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25 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

 

The US also has a really big historical record on experimenting on innocent human beings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study (just to give one example).

It baffles me how "americans" (implying america is a country lmfao) deliberately ignores that stuff and points out to China for doing literally the same S#&$. Living in a country where the US has operated doign coups and destroying the whole ecosystem just makes me wanna puke. But heyyy, china baaad. US, China, Russia and every single country that has that stupid desire for power over other countries are the whole problem, but it's always mroe easy looking for the scapegoat.

"But muh data"!!! Same #*!%ing data CIA tried to collect even from notepad ++ https://notepad-plus-plus.org/downloads/v7.3.3/

IDGAF about hypocrites that disguises their true intentions behind the "human right advocate" masquerade.

That is a whole lot of "whataboutism", which is a fallacy. The actions of a second antagonist does not make the actions of the first antagonist any less despicable. But by all means, let all sins come into the light.

You also have numerous wrongful assumptions:

1: You conflate a government with its people and large commercial actors in general. In most countries with western values, these are seperate entities. If proper measures are in place, actions like corruption, undue influence or other crimes against the populus or external entities will result in removal of officials and punitive actions against aggressors. In the case of the CCP, however, their system give on one hand free reign to market forces, and on the other hand the CCP have the ultimate say in any actions that company takes, inside China or outside. Their government and socio-cultural structure is nothing like in your home country, The US, the EU or the scandinavian countries. And that brings me to another important point. The chinese as a people are NOT to be blamed for the Uighur camps, the Crapple factory with suicide nets, or the current pandemic. Your generalizations only promote a merging of country and people into a single entity, which may make things easier to fit into your world view, but ultimately only promotes a prejudgemental attitude.

2: You seem oblivious as to why the actions of the CCP is of any concern to us. The reason why it is our concern is, that the influence of the CCP through its proxies in commercial actors are active all over the western world as well as a vast amount of the rest of the world. This impacts trade and economic balances, socio-economic patterns, military influence, cultural expression and overall discourse. It essentially creates leverage, that can be used to shape general perception of the world, steer geopolitical actions/reactions to varying degrees, and silence the voices of those critical of the regime. Recently, a dataleak showed influence reaching even deeper. Furthermore, there is an instinct called empathy, and it can vary from a gesture to elevate ones percieved moral worth, to a pathologic drive to fight for the rights and well being of anyone they deem wronged. However, most of us simply don't want to see other people suffer, and at least have a fair chance in life. That's why we care.

3: You've been generalizing participants in this discussion heavily, and been judging people in a rather rash and partisan manner. You know nothing about any of us, and just assume waving the sins of America around will make our arguments less valid. It is simply a red herring, another fallacy. A lot of us aren't even american or canadian. So why the hate? It is clear, that you hate the US, but again, the american people, and the american participants in this discussion are most likely not the ones wrecking your country. You're even lowering yourself to calling people here "scum". Once you start using derogative language, you're telling us, that you've run out of arguments.

On top of that, what do you know about, what any of us do in these matters? There are alternatives to chinese and american manufacture. I also buy second-hand and refurbished parts, get hand-me-downs and repair myself. Clothing I buy from local manufacture, or made in Sweden or Germany. I buy things that last, and patch, darn and repair to extend use by an order of magnitude. It is possible to avoid large scale consumerism, buy ethically sound, and minimize your eco-footprint without going all-out Greta Thunberg and go back to the stoneage. And you have not an inkling about my professional, social or political engagements. So don't make your baseless assumptions, just so you can savour that cathartic indignation.

4: You seem to be of the "all or nothing" mindset. Well, guess what. Most initiatives are done in increments, through compromize, over longer time. Just because things aren't happening here and now, doesn't mean there's nothing left to do, but crawl into a corner and pull out the small violin to play "Woe is me". A lot of women's, ethnic and LGBT rights movements fought for equality for decades upon decades, and it can still be debated, whether that goal is or is not still reached. But none of them got where they are now through apathy. They got there through perseverence, taking one step at a time.

