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Whipclaw line of sight checks report false negatives in level geometry


PublikDomain
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23 hours ago, [DE]Ruu said:

Khora enthusiasts!

As you know, we made a change to Khora’s Whipclaw in Update 29.5: Deimos Arcana that added a Line of Sight (LoS) check to its radial damage (AoE).

Since then failure to damage enemies within LoS has been reported, which we cover below in this brief overview of what changed, what we know, and next steps.

 

What was changed and why:

We made a change to Khora’s Whipclaw that added a minimal Line of Sight (LoS) check on its radial damage (AoE). Meaning enemies within line of sight of the explosion are damaged/affected, while those outside of it are not. The change was made to encourage a more active play style with Whipclaw. Moving away from whipping at walls to damage enemies on the other side with more incentive to 'seek and snipe.'

 

What is the issue with the change:

As has been reported (and is explained in the next section), certain conditions have made it difficult (if not impossible) to land AoE damage with enemies in LoS. In other words, enemies that don’t appear to be out of LoS of Whiclaw’s attack take no damage. Which no doubt has caused some frustration while using the ability.

 

What we know has been reported and confirmed about the change:

Thanks to your thorough reporting and investigation skills (thank you!), we were able to deduce and confirm through internal testing that certain environment elements seem to completely block Whipclaw’s AoE damage. Specifically:

  • Small objects blocking line of sight (railings, small rocks, trees)
  • Geometry (Floor/Wall detailed geometry and complex stair/slope)
  • Slopes/vertical terrain variations (For example: Casting Whipclaw at the base of stairs to damage enemies at the top of stairs)

 

What’s next:

We are reviewing our options to address the obvious gaps listed above. We’ve also noticed that in addition to Whipclaw, Bonewidow’s Ironbridge charge attack projectile and Primary Tombfinger Kitguns are equally affected. They are also being looked at.

We’ll update this thread once we have a solution and possible fixes. Thanks for reading!

This is great news!

I've definitely had issues with other LoS-requiring attacks/abilities getting blocked by negligible bits of terrain as well. Melee attacks primarily.

If LoS mechanics are changed overall for Whipclaw and such (e.g. instead of drawing a single line between the AoE "origin" and the target, having multiple "origins" around the true center of the AoE that do LoS checks as well), is there any chance this could be applied to melee attacks in general? It's a bit annoying when a large melee weapon physically passes through an enemy but deals 0 damage because there's a tiny obstacle in between.

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Nice to see this is getting addressed.  Also with AOE weapons like tombfinger kitguns.  

It does sound like a large undertaking from a development standpoint.  So may I suggest a punch through mechanic over LOS for AOE damage.  Such so there is no wall punch through but every small piece of geometry doesn't stop the damage from happening. 

I have a tombfinger and have noticed it not doing much when blasting at enemies making the quick fire option seem superior somehow.

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5 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

The only difference with Khora is the level she can work at; at lower levels frames like Saryns and Volts are much more effective at killing large swathes of enemies without moving around. ESO, for example: a Khora can catch up and surpass a Saryn or a Volt in terms of damage dealt, but only if they get to the higher waves where the Saryns and Volts drop off and can't oneshot the map from one position. The only reason Khora got picked up for Steel Path farming is for that crazy damage output - which is completely unchanged by the LoS. She still has a crazy damage output, it's just that it occasionally doesn't work and you have to push the button a second time. That's all that the LoS does.

If DE could produce a robust, reliable LoS check that only blocks LoS when it actually should then sure, that'd be fine if it were used elsewhere. I don't really think that's doable without a lot of complexity and/or a lot of work, so I'm skeptical about them trying to salvage it. But even if they could, it still wouldn't address Khora's damage output nor would it really address sewer camping. With a perfect LoS that only prevents hitting through walls without any annoying side-effects, sewer camping groups could just get some Limbos and camp out in the open. No walls, no problem. This is really what I was getting at, there are so many other ways to get around a LoS restriction that why bother? The people that want to play that way are going to do so. You can't prevent that by attacking their tools, you can only reduce it by making that play unnecessary to begin with. It's the underlying design of the game which promotes sitting around doing nothing for hours on end.

