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SUGGESTION - Portable Armory


Rovaeden

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SUGGESTION - Portable Armory

Gear Item that allows the armory to be dropped into a mission once every 10 minutes.
Players may use portable Armory to swap weapons and warframes during a mission.

 

On many occasions I have joined a random group and wished I could chose a different frame that brought better synergy with the group I was with. My only option was to leave group, swap to that frame and hope to get a similar group upon rejoining the mission - which never happens.

 

*edit*

I think I know how this could work.

Kinda like Specters, you have a gear item in which you can save a few extra loadouts, say three. So when you load into a mission, the game already has cached what your extra loadouts are, so you don't need to connect back to DE servers.
In mission, you can hit the gear wheel and press the armory item which opens a fly out menu and you chose which loadout you want.. perhaps there is a slot for up to three frames, another slot for up to three primaries, another for secondaries and another for melee for instance.
Upon choosing to swap one or all slots, the item goes on cooldown for 10 - 20 min or its a once per mission item.
I imagine this could work without too much extra resource cost.

@[DE]ScottP, @[DE]Rebecca, @[DE]Steve, over to you. Whatcha think?

 

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2 hours ago, Rovaeden said:

My only option

This is genuinely one of the few times when I will point out that recruiting exists for exactly this reason.

On the other hand, the reason we don't have a function like that is because of the peer-to-peer connection method we have for playing. It creates a session that only updates the servers when the players re-connect to them after the end of the mission (hence why all of those players got trade-banned for farming too much Steel Essence in single sessions, because the automatic detection was set to auto-ban after a set amount that DE thought would be unlikely to achieve, and is triggered only when the player leaves the session and rejoins the general servers). What would enable this is for Warframe to switch entirely, all underlying net-code and all the money, time and programming it would take, to centralised server-hosted gaming instead of peer-to-peer. Having all players running on that system would allow for hot-swapping gear at pretty much any point mid-mission, allowing for DE's version of balance.

Sadly, that whole debate of dedicated servers vs peer-to-peer is a massive trigger here on the Forums... So let's not get into it.

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On 2021-01-02 at 12:40 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Sadly, that whole debate of dedicated servers vs peer-to-peer is a massive trigger here on the Forums... So let's not get into it.

 

Nah. Lets get into it.
You reminded me, this is one of my major irritations with Warframe.

Thanks for that.
Off to create a new topic. Hope you'll drop by. :)

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On 2021-01-02 at 11:10 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

the reason we don't have a function like that is because of the peer-to-peer connection method we have for playing

If we don't wanna make it work yes that can be an excuse, lemme put it this way for ya, we drop the said armory ,change our gear and at this point the player that changed gear is connected to the server data changed and then reconnected to the group it started with, this can easily be done, how do i know? because i already have done it.

i disconnected myself from my team by pulling my internet cord got to orbiter quickly changed my frame and then game gave me the "would you like to reconnect with ur team?" option and when i reconnected i had all my stuff and i changed my warframe and weapons.

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41 minutes ago, Xikto said:

i disconnected myself from my team by pulling my internet cord got to orbiter quickly changed my frame and then game gave me the "would you like to reconnect with ur team?" option and when i reconnected i had all my stuff and i changed my warframe and weapons.

This, my friend, is what's called an exploit. Players used to do this a lot to get extra rewards on events, they got banned for it.

42 minutes ago, Xikto said:

the player that changed gear is connected to the server data changed and then reconnected to the group

And when this is done by the host, what is this called? A Host Migration. Up to three other players that are connected to them are suddenly disconnected and have to either re-form the group through Host Migration, or fail to and lose all of their progress.

And even if it's not the host, DE aren't going to install a gear item that causes literal de-synchs, that's how code-injection exploits happen.

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4 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

This, my friend, is what's called an exploit.

m8 we are talking possibility here, since it is possible we can make it a quality of life change which i think many would appreciate.