So perhaps you should put down your Byron, and read some Musashi, Sun Tzu and Lin Yutang.

 

 

 

 

 

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We clearly see we're in 2020/2021 now and no longer in 2013 with everybody crying over fresh news shouting this is bad blablabla.

Parnerships & ownership aren't new on the game, and so far the game only got better, unless you're somebody talking about 2013 era while you weren't even here, because when I remind 2013 and 2020, I can only tell the game got better, unlike some other games like LoL.

Warframe now being owned by the company that also owns Fortnite / Clash of series / LoL won't make kids and stuff come on the game (spoiler alert : there's way more kids in the game than you're probably expecting atm) and ruin everything with dances and stuff like that.

If it means that DE will now have more money to invest to hire people / Look for new technologies (Maybe Cross-save finally ?) / Upgrade their graphic engine and stuff like that, then I don't really care about who's piloting the ship, and it should be the same for you, first they could have simply not told you a thing and you wouldn't be there crying over it, secondly your cries won't change anything, the cries of a thousand people won't change anything when there are millions on the table.

So quit crying for nothing as you like to do, because so far as I remember, I can't recall people going on forum to cry over stuff like that 7 years ago, it looks like you became the guys you always wanted to avoid that actually are on games you dislike owned by tencent, so have an Happy New Year, and wait for results instead of trying to predict an uncertain future.

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)Ze_LoBoToMiZeUr said:

We clearly see we're in 2020/2021 now and no longer in 2013 with everybody crying over fresh news shouting this is bad blablabla.

Parnerships & ownership aren't new on the game, and so far the game only got better, unless you're somebody talking about 2013 era while you weren't even here, because when I remind 2013 and 2020, I can only tell the game got better, unlike some other games like LoL.

Warframe now being owned by the company that also owns Fortnite / Clash of series / LoL won't make kids and stuff come on the game (spoiler alert : there's way more kids in the game than you're probably expecting atm) and ruin everything with dances and stuff like that.

If it means that DE will now have more money to invest to hire people / Look for new technologies (Maybe Cross-save finally ?) / Upgrade their graphic engine and stuff like that, then I don't really care about who's piloting the ship, and it should be the same for you, first they could have simply not told you a thing and you wouldn't be there crying over it, secondly your cries won't change anything, the cries of a thousand people won't change anything when there are millions on the table.

So quit crying for nothing as you like to do, because so far as I remember, I can't recall people going on forum to cry over stuff like that 7 years ago, it looks like you became the guys you always wanted to avoid that actually are on games you dislike owned by tencent, so have an Happy New Year, and wait for results instead of trying to predict an uncertain future.

This makes sense. Right on!

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3 hours ago, Yrkul said:

That is a whole lot of "whataboutism", which is a fallacy. The actions of a second antagonist does not make the actions of the first antagonist any less despicable. But by all means, let all sins come into the light.

You also have numerous wrongful assumptions:

1: You conflate a government with its people and large commercial actors in general. In most countries with western values, these are seperate entities. If proper measures are in place, actions like corruption, undue influence or other crimes against the populus or external entities will result in removal of officials and punitive actions against aggressors. In the case of the CCP, however, their system give on one hand free reign to market forces, and on the other hand the CCP have the ultimate say in any actions that company takes, inside China or outside. Their government and socio-cultural structure is nothing like in your home country, The US, the EU or the scandinavian countries. And that brings me to another important point. The chinese as a people are NOT to be blamed for the Uighur camps, the Crapple factory with suicide nets, or the current pandemic. Your generalizations only promote a merging of country and people into a single entity, which may make things easier to fit into your world view, but ultimately only promotes a prejudgemental attitude.

Again, this is not about "hataboutism" or to mitigate China horrors on innocents. I'm asking, why people behave like this against China, but not against the UK, US, Russia or Israel? All those examples includes almost the same whole paragarph dedicated to China horrors. Where is the distinction? For me there is no difference between those places, the scum of the earth resides there making proxy wars, enslaving innocents, destroying the whole planet (and now preparing to war over the Artic waters!).