The level is what matters for all. Saryn and Volt shines up to midgame, while Khora shines at low and high game, with a dip in ESO. I think the important part that DE tries to solve is that Khora wont be able to cheese through walls behind complete safety. She'll need to peek out in order to atleast hit some target straight on for it to spread throughout the dome.

And if the setup suddenly needs to include a Limbo then the fix has been successful, since you'll no longer camp behind walls or in a sewer, you instead start to work as a team. It would make the Limbo actively involved in the group. And activity is what they want. Now obviously the game needs to change elsewhere too, but this is a good start.

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2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think the important part that DE tries to solve is that Khora wont be able to cheese through walls behind complete safety.

And I think that doing so is a losing battle. Even if DE makes the most perfect LoS system ever devised and rocks the game development community with their genius new technique... Khora will still be able to be played passively. Pop Strangledome, whip around a corner, done. Add LoS to Strangledome so it can't grab anything? If anything even really changes, players will just use idk Vortex. Do the same to Vortex? Players will use Larva. Nerf Larva even harder? Players will use Resonator. Nerf Resonator? Players will make themselves invincible using stuff like Limbo so it doesn't matter what the enemies are doing. Etc, etc. There's no way to prevent this; if DE creates incentives for people to play passively then there are going to be people who play passively. Changing the tools they use might shift things around, but it doesn't even begin to solve the problem. The only people actually affected are players like me who don't even want to play that way.

ETA: And DE actually addressed the underlying problem in this case by changing the Steel Essence farm. There's no benefit to playing long, high level mob grinder endurance missions, so Khora doesn't have that kind of use case anymore. That actually addressed the issue with passive play by making passive play not the most optimal way to go.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And if the setup suddenly needs to include a Limbo then the fix has been successful

I don't know if I agree, what's different? Whether a new tool is required or the location changes doesn't change that it's still the same passive play.

Edited by PublikDomain
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If DE keeps this type of behavior up I may just tone down my complaining. 

Prob not tho..

So long as they still continue to find time to nerf when so much needs buffed/fixed, ill keep at it. 

But thanks for listening to us either way!

Edited by parttimeparty
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Since that update 17 i completely stopped playing khora i just can't do it hurt my eyes seeing this issues frame is broken and no longer enjoyable/fun to use it hurts even more given how much work i have put into it (8 forma on frame including aura 8 forma Venari bunch of cosmetics) and its not frame i main even. All i want is functional warframe i once used to solo clear syndicate mission/kuva survivals/excavations while having fun at it.

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12 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

And I think that doing so is a losing battle. Even if DE makes the most perfect LoS system ever devised and rocks the game development community with their genius new technique... Khora will still be able to be played passively. Pop Strangledome, whip around a corner, done. Add LoS to Strangledome so it can't grab anything? If anything even really changes, players will just use idk Vortex. Do the same to Vortex? Players will use Larva. Nerf Larva even harder? Players will use Resonator. Nerf Resonator? Players will make themselves invincible using stuff like Limbo so it doesn't matter what the enemies are doing. Etc, etc. There's no way to prevent this; if DE creates incentives for people to play passively then there are going to be people who play passively. Changing the tools they use might shift things around, but it doesn't even begin to solve the problem. The only people actually affected are players like me who don't even want to play that way.

ETA: And DE actually addressed the underlying problem in this case by changing the Steel Essence farm. There's no benefit to playing long, high level mob grinder endurance missions, so Khora doesn't have that kind of use case anymore. That actually addressed the issue with passive play by making passive play not the most optimal way to go.

I don't know if I agree, what's different? Whether a new tool is required or the location changes doesn't change that it's still the same passive play.