You know what else was kinda considered an exploit that became a feature? coptering! and now we bullet jumping which is just that in a controlled manner!

5 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

DE aren't going to install a gear item that causes literal de-synchs

Which part of connecting to the server for a fraction of a second you thought causes desync is beyond me! we start missions and transfer data to server and also end missions with the same thing and that is not a desync, connecting to the server doesn't mean getting disconnected from the host m8!

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13 hours ago, Xikto said:

Which part of connecting to the server for a fraction of a second you thought causes desync is beyond me!

The literal part where that's how it functionally works, you cause a disconnect from the session and start a new one with the server. That disconnect is also termed a manual de-synchronsation.

The reason that Host Migration is a thing is because this isn't an instant process, and data can be manipulated in that time.

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14 hours ago, Xikto said:

m8 we are talking possibility here

 

Dont ya hate it, Xikto, when you are brainstorming something you think could be cool and some Negative Nancy storms in and says "No! That's not possible!! Here's why and I'm right!!!"

I don't get it. I really don't. That attitude. That self righteous certainty. That need to kick over sand castles because maybe the tide will come in soon. WTF?

First, it's just BRAINSTORMING an IDEA!

Second, I'm pretty sure it is up to DIGITAL EXTREMES to be the arbiters of turning possibility into actuality. In other words... THEY say no.

Blows my mind. Always has, always will.

 

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5 minutes ago, Rovaeden said:

Dont ya hate it, Xikto

And when you think about it unnecessary negativity from certain people can also drown the good feedback and ideas that people actually are trying to provide!

1. They come and discourage people from actually giving feedback in the first place.
Look at a someone with a lot of posts, that many posts from someone with that attitude toward feedback and ideas,  just think how many people have never again sent a post on forums because of em.

2. They drown out the good ideas by cause arguments and dropping posts just to say no ur wrong and not even trying to help or see the point in the first place.

in other words as long as people like this exist (btw warframe has tons of em) giving actual good feedback and ideas to developers is NOT an easy task.

 

 

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

cause a disconnect from the session and start a new one with the server

Buddy a message is sent from ur client to the server updating ur loadout, when you are in ur orbiter ur also 100% connected to the host and you can totally change ur loadout, do you not get how that can also work in mission?

lemme put it in another way so u get what i mean, do you know simulacrum? do you know how that is considered a mission? and do you know how there is an arsenal letting you change ur loadout? do you see how that totally works and they also have it ready? i really hope this clears ur confusion in the matter.

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4 hours ago, Xikto said:

when you are in ur orbiter ur also 100% connected to the main server

Fixed it for you.

The orbiter is you connected to the server. The Relays are you connected to dedicated servers. The simulacrum is you hosting yourself with only the known items and scans that you have taken. 

The second you go into a game with another person, one of you becomes the dedicated Host of a Peer to Peer game, no longer connected to the DE servers.

Do you seriously need to have P2P gaming explained to you in a step-by-step basis?

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8 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The simulacrum is you hosting yourself with only the known items and scans that you have taken. 

Ah yes because there is not the possibility of a full team being in simulacrum, and it's not like all the gameplay elements that we are also present in the simulacrum, if you didn't know yes it is possible to have a full team in simulacrum and if host leaves you will get kicked, and you can change ur gear, i don't know what ur thinking is, but u clearly don't care about giving feedback anymore and just want to bother people.

9 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Do you seriously need to have P2P gaming explained to you in a step-by-step basis?

Aside from how immature and condescending this message is, if someday what we are suggesting becomes a thing, i would like to see you eating those words.

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14 minutes ago, Xikto said:

Aside from how immature and condescending this message is, if someday what we are suggesting becomes a thing, i would like to see you eating those words.

How would I be eating those words?

If we switch to Dedicated Servers, that's absolutely fine. I'll see you on the other side.

That will not, however, change what the literal process of P2P gaming is, what problems there are with it, and why this idea doesn't work as long as the game runs on P2P.