1) This is not true. You have war criminals like Biden now in the US office: https://www.globalresearch.ca/yugoslav-wars-biden-belligerent-militarism-revisited/5726228 Sanctions for the "western culture" doesn't exist when it comes to the US. Do you see any sanction for the US based on multiple intervemtions of foreing countries? I don't. And my generalization was "It baffles me how "americans" (implying america is a country lmfao) deliberately ignores that stuff and points out to China for doing literally the same Sh*t"Where I'm saying americans are war criminals? I'm talking about the goverment decisions when I'mk talking about the countries, in the same fashion that I use "China" instead "CCP" like you. But hey!, let's ignore it and proceed to accuse generalizations that no one made.

 

3 hours ago, Yrkul said:

2: You seem oblivious as to why the actions of the CCP is of any concern to us. The reason why it is our concern is, that the influence of the CCP through its proxies in commercial actors are active all over the western world as well as a vast amount of the rest of the world. This impacts trade and economic balances, socio-economic patterns, military influence, cultural expression and overall discourse. It essentially creates leverage, that can be used to shape general perception of the world, steer geopolitical actions/reactions to varying degrees, and silence the voices of those critical of the regime. Recently, a dataleak showed influence reaching even deeper. Furthermore, there is an instinct called empathy, and it can vary from a gesture to elevate ones percieved moral worth, to a pathologic drive to fight for the rights and well being of anyone they deem wronged. However, most of us simply don't want to see other people suffer, and at least have a fair chance in life. That's why we care.

2) LIterally the same with the US, again. But if for you doing multiple coups between 1950/1980 on almost all latinoamerica didn't was to shape all the way to "destory communism". Wanna proof? https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/chile/index.html This happened to my country. Relatives of me died because of this. Sure its about empathy, right? You care because it's China, not because human rights.

 

3 hours ago, Yrkul said:

3: You've been generalizing participants in this discussion heavily, and been judging people in a rather rash and partisan manner. You know nothing about any of us, and just assume waving the sins of America around will make our arguments less valid. It is simply a red herring, another fallacy. A lot of us aren't even american or canadian. So why the hate? It is clear, that you hate the US, but again, the american people, and the american participants in this discussion are most likely not the ones wrecking your country. You're even lowering yourself to calling people here "scum". Once you start using derogative language, you're telling us, that you've run out of arguments.

On top of that, what do you know about, what any of us do in these matters? There are alternatives to chinese and american manufacture. I also buy second-hand and refurbished parts, get hand-me-downs and repair myself. Clothing I buy from local manufacture, or made in Sweden or Germany. I buy things that last, and patch, darn and repair to extend use by an order of magnitude. It is possible to avoid large scale consumerism, buy ethically sound, and minimize your eco-footprint without going all-out Greta Thunberg and go back to the stoneage. And you have not an inkling about my professional, social or political engagements. So don't make your baseless assumptions, just so you can savour that cathartic indignation.

 

3) In the same fashion that people started to generalize about me, I've been doing it. For me, you are bunch of internet hypocrites. Scum was for the countries, every country that bombed or stomped over others repeteadly through their history it's a scum country for me. The "sins of America" aren't to make your arguments on China less relevant or less true. I'm trying to understand why you doa  blind eye on the US and go full "human rights advocate" with China. 

All your actions doesn't have any impact on those countries making money. It's the same vegan fallacie about "not eating animals" (and I'm vegan, so...) mkaes animal not dying. It's false. Eventually, our money goes to those we didn't want to support. How I see it, is jsut a personal choice to make your conciousness more clean and to talk about "activism". Doesn't do S#&$. Animals are still dying, and you buying " second hand stuff" doesn't make people suffer less, in factm your actions are so minimal that I can't even bash it, because it reduces to just "vote with your wallet" mindset. But keep feeling great with that chief, at least I'm sure that's the only thing it will accomplish.