I'm not sure we share the same view on passivity. A Limbo for instance can only complete 1 single mission type in the game passively, or well semi-passively and that is mobile defense. Everything else needs active gameplay in order to kill. Just as Vortex and Larva wont be solutions on their own either. There isnt much difference playing a kill based endless mission as Inaros or Limbo, since both of them will be near immortal and will need to use weapons actively to kill. One simply choses his battleground, the other does what he pleases since he brings his massive defenses with him passively.

And yeah, Khora was kinda adressed with the changes to how steel essence is obtained, but I dont see why they should stop there when the game severely needs rebalancing and Khora is the highest damage frame we have that also comes with such range.

And what changes? That you actually need an extra tool that has to be played actively, more actively in some cases than others. It isnt like Khora herself suddenly gets access to stasis and cata just because whipclaw gets a LoS requirement and Khora no longer is able to cheese through walls. Not that Cataclysm+Stasis will ever replace wall or sewer cheese since enemies will not gather up the same way versus cata, they'll stop and shoot, and stasis itself will run the risk of overriding dome grapple, meaning no spread damage to those targets on whip hits, though that is more a thing that depends on the size of things active in play.

In the end, the new LoS requirement simply counters actual AFK play mostly, since you cannot find a 1 way spot and hit up a shady macro that does the job, cos you arent 100% sure that all enemies will get hit and spread like before. Which means less damage throughout the domes, meaning more whip uses needed, meaning more time for the enemies to get to your position where the whip wont have any coverage.

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4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm not sure we share the same view on passivity.

I don't know if it's that hard to define? A passive player sits around at the same place without moving much or engaging with enemies and can still succeed at a mission. This mostly comes up in regards to Survival, where the player can camp in one room to funnel enemies and drop into one place, staying as long as they like for large rewards with minimal interaction. As DE called it, "whipping at walls". An active player roams around and engages with enemies instead of hiding behind a corner.

ETA: So to get back to Limbo's involvement, passive is passive. Whether you're inside a room being passive or out in a field being passive doesn't really matter. You're still being passive. Plenty of tools exist that can support passive play, and destroying those tools at the detriment of legitimate users is a crummy idea. Especially if destroying those tools leaves them still able to support passive play, like in this case.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

but I dont see why they should stop there when the game severely needs rebalancing and Khora is the highest damage frame we have that also comes with such range.

Well, her damage wasn't addressed. She deals the same damage as before, it's just that sometimes you have to cast twice. Nothing has been changed except that she's now more annoying to play in an active playstyle. Her damage should be addressed, hence my calls for the LoS to be replaced with a damage falloff. Personally, I want the LoS thrown into the sun and a 90-100% damage falloff instead.

https://media.tenor.com/images/b52d5c82b2c74e5770596485565b4803/tenor.gif

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

In the end, the new LoS requirement simply counters actual AFK play mostly, since you cannot find a 1 way spot and hit up a shady macro that does the job, cos you arent 100% sure that all enemies will get hit and spread like before. Which means less damage throughout the domes, meaning more whip uses needed, meaning more time for the enemies to get to your position where the whip wont have any coverage.

Except it doesn't, the LoS doesn't counter anything. You can do literally the exact same thing as before; nothing about Khora's potential for passive play has been changed.

giphy.gif

This was recorded post-LoS as a really simple example of what you can still do with Khora in regards to passive play. The LoS ignores movable doors and Strangledome ignores everything, CCs, and redirects aggro. Plop down a Strangledome to keep the enemies busy and put your whip on a timer, and you're done. You don't have to cast any more often than before either, because Whipclaw deals enough damage that even at SP levels you can still one-shot enemies through your dome. And if you can't, then you can two-shot or three-shot them. It doesn't really mean anything in today's game either way, since Dispensary exists and can be put on any Warframe giving you infinite energy, health, and ammo passively and for free. You can run an energy-positive Khora that just presses 3/4/1/1/1 on a timer and plop her down wherever you like. You could do it before, you can do it now, and you can do it with other frames too.

The only thing the LoS actually does is harm active play that doesn't rely on using Strangledome to pass damage, because that's the only place where the LoS actually comes into play.

