophies. :) 

Edited by Slayer-.
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13 hours ago, CouncilofTheSeven said:

Now you're putting words in mouth and you claim you're using to use logic?

I never stated Orphrix was good, I said simply it's better than what we have. I even said it could be better. I have to ask did you read my post, or did you see just see I was using the word comparing and decided to respond?

People need to stop living in the past where Scarlet Spear existed, that event was broken in so many ways including the absurd reward to grind ratio.
Arcanes aren't supposed to easily gotten or quick prizes. They are something you have to work for, Heaven Forbid I don't get MY PRIZE RIGHT NOW!

I hate to say, but I feel it must be said. Don't play the event. The reason you play a game is to have fun and if it's not fun STOP! Seriously Stop. This doesn't just go for Warframe but any game. If it's not longer enjoyable and feels like a chore stop playing, I know it can be like an addiction and hard to stop but trust me when you do you will feel better.

Heck even just take a break take if you need to.  Also speak with your wallet, the feedback that matters the most is your wallet. If you don't the direction the game is going don't put money into, period. 

 

You failed fully to understand, and I did read.

 

Now, let's talk about why you're in the category of those calling this event good.  Is it your exact wording...no.  You acknowledged that it could be better....which is a way of stating it is not actually good.  Full stop on logic brakes here.  This is an easy way to play both sides of the field, and not a stance.  It could be better is not an opinion, it's you not wanting to say the opposite side is wrong, but also not want to actually argue because you know the ground you'd stand atop is insubstantial.  

 

 

Now, let's talk history.  I want you to understand how stupid it is to say what you are saying, because you are ignoring the better part of a decade of history when you think that Scarlet Spear was somehow an isolated event.  It is not, and it's a repeat of continuous systemic failures by DE.  Let start with the obvious, and bullet point things.  I'm not going back to the beginning of the game, but I will touch on the issues here.

-The Ballad of Lost Relays-

  • There are too many relays, and no reason to visit any one of them.  In response DE decides to include Vay Hek, and the fomorian cores.  They host an event where ships powered by the fomorian cores attack relays.  It starts off, and people get literally hundreds of millions of points....what?  Yeah, people find that if you spam archwing powers it slows down the server response, but you can rack up points.  Oops.  Well, instead of fixing it we'll just disable power usage.  
  • Speaking of that same event, the first few were easy, but after a week of running the same missions people just burned out.  Combine that with ever increasing HP on the cores, and you get the destruction of a set number of relays....because there needs to be a design decision.
  • Now, years later we've got an event to rebuild the relays.  Yay.  The thing is a grind, because it's RNG drops from enemies on one tile set, crafting a subsequent material, donating it, and the highest reward is....drum roll...the Zylok.  Yes, the pistol you've never seen anyone using outside of getting the mastery rank points.  Now, literally years later, we still don't have all of the relays rebuilt.  We have the Zylok to gather inventory dust, and the legacy of this game changing storyline is that people like an invasion because it's a cheap way to earn a catalyst....if you're really lucky you can get good RNG, and after a few years of utter garbage you might get one of the archwing 60-60 mods.

-The Ballad of the Weekend Event-

  • Both I, and Peperidge farms, remembers the weekend long special event.  What am I talking about?  Well, years ago we had a thing called loadout points, and DE could introduce events where they were limited.  There were events starting midday Friday, and ending midday Monday.  These bite-sized events sucked if you missed them, but happened almost monthly.  What were the rewards?  Catalysts, Reactors, and other small stuff you'd need to progress.
  • Oh...they killed the loadout points system.  They tried their hand at PvP...and in order to do it came to the decision that the loadout points system did not adequately balance people.  Hmmm....instead of a revision it became an ejection of all that was.  No more weekend event balanced to be fun by limiting your choices and forcing new play decisions.
  • What replaced this system?  Well...I remember fighting off a juggernaut, trying to get it to destroy pumpkin stacks, and running like mad to get rewards.  Now, I'm looking at the Nights of Naberus, and it was a month long slog through mother coins.  Grind missions like you already were, deal with the new bugs that are never acknowledged (still see you Corpus Researcher's shield drone that can't recharge it's own shield and decides to fly into the sunset), and do it all for cosmetics only.  No reason to keep grinding, because there weren't any evergreen rewards (in this context forma, catalysts, reactors, or even rivens would have been evergreen).

