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Corn Robot: Must we go in this direction?


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15 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

I don't like them, but before I consider quitting, it's worth saying that I wouldn't quit if DE would just get back to WF basics. Frames, guns, blades, huge hordes of baddies to tear through, and a deep mod system that allows for creativity and optimization to coexist. Instead, we get more and more horizontal bloat full of shallow minigames and parasitic grinds. It's like going to Burger King and finding out they don't sell burgers anymore, but hey you can buy hamburger flavored soda.

There's already a lot of that.....it's been 7 years....I constantly have frames and weapons to improve and play around with. I'm gonna be busy for like another 2 years. 

It's common sense that games aren't gonna cater to the people played and rushed their content for 6 years straight. They already have everything....

If you basically formaed everything 6 times and have rivens for them, that's not really anyone's obligation to keep cranking that stuff out to satiate you. They actually already are......they're still releasing new weapons and frames and they created a second core gameplay with the Steel path. 

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22 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I don't see your point. After Command intrinsic, specters, Lich and Corpus ships come out, do you think they'll ever look back at this again afterwards? DE has a habit of dumping new projects as quickly as they make them. Hell, we haven't seen a whole lot more from what could've been a great nemesis-like Lich system and all DE is planning is adding more diverse voices down the road.

I see no reason why DE won't leave Necramech dead in the water later.

For a closed beta supporter, you are awfully narrow-minded and lacking of foresight. Try to see Warframe - the game - as a whole package, its direction in story and relationship between the Tenno and factions, how modules are connected now, and how they might be used in the future towards the finale confrontation instead of nitpicking at minuscule emergent gameplay problems. Sit down and relax sometimes to broaden your view, yeah?

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

If you basically formaed everything 6 times and have rivens for them, that's not really anyone's obligation to keep cranking that stuff out to satiate you.

Your posts indicate a pattern of bitterness towards longtime dedicated players. Why? This isn't even about casuals versus tryhards, this is about DE releasing low quality content. Who is being satiated by forced minigame grinds? Who is being satiated by having 99% of their arsenal disabled?

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37 minutes ago, rikimaru6811 said:

For a closed beta supporter, you are awfully narrow-minded and lacking of foresight. Try to see Warframe - the game - as a whole package, its direction in story and relationship between the Tenno and factions, how modules are connected now, and how they might be used in the future towards the finale confrontation instead of nitpicking at minuscule emergent gameplay problems. Sit down and relax sometimes to broaden your view, yeah?

None of what you said is an excuse to create new content, tweak it a little so it isn't janky and broken, and then forgetting about it while it's still in a barebones state.

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35 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Your posts indicate a pattern of bitterness towards longtime dedicated players. Why? This isn't even about casuals versus tryhards, this is about DE releasing low quality content. Who is being satiated by forced minigame grinds? Who is being satiated by having 99% of their arsenal disabled?

Some posts indicate a pattern of bitterness towards progressing the game. Why? What is your criteria for low quality content? Is it opinion based? 

Are you aware some people like diversity in the game and that using your own opinion based language like "forced minigame grinds" has no relevance in a logical discussion? 

Are you expecting DE to say "Oops, we're sorry. We're gonna go ahead and delete the last few major updates because we just realized people hated our forced mini games and corn husks!"

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

delete the last few major updates

I didn't ask for that. Nobody asked for that. Nothing is stopping you from enjoying recent content, nor should it. If you want DE to continue adding new features and modes, then why not simply express that? We obviously want different things from the game, that's fine, no need to be so adversarial.

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14 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Some posts indicate a pattern of bitterness towards progressing the game. Why? What is your criteria for low quality content? Is it opinion based? 

It's funny how the person who is objectively wrong in any given argument always seems to be the first one to outright invoke subjectivity. Why even mention opinion? Oh, because you need it to be about opinion.

In a subtle sort of way, you've just demonstrated that despite your pom-pom waving you know there's a major problem with the way they're doing things.

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28 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

It's funny how the person who is objectively wrong in any given argument always seems to be the first one to outright invoke subjectivity. Why even mention opinion? Oh, because you need it to be about opinion.

In a subtle sort of way, you've just demonstrated that despite your pom-pom waving you know there's a major problem with the way they're doing things.

How can someone be objectively wrong on opinion based arguments? 

The people I argue with want warframe to 1. Stop letting new people get arcanes so they can manipulate new players and make 500 to 1000p off them.

2. Want warframe to revert the past 2 years of changes because they just "feel" like there's too much powercreep and not enough "rules".

3. Want warframe to basically stop doing anything except fixing bugs and/or making necramechs more OP.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

How can someone be objectively wrong on opinion based arguments? 

The people I argue with want warframe to 1. Stop letting new people get arcanes so they can manipulate new players and make 500 to 1000p off them.

