Zendesk still Alive after Tencent?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

8 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

This one small setting, without demanding totally maxed resources for an extended period of time, could achieve what the 100% usage torture tests did not. I think anyone worth their salt would call that a problem worth looking into.

Modern processors have cores with very specialized hardware made to do some calculations far more easily than a normal computing core can (this is called hardware acceleration). This is used most often in GPUs, but many CPUs have hardware acceleration for certain calculations. My guess is that turning on this option tries to use those specialized circuits, even if they don't exist in your CPU, or if your CPU has an older version of that hardware acceleration.

In your particular case, it seems like your CPU has some hardware acceleration for that calculation, but not as much or as new as the game expected, and thus that part of the CPU was overworked to the extreme while the rest of the game's processes waited on it, thus appearing to be low CPU usage but still causing high temperatures. A stress test is typically all main core testing, not hardware acceleration testing, which would not cause the same problem.

Now, as I mentioned before, DE should have made the game check if that feature could actually be supported by the available hardware, and automatically be permanently disabled if it is not supported, the same way they do with other features. The fact that they didn't illustrates a major issue.

[Krankbert]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb TheLexiConArtist:

No S#&$, sherlock. That's why I did everything to improve performance and reduce demand including the usage of a setting which states 'greatly improves performance' which in practice has achieved the opposite.

Let me try to drill it in with an analogy:

"Let me try to drill it in"? You insisted and insisted that your PC was fine and that it was a software issue with Warframe, and now it's "No S#&$ Sherlock"?

vor 21 Minuten schrieb TheLexiConArtist:

Telling me 'just shouldn't overheat LOL' is the same as telling someone who can't run the game at high settings 'Just buy a better computer, LOL'. It's unhelpful and obnoxious.

This is my initial post.  

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Krankbert:

To be fair, Warframe shouldn't be able to grossly overheat your CPU. The setting solved your immediate issue by lowering Warframe's CPU consumption to a level that your machine can safely handle, but that's just treating a symptom. Sooner or later, something else (or maybe again Warframe) will grossly overheat your CPU because your cooling is insufficient.

This is your response.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb TheLexiConArtist:

You don't actually know what you're talking about in this specific case. The problem exactly was that this setting caused the overheating in cases even while resource demand was low (while with everything else BUT Warframe with this setting, resources could be nearly maxed out without fully overheating).

We're talking 60% CPU (+40% GPU) overheat in Warframe versus 100% CPU (+80% GPU) no-overheat in other games. That may not make sense to you - I understand that, it was baffling to me, too. - but that's just the facts of the matter.

Mine just happens to be a convenient test case because my (laptop) machine is a model notoriously poor for cooling in general, so the difference was enough to consistently cause tangible, visible problems which could be replicated in testing. Other people with the same setting active are likely running hotter for no real reason too, they just aren't noticing as much because they had more comfortable wiggle room.

An hour ago I didn't know what I was talking about. Now the exact same thing is "no S#&$ sherlock".

Just in case someone only reads the last page and actually believes your gaslighting.

[TheLexiConArtist]

4 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

My guess is that turning on this option tries to use those specialized circuits, even if they don't exist in your CPU, or if your CPU has an older version of that hardware acceleration.

In your particular case, it seems like your CPU has some hardware acceleration for that calculation, but not as much or as new as the game expected, and thus that part of the CPU was overworked to the extreme while the rest of the game's processes waited on it, thus appearing to be low CPU usage but still causing high temperatures. A stress test is typically all main core testing, not hardware acceleration testing, which would not cause the same problem.

Now, as I mentioned before, DE should have made the game check if that feature could actually be supported by the available hardware, and automatically be permanently disabled if it is not supported, the same way they do with other features. The fact that they didn't illustrates a major issue.

Well, the pure CPU benchmark prog did detect the system and optimise for the processor in use. But I suppose it's as good of a guess as any that the game's trying to do something more than that. When support gets back to me, if they want to ask me to help diagnose the underlying issue in the setting somehow, then I'll do what I can.

The over-voltage idea was just a stray thought brought on by the other's claims of inexorably linking heat production to usage alone.

Should have known if there was a problem setting it'd be the one that exists specifically for Windows 10 though. Wouldn't be shocking if it's the OS being a tool with it.

I also only noticed it becoming such an issue as of the Orphix Venom update, which is another reason I went to DE support about it once I'd isolated the errant behaviour to Warframe.

 

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

"Let me try to drill it in"? You insisted and insisted that your PC was fine and that it was a software issue with Warframe, and now it's "No S#&$ Sherlock"?

This is my initial post.  

This is your response.

An hour ago I didn't know what I was talking about. Now the exact same thing is "no S#&$ sherlock".

Just in case someone only reads the last page and actually believes your gaslighting.