15 minutes ago, Xikto said:

Ah yes because there is not the possibility of a full team being in simulacrum

Oh yes, and this is again because you're hosting a situation where the snapshot of your entire arsenal is taken into account, and no gains can be made.

You can't earn anything in the Simulacrum, not even Affinity, it doesn't affect your account, your gear, anything. There is no need for the server to be updated with new content, unlike in the actual gaming sessions.

Again, do you want me to walk you through how P2P gaming works, in relation to Warframe, DE's server setup, and exploitation? I'm not kidding, I will if you want me to, far from trying to bother people, I'm trying to get people like you to understand how the fundamentals work in order to make sure your feedback and questions come from the educated standpoint.

Otherwise you're literally being that guy talking to a mechanic saying 'I usually just kick it and it works'.

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Point - In mission Armory Pod is a cool idea.

Point - I have faith that DE can figure out a way to implement it.

Point - It is up to DE, not you or me, to say Yay or Nay. They know better than any of us what their coders are capable of.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Rovaeden said:

Point - In mission Armory Pod is a cool idea.

Agreed, although potentially way unbalanced in Events...

That's something for later.

23 hours ago, Rovaeden said:

Point - I have faith that DE can figure out a way to implement it.

Not agreed, but only because it's entirely reliant on another debate that is yet to be solved by DE actually giving us a solid decision either way; Dedicated Servers.

Moving to Dedicated Servers would enable this concept of a portable armoury. That is the way to implement it, it's really simple to implement using that tech.

Until that happens, however, the limitations of the current tech mean that a portable armoury is not in any way likely to happen. It brings back functions (specifically manual disconnects from the squad that allow you to rejoin the squad without first connecting to the main servers via your Orbiter to verify your progress) that DE patched out of the game many years ago. 

It's not that I'm against the idea. Never has been that I'm against the idea. I'm simply trying to explain why it hasn't been done yet, and why it's not likely to happen for a long time.

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Amid talk about the difficulties of implementing a portable armory, it's perhaps worth throwing an idea of just being able to swap between (at least a few) loadouts? Something like that functions in Conclave, and if it can safely work there without dedicated inventory servers...could fit what OP desires without major restructuring?

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On 2021-01-11 at 11:11 PM, Tyreaus said:

Something like that functions in Conclave, and if it can safely work there without dedicated inventory servers

I... have news for you.

Conclave is the one part of Warframe (with full-speed gameplay) that actually does function on dedicated servers. It was done a while back, and it only does so because running it P2P actually proved impossible at the beginning of it. (The other part running on dedicated servers are the relays and public hubs, but they function on cut-down return times and a dozen under-the-hood efficiency adjustments that allow for the large amount of players. That's why everyone that jumps looks like they're running in the air rather than jumping/bullet jumping.)

That's how I know for a fact that the in-mission Armoury would work on those.

It's there we saw exactly how the change-over would work. It's there that we have our knowledge of what would be required for DE to do that to the rest of the game. The fact that Conclave has its own suite of bugs, connection issues and so on, was all explained to us by DE when they did it as to the fact that they had to use a fundamentally different way of making the game work, and it's why its been so under-improved by DE since. I mean, heck, the only reason that we're limited to only switch between set Loadouts on Conclave is to reduce server load that it would take to allow for the entire Arsenal to be loaded in each time. If Dedicated servers ran the whole game, then the Arsenal wouldn't need to be accessed by proxy and we could just do it.

So people like me aren't talking in a vacuum of 'what if', we actually have the process as it would happen, a direct example of how DE would handle it.

A mobile armoury would work, just... not on current tech. Making this a debate about dedicated servers instead of just about a mobile armoury.

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13 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I... have news for you.

Honestly, NGL, I thought the dedicated servers were entirely for connection purposes and loadout swapping was done client-side. E.g., loadouts are loaded onto the client, client updates host / other clients on swap. So TY for the info!

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