Edited by PublikDomain
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On 2021-01-27 at 1:01 PM, [DE]Ruu said:

Khora enthusiasts!

As you know, we made a change to Khora’s Whipclaw in Update 29.5: Deimos Arcana that added a Line of Sight (LoS) check to its radial damage (AoE).

Since then failure to damage enemies within LoS has been reported, which we cover below in this brief overview of what changed, what we know, and next steps.

 

What was changed and why:

We made a change to Khora’s Whipclaw that added a minimal Line of Sight (LoS) check on its radial damage (AoE). Meaning enemies within line of sight of the explosion are damaged/affected, while those outside of it are not. The change was made to encourage a more active play style with Whipclaw. Moving away from whipping at walls to damage enemies on the other side with more incentive to 'seek and snipe.'

 

What is the issue with the change:

As has been reported (and is explained in the next section), certain conditions have made it difficult (if not impossible) to land AoE damage with enemies in LoS. In other words, enemies that don’t appear to be out of LoS of Whiclaw’s attack take no damage. Which no doubt has caused some frustration while using the ability.

 

What we know has been reported and confirmed about the change:

Thanks to your thorough reporting and investigation skills (thank you!), we were able to deduce and confirm through internal testing that certain environment elements seem to completely block Whipclaw’s AoE damage. Specifically:

  • Small objects blocking line of sight (railings, small rocks, trees)
  • Geometry (Floor/Wall detailed geometry and complex stair/slope)
  • Slopes/vertical terrain variations (For example: Casting Whipclaw at the base of stairs to damage enemies at the top of stairs)

 

What’s next:

We are reviewing our options to address the obvious gaps listed above. We’ve also noticed that in addition to Whipclaw, Bonewidow’s Ironbridge charge attack projectile and Primary Tombfinger Kitguns are equally affected. They are also being looked at.

We’ll update this thread once we have a solution and possible fixes. Thanks for reading!

YESSSSSSSSS :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

I hope you'll be looking into LoS-checks in general, as they break everything that relies on them. Volt's one for example has been broken for years (at least it used to be before I stopped playing him). The Kuva Chakkhur is affected as well.

 

If the LoS relies on the collision, I'd suggest to smooth these out. Having visual details in the geometry is great, but realising them physically quite literally hinders gameplay. This way we'd not only get rid of that LoS issue (though I'm against applying LoS-checks to Khora per se), but also we'd be able to traverse through missions without getting stuck on walls/edges/corners, having to do a step backwards or to the side to be able to move forward again.

And while we'ret at it, why not look into and fix the parcour mechanics? What a life it would be if the game could properly recognise if the player intends to do a wall run vs wall jump, or if your fluid movement through the mission wasn't suddenly interrupted by an extremely exaggerated and seemingly eternal climb animation over a small obstacle that you were just jumping / gliding over... Maybe I'll open a thread adressing this at some point in the future.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Hello again, Khora Enthusiasts!

The time has come to update you all on Khora's Whipclaw changes that you've all been patiently waiting for. In Update 30: Call of the Tempestarii, Khora's Whipclaw line of sight checks will be a little more generous.

No longer will small rocks or detailed floor geometry block Whipclaw’s explosion! Enemies that hide behind cover will not be hit by Whipclaw if you hit the front of the object that enemies are hunkering down behind. However, if you strategically hit beside them, you will vanquish your foes.

It was mentioned that we would review Tombfinger primary kitgun and Bonewidow's Ironbride. Currently this line of sight change is only for Khora's Whipclaw for the time being and we will update further if we feel that it needs to change.

We look forward to you all getting your hands on the changes.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Ruu said:

We look forward to you all getting your hands on the changes.

Thank you thank you thank you! 😸 Looking forward to it 💖

1 hour ago, [DE]Ruu said:

Currently this line of sight change is only for Khora's Whipclaw for the time being

Thank you for clarifying.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Ruu said:

Hello again, Khora Enthusiasts!