-The Ballad of Spears and Venom-

  • Let's just go about this by covering the inspirations, the issues, and the obvious design choices.
  • The mission is an introduction to squadlink...and it failed.  Squadlink was a way to bring back some of RAIDs, without actually bringing them back.  Two tenno groups working together to get a big objective complete.
  • The missions themselves were simply a dressed up version of mobile defense, which wasn't inherently a bad thing.  This was effectively a rehash of previous content, but it at least gave us a reason to fight a bunch of sentients.
  • This was another opportunity to have endless missions....where the definition of words was lost.  Endless missions actually meant finite, with the assumed duration for most players being low.  This was assumed because the scaling was odd, the missions were not designed to be "bite-sized," and most frustratingly this was designed all so that power grinders (the fractional percentage of players) couldn't power through the rewards and unbalance the economy by using cheese tactics.
  • Speaking of cheese, Spear and Venom both have capped rewards because of the power grinders, and because DE cannot balance their game.  Admissions of this?  Well, rivens now start at minimum disposition.  Events now start with rewards locked.  Drop rates are somehow less and less rewarding as time goes on.
  • You know....this is all basically an evolution of Plague Star.  Event happens.  Rewards are decent, and the time investment is good.  The rewards on offer are worth the grind (forma).  DE freaks out when people find cheese, and change how frames work.  In the second iteration it keeps everything good, and it's functionally lauded by the community as a power farm for forma.  As of late 2020, it's retired and replaced with an event that rewards no forma.  It's almost like DE noted that things were too rewarding, and retired an event.

 

 

So...should I "forget" Scarlet Spear and live in the moment?  Only idiots do that.  Scarlet Spear is not a one-off failure.  It is a culmination of years of buggy releases, decreasing rewards, increasing grinds, and poor payouts for ever increasing engagement requirements over longer periods of time.  It's effectively losing the bite-size content, losing the fun, and it's losing the people who are sold on this to discover literally hundreds of hours of grind, artificial wait timers, and capped daily grinds to hide the immense time investment if you don't want to fork over money.

You seem like an optimist.  One too ignorant of the past to really understand.  I say this as response to your comments, because you seem to not understand the "how we got here" and only want to focus on how it's not as bad as it could be.  Well, that's stupid.  It's disregarding everything that got us here, and choosing to believe that somehow it'll be better next time.  There's a lot of times I said that, so I mean this as someone who once shared that optimism but had it removed by apathy.

 

 

Let me try this once more, with something right before the Spear.  People were frustrated by progression of Liches, because DE claimed they'd be like Shadows of Mordor.  A genuine threat, with a culminative battle aboard a galleon to finally lay an enemy down and be the amazing space ninjas that seem to exist in trailers.  What did we get?  Well, an RNG chance at drops for a new type of relic (with bad starting rates).  An RNG reward from running those relics.  If you did get a murmur, you had to repeat this to get the other 7.  Now that you have one of each murmur, each murmur is a three time usage before it disappears, fueling the need to continue grinding murmurs infinitely.  Now, you kill a larvling.  That was an initially RNG triple threat.  No idea about the weapon, the element, and no way to stop the Liches from spawning in an enemy group and forcing you to engage this grind.  It eventually dropped to a reasonable situation where you had to choose to kill the larvling, knew the weapon, and the community provided the warframe-element conversion table.  Now you have a Lich, it's time to grind mooks.  Yep, kill a finite number of spawning mooks in any mission, which forces you to do multiple missions to just know which 3 murmurs matter....and remember, the Lich will RNG spawn in missions and either level up when you kill it or just be an annoyance.  Now that you've got the Lich levelled up, and know the three murmurs, there's a 1 in 6 chance of guessing the order right...yes, RNG after a huge grind through numerous mooks.  Finally, you get the Lich killed and the weapon....and usually it's a 15-20% element of a potential 60%.....so you have to repeat the process to get a bunch of weapons to fuse.  Now, grind that weapon through 210 levels (30+32+34+36+38+40), using 5 forma, and fuse the others to get a 60% additional element...to a weapon slightly better than the default version (arguably depending upon model).  Now, repeat all of this for each weapon, and if you want to experiment with different elements get ready for a truck load more grind.

TL; DR - Liches are a grind festival, and suck.  They are an evolution of the Warframe model...which was repeated with Necramechs because nobody could do basic math.  This is not something I forgive, or forget.  It's something I'm aware of when DE wheels out Queenpins....and secretly despise.  I despise it because they're touting that more than a year later they're finally changing the Lich progression...and learning...but they didn't learn for the Necramechs.  They entirely re-invented the wheel with Railjack.  Note, it was months of fighting with the community for Liches, and despite this Necramechs released as they did.

 

I will defend DE when they do good, learn lessons, and deliver on promises.  Orphix Venom is not good, it's better than garbage arcane RNG.  DE hasn't learned their lesson after years, as they continue to extend event duration.  These extended durations are bouyed by bad reward rates, instead of giving us a compelling reason to grind.  Finally...promises.  I'm going to use the Ghoul Saw and dual wield Nikanas, because they literally have years of build-up without a payoff yet.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR for all of this.

DE doesn't learn.  They repeat failures, and continue to extend their engagement times with grind instead of offering a compelling experience.  The last two years of poor financial performance is testament to this.  None of this is just living in the past of Scarlet Spear.  This is looking at almost a decade of history, and seeing repeated failures.  No, Scarlet Spear is not new.  No, Orphix Venom is not new.  The bass-ackwards "just don't play" is not an answer, because if you look at Warframe's PC populations you see that.  If you look at Leyou's financials you see that.  What I want is for DE to get their crap together, and to do that you have to first agree there is a problem.  People who cannot do that will never find solutions.

