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Instantly consume relics for void traces


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personally id prefer some kind of high risk high reward relic cracking. Allow players to open multiple relics at once, but for each relic thrown in the enemy level goes up by XX. Anything to get rid of relics faster, i have literally over a 1000 lith relics.

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3 hours ago, MistressMoonpaw said:

personally id prefer some kind of high risk high reward relic cracking. Allow players to open multiple relics at once, but for each relic thrown in the enemy level goes up by XX. Anything to get rid of relics faster, i have literally over a 1000 lith relics.

I think that could work (Plus it can help with leveling frames / weapons, etc.). I was wondering something for a long time though, is there a hard cap on how many of a specific relic you can hold in your inventory (Going down to ones of a specific refinement level)?

 

For instance, if you had 95 Lith M6 relics (Just an example), then you need to start refining them to a higher level in order to start getting them in drop tables again. Assuming that you can have up to 95 of the same one (I heard that once, but I'm not sure).

Unless it turns out that even when you do have a max number of the same relic per refinement level, you still get relics from drop tables that get thrown to the void since you can't take them with you (I really hope that isn't the case).

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6 hours ago, project_eulogy said:

Farming relics is EASY now compared to what it used to be. If this suggestion came in 2017 I would totally be for it. But the amount of relics i've obtained just doing missions is staggering. Getting traces is NOT hard at all. Smeeta and a Booster. Neither are expensive. Farming a kavat is SO much easier than it used to be.

Idk where you get new players have a hard time farming relics? also if DE stops making multi-relics, they drop the grind down. Thus play time, thus people getting things MUCH faster than normal. They would have to revamp their vaulting/unvaulting process and very likely throw off time spent on new frames/QOL fixes(haaaaaa).

The only suggestion i feel would even be relevant is the limit on void traces being lifted/not associated with MR Level.

DE already increased syndicate reputation cap for lower MRs, so increasing void trace limits don't seem to be impossible. I don't think they will remove the limit, though.

Yeah, farming relics is fast now. Every relic type can be reliably farmed every 5-6 min with high drop chance (11-14%) with defense and disruption. I'm still grateful that Lua disruption allows us to farm axi relics every rotation.

I'm MR26 and play about 1-2 hours a day. I have plenty of relics but lack void traces because I'm farming rare parts. However, I rotate between farming common parts and rare parts. I gather traces while farming common parts and then spend them to farm rare parts. But I think the minimum amount of traces should be 10 instead of 6, because 10 runs for a radiant relic at most seems fair to me, intead of 17 if you have bad luck.

As for resource boosters I stopped buying them because I only really need it for relics, so I ended up wasting it most of the time.

Edited by HolySeraphin
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Il y a 11 heures, I_Eat_Toast a dit :

User experience varies. Calling others' experiences "bollocks" isn't constructive or civil. To achieve a 90% chance of getting the item you want, at optimal refinement, you need 5 for rare, 3 for uncommon, and 2 for common. You only need 13-18 relics to have a 90% chance of getting each item. Also, there are ways to exceed daily syndicate standing rep gain, so you can trade for more relics. You can do the binomial probability calculations yourself, but this isn't lottery odds, and it's reasonable and realistic if you want to rush a frame. 

Also, the speed which you acquire relics does impact this topic, as this is a topic of making use of relics.

DE will do economically better if players are happy playing their game. Making quality of life improvements is one of the better options they can choose. Also, getting rid of relics makes vaulted primes more valuable, so the need to buy them increases. This creates scarcity. 

If I was to say "I got super lucky and got every drops I wanted right away, thus this is the average experience", this would be bollocks. Being scared of hurting anyone's feeling goes directly against constructive discussion. Just grow some skin.

Your 90% chance is extremely hopefull, and that's only a theoretical chance, and I would love to see the math behind that result. But I'm sure you know that it can easily get much worst than 18 rolls to get those 10 items in practice.

And again no, it's off topic. You want a system to dump OLD relics to cut the trace farm. The time it takes to obtain those traces is part of the incentive to pay instead. The speed at which you obtain NEW relics doesn't change if the trace farm changes, it's part of the same gameplay cycle, but has no bearing on the  problematic part of your suggestion, saying "cutting the time to acquire X is not a problem because obtaining unrelated Y is fast" is purely nonsensical.

I would understand such a defense if you suggested something like "consume 10 old relics in exchange for a guaranteed new one", but that's obviously not the case here. My position on the matter would be roughly the same tho.