You said switching off the setting reduced CPU demand and therefore reduced heat. That's where you did not know what you were talking about, because it did no such thing. Your presumption implied it was a setting that, when enabled, added demand (+quality) therefore heat, when it is actually a setting which is intended to reduce demand (+performance) consequently reduce heat where nothing else is turned up higher to make use of the freed resources.

I know the machine's poor thermal profile is a problem - a separate one I have previously addressed to the extent of ability by using low and 'performance improving' settings including the one which caused the issue since - but the Flip-Model setting causing undue heat presents another problem entirely, and that is the one I am discussing.

One problem existing does not invalidate the other's existence. A fire escape needs to remain unblocked even though the building is not intended to catch on fire.

[Krankbert]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb TheLexiConArtist:

 

You said switching off the setting reduced CPU demand and therefore reduced heat. That's where you did not know what you were talking about, because it did no such thing. Your presumption implied it was a setting that, when enabled, added demand (+quality) therefore heat, when it is actually a setting which is intended to reduce demand (+performance) consequently reduce heat where nothing else is turned up higher to make use of the freed resources.

If you go back to my first comment and read the words that are actually there, you’ll find that I actually didn’t say that. You‘ll find that I only talked about „the setting“ in the abstract as did you.

[TheLexiConArtist]

3 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

If you go back to my first comment and read the words that are actually there, you’ll find that I actually didn’t say that. You‘ll find that I only talked about „the setting“ in the abstract as did you.

29 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

The setting solved your immediate issue by lowering Warframe's CPU consumption to a level that your machine can safely handle

Hmm. Look at that. You do know what 'implies' means, I trust? If it's a setting that lowers consumption when turned off then it increases demand when turned on, which is antithetical to a 'performance improving' setting, so by that statement right there you've incorrectly implied that I turned off a quality-gain setting rather than turning off a performance-gain setting.

And that's why I told you that you were making assumptions about the nature of the setting - typically sensible ones, yes, but ones that are not correct in this specific case.

I even commiserated that it made just as little sense to me that the heat gain wasn't representative of actual demand differences. But I'm the one with the numbers, so I rather think I know better than you what they actually read.

[Krueller]

4 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

...you should know better.  

As should you.  Talking down to a fellow Tenno because they have concerns isn't very Tenno-ish.  And people have a right to be wary of Tencent.  There are games which have both suffered and made progress under the reign of Tencent.  Not to mention that many people (rightfully) have a mistrust in Chinese companies.  Not all are bad, and in my opinion Tencent is a toss up and can go either way.  What I'm worried about is pricing be jacked as happens in a lot of Tencent owned games.  We'll see.  Like I said, can go either way.

What I like is that DE said they'd stay in control of things.  If that's the case, very little will we as Tenno see change.  

As for support, they've usually been very snappy when getting back to me.  Although I haven't had to make a ticket lately, I'd suggest allotting more time for them to answer thanks to the Covid-19 issues.

My 0.2 cents and I won't be touching on the subject re: Tencent again.  

[Krankbert]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb TheLexiConArtist:

Hmm. Look at that. You do know what 'implies' means, I trust? If it's a setting that lowers consumption when turned off then it increases demand when turned on, which is antithetical to a 'performance improving' setting, so by that statement right there

Please quote where in that comment I said „turned on“ or „turned off“, thank you.

Edit: I only said „the setting“, as did you. I didn’t know what setting it was because you hadn’t said, and I didn’t ask because it didn’t matter. I made absolutely no assumption about the nature of the setting, and most certainly didn’t „imply“ any, because the entire point of that comment was that no setting, performance-improving or otherwise, malfunctioning or otherwise, should cause your PC to overheat. (No S#&$ Sherlock.)

Remember that this was in response to you calling it an „abysmal“ response and „shifting blame“ when DE customer support also assumed that no setting should case your PC to overheat. Because - no S#&$ Sherlock - it shouldn’t.

[Letter13]

Zendesk is only the software platform which DE Customer Support operates off of; the Zendesk company is not involved with the operation of the Warframe Support Page beyond providing the software it's built on.

Support tickets go to DE Staff who handle Customer Service (or to other DE Staff like Q&A, Community Staff, etc. depending on the nature of the ticket), not to a third party group or service (contrary to what some users may believe). As for the time involved in having tickets addressed, the speed at which a ticket is addressed depends on a few variables, such as the order in which the ticket was received, the number of tickets ahead of it in the queue, and whether the ticket is for a high priority issue, or if there's recently been a holiday in which DE Staff were not working on the game and may have been taking time off (there are these things called Solstice, Christmas and New Years). Submitting multiple tickets for the same issue may slow down the response time even further, so users should only submit 1 ticket per issue. 

Tencent's purchase of DE has not caused any change to the Customer Support service. Or caused any changes in how things are being run. You will unfortunately need to be patient and wait for DE Customer Support to respond to your ticket.

 

Locking.