Edited by master_of_destiny
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I never gave my opinion on this event, but thanks for assuming my opinion.

Since you asked so nicely let me give you my opinion.

I really enjoyed this event and had a blast playing with my clan mates. I got enough cells to buy all of Lavos, all of Cedo, and all the Nercamech mods. And I enjoyed every minute of it. I already have maxed Arcanes from my days of Eidolons so I have no interest in grinding arcanes solely for plat. I still do a run or two day with my clannies cause this is fun!  And I really can't wait for mechs to be able to be used in normal missions.

Edited by CouncilofTheSeven
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1 hour ago, CouncilofTheSeven said:

I never gave my opinion on this event, but thanks for assuming my opinion.

Since you asked so nicely let me give you my opinion.

I really enjoyed this event and had a blast playing with my clan mates. I got enough cells to buy all of Lavos, all of Cedo, and all the Nercamech mods. And I enjoyed every minute of it. I already have maxed Arcanes from my days of Eidolons so I have no interest in grinding arcanes solely for plat. I still do a run or two day with my clannies cause this is fun!  And I really can't wait for mechs to be able to be used in normal missions.

 

On 2020-12-23 at 9:40 PM, CouncilofTheSeven said:

We are comparing to what exist, not to some fictional fantasy.

Whether Eidilons are bad or not is the point; it's what we currently have and Orphrix is far better than what we have.
DE has not made a hint of a suggestion they are ever going to change Eidilons.

Could this better? Absolutely! I would welcome it all honesty. But then again I farmed everything, but arcanes from it.

 

13 hours ago, CouncilofTheSeven said:

Now you're putting words in mouth and you claim you're using to use logic?

I never stated Orphrix was good, I said simply it's better than what we have. I even said it could be better. I have to ask did you read my post, or did you see just see I was using the word comparing and decided to respond?

People need to stop living in the past where Scarlet Spear existed, that event was broken in so many ways including the absurd reward to grind ratio.
Arcanes aren't supposed to easily gotten or quick prizes. They are something you have to work for, Heaven Forbid I don't get MY PRIZE RIGHT NOW!

I hate to say, but I feel it must be said. Don't play the event. The reason you play a game is to have fun and if it's not fun STOP! Seriously Stop. This doesn't just go for Warframe but any game. If it's not longer enjoyable and feels like a chore stop playing, I know it can be like an addiction and hard to stop but trust me when you do you will feel better.

Heck even just take a break take if you need to.  Also speak with your wallet, the feedback that matters the most is your wallet. If you don't the direction the game is going don't put money into, period. 

 

Wow...if I had ever read your posts, I might be able to contradict the statements made.  I could multiquote, then bold and underline the conversation bit relevant to this discussion.

I never stated Orphrix was good, I said simply it's better than what we have. I even said it could be better. I have to ask did you read my post, or did you see just see I was using the word comparing and decided to respond?

 

Well, let's talk.  I read...and demonstrated understanding by calling shenanigans on you never stating your opinion.  This is what we like to call synthesis of information.

 

Let me ask you one more thing, because you seem to be incapable of understanding this.  When does a set of bad decisions, compounded upon one another, begin to be detrimental to a game?  Let me not ask you in qualitative measures, but quantitative ones.  I don't want to ask you to do actual research, because I know that'll never get done.  Let me instead look at the last 6 months of data....assuming the last 30 days is functionally December 2020.  

Month Avg. Players Gain % Gain Peak Players
Last 30 Days 35,724.4 -4,189.6 -10.50% 70,305
November 2020 39,914.0 -1,384.8 -3.35% 68,553
October 2020 41,298.8 -15,032.1 -26.69% 69,891
September 2020 56,330.9 -3,298.2 -5.53% 90,316
August 2020 59,629.0 +20,243.9 +51.40% 154,246
July 2020 39,385.2 -5,445.2 -12.15% 58,719

 

Now, Steam gained 20k players on the release month of Deimos.  It has since lost 24k players.  In this time we've rolled out a revision to Deimos, had the Christmas drive, have active events going for catalyst and forma blue prints, have a 15 day double affinity booster, and still have Orphix Venom going.  With all of that, there's still a huge drop in player count and less than half the peak players.  Before anyone says it, the previous years have player losses in the sub 1k range for December, or some have a net gain, so no pattern has developed to explain this.

Why does this matter, and why is this a problem?  Well, I like the game.  Hopefully you do too, but I'm not assuming.  The issue here is that the game exists due to engagement, trading, and a fresh supply of new blood.  Trading is controlled by rewards...so DE is incentivized to offer cosmetics more than anything tradable.  Fresh blood is supported by advertising and word of mouth...which is the partners...and a quick search of youtube yields some pretty ugly videos about the history of Warframe.  Engagement is great...but is only sustainable until people measure the returns against investment, and still feel like things are fun.

