What is the fastest groundspeed possible solo?

[PhiThagRaid]

28 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Tradeable yes but usually not cheap. 
And no, those aren't as fast, here's the current Dojo parkour World Record(not my run lol) which gives you an idea of the pace. Aside from the usual speed enhancing mods the keys to this are Proton Pulse for the wall latch speed bonus and of course the Menticide helmet.

 

Nice run, although I'm unable to tell how it compares to the arcanes, I run proton pulse+IM(154% PS)+arcane agility on my main Gauss build, and it really goes the distance. I've yet to add an actual bullet jump mod such as Mobility or Lightning Dash. Translating the above build seems to be: Aero Vantage, Proton Pulse, Ice Spring, Endurance Drift and a flawed Thief's wit.

[PhiThagRaid]

5 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Bullet jump is ground speed? Zephyr wants to know. 

I'd say No for the main topic, but went a bit off track with discussion about nyx. 

[PhiThagRaid]

28 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Bullet jump is ground speed? Zephyr wants to know. 

If you want a tangent, I'd be happy to hear it if >50% of time is spent on the ground. So making use of her in air passive does not work, yet her 3rd and 1st might be used if keeping to the ground.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

If it has already been tested, do you have a link to such data?

Well i am of course referring to the many  youtube videos about gauss and volt racing, not the ones where gauss gets help from 8 different players though.

It's really sad that at the end of the day, Gauss isn't really efficient at what he's designed to do

[ReddyDisco]

Finally figured out what this title reminded me of

[PhiThagRaid]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Well i am of course referring to the many  youtube videos about gauss and volt racing,

And these are a mixed bag of results, some videos have Gauss modded badly, others Volt, with many also being outdated already. I'm looking for numbers, something concrete not dependent on the skill of the players(at movement and modding) in the videos. So, a generic "look it up" approach doesn't really help discussion.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Well i am of course referring to the many  youtube videos about gauss and volt racing, not the ones where gauss gets help from 8 different players though.

It's really sad that at the end of the day, Gauss isn't really efficient at what he's designed to do

It's worse than that, his best use is as a stationary CC frame lol 🤣

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

10 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

It's worse than that, his best use is as a stationary CC frame lol 🤣

Why do you have to make it harder for me ;-; i used to be a gauss junky you know.

but i realized the hard truth after the overbuff :(

[-CdG-Zilchy]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

Why do you have to make it harder for me ;-; i used to be a gauss junky you know.

but i realized the hard truth after the overbuff :(

😆 sorry not sorry lol

[PhiThagRaid]

11 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

 here's the current Dojo parkour World Record(not my run lol) which gives you an idea of the pace.

After thinking about it for a while, I remembered that I got sub 6. 5.23s to be exact, feel free to check my profile in game. xD Probably can't reproduce that again easily. It doesn't make much sense for me to be 1.6s faster than WR, though.

Either that run was already around last time I did the dojo parkour, or I had the exact pathing, since the path is very familiar.(Mainly trying to avoid the central reset trigger)

[PhiThagRaid]

I ran a few tests with Volt, and my average times for the 655m runs was ~11s at best.(At first constantly got 14s, but it seems that when free running in contrast to using MR being in the air is a good thing. With Gauss leaving the ground with MR slows you down. I usually run Gauss without MR, so I found doing hops gives you more speed due to less friction. This fact seems to play a large role here, so from my testing air Gauss<grounded Volt<grounded Gauss<air Volt.{air Gauss not tested, but inferred from experience})

1.82 SS 336% PS With IM.
When running Molt with the same build the time was ~18s for the run.

So, for some reason IM>Molt on Volt.

Volt m/s calculations:

IM                               Molt
650/11=59m/s            650/18=36.1m/s

I will admit that my build is not 100% optimised for Volt, regardless here is what I used:

Spoiler

 

• Steel Charge(the 13 capacity is worth more than 15% SS, since that allowed me to add 11+12.5=23.5% more power strength, also tested with SB instead, got worse results)

Sprint Mods:

• Speed Drift +12%
• Armored Agility +15%
• Rush +30%
• Amalgam Serration +25%

12+15+30+25=82%

Strength Mods:

• Transient Fortitude +45%
• Blind Rage +99%
• Augur Secrets +24%
• Umbral Intensify+1 +55%
• Power Drift +12.5%

45+99+24+55+12.5=235.5

 

Now for the theoretical fastest build(will split between Molt and IM):

Spoiler

Sprint Mods:

• Sprint Boost +15%
• Speed Drift +12%
• Armored Agility +15%
• Rush +30%
• Amalgam Serration +25%
• Karyst +10%

1*(1+0.12+0.15+0.3+0.25+0.15+0.1)=2.07

Strength Mods:

• Transient Fortitude +55%
• Blind Rage +99%
• Augur Secrets +24%
• Umbral Intensify+1 +55%
• Power Drift +15%

100*(1+0.99+0.24+0.55+0.55+0.15)=348%

Volt speed:
1+(0.5*3.48)=2.74x(same as Molt)
IM:
0.6*3.48=2.088
Molt:
2.74x

Based on testing IM+VS>M+VS, so results showing something else should be discarded.