The time has come to update you all on Khora's Whipclaw changes that you've all been patiently waiting for. In Update 30: Call of the Tempestarii, Khora's Whipclaw line of sight checks will be a little more generous.

No longer will small rocks or detailed floor geometry block Whipclaw’s explosion! Enemies that hide behind cover will not be hit by Whipclaw if you hit the front of the object that enemies are hunkering down behind. However, if you strategically hit beside them, you will vanquish your foes.

It was mentioned that we would review Tombfinger primary kitgun and Bonewidow's Ironbride. Currently this line of sight change is only for Khora's Whipclaw for the time being and we will update further if we feel that it needs to change.

We look forward to you all getting your hands on the changes.

Could you provide any specifics on how the check now works so I can test this more accurately once it's live? Does it move the origin of the check, is different floor geometry used, etc.? For example, "if you strategically hit beside them, you will vanquish your foes" - what does this mean differently to what we can already do now with the current faulty LoS check?

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Posted (edited)

The change to the LoS is now live. I'll be able to get ingame in maybe 6-ish hours, so in the meantime if anyone who can play now wants to give it a go please leave any feedback or insights! I'll do a deep dive on the mechanics around the areas shown in my example gifs and produce new ones where necessary. I'll also update the OP with any new information and remaining bugs once it's been tested.

I'd also like to know if anyone can check @Berzerkules report about the LoS and ragdolled enemies and see if it's still relevant/unfixed.

To reproduce the bug you need to get enemies ragdolled and dragged into a wall, corner, or other gap by Strangledome. They should then be unable to be hit by Whipclaw at all, even point blank and directly on them.

Edited by PublikDomain
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Hello fellow Khora enthusiasts! Allow me to chime in on the following:

4 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

The change to the LoS is now live. I'll be able to get ingame in maybe 6-ish hours, so in the meantime if anyone who can play now wants to give it a go please leave any feedback or insights! I'll do a deep dive on the mechanics around the areas shown in my example gifs and produce new ones where necessary. I'll also update the OP with any new information and remaining bugs once it's been tested.

I'd also like to know if anyone can check @Berzerkules report about the LoS and ragdolled enemies and see if it's still relevant/unfixed.

To reproduce the bug you need to get enemies ragdolled and dragged into a wall, corner, or other gap by Strangledome. They should then be unable to be hit by Whipclaw at all, even point blank and directly on them.

First off, I'd like to send a sincere thank you to @[DE]Ruu for looking into this issue hence sofar, as well as anyone else on the Team at Digital Extremes who has been made aware of the Line of Sight issues Khora has been facing since Deimos Arcana. Having followed this thread since the beginning, I am also very familiar with Khora mechanics. Kudos to @PublikDomain for urging discussion on this issue, while also acknowledging that these below issues also extend beyond just her, to Tombfinger Primary and Bonewidow's Ironbride.

I figured now was as good a time as any to share and contribute: Quality Assurance is something I am very passionate about. I have several Khora enthusiasts testing the change as we speak. 

Initial reports are mostly good! This is a net positive change, and is noticeable. I'll dive in a bit myself, and PublikDomain can delve in deeper in a few hours once they can get back in-game.

We have been able to test the scenario that @Berzerkules demonstrated ragdolled enemies not being dealt damage if they are not dragged fully back to the Strangledome vertice they were grabbed by. Here's an example of this being addressed, tested post-adjustment:

https://imgur.com/a/WG35SW3

Others please feel free to test this as well-- For the time being, I see this as functioning. 

Where we first currently run into some inconsistencies, are slopes and slants. Here's an example of a slope in the Simulacrum oddly blocking Whipclaw, despite being aimed slightly above the ramp, and then a little below the top of the ramp:

https://imgur.com/a/zyg6XLz 

This does seem to be quite generous however in some cases, as seen on this Corpus Ship staircase:

https://imgur.com/a/6UHWFnI

Additionally, all Allies and Companions can nearly completely block Whipclaw, and will cut it short in travel distance. This has been the case since Khora's introduction to WARFRAME, but this has been unfortunately further exemplified due to this introduction of Whipclaw's Line of Sight check. 