Orphix Venom, as outlined, should be an infusion of new blood and engagement time.  Mechs are a new addition, and relevant.  Lavos and the Cedo are generally good.  The ability to earn Arcanes without garbage RNG chances is great.  That's the paper justification.  Now, why isn't is working?  Well, grind.  Painful, miserable, 2% reward chance grind.  DE did it to promote engagement.  It's not working.  It's not the first time people have responded back that things aren't working, and it isn't the first time I've seen your type of defenses, and calls to just quit if you aren't happy.

50% of the player base on Steam decided to do exactly that.  So, how does Warframe survive with that bleed?

.

..

...

waiting....

 

It doesn't survive.  Warframe slowly bleeds out.  Each content infusion is returning less and less, and it's the signal of a slow death.  The way to fix it is a hard look at what has worked, and to fix things.  The first step is to review what is not working, like month long events driving insane grind.  You accepting this, and using the cop-out of "it could be better" whilst players leave in droves will not fix things.  DE needs to know what is pissing people off, or they'll kill Warframe by repeating this again and again.  They've already demonstrated that an act of god is required to get them to simply give every companion vacuum, let alone make these events more than a miserable grind.  Each person defending this funnels into their echo chamber, and makes it "haters" who have negative feedback.  Well, 50% of people saying "f*** it, I'm out" means that you are doing wrong, not that they're haters.

 

Let me share one anecdote, to round this out.  Wake up in the morning, prepare for the day, and interact with people.  If by lunch time you've met a few people who you'd call jerks, it's likely they've done something to be jerks.  If by lunch everyone you've met were jerks, then what you know is that you are a jerk. 

If half the player base on a platform tells you the game isn't worth playing, despite all of these incentives, then maybe you need to review the incentives.  Maybe it's time to make smaller content, and keep people interested.  Alternatively, have two years of bad fiscal performance and then start asking why after people have already left in droves, and you'll never get them back.  Warframe will likely exist for several more years, but it's unlikely that with the current course of the game it'll have much of a player base by then. 

Surprisingly, I find that depressing because I want the game to be good.  This is why negative feedback is given, rather than simply flipping DE the bird and never logging back in.  That is infinitely easier than writing pages of feedback, being dismissed constantly, then having DE tacitly accept the feedback and never stating why.  Vampirism on Meathook...yeah, that was a suggestion I had well before it was announced.  Felt really good to see it implemented...but that's a rarity.  I hope that DE can do better....but if you tell them everything is fine they'll never change.  They'll also never change if things are good enough when compared to worse things.

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5 hours ago, Trickster-_- said:

Got only the terracota and bronze trophy blue prints 

My score is 21k along with another clan members score also being 21k

We are a ghost clan so I was expecting to get a gold trophy blueprint for reaching the ghost clan score of more than 18k.

Do I have to wait for the gold trophy blueprints or is my score not enough for ghost clan total?

Please lemme know. Thanks.

I'm in the same position, me and my friend both have 15k each but only got the terra/bronze trophy, will we get the other ones eventually? Do we have to do more thats not listed?

1es2nctspy.png

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12 minutes ago, Zyga21 said:

I'm in the same position, me and my friend both have 15k each but only got the terra/bronze trophy, will we get the other ones eventually? Do we have to do more thats not listed?

1es2nctspy.png

if that was before the 2 hotfixes, u will have to redo them

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16 minutes ago, Zyga21 said:

I'm in the same position, me and my friend both have 15k each but only got the terra/bronze trophy, will we get the other ones eventually? Do we have to do more thats not listed?

1es2nctspy.png

If you read my post above under the same quote you did, I mentioned why.

Though I'm thinking you hit quote from reading through and didn't see mine. :wink: 

Also did you get that score after the leader board went active, I think there was some cafuffle about it, not quite sure.  @fo3nixz answered it as I posted so cool.

4 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

When you build them the gold one will then be in your email, I just built the silver one and bam gold blueprint was then in my email as a new email.

I'm in a Ghost clan as well, score for the Endurance is only 19988, the others aren't doing it so I'm pubbing it to get our clan the trophies. :) 

I don't know WHY the HELL DE did it this way, I had the score but didn't get the GOLD Trophy until I built the SILVER ONE. :surprised::facepalm:

Edited by Slayer-.
fo3nixz answered it as I posted so cool.
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On 2020-12-23 at 12:19 AM, awest_asd said:

I can do a full run which gives 2k tokens or 2.5 arcane energizes in under a hour dont know where you get 6 hours for 1 arcane from unless you are leaving a soon as extraction is up

I agree everyone is crying but they just don't prioritize their buying. 

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What master_of_destiny said is pretty accurate. I started playing this game on 1th october this year and right now I have 300 hours into this game.
After each day of playing I am just reminded why this game is called bugframe and I vowed to not spend money on it again until I saw or noticed a change of direction. Unfortunately I have not spend any money since then.

Right now I finished the event and my unranked fluctis is still a unranked fluctis after 30 minutes of playing, and then we stop playing because I cannot be bothered in making another bug report to a company that cares more about make new content to bring people while failing to realise is that people leave because of bugs and gameplay in the first place. Unless they change ways, this problem,which is their mentality,will never be solved.