2. Want warframe to revert the past 2 years of changes because they just "feel" like there's too much powercreep and not enough "rules".

3. Want warframe to basically stop doing anything except fixing bugs and/or making necramechs more OP.

Subjectivity is a farce. Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean its magic. Even art can be objectively understood, and rated, difficult as it may be to do so accurately. Post modernism is wrong.

Also, that's a lot of poisoning the well and strawmanning you have there. I do not accept your framing.

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

2. Want warframe to revert the past 2 years of changes because they just "feel" like there's too much powercreep and not enough "rules".

I'm definitely in this boat, but you represented the point extremely poorly.

Nobody wants to revert the game back to any past point in time. Nerfs aren't reverting the game. Someone wanting Saryn and Mesa mains to stop trivializing the game for everyone else in the team not playing them isn't them asking for the game to go back to a state of the game when founder packs were a thing.

And despite what you think, powercreep is a real problem. If DE can't bring players down in power, the only way they can go is up which means making the game more needlessly difficult (which ultimately harms casual players or those who don't trade) or implementing new enemies that nobody asked for.

I come from Path of Exile, a game that has some severe powercreep issues and how the devs have responded to it. I know what I'm talking about and I know where Warframe is headed.

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16 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

Subjectivity is a farce. Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean its magic. Even art can be objectively understood, and rated, difficult as it may be to do so accurately. Post modernism is wrong.

Also, that's a lot of poisoning the well and strawmanning you have there. I do not accept your framing.

Except the part where it's not a farce. If someone's argument is "Warframe better do x, and y, or you're gonna die", then that person is literally claiming to know what happens in the future, which is obviously not true in any sense. 

They "feel" warframe shouldn't do certain things, but that's not the same as some magical nostradamus telling warframe to do something or else a meteor is gonna destroy life on earth.

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21 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Except the part where it's not a farce. If someone's argument is "Warframe better do x, and y, or you're gonna die", then that person is literally claiming to know what happens in the future, which is obviously not true in any sense. 

They "feel" warframe shouldn't do certain things, but that's not the same as some magical nostradamus telling warframe to do something or else a meteor is gonna destroy life on earth.

It's not a farce, and yet you do nothing but reframe other people's arguments. You are objectively wrong, and you are dishonest. :)

 

Edited by XaoGarrent
Realized something wasn't quite clear much too late
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Just now, XaoGarrent said:

It's not a farce, and you do nothing but reframe other people's arguments. You are objectively wrong, and you are dishonest. :)

 

Uhm...ok? That's where you're bottoming out? 

Oh here, lemme try too? 

"You're also objectively wrong and you are also dishonest."

See how easy that is? It doesn't mean anything but it's a response I guess. 

What would you like the game to do? Make your demands and voice known.... 

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Uhm...ok? That's where you're bottoming out? 

Oh here, lemme try too? 

"You're also objectively wrong and you are also dishonest."

See how easy that is? It doesn't mean anything but it's a response I guess. 

What would you like the game to do? Make your demands and voice known.... 

Nope, just you. I'm not the one claiming feels before reals here, my dude. I advocate objectivity and critical analysis, you advocate subjectivism and opinion. :)

How about you make an objective argument, instead of invoking opinion. Until then, I have no reason to do anything other than rebuke you on a basic level, because legitimately arguing with unfalsifiable reasoning is fruitless.

Edited by XaoGarrent
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5 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Playing the game and not following streams.

Where am I wrong in what I said, though? Archwings have barely been touched, everyone's holding out hopes for a Railjack update that'll be lukewarm at best, Liches are only getting new voices (maybe a couple new guns). DE is probably focusing most of their resources into the next new hotness.

I don't want to say "I told you so" later on. Do you know people were skeptical about Open Worlds in Warftame because of engine limitation? Yet years later we have 3 now. Can you imagine their faces today?

You are like one of those skeptics. Warframe will get to that point eventually. It's only a matter of time. Railjack will never be abandoned because it's Steve's vision for the future of the game.

Edited by DrivaMain
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18 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

I don't want to say "I told you so" later on. Do you know people were skeptical about Open Worlds in Warftame because of engine limitation? Yet years later we have 3 now. Can you imagine their faces today?

You are like one of those skeptics. Warframe will get to that point eventually. It's only a matter of time. Railjack will never be abandoned because it's Steve's vision for the future of the game.

How many other features were the devs' vision for the future of the game that either never made it or turned out far different than their original intention? Liches are the result of the Kingpin system for example, yet all we got was a boss that has multiple health bars, a lot of grinding, and a handful of weapons. They make terrible and unreliable allies, only existing in missions one time for only a brief moment, and can't be customized in any shape or form.

And now they're finally getting some voices and maybe a couple new weapons. Oh you sure told me so. :P

I bet they had a great vision for Archwing as well. Nothing's come of that in a long time now, and it's mostly good as a mode of transportation.