DE will not do economically better if they remove every incentives for player to spend money, how can you even say something like that and not cringe in embarrasment ? World isn't all sunshine and rainbows. If stuff becomes easier to get, that's just that many more people that won't give up on working for that stuff and won't pay. DE will get some minor good press for a week and people will start again moaning and complaining and crying about every single small inconvenience without thinking of the reason said inconvenience exists in the first place. Only thing that would really change here is the bottom line.

And no, people that don't trade would get rid of their useless relics the same way they turn every vaulted prime into ducats, and trade savy people will just hold onto their vaulted relics. And even if that was the case, a marginal increase in the price of vaulted goods would never cover such a major thing as prime access, which are often the central part of any update they're in, that's as much DE counts on those to make profit. If increasing the vault's prices was valuable to them, why would they ever rotate unvaultings as they do ?

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The problem with increasing the ability to open relics is you further tank the already low market prices. Maybe being able to open 4 relics max at once is ok if you can only pick 1 of the rewards.

 

Whatever seems good needs to not tank the market while we figure out what to do.

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14 hours ago, project_eulogy said:

-snip-

My bad the 1st point one the "problems" part is meant to be void traces not relics, so the 1st and 2nd points are pretty much the same.

Getting void traces is not hard but tedious if you have 1,500 cap and you have 0 it`s going to be a pain to get it all back, also you can`t 100% rely on the kavat since it doesn`t proc affinity booster as often as you like plus getting between 6 - 40 doesn`t help.

All of my suggestions makes farming for void traces less of a grind and are relevant.

 

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extracting void traces from existing upgraded relics makes more sense. since we can only get the traces/reactant from void fissures

as for the extra relics... I'd rather have them traded for random vaulted relics

maybe 3/5 for 1 vaulted relic? via Darvo scam

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I've seen some really cool suggestions, allowing us to trade relics for 15 ducats (the minimum you'd get normally) or a fixed amount of Void Traces depending on the relic (for enhanced ones i'd say base relic value + half the value of that enhancement) would really help in a pinch, a lot of us have WAAAY more relics than we need, and giving those up for a few quick void traces would be a no-brainer especially when compared the alternative of spending more time than sometimes we can afford to farm traces or ducats.

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15 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

Your 90% chance is extremely hopefull, and that's only a theoretical chance, and I would love to see the math behind that result. But I'm sure you know that it can easily get much worst than 18 rolls to get those 10 items in practice.

Go calculated it yourself if you doubt it. Each relic opening is an independent variable, and binomial probability takes that into account. Theoretical probability, over many iterations, is equivalent to the tested results, by law of averages. As I've said, experiences may vary.

15 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

And again no, it's off topic. You want a system to dump OLD relics to cut the trace farm.

I'm OP. OP says it's on topic. I'm requesting a new way to make traces that makes use of ANY relic,. All impacts that this may have is part of the discussion, as I've asked people to tell me what they think of it.

15 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

DE will not do economically better if they remove every incentives for player to spend money

Haven't asked for this. Adding this feature would be good, as it would increase in game market scarcity, so an increase want for unvaulted primes. However, this is just speculation, but it's just as valid as your speculation of doom and economic gloom of "half" of their profits.

15 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

If increasing the vault's prices was valuable to them, why would they ever rotate unvaultings as they do ?

I don't know. I don't answer for DE, nor do you, so it will only be up to them to answer.

15 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

Being scared of hurting anyone's feeling goes directly against constructive discussion. Just grow some skin.

Insulting people is the worst way to convince them and people who see your argument. It's not about being scared. It's about being logical. The inability to articulate your argument without the need for vulgarity is required for civil discussion. 

Making a game more enjoyable to play and adding diversity in the gameplay and mechanics is the most profitable choice a company can make. 

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On 2021-01-05 at 9:10 PM, I_Eat_Toast said:

I'm not complaining about whales. I'm just stating a microtransaction based game's method for profitability. 

Also, I'm asking for variance with ways of getting void traces. 
“The guiding tenant is try not to push them so that they’re going to grind their face off to get something but also give them enough variance so that getting those resources is interesting,”
-Carter

i was only criticizing your 'whale' commend, not your original idea of disolving relics for traces - this is actually a good idea and similar to the "mods-for-endo" we already have in the game.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, fr4gb4ll said:

i was only criticizing your 'whale' commend, not your original idea of disolving relics for traces - this is actually a good idea and similar to the "mods-for-endo" we already have in the game.

Ahh. "Whale" is just the nomenclature for those type of people. There's also "dolphins" who spend less. It stems from casino culture and the fact most games that use microtransactions feel like gambling. I thought everyone knew these terms -- maybe not the origins. Now, I should say the quote I used before is of when DE removed a feature because it was like gambling. I very much like the way DE employs microtransactions, as they're not too intrusive, and you really just need to sell 1 or 2 items to get enough plat for something.