Here's an example of Venari standing in the way:

https://imgur.com/a/3DsIw5f

And here's me, in the same manner:

https://imgur.com/a/bT38Pzt

As you can see from the footage, there are some residual openings that occur allowing some damage to pass around-- but this will stop Whipclaw cold as if it were a wall, which is one of the notes [DE]Ruu mentions will still stop the ability. With 4 total friendly Tenno and an equal number of Companions and Venari jumping around, possible Kuva Liches/On Call Crew Members and Specters, this can be quite problematic with everyone moving through hallways or together on the same objective, leading to situations where Whipclaw will be almost entirely prevented from dealing damage where expected.

I would implore the whole Team at Digital Extremes to also give Khora a try post change, noting the two main areas I see currently for slight further adjustment: ramps/slopes, as well as Allies and Companions blocking Whipclaw. She is a wonderful Warframe, and like all other frames, deserves to be in a comfortable spot for many Tenno to enjoy. 

That's all for now, from my side. Thank you for reading.

Edited by GhostlyMire
adjusted imgur link for embedding.
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First impression from my brief testing (can't handle any more of these Void Storms, already giving me a headache), Khora is in a much better place. On the Corpus Ship tileset, at least, the LoS only failed once. It wasn't an egregious failure, so while I have footage I'm not gonna bother making it into a gif. At least, not today. So kudos for that, DE.

Like @GhostlyMire brings up, removing allies from Whipclaw's targeting would be a nice further change.

I'll spread my continued testing on other tilesets out over the week.

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@GhostlyMire the slope issue could be due to DE using a spherecast, which you can think of like a ball being sent out, triggering the whipclaw radius where it first hits geometry. Should be fixed by making the initial collision-check a raycast instead. If it's already using a raycast then the issue is likely down to the raycast being sent from khora and not the camera, causing weird interactions with line of sight.

As for colliding with teammates, that should hopefully be an easy fix; simply remove the interaction between ally collision layers and whipclaw's sphere-/ray-cast(target check) and sphere overlap (radius check).

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4 hours ago, Arsonistic said:

@GhostlyMire the slope issue could be due to DE using a spherecast, which you can think of like a ball being sent out, triggering the whipclaw radius where it first hits geometry. Should be fixed by making the initial collision-check a raycast instead. If it's already using a raycast then the issue is likely down to the raycast being sent from khora and not the camera, causing weird interactions with line of sight.

Oh, no, they didn't actually do that did they? I'll need to test...

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Posted (edited)

I haven't had a whole lot of free time this week to play, but from what I did play the LoS seems to be more or less unnoticeable. It seems to work as you'd expect it, blocking LoS around large walls, terrain features, or obstacles, and it doesn't show up as false negatives. It's gone from a failure of some sort every 30-90 seconds to a minor failure every hour or so, and only if I can catch it. Usually it's in the form of one enemy not dying out of a group because of their specific positioning.

Unless @GhostlyMire has anything to add from their testing, this bug seems well enough suppressed. I haven't yet had a chance to look into @Arsonistic's comment about targeting, but if that shows up as a bug it'll be in a new report.

I'd like to thank @[DE]Ruu and the other DE staff that worked on this issue for taking the time to get this resolved. Rolling this out to other systems like Bonewidow, etc. or addressing those in another way is the next step but beyond the scope of this report.

https://c.tenor.com/SdaOLzuLxHcAAAAj/party-party-popper.gif

Edited by PublikDomain
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I don't know if this problem existed prior to the recent changes, but there are issues with Mite Raknoids in Orb Vallis. They can very often not be damaged at all by whipclaw, but I can't determine a pattern to it. When they're unalerted and hiding in the ground they can be hit, but when they're alerted and running around, they very often (but not always) can't. It doesn't seem to be an issue with Venari or other pets blocking or such, so I'm not sure what is happening.