Edited by MrSigy
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Hmm, Lavos seems to ignore the "use abilities on select" setting (well, kinda)

If you're using a separate button to cast - then when you try to select any of the Lavos' abilities with 1-4 buttons, he immediately uses them.
Holding the 'cast' button infuses currently selected one. Selecting abilities with mouse wheel works.

I believe, this has been said already, but the more attention it gets - the better.

If my memory serves, Garuda has the same problem with her 1

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On 2020-12-24 at 3:47 PM, Enigmose said:

It takes 30 minutes for me to get 1000 cells which is 200 over the highest cost of an arcane. You must be low lvl or doing something terribly wrong.

Where did I mention anything about price. I'm comparing both events. I actually did my research before posting. Just an idea... 

People are talking about full rank arcanes. Not a single rank 0 arcane. 

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vor 11 Stunden schrieb master_of_destiny:

 

 

 

Wow...if I had ever read your posts, I might be able to contradict the statements made.  I could multiquote, then bold and underline the conversation bit relevant to this discussion.

I never stated Orphrix was good, I said simply it's better than what we have. I even said it could be better. I have to ask did you read my post, or did you see just see I was using the word comparing and decided to respond?

 

Well, let's talk.  I read...and demonstrated understanding by calling shenanigans on you never stating your opinion.  This is what we like to call synthesis of information.

 

Let me ask you one more thing, because you seem to be incapable of understanding this.  When does a set of bad decisions, compounded upon one another, begin to be detrimental to a game?  Let me not ask you in qualitative measures, but quantitative ones.  I don't want to ask you to do actual research, because I know that'll never get done.  Let me instead look at the last 6 months of data....assuming the last 30 days is functionally December 2020.  

Month Avg. Players Gain % Gain Peak Players
Last 30 Days 35,724.4 -4,189.6 -10.50% 70,305
November 2020 39,914.0 -1,384.8 -3.35% 68,553
October 2020 41,298.8 -15,032.1 -26.69% 69,891
September 2020 56,330.9 -3,298.2 -5.53% 90,316
August 2020 59,629.0 +20,243.9 +51.40% 154,246
July 2020 39,385.2 -5,445.2 -12.15% 58,719

 

Now, Steam gained 20k players on the release month of Deimos.  It has since lost 24k players.  In this time we've rolled out a revision to Deimos, had the Christmas drive, have active events going for catalyst and forma blue prints, have a 15 day double affinity booster, and still have Orphix Venom going.  With all of that, there's still a huge drop in player count and less than half the peak players.  Before anyone says it, the previous years have player losses in the sub 1k range for December, or some have a net gain, so no pattern has developed to explain this.

Why does this matter, and why is this a problem?  Well, I like the game.  Hopefully you do too, but I'm not assuming.  The issue here is that the game exists due to engagement, trading, and a fresh supply of new blood.  Trading is controlled by rewards...so DE is incentivized to offer cosmetics more than anything tradable.  Fresh blood is supported by advertising and word of mouth...which is the partners...and a quick search of youtube yields some pretty ugly videos about the history of Warframe.  Engagement is great...but is only sustainable until people measure the returns against investment, and still feel like things are fun.

Orphix Venom, as outlined, should be an infusion of new blood and engagement time.  Mechs are a new addition, and relevant.  Lavos and the Cedo are generally good.  The ability to earn Arcanes without garbage RNG chances is great.  That's the paper justification.  Now, why isn't is working?  Well, grind.  Painful, miserable, 2% reward chance grind.  DE did it to promote engagement.  It's not working.  It's not the first time people have responded back that things aren't working, and it isn't the first time I've seen your type of defenses, and calls to just quit if you aren't happy.

50% of the player base on Steam decided to do exactly that.  So, how does Warframe survive with that bleed?

.

..

...

waiting....

 

It doesn't survive.  Warframe slowly bleeds out.  Each content infusion is returning less and less, and it's the signal of a slow death.  The way to fix it is a hard look at what has worked, and to fix things.  The first step is to review what is not working, like month long events driving insane grind.  You accepting this, and using the cop-out of "it could be better" whilst players leave in droves will not fix things.  DE needs to know what is pissing people off, or they'll kill Warframe by repeating this again and again.  They've already demonstrated that an act of god is required to get them to simply give every companion vacuum, let alone make these events more than a miserable grind.  Each person defending this funnels into their echo chamber, and makes it "haters" who have negative feedback.  Well, 50% of people saying "f*** it, I'm out" means that you are doing wrong, not that they're haters.

 

Let me share one anecdote, to round this out.  Wake up in the morning, prepare for the day, and interact with people.  If by lunch time you've met a few people who you'd call jerks, it's likely they've done something to be jerks.  If by lunch everyone you've met were jerks, then what you know is that you are a jerk. 

If half the player base on a platform tells you the game isn't worth playing, despite all of these incentives, then maybe you need to review the incentives.  Maybe it's time to make smaller content, and keep people interested.  Alternatively, have two years of bad fiscal performance and then start asking why after people have already left in droves, and you'll never get them back.  Warframe will likely exist for several more years, but it's unlikely that with the current course of the game it'll have much of a player base by then. 