3 hours ago, Yrkul said:

4: You seem to be of the "all or nothing" mindset. Well, guess what. Most initiatives are done in increments, through compromize, over longer time. Just because things aren't happening here and now, doesn't mean there's nothing left to do, but crawl into a corner and pull out the small violin to play "Woe is me". A lot of women's, ethnic and LGBT rights movements fought for equality for decades upon decades, and it can still be debated, whether that goal is or is not still reached. But none of them got where they are now through apathy. They got there through perseverence, taking one step at a time.

So perhaps you should put down your Byron, and read some Musashi, Sun Tzu and Lin Yutang.

4) Maybe, but this is larger than you or me. I know your intentons as a "human right adocate" weren't true and I know your ridiculous cheer up stand comedy-tier video wasn't in good faith, and your "doesn't mean there's nothing left to do, but crawl into a corner and pull out the small violin to play "Woe is me"" is the proof. As I've said, direct action makes changes, not your cringe worthy "activism" that just relies on goign full REEEE- over a chinese company buying another chinese company (a H.K based company that didn't have any of the issues you people have with this. Hong Kong.) that happens to invest in the videogame you play. Just pointing out sins doesn't do S#&$, just "voting withyour wallet" doesn't do S#&$. Talking and making conversations doesn't do S#&$ if you don't put praxis  in the scheme.

I'm fine with Byron, its a great poet, thank you.

Do you know what I love with things like this? How easily you can put the masquerade of the internet human rights paladins. You care because it's China, not because human rights. Also, you may want to do a research over Sweden or Germany... Maybe you'll have to look over new economies to invest after reading on why they are so wealthy and eco-friendly right now.

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For those judging DE for the acquisition remember that DE can't do anything legal about it and we can only do what we think it is the best by playing, not paying or just leaving. The choice is yours, but don't scream at them for something they can't control.

Edited by HolySeraphin
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9 hours ago, vanaukas said:

Again, this is not about "hataboutism" or to mitigate China horrors on innocents. I'm asking, why people behave like this against China, but not against the UK, US, Russia or Israel? All those examples includes almost the same whole paragarph dedicated to China horrors. Where is the distinction? For me there is no difference between those places, the scum of the earth resides there making proxy wars, enslaving innocents, destroying the whole planet (and now preparing to war over the Artic waters!).

1) This is not true. You have war criminals like Biden now in the US office: https://www.globalresearch.ca/yugoslav-wars-biden-belligerent-militarism-revisited/5726228 Sanctions for the "western culture" doesn't exist when it comes to the US. Do you see any sanction for the US based on multiple intervemtions of foreing countries? I don't. And my generalization was "It baffles me how "americans" (implying america is a country lmfao) deliberately ignores that stuff and points out to China for doing literally the same Sh*t"Where I'm saying americans are war criminals? I'm talking about the goverment decisions when I'mk talking about the countries, in the same fashion that I use "China" instead "CCP" like you. But hey!, let's ignore it and proceed to accuse generalizations that no one made.

 

2) LIterally the same with the US, again. But if for you doing multiple coups between 1950/1980 on almost all latinoamerica didn't was to shape all the way to "destory communism". Wanna proof? https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/chile/index.html This happened to my country. Relatives of me died because of this. Sure its about empathy, right? You care because it's China, not because human rights.

 

 

3) In the same fashion that people started to generalize about me, I've been doing it. For me, you are bunch of internet hypocrites. Scum was for the countries, every country that bombed or stomped over others repeteadly through their history it's a scum country for me. The "sins of America" aren't to make your arguments on China less relevant or less true. I'm trying to understand why you doa  blind eye on the US and go full "human rights advocate" with China. 

All your actions doesn't have any impact on those countries making money. It's the same vegan fallacie about "not eating animals" (and I'm vegan, so...) mkaes animal not dying. It's false. Eventually, our money goes to those we didn't want to support. How I see it, is jsut a personal choice to make your conciousness more clean and to talk about "activism". Doesn't do S#&$. Animals are still dying, and you buying " second hand stuff" doesn't make people suffer less, in factm your actions are so minimal that I can't even bash it, because it reduces to just "vote with your wallet" mindset. But keep feeling great with that chief, at least I'm sure that's the only thing it will accomplish.

