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Cover System & Grenades


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  Warframe is a great action game.

  But like any current action game, it needs some kind of additions for better combat performance. And just improving the graphics, grind walls and adding new weapons doesn't help much for the new generation.

  I would recommend a system of grenades, which could have a system similar to Kuva Lich's weapons. Or even dropable with some sort of random loot system.  It is a very tactical item, and could have a cooldown time like Lavos skills instead of ammo. BORDERLANDS series is a amazing reference for creative grenades such as elemental ones.

About the cover, enemies have this advantage, and slimmer and more fragile frames would have another method of survival. A buff similar to Xaku's passive would help, deflecting a percentage of projectiles depending on coverage. You could use X-COM as a reference, with a medium and full cover system and a simple UI showing shields like.

Would have mods to improve that percentage of cover.

Not a real advance to Warframe but for sure a quality of life and lore friendly addition.

 

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DE has already said for years that they want to leave grenades to be frame powers. If you really want one, you can subsume vauban. Crouching and cowering for a sec behind a box might be useful in the first few days of gameplay, but eventually you learn to move or get a frame that can sit there and take it if you're bad at the movement thing. Makes sense in a slow tacti shooter or when finite enemies charge from one general direction. But none of the given game examples are structured encounter wise like WF. I'm sure some mechanic ideas are well intentioned or for rule of cool. But like Wall stick or wall melee. How useful is it really.

Edited by Firetempest
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33 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

mass effect 2 style cover system would be nice but that would need enemies to be an actual threat warranting a need for cover, see how those go hand in hand

Yeah I love Mass Effect system! 

I hope they make something similar to our companions too on the next update playing with the crew

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24 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

DE has already said for years that they want to leave grenades to be frame powers. If you really want one, you can subsume vauban. Crouching and cowering for a sec behind a box might be useful in the first few days of gameplay, but eventually you learn to move or get a frame that can sit there and take it if you're bad at the movement thing. Makes sense in a slow tacti shooter or when finite enemies charge from one general direction. But none of the given game examples are structured encounter wise like WF. I'm sure some mechanic ideas are well intentioned or for rule of cool. But like Wall stick or wall melee. How useful is it really.

Use grenades as frame powers only makes sense on more technical frames. Like Vauban or Protea. the most close to that for sure is Vauban third skill.

All the enemies can throw grenades on us, and we have infested bazookas at our arsenal. Why not a simple grenade? XD

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47 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

mass effect 2 style cover system

I'd actually say go for an Andromeda-like system, if anything. No button prompts, no stickiness, just automatically shifting into the appropriate posture when you get close to a valid "cover object".

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15 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I'd actually say go for an Andromeda-like system, if anything. No button prompts, no stickiness, just automatically shifting into the appropriate posture when you get close to a valid "cover object".

can't say i was unfortunate enough to play andromeda :D

smooth cover system sounds good though

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23 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

can't say i was unfortunate enough to play andromeda :D

smooth cover system sounds good though

In terms of moment-to-moment combat, it's arguably the best in the series. It's a nice balance between a cover shooter and the boost-focused shooters that were popular early in the last generation (like Advanced Warfare).

Narratively, it's indisputably the worst.

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Pointless.

We are already really powerful and a cover system wouldn't do anything even for squishies.

Simply because enemies come from all angles all the time. And also we usually have cc powers or the operator for noobs to stay alive.

Also xaku's passive is crap. Don't want to see that anywhere near an other frame.

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A cover system simply doesn't fit into the hoard shooter that Warframe is.  While you're sitting there hiding behind a wall trying to headshot some heavy either a) 4 melee units like a butcher is going to run up and clock you or b) your kill rate is so slow you won't get life support, drops, whatever.  Or both. 

Warframe's bread and butter is the amazing movement.  Why anyone would want to shackle their frame with "cover" makes no sense to me.  Just move like the game intends and you have no problems avoiding damage.

As far as grenades go I'll take a hard pass on that too.  They are great in borderlands but that is also a game where my character has one power.  In Warframe having four powers always more than compensates for *not* having grenades.  Hell, even Boarderlands takes away the grenades to give Zane access to a second power.