Edited by Pizzarugi
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I don't share the complaints even one bit. Excluding the fact that i love when games let you pilot mechs, i just see Necramechs simply as another Warframe. To me Heart of Deimos released with 2 frames, Xaku and Voidrig, with the only difference one has all the freedom and movement in the world and the other is a bombing turret on legs. I don't really see the problem people have with them(even for the lore, i don't see how it's an issue. Hello? Sentients ADAPT. That's their thing. It's why they absolutely can't contrast the previously useless mechs, because the previously useless mechs weren't piloted by Void powered operators AND getting back up by Warframes. A previous 1vs1 turned into a 1vs1(3)

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17 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

Nope, just you. I'm not the one claiming feels before reals here, my dude. I advocate objectivity and critical analysis, you advocate subjectivism and opinion. :)

How about you make an objective argument, instead of invoking opinion. Until then, I have no reason to do anything other than rebuke you on a basic level, because legitimately arguing with unfalsifiable reasoning is fruitless.

Exactly. You can't even present an argument. In this thread all you did was state that someone was from a different reality for liking necramechs. 

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On 2020-12-23 at 2:38 PM, Pizzarugi said:

The fact that Archwing, which originally came out with its own exclusive missions, is only considered good for one event and otherwise being a mode of transportation really says something about how viable it is overall. Railjack has more engaging mechanics in space by comparison.

 

I was hoping you would make this point, to which I will rebuttle: the archwing missions are the most consistent way to farm the mods for archwing. So doing the missions improves archwing and archguns used in any other case.

 

On 2020-12-23 at 2:38 PM, Pizzarugi said:

DE has a habit of dumping new projects as quickly as they make them.

Disagree. The opposite is apparent in things like the PoE revamp they did not too long ago. Also they revisited how specter mods are acquired. Also they revisited Wukong when people complained about him. Honestly there are many, many cases of DE going back and changing things. That's one thing I honestly love about this company, they actually listen to people and make changes to the game.

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On 2020-12-23 at 9:14 PM, Tyreaus said:

I don't like the feel that they're (badly) trying to replace Warframes, basically, even if it's an unintentional thing. The lore "additions" effectively shoehorn mechs into the "void-slinging" place Warframes / Operators occupied (see: a few threads asking why Warframes are necessary if Necramechs are also anti-Sentient machines). Likewise, where you'd expect mechs to be, y'know, slower and lumbering and powerful things, they're shoved into an event mission that relies more on quickly and effectively getting from point A to point B (where most use a Fluctus) - y'know, that thing Warframes are renowned for. (Which doesn't just seem like a failed attempt to say "hey Necramechs can do it too!", but also puts mechs in the worst position to highlight their strengths, when you could throw them into a defence mission or untimed exterminate and likely have an absolute blast by comparison)

It's like all the other vehicles got buddy-buddy with the player and were cool with being in their own lane (Archwings for space combat and K-drives for Tony Hawk, for example) while mechs elbow-checked the player into the boards to take over centre stage. For me, it's like, "nah bro, you're supposed to be big, tough, frak-off machines with massive artillery that'd make Michael Bay jealous, not space ninjas. Back off."

That's just me, though.

I'm not sure you understand the lore behind them with the first comment. They were the original Warframes basically. Prototypes. Based on how they established that, I would clearly deduce that they are not trying to replace them. But to talk about that some more, being that they are prototypes, they will excel or be lacking in one way or another compared to their predecessors the Warframes. 

I can't say much about the event however because we don't even have it yet and I haven't watched any videos of it because I like to be surprised. 

I understand though when you say it's in the same lane as Warframes basically, but it would be hard to not make something else Operators can transfer into that aren't in the same lane. That's something a lot of us in the community have been waiting forever for. Honestly they can make a thousand different things in the same lane and I wouldn't mind, just simply because I want more and more things to transfer into. They teased us so hard with the Golden Maw in The War Within and I was so upset that there wasn't anything else I could transfer into besides the Warframes, and now we finally have that. But yeah I don't really see a way they can make things to transfer into that won't seem like and overshadowing or underfoot feature in the same lane.

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3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Exactly. You can't even present an argument. In this thread all you did was state that someone was from a different reality for liking necramechs. 

You can't argue against an unfalsifiable position. That's not a validation of anything you've said, but quite the opposite. You are living a delusion.

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2 hours ago, (NSW)JigsJosh said:

I was hoping you would make this point, to which I will rebuttle: the archwing missions are the most consistent way to farm the mods for archwing. So doing the missions improves archwing and archguns used in any other case.

Just because the missions are a reliable way to grind for mods, it doesn't mean that the Archwing missions are good or isn't lacking in pretty much everything. Once you get the mods, those missions are a ghost town.

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