4) Maybe, but this is larger than you or me. I know your intentons as a "human right adocate" weren't true and I know your ridiculous cheer up stand comedy-tier video wasn't in good faith, and your "doesn't mean there's nothing left to do, but crawl into a corner and pull out the small violin to play "Woe is me"" is the proof. As I've said, direct action makes changes, not your cringe worthy "activism" that just relies on goign full REEEE- over a chinese company buying another chinese company (a H.K based company that didn't have any of the issues you people have with this. Hong Kong.) that happens to invest in the videogame you play. Just pointing out sins doesn't do S#&$, just "voting withyour wallet" doesn't do S#&$. Talking and making conversations doesn't do S#&$ if you don't put praxis  in the scheme.

I'm fine with Byron, its a great poet, thank you.

Do you know what I love with things like this? How easily you can put the masquerade of the internet human rights paladins. You care because it's China, not because human rights. Also, you may want to do a research over Sweden or Germany... Maybe you'll have to look over new economies to invest after reading on why they are so wealthy and eco-friendly right now.

You are again committing the same fallacies, I pointed out.

I guess you'll just stay in that little cognitive foxhole of yours, no matter the arguments. Too bad.

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35 minutes ago, Yrkul said:

You are again committing the same fallacies, I pointed out.

I guess you'll just stay in that little cognitive foxhole of yours, no matter the arguments. Too bad.

Sure pal :)

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On 2020-12-31 at 3:52 PM, vanaukas said:

 

The US also has a really big historical record on experimenting on innocent human beings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study (just to give one example).

It baffles me how "americans" (implying america is a country lmfao) deliberately ignores that stuff and points out to China for doing literally the same S#&$. Living in a country where the US has operated doign coups and destroying the whole ecosystem just makes me wanna puke. But heyyy, china baaad. US, China, Russia and every single country that has that stupid desire for power over other countries are the whole problem, but it's always mroe easy looking for the scapegoat.

"But muh data"!!! Same #*!%ing data CIA tried to collect even from notepad ++ https://notepad-plus-plus.org/downloads/v7.3.3/

IDGAF about hypocrites that disguises their true intentions behind the "human right advocate" masquerade.

1 thing does not magically invalidate the other.

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13 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

1 thing does not magically invalidate the other.

 

On 2020-12-31 at 8:38 PM, vanaukas said:

Again, this is not about "hataboutism" or to mitigate China horrors on innocents. I'm asking, why people behave like this against China, but not against the UK, US, Russia or Israel? All those examples includes almost the same whole paragarph dedicated to China horrors. Where is the distinction? For me there is no difference between those places, the scum of the earth resides there making proxy wars, enslaving innocents, destroying the whole planet (and now preparing to war over the Artic waters!).

 

 The "sins of America" aren't to make your arguments on China less relevant or less true. I'm trying to understand why you doa  blind eye on the US and go full "human rights advocate" with China. 

It's literally on the same post you've quoted. Pointing out sins of other "super powers" is the basis to my questin (that I've done repeteadly here): "Why y'all turn a blind eye on US/Russia/UK/Canada/Israel/Germany/Sweden and any other contry that predates (or predated enough to being " a rich country") small countries in diverse ways ( destroying eco-systems, literal slavery, concentration camps, multiple violations to humans rights, bombing on innocent people, proxy wars for profit, etc), buty start to melt when its about China?"

For me, it's because it's China, because if you all care about human rights, you won't be turning a blind eye with them. A guy above said that he is ok with hsi country doing the shaddy stuff he does, at least he is honest with it, even if I disagree.

But sure pal, it's about trying to "invalidate" stuff.