Edited by I_Eat_Toast
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So are we agreed sell void relics for 15 shards, or 15+1/2 the upgrades cost?

If so post it on the feedback section and it might come into effect. I know things I’ve put there got applied within a month. That or the problem addressed got addressed in a different way still within a month. 

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On 2021-01-06 at 5:51 AM, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

I think that could work (Plus it can help with leveling frames / weapons, etc.). I was wondering something for a long time though, is there a hard cap on how many of a specific relic you can hold in your inventory (Going down to ones of a specific refinement level)?

 

For instance, if you had 95 Lith M6 relics (Just an example), then you need to start refining them to a higher level in order to start getting them in drop tables again. Assuming that you can have up to 95 of the same one (I heard that once, but I'm not sure).

Unless it turns out that even when you do have a max number of the same relic per refinement level, you still get relics from drop tables that get thrown to the void since you can't take them with you (I really hope that isn't the case).

well i literally have over 102 lith c4. d1 and s8 relics, so i think you can hold at least 999? but if its 999 it may as well be 4096, or 256, depending how the data is saved

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On 2021-01-07 at 1:30 AM, I_Eat_Toast said:

I'm OP. OP says it's on topic. I'm requesting a new way to make traces that makes use of ANY relic,. All impacts that this may have is part of the discussion, as I've asked people to tell me what they think of it.

Being OP does not protect you from being wrong, and you are very wrong.

Instead of just whinning "I decided it's on topic", why don't you give me a single way in which the speed at which you get new relics changes anything about the consequences of turning old relics into trace ? A SINGLE one.

Let's say for the sake of arguing that it's as fast to get new relics as the previous guy said, that your probas are exact and all. Alright, the amount of traces needed is 100% unchanged. You still need to crack the same amount of trash relics to get this amount. Having instantly a lot of new relics is INCONSEQUENTIAL to the matter, since those are not the ones you would be turning into traces with your idea. AND your idea started with the assumption that we have hundreds of trash relics to consume anyway, so even if you did convert the new ones, that wouldn't change anything.

Your original suggestion of turning relics into traces ONLY changes the time spent cracking relics for traces in missions. It doesn't change, nor relies on, nor has anything to do with the time it takes to obtain new relics.

So stop presenting this as a defence for your suggestion, it - does - not - apply - here.

For the rest :

_a week of good press does not make any profit, taking away an incentive to pay reduces the profit DIRECTLY, it's both logical and common sense. Also I didn't say half of all their overall profit, but I understand, it's so much easier to oversimplify what I'm saying. And you have just repeated your nonsense argument that I already busted with several points that you did not quote nor responded to.

_ My arguments were perfectly presented, but if I feel something is stupid, I'll say that it's stupid. If you are completely incapable to continue reading at the first sign of opposition, you're gonna have trouble in life. 

You are delusional about this, like the people asking for craft timers to be reduced/removed, that kind of inconvenience is the lifeforce of this monetisation system. You have only shown that you don't understand (or refuse to understand) this very straight forward fact, I assume because you're too lazy to do the grind and don't wanna pay either. Well they are not gonna bend their entire system and dig a hole in their finances for those that wanna play less and pay even less, that's not how things work in life.

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20 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

while we're at it, can we add so "riven slivers" can be traded for like 50 kuva each?

Are people building up a surplus of them? I think a better feature might be to just turn them into endo, since that's one thing you can do with rivens. This is so that there isn't much resource crossover.

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On 2021-01-07 at 3:15 PM, BDMblue said:

So are we agreed sell void relics for 15 shards, or 15+1/2 the upgrades cost?

If so post it on the feedback section and it might come into effect. I know things I’ve put there got applied within a month. That or the problem addressed got addressed in a different way still within a month. 

How about 5/10/15/20 for lith/meso/neo/axi and 1/2 of the upgrade cost?

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12 minutes ago, I_Eat_Toast said:

Are people building up a surplus of them? I think a better feature might be to just turn them into endo, since that's one thing you can do with rivens. This is so that there isn't much resource crossover.

You turn mods and statues into endo already, i'd much preferer a source of extra kuva from riven slivers. Since even if you use them as frequently as possible to make rivens, that is AT MOST once a week, for something you'll be accumulating more and more of playing steel path, railjack, and doing requiem fissures.

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3 hours ago, I_Eat_Toast said:

How about 5/10/15/20 for lith/meso/neo/axi and 1/2 of the upgrade cost?

Won’t matter too much. Some one from DE is going to pitch it then they balance it the way they want. It’s more of a matter of what ideas you want bouncing in their heads.

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