Also, alert beacons put up by Corpus units can't be damaged at all (could be by design, but it feels illogical).

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Hello again! 

On 2021-04-14 at 6:20 AM, Arsonistic said:

@GhostlyMire the slope issue could be due to DE using a spherecast, which you can think of like a ball being sent out, triggering the whipclaw radius where it first hits geometry. Should be fixed by making the initial collision-check a raycast instead. If it's already using a raycast then the issue is likely down to the raycast being sent from khora and not the camera, causing weird interactions with line of sight.

As for colliding with teammates, that should hopefully be an easy fix; simply remove the interaction between ally collision layers and whipclaw's sphere-/ray-cast(target check) and sphere overlap (radius check).

 

20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Unless @GhostlyMire has anything to add from their testing, this bug seems well enough suppressed. I haven't yet had a chance to look into @Arsonistic's comment about targeting, but if that shows up as a bug it'll be in a new report.

I appreciate these additional insights.

From my initial post, I have had more testing done across those willing to test Khora's Whipclaw with me, which is a group of almost ten friendly Tenno-- including myself. Slopes can either be quite generous as in Corpus Ship, or oddly restrictive such as the central one in the Ballroom Simulacrum. In terms of using Line of Sight, I would hope that it uses a raycast! Minimizing false negatives as much as possible is the goal.

Allies blocking Whipclaw almost entirely would be my target objective for the team at Digital Extremes to have Whipclaw to see any further change.

This is quite difficult to cleanly test for false negatives in geometry as in the most realistic circumstances, you will snag Whipclaw on an ally or friendly Companion quickly jumping past you. Due to Khora's nature of holding down areas with Strangledome and moving around to adjust Line of Sight as needed, it makes for quite a visible property with several allies also doing the same. Again, this has been the case since she was introduced, but has become more visible due to the added LoS check to Whipclaw. Since Khora's gameplay loop involves often using Whipclaw in many circumstances, it ultimately remains important that the Ability feels good for Tenno to use.

On behalf of all the Khora enthusiasts who tested with me this week, the ability indeed feels considerably better in the current build (Update 30.0.5). With the minor adjustments mentioned above on further fine tuning Whipclaw's Line of Sight check, it is good to see Khora getting attention towards getting her in feel-good shape again especially as her Prime self approaches arrival in due time.

It is a pleasure to report on one of my favorite Warframes with not just my results, but with a culmination of Tenno I know can also contribute with detailed observations.

Thank you for reading.

Edited by GhostlyMire
additional formatting for legibility.
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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I did want to chime back in and report something that might be worth investigating about the LoS. I didn't get a good clip of it happening, but I'll try and explain what might have been going on.

https://i.imgur.com/MDoZQfW.png

I was on the Void tileset and placed a Strangledome (pink). This was on the two-layer circular room with the waterfall lift on the side and the tree in the middle. I was on the second floor around one of the death orbs, with the curved side hallway. A Heavy Gunner (red HG) in a side hallway got grabbed and dragged towards the dome, and was pinned against the wall. I couldn't hit it when whipping through the doorway. I never saw the Heavy Gunner visually, just knew it was there from my map, the sounds, and the damage ticks. Walking in the hallway and whipping against the wall let me hit it. This happened a second time, with the same results, but this time a Lancer also ran in and was grabbed. The Lancer was actually visible before being grabbed, and after it went past the doorway I whipped and they both got hit as expected.

Since we didn't get a technical explanation of how Whipclaw's LoS now works, I can only guess that it's some form of LoS protection like on Excalibur. The bug was likely a combination of two: I never had LoS to start LoS protection, and the enemy being ragdolled into a wall couldn't be hit by the bare explosion.

This scenario is probably a lot more common for more passive playstyles which rely on the dome. If it's taken this long to show up it probably isn't all that big of a deal, but I did want to report it.

Edit: I do have a clip of the second instance I mentioned, but I don't know if it's clear enough. I'll have to check it once I get a chance. Busy week.

Edited by PublikDomain
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