Surprisingly, I find that depressing because I want the game to be good.  This is why negative feedback is given, rather than simply flipping DE the bird and never logging back in.  That is infinitely easier than writing pages of feedback, being dismissed constantly, then having DE tacitly accept the feedback and never stating why.  Vampirism on Meathook...yeah, that was a suggestion I had well before it was announced.  Felt really good to see it implemented...but that's a rarity.  I hope that DE can do better....but if you tell them everything is fine they'll never change.  They'll also never change if things are good enough when compared to worse things.

I don't know how long have been on board but surely long enough to tell the downsides of Warframe and its updates.

Your posts are always catching my attention, cause they're not "plz fix" but rather a more detailed breakdown as of why things are. I cannot exactly recall when it was but the other day you mentioned that there must be players to point at problems and not white-knight the company with "they're doing their best". No, Warframe cannot and will not improve if everyone either says it's good or ok or just leaving for good without explaining why. I of course don't know you but in the last few updates I got the feeling that you got grumpier anytime you respond to problems in this game (please don't take this seriously, my goal is not to be mean or something).

You said you want this game to be good, but your posts just don't feel like you really mean it.

I play Warframe since the Archwing release and have accumulated around 2.300 hours since then. Many updates got me really excited, like the Plains of Eidolon, Railjack, heck even Orphix Venom got me thrilled to play again. Often I just leave the game for several weeks because the gamebugs in the then-released updates are to much to handle. I just state my opinion here in the forum and hope for fixes. Really naive, I know but better than just quit.

Sometimes my friends are asking me why do I keep playing. "Haven't you already beaten this game?". Sometimes I'm not sure why I do keep playing. Honestly, I even hated this game at the beginning, because the controls were very confusing back then.

I enjoy playing as a Mech, even beeing forced to play a Mech was exciting, because it was another way of using them instead running down Vault at Deimos several times. But that of course doesn't mean Orphix is perfect or rewarding. When I saw the amount of cells I thought to myself "yep, you won't play this for long" and I was right. Played some rounds, got Lavos, Cedo and the Mech-Mods and then discarded the mode. I couldn't care less about the arcanes, since I am ironically not into the min-max lategame like steel path. I just want playing and do stuff. But without proper content I do not feel encouraged to start the game. But then again I don't like to play on broken modes.

TL;DR

Basically I share your opinion on this game. I want it to be good but I don't see it that way. I point at problems I notice but give my share of gratitude to the devs, if deserved.

With this, I wish you all merry christmas and a good start into the next year (Have mercy with my grammar, I live in germany).

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16 minutes ago, PyroMail.Com said:

I don't know how long have been on board but surely long enough to tell the downsides of Warframe and its updates.

Your posts are always catching my attention, cause they're not "plz fix" but rather a more detailed breakdown as of why things are. I cannot exactly recall when it was but the other day you mentioned that there must be players to point at problems and not white-knight the company with "they're doing their best". No, Warframe cannot and will not improve if everyone either says it's good or ok or just leaving for good without explaining why. I of course don't know you but in the last few updates I got the feeling that you got grumpier anytime you respond to problems in this game (please don't take this seriously, my goal is not to be mean or something).

You said you want this game to be good, but your posts just don't feel like you really mean it.

I play Warframe since the Archwing release and have accumulated around 2.300 hours since then. Many updates got me really excited, like the Plains of Eidolon, Railjack, heck even Orphix Venom got me thrilled to play again. Often I just leave the game for several weeks because the gamebugs in the then-released updates are to much to handle. I just state my opinion here in the forum and hope for fixes. Really naive, I know but better than just quit.

Sometimes my friends are asking me why do I keep playing. "Haven't you already beaten this game?". Sometimes I'm not sure why I do keep playing. Honestly, I even hated this game at the beginning, because the controls were very confusing back then.

I enjoy playing as a Mech, even beeing forced to play a Mech was exciting, because it was another way of using them instead running down Vault at Deimos several times. But that of course doesn't mean Orphix is perfect or rewarding. When I saw the amount of cells I thought to myself "yep, you won't play this for long" and I was right. Played some rounds, got Lavos, Cedo and the Mech-Mods and then discarded the mode. I couldn't care less about the arcanes, since I am ironically not into the min-max lategame like steel path. I just want playing and do stuff. But without proper content I do not feel encouraged to start the game. But then again I don't like to play on broken modes.

TL;DR

Basically I share your opinion on this game. I want it to be good but I don't see it that way. I point at problems I notice but give my share of gratitude to the devs, if deserved.

With this, I wish you all merry christmas and a good start into the next year (Have mercy with my grammar, I live in germany).

 

Respectable opinion.

 

I won't draw this out, but let me point to one example of this year and why I may seem grumpy.  The rework of the corpus ship tileset happened.  There's going to be bugs...but in week one the bug thread was filled time and again with pictures of stuff spawning outside player bounds.  Ayatan sculptures, and syndicate medallions specifically.  Things you can't pick-up with vacuum, and have immense value given their rarity.