Edited by (PSN)Agent_CHAR
typo
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6 hours ago, --LENGEY-- said:

  

About the cover, enemies have this advantage, and slimmer and more fragile frames would have another method of survival. A buff similar to Xaku's passive would help, deflecting a percentage of projectiles depending on coverage. You could use X-COM as a reference, with a medium and full cover system and a simple UI showing shields like.

Would have mods to improve that percentage of cover.

Not a real advance to Warframe but for sure a quality of life and lore friendly addition.

 

What you speak of, is turning Warframe into a skill-based game. Here is a news flash for you, but in Warframe your skill does not matter. Your gear does. Either you bring the right weapons, mods, and frame and instantly win, or you don't and slowly lose

Shoehorning in a cover system without a complete, and I do mean complete rebalance of literally everything in the game (46 playable characters, a thousand weapons, about 70 enemies spread across six factions, mods, the very core gameplay loop itself) won't do much, because frames like Saryn and Mesa would still exist

And DE has shown no intention of making Warframe skill-based outside of a couple isolated boss fights (Nihil and Exploiter). They've just doubled down on it. Grind to win, is the future

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Whilst fast-paced and cover shooter aren't mutually exclusive terms - just look at Vanquish - they're certainly a correlation between cover and slow speed, meaning that they generally don't get along - just look at Vanquish (The game literally grades you better if you don't use cover).

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10 hours ago, --LENGEY-- said:

Not a real advance to Warframe but for sure a quality of life and lore friendly addition.

yeah, no thanks.

Warframe leans more towards games like DOOM, where mobility is key to success. the reason you hide behind cover in other games is because you can't bullet jump 50ft in the air and then double jump. seriously, try running a steel path mission just hiding behind walls, and you can tell me how long it takes for you to run out of revives and fail. you'd be shocked how many doorways and walls don't actually block jack squat, and they aren't really needed to, because you're not supposed to use them as cover. the ninja-like mobility is what makes warframe stand out form a lot of other games, and is arguably a core part of the game's identity. if someone asks "what can you do in warframe that i can't do in X?" you can reply with "you can bullet jump and flip around 50ft in the air while throwing toxic-laced knives at people".

same with grenades, you want to flush people out from cover, that's what CC powers are for, and many of them ignore the objects and walls that enemies take cover behind, which makes them even better than regular grenades. if you want to stick to cover and throw grenades, there's plenty games that do that, but warframe's the only one I can think of where you can flip around like a squirrel on red bull with laserguns and nunchuks. it's unique, and it should stay that way.

 

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I am going to focus a discussion with the OP regarding these two points.

1. A cover based system

While i am a huge fan of ME and many titles that use such a thing. It doesn't work here and would require such an overhaul of the entire game to make it relevant that it would cause a content mass delay and wouldn't ever happen. Warframe is actually well known for its amazing movement system. A cover based system would slow it down and undo alot of their movement work.

Unless you purposely sit in a steel path survival for atleast an hour or so, enemies never come close to making a dent in almost all builds. Warframe is afterall a power fantasy grinder / collection game.

2. Grenades this topic has already been discussed by the the devs. But to clear it up abit more if say they added grenades to our loadouts that we could mass create they would ither be too op when spammed and nerfed until its a useless item or too useless to kill anything and end up in the same vein as things like Clem Clones or the orbital damage.

 

Edited by (PSN)Mofojokers
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Yeah I agree.

2 hours ago, (PSN)shadowraith_666 said:

A cover system would not work with warframes enemy spawn mechanics since most enemies can spawn from multiple entrances while some can just teleport into the map (syndicate assassins, stalker, grustag 3, Zanuka and sentient), most of the large map sections have 4+ entrances.

Your right, that would sucks.

They should rework all enemy spawn before even think on that lol

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ey people that like grenades, why dont you suggest it for a helminth ability, it does not make sense to equip it as a secondary  as we already have grenade like throwable weapons and using from the item wheel seems uncomfortable, just make it a helminth ability that does blast plus element base off energy color or something.

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