Multiplicative VS+IM:                       Ultra Multiplicative VS+IM:               Additive VS+IM:
2.07*2.74+2.088=7.7598                 (2.07+2.088)*2.74=11.39292          2.07+2.74+2.088=6.898

Multiplicative VS+M:                        Ultra Multiplicative VS+M:                Additive VS+M:
2.07*(2.74+2.74)=11.3436               2.07*2.74*2.74=15.540732             2.07+2.74+2.74=7.55

From the above the only logical combination would be: UMVS+IM and AVS+M.(other differences seem too small or are negative, this does however not make 100% sense, it would be expected that the application of VS stays constant, only other option is that M does nothing when VS is active{should be tested})

This would suggest that Gauss's interaction with Molt is Multiplicative.

Volt is expected to have an 11.4 SS, heavily affected by friction. This is a "ground speed" of 85m/s, where it is better to not be on the ground most of the time. I am willing to accept this due to it being an innate feature to high speed running without something like MR. (This is the unconditional speed, this can still be increased with the 5 items mentioned in the OP{if someone is willing to do the calculations, it'll be appreciated})

[-CdG-Zilchy]

10 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

After thinking about it for a while, I remembered that I got sub 6. 5.23s to be exact, feel free to check my profile in game. xD Probably can't reproduce that again easily. It doesn't make much sense for me to be 1.6s faster than WR, though.

Either that run was already around last time I did the dojo parkour, or I had the exact pathing, since the path is very familiar.(Mainly trying to avoid the central reset trigger)

It's likely it was a glitched run a while back, as an example the dojo record in my clan was 1 second... Yeh that wasn't legit lol. I don't recall if they redesigned the obstacle course at some point but that's also a possibility.

[BahamutKaiser]

On 2021-01-05 at 1:15 AM, PhiThagRaid said:

If you want a tangent, I'd be happy to hear it if >50% of time is spent on the ground. So making use of her in air passive does not work, yet her 3rd and 1st might be used if keeping to the ground.

Serious talk, Volt with Telos Boltace, Bullet Jump Mods and Arcanes gets a serious boost in velocity VS Gauss, who can't bullet jump and Mach Rush simultaneously. Either way, there was a video showing max build Volt dusting Max Build Gauss recently, without jumping. IDK if that serves your inquiry. 

[Murox]

Fastest groundspeed solo? Any K-Drive with maxed speed mods, and with a maxed Magus Drive's effect active.

[PhiThagRaid]

4 minutes ago, Murox said:

Fastest groundspeed solo? Any K-Drive with maxed speed mods, and with a maxed Magus Drive's effect active.

Oh, no. Definitely not. My base speed build on Nezha was able to outspeed a fully modded k-drive, even a Nechramech can do that while its stamina is up. The above theorized builds are 3-5x faster than that Nezha build. 

An earlier reply said it was sad that Gauss doesn't reach high enough speeds for what he was designed to be. K-Drives are even worse at this, no redeeming qualities when compared to frames, mechs or archwings.

I have tested full magus before and found it lackluster, I'll do some tests to confirm/deny my previous findings. 

[JackHargreav]

I see some Volt vs Gauss comparison. 

Honestly I find it pointless completely since Gauss is really handicapped. As power strength mods have absolutely no effect on his speed. And Volt gains from power strength and sprint boost mods and from friction reduction mods. 

To me all that really matters tho, is how the frame feels. And Gauss even with less versatility just feels better to me. His build is very nice compact and the abilities complement each other nicely. Only exception might be Kinetic Plating since moving around means you get hit less but it's not a big deal usually.

[Murox]

1 minute ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Oh, no. Definitely not. My base speed build on Nezha was able to outspeed a fully modded k-drive, even a Nechramech can do that while its stamina is up. The above theorized builds are 3-5x faster than that Nezha build. 

An earlier reply said it was sad that Gauss doesn't reach high enough speeds for what he was designed to be. K-Drives are even worse at this, no redeeming qualities when compared to frames, mechs or archwings.

I have tested full magus before and found it lackluster, I'll do some tests to confirm/deny my previous findings. 

Oh, word? I thought the arcane would have been enough. Guess not.

[PhiThagRaid]

Just now, Murox said:

Oh, word? I thought the arcane would have been enough. Guess not.

I think without abilities on warframes k-drives can definitely be faster, but all that additional speed from abilities give warframes a massive boost.(although you might be onto something if we mix them, eg. Max VS and IM + Magus +fully nodded k-drive)

I think one issue might be that it most likely isn't multiplicative. Eg. SS mods gives an effective 69% boost and arcane give 150% that turns into an effective 3.19x sprint speed instead of the possible ~4.2x(guesstimate) (1.69×2.5)

[PhiThagRaid]

27 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I see some Volt vs Gauss comparison. 

Honestly I find it pointless completely since Gauss is really handicapped. As power strength mods have absolutely no effect on his speed. And Volt gains from power strength and sprint boost mods and from friction reduction mods. 