 

(I know that maybe you won't get this either, but let me explain it more easily: I hate on the same way every single country that does shaddy stuff on innocents for profit, but that doesn't stop me to "give them my money", because my money goes to them regardless my intentions and I've learned to live with that. While I could easily go offline and do stuff for myself (like permaculture, bioconstruction, etc) but the world will still doing the same stuff as it does right now. Because "our wallets" doesn't matter when we comapre us to literal "super powers" and their political and economical game with us. You can quit playing the game and China will still grow stronger because no matter what boycott we do, they are bigger than us. Israel has been boycotted since literal years by civilians and what we accomplished? Nothing. Roger waters calls to boycott Israel, what he accomplished? Nothing but praise for virtual signaling. Israel is still bombing innocent people in Palestine.)

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Sounds like a buncha people are mad. Go complain to Leyou, I dunno that they HAD to sell DE to Tencent. Remember that Leyou is also a Chinese company, so it isn't like much changed there, just a different business daddy in China. 

I'd wager the only thing to worry about is if DE is asked to put any new code in to assist with tracking users and their habits whether online or offline, not like anyone with a social media presence isn't already doing that freely. Other than that they're still under Canada's jurisdiction and have to abide by their consumer protection laws. 

I like the idea of a diversified chicken company owning DE, but.,... it isn't like Tencent doesn't know how to let a game keep running and doing what it does best. For all we know this may be the best avenue for DE to work on additional products, Warframe-related or otherwise. They may help prioritize cross-save and partial cross-play to bring Warframe in line with Fortnite in terms of people playing with whomever from wherever. Maybe an upgraded mobile app so you can manage everything from crafting to trade to grabbing a daily login to just chatting with pals online? 

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SO you have been bought by a Chinese Firm.... I won't hold my breath but I can see Loot boxes, Platinum price rises and market price hikes in the future... I hope not but this is what Chinese firm do.... Player Focus goes out the window and profit profit profit becomes number one.

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22 minutes ago, ---No-Mercy--- said:

SO you have been bought by a Chinese Firm.... I won't hold my breath but I can see Loot boxes, Platinum price rises and market price hikes in the future... I hope not but this is what Chinese firm do.... Player Focus goes out the window and profit profit profit becomes number one.

err what firm was leyou..

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3 hours ago, fo3nixz said:

err what firm was leyou..

Fun fact: It was under Leyou (a chinese company) that DE removed mod packs, increased the minimum rewards of missions by removing the lesser ones (if a mission had a 50 credit and 2000 credit reward they removed the 50 one) and also allowed us to easily farm axi relics from Lua disruption, reducing farm from 15-20 min to ~6 minutes per attempt and also allowing you to get axi on every rotation while the old one was B-C on most cases.

They also crashed Primed Chamber's market by giving it to Baro. Price went down from 200K-900K pl to 500. They also kinda screwed the new weapon riven market by reducing disposition of new weapons to 0.5. Due to a riven scandal they also provided an official list of minimum, average and max riven prices.

 

But to be fair the original relics and rivens were created after Leyou takeover, but they still allowed DE to reduce the grind and profit by doing these changes.

Edited by HolySeraphin
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2020-12-31 at 2:33 PM, Kidkilla said:

Russia (invaded another country and annexed it, deployed chemical weapons on foreign soil against internal dissidents), insert Emirates/kingdoms/Countries in the ME here (most of the 9/11 conspirators were from 'allied' nations as were a number within ISIS), any number of African/South American countries (Zimbabwe, South Africa, Venezuela, Mexico), hell even Australia - those off shore detention centers for migrants aren't just for show and have a look at its activities in S.E Asia. Some it is down right colonial. My point - China isn't the only bad actor out there but we seem to have amnesia when those bad actors happen to be our 'friends'. 

yeah but companies arent lining up to suckle the money flow from russia and the likes, just china, so turn a blind eye bcuz profits.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2021-01-25 at 6:31 PM, Methanoid said:

yeah but companies arent lining up to suckle the money flow from russia and the likes, just china, so turn a blind eye bcuz profits.

you sure about that? There's a reason the EU and some US energy companies have lobbied and are lobbying for less economic restrictions. And some of the mechanisms to around current restrictions have included 'seperate' legal entities but having the same board members, cooperative agreements in the 3rd countries etc. A casual deep dive into global finance will show that EVERYONE is at it.

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