Now, two weeks pass....and no fix.  Pictures, locations, multiple people reporting it.  If we assume about 500 syndicate standing a day lost, that's 14*500 or 7000 syndicate standing up in smoke.  Two months....three months....five months.  Yeah, that's 7000*10 = 70000 or 3.5 relic packs.  Just disappearing, no comment given by DE.  You know what eventually happened, a developer on one of the threads thanks a poster, and said they'd look into it.  Great!  Give that person a cookie (this is not sarcastic, it's meant as a reward for being good).  It took the better part of 6 months, but it finally seems like they've fixed it.

Now, is this in the patch notes....reading....reading....nope.  Somebody at DE did the right work, and at best gets a footnote in a forum post, buried pages into a feedback thread.  This should be an opportunity to test for a few days, confirm anecdotally that everything is working, and give some optimism.  Note, if you read a previous post regarding the Deimos update I was optimistic that the stated changes sounded good.  This is what I want.  Being angry and frustrated is draining, and it's not what anyone wants.

 

So, I spend the time to verify.  It's only a couple of days...but in that time I run into a literally years old issue with syndicate medallion spawns in the void.  Yep, a random pathway in the challenge rooms doesn't open, and wouldn't you know it a medallion spawns there.  This was an issue discussed literally 3-4 years ago, and DE stated they'd be opening up the pathways so we weren't forced to lose medallions.  How do you give people praise, when confronted with literally years old bugs that never get resolved?  

I get sounding angry.  I get people who just want to have fun with friends.  I cannot abide DE getting a pass, because they want to be both capable of releasing buggy messes and still receive praise for their "free" game.  Why do I place free in quotations?  Well, try playing the game without slots.  That's what you have to buy, and the default amount is surprisingly low.  Not viable to play low.  

 

 

I say all of this now, while my game is locked in a host-transfer loop on my railjack.  A game mode showing numerous new bugs, that largely have arisen in the recent updates.  Something that we were sold for almost two years before it was delivered.  I get asking for optimism.  I get labelling me as a pessimist.  I even get telling people like me to just leave.

All of that said, I like Warframe.  I want it to succeed.  It hurts me to see a 50% drop in player counts.  DE doesn't need people to tell them things are fine, when demonstrably they are not.  They need some anger, some people who are willing to call them on their crap, and those willing to continue to be adamant.  It's too easy to mistake adamantly wishing for change, with simple bile.  Too many miss the nuance.  This is why you saw (past tense) partners drop out.  I particularly like the train man...fill in your own name...and the constant push for consistency in policy from DE that literally took years, a developer backlash, a community backlash to the backlash, and enough bad PR to kill most games before anything was done.  That's what people trying to get change fight.

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Anybody else feel like Lavos needs a bit of a nerf to really be fun?  His first two abilities' cooldowns are low enough that his 3 doesn't need to be used for them, while the cooldown for his 4 is INCREDIBLY high and the 3 doesn't SEEM to do a lot for it.  Plus, his abilities seem to do enough damage at base power strength that you don't really get to use the full effect of his 4.

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I wish it would be truly endless with enemy level going up, without running everywhere to kill the resonators then get to the pearl in the clam and it's dead already.. this is mostly just a running simulator but now with an archgun.

Index farming is more fun because you actually have to think.

If DE is listening read a deconstruction (with video) of Killing Floor 2's class based system, that I did.

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Can Orphix hitboxes please be adjusted?  
Currently they're rather janky and it gets obscured by invisible barriers on it's body so you have to be on very specific angles and STILL aim in a very small corner of it's eye instead of being able to hit the entire weak point freely.

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Le 25/12/2020 à 09:22, master_of_destiny a dit :

The ability to earn Arcanes without garbage RNG chances is great.  That's the paper justification.  Now, why isn't is working?  Well, grind.

As a side-note, had they gone farther and given us a really good way to get Arcanes (which, as a player who doesn't have any, I'll really like to have !) then there might have been a bigger backlash from the traders screaming "lost value !" because they spent hundred of hours to get something I could get in 2 or 3h and therefore their plat goes down the drain....

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23 minutes ago, Thelk641 said:

As a side-note, had they gone farther and given us a really good way to get Arcanes (which, as a player who doesn't have any, I'll really like to have !) then there might have been a bigger backlash from the traders screaming "lost value !" because they spent hundred of hours to get something I could get in 2 or 3h and therefore their plat goes down the drain....

The riven black market.

The Primed Chamber mod.

 

Why cite these two things?  Well, let's review.  The riven black market is a reference to the trading state of this game about two years ago.  Specific valuable riven rolls could be had, and literally were trading for thousands of platinum.  DE allowed this to happen....because if you never actively track information you never see a problem.

Then a user out there created a program that scraped chat, and pulled pricing on rivens.  Suddenly, everyone could see plain as day that there were some shenanigans going on.  People buying rivens with little investment, manipulating the market, and then driving purchase prices to silly levels.   Yes, literally thousands of platinum.  Once this black market was shown, what happened?

Well, there's the rub.  The initial response from DE was...frustrating.  They immediately tried to attack the person who scraped the data...because scraping the data was a no-no.  That's not a real fix, but would have hidden the issue.  Thankfully, the community didn't stand for that crap.  The follow-up was to rebalance rivens.  Boy, did some of them lose their value.  People were angry there.  Instead of rivens being about balancing underpowered weapons to be high level viable suddenly rivens were simply meta requirements.  That won't do...so another balance pass.

People continued to be frustrated, because the balancing passes seemed random.  You could literally have a good riven Monday, and on Tuesday the riven had been degraded to the point of being useless.  That's definitely a way to kill evergreen content, because when you're high MR there's literally nothing else to occupy your time.  So...two more riven balances happen at the prime release schedule, melee gets a complete rework, and DE stumbles across the current state of things.  Release all rivens as garbage.  Wait for play data to come in.  Boost weapons based on usage statistics, not on power, because you cannot adequately balance these weapons.  In this way no weapon loses a lot of riven disposition, new weapons get a huge bump after 90 days, and a black market cannot form because nothing even remotely usable can ever get truly amazing rivens.

The TL;DR is that DE was not afraid to allow a riven black market.  They were not afraid to collapse that market.  They are not afraid to make rivens useless for at least 90 days on new content.  That's strong indication they could alter how arcanes work without any issue.

 

 

The Primed Chamber mod was literally years of exclusivity.  A one time reward, that could fetch multiple thousands of platinum if it ever came onto the market.  It rarely did...and DE was always hinting that the thing was not a one-and-done offer.  Years passed.  There was somebody asking about this about every dev stream, but no other action.  Then, Baro was selling the mod for an insane price when things looked rough.

Suddenly everyone could buy the thing with ducats, discover how meh it was because the Vectis Prime has two shots, and the value of the mod dropped to rock bottom.

 

 

The above two examples are where DE forcibly crashed the value of things.  Despite the crash, and the anger from the community, they had no issues doing these things.  Now, rivens have been nerfed substantially from the start.  Primed Chamber was demonstrated to be a mod that isn't worth all the hype.  

Now, these two things offer far less utility than arcanes.  You get two free arcane slots on your frame, and the effects are literally game changing.  Do I believe that DE would be stopped by this?  No.  Rivens at one point could make some pretty bad weapons brokenly powerful.  They were more broken than arcanes, but allowed to exist for years.

 

 

 

Now, let me share my personal opinion, sans the facts.  I did a bunch of grinding (200+ runs) and had about 6 total platinum arcanes (6/30).  Yeah, the RNG screwed me pretty hard, but I only needed 10 for the completed arcanes, right?  Then the arcane modification hit, and suddenly the few good arcanes I had and needed were going to cost twice as much, and deliver less.  I was a huge fan of a dual guardian build on squishy frames (Zephyr Prime), to compensate for having no armor.  DE listened to the backlash, bumped base armor on a lot of frames, and bumped the requirements up promising that Scarlet Spear would fix the arcane availability issue.

Well, Scarlet Spear happened...and boy was it a grind.  Time gating, broken interactions, a delay before any arcanes were being sold, and pricing that was silly meant the event was largely about grinding intrinsics and face melting grind to get arcanes.  Not fun...but eventually tolerable.  That was, until frames ate permanent nerfs for their ability to efficiently grind this temporary content.

After all this, I had my full boat of arcanes.  That was great, because it offered me new power and abilities.  You know what, this was almost as game changing as the operator form.  Everybody should have access to this, after a reasonable grind.  I think that bad RNG drops suck, because if you're lucky the Eidolon fights only need to be completed about 400 times (numerically averaged at 420 for a 5% drop requiring 21 arcanes)....but at that point it's long ceased being about fun and rewards.

So...just give arcanes out?  No.  Let's talk about a 3 pack of arcanes awarded for a weekly mission.  Let's talk about Teshin offering a weekly pack that can be bought.  Let's talk arbitration offering an arcane pack for vitus essence.  Let's even talk about an ongoing sentient hunt where the dropped cores could be traded for standing (like Cetus), and specific arcanes can be purchased.  It's slightly lessening that grind, and removing the utter frustration of getting a huge string of bad RNG.  You still have immense engagement time, but if after 10 hunts you have nothing great you'll be able to buy something good.  Ironically, it's the same basic mechanic introduced with Orphix Venom (which was good), only at a rate which doesn't feel like pulling teeth.

TL;DR I liked the idea of Orphix Venom.  You have RNG, but balanced against constant rewards that make sure it isn't too much of a penalty.  The problem is that it's not rewarding enough on that consistent side to be fun, and the drop tables are so watered down that a 2% or 4% drop rate for the new content is all we get.  Yeah, that's a designed grind which they thought was hidden well enough.  They problem is that for those of us reviewing the numbers, this was one step forward and two back.  They implemented something good, and executed bad.

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