To me all that really matters tho, is how the frame feels. And Gauss even with less versatility just feels better to me. His build is very nice compact and the abilities complement each other nicely. Only exception might be Kinetic Plating since moving around means you get hit less but it's not a big deal usually.

Yeah, without IM or Molt Gauss is somewhat dead in the water. Max SS of 2.89+1.85 from MR. And Volt is 2.07x2.74.

[PhiThagRaid]

6 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Serious talk, Volt with Telos Boltace, Bullet Jump Mods and Arcanes gets a serious boost in velocity VS Gauss, who can't bullet jump and Mach Rush simultaneously. Either way, there was a video showing max build Volt dusting Max Build Gauss recently, without jumping. IDK if that serves your inquiry. 

At what point does a bulletjump and parkour velocity build stop being groundspeed, though? I believe rolling is an acceptable maneuver, but bullet jumping starts forcing you to be off the ground.

32 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

And Volt gains from power strength and sprint boost mods and from friction reduction mods

Ah forgot about friction mods, they can possibly make a grounded volt better.

[PhiThagRaid]

Running tests with k-drive+abilities is quite difficult. My ability duration is only 6-7s, so I can't get them to be 100% active. I get roughly 13.8s on the 655m test area. This is actually better than expected. It is slightly slower than max speed I was able to build for Gauss and quite a bit slower than the Volt air build. (Roughly equal or slightly faster than the ground Volt). This however is without any conditionals for the frames. Those additional Arcanes and triggerable mods have a massive boost (See OP). I still would need to figure out if these conditionals can help k-drives at all. In general K-drives make it way more difficult to test due to activations and switching animation times.

[PhiThagRaid]

1 hour ago, Murox said:

Fastest groundspeed solo? Any K-Drive with maxed speed mods, and with a maxed Magus Drive's effect active.

I'll say this might be the cheapest way to go fast, but is not the fastest. Comparable to a few forma Gauss with a duration of 30s, It is actually quite nice, just not the fastest.

[PhiThagRaid]

2 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

I think without abilities on warframes k-drives can definitely be faster, but all that additional speed from abilities give warframes a massive boost.(although you might be onto something if we mix them, eg. Max VS and IM + Magus +fully nodded k-drive)

I think one issue might be that it most likely isn't multiplicative. Eg. SS mods gives an effective 69% boost and arcane give 150% that turns into an effective 3.19x sprint speed instead of the possible ~4.2x(guesstimate) (1.69×2.5)

K-drives have special sprinting stats: Base Speed of 18 and Base Boost Speed of 21.
These seem to be absolute speeds, if you add the 30% speed mod, but not the boost mod speed becomes 23.4 and boost speed stays 21.
This means that non-boost speed is actually faster than boosting... Very logical, obviously. xD

Some tests(~650m again):

Spoiler

(Left No Boost, right Boost)
No speed mods(18-21):     Extreme Velocity(23.4-21):      Nitro Boost(18-27.3):      Both(23.4-27.3):
37.78s         ~32s              29.05s         32.56s                 37.63s       25.21s           29.14s       25.2s
37.34s         32.22s            29.41s         32.4s                   37.66s       25.29s           29.32s       25.08s
37.72s         32.22s            29s              32.49s                 37.79s       25.15s           29.33s       25.48s

From the above it should be obvious that Speed and Boost Speed are independent.

Now for Magus Drive(Rank 5, 150% 30s):
No speed mods:                Extreme Velocity:                     Nitro Boost:                    Both:
15.26s        14.34s            15s         14.47s                      16.7s       13.49s             15.18s       13.46s
~17s          14.34s            14.92s     14.37s                      16.63s     ~13.5s            15.32s       13.37s
16.26s         ~14.3s          ~15s        14.63s                     16.55s      13.42s            15.32s       13.36s

So in general Extreme Velocity is useless due to there being no stamina system for K-drives that force you to not use boost.

Speed Calculations:

Spoiler

General Formula:

650*(1/T₁+1/T₂+1/T₃)/3=Speed

NSM:                 EV:                    NB:                 B:
17.28   20.22     22.29  20.01     17.24  25.78   22.21  25.74

MD:

NSM:                 EV:                    NB:                 B:
40.26  45.37     43.41  44.86     39.09  48.26   42.56  48.52

These speed values seem about ~5% lower than the numbers shown in the arsenal, thus it could be concluded that the arsenal values are in m/s.(Warframe values are more arbitrary and normalised around 1)

MD effective boost:
Multiplier:
NSM:                EV:                    NB:                  B:
2.33   2.24       1.95     2.24       2.27   1.87      1.92   1.88
Difference:
NSM:                EV:                    NB:                  B:
22.98   25.15   21.12   24.85     21.85  22.48    20.35  22.78

This data is a bit weird that there is no consistent multiplier or difference in speed

EV Boost:                           (With NB)
Mult:             Add:              Mult:            Add:
1.29  0.99     5.01   -0.21    1.29   1       4.97  -0.04
With MD:
Mult:             Add:              Mult:            Add:
1.08  0.99     3.15   -0.51    1.09   1       3.47  0.26

NB Boost:                           (With EV)
Mult:             Add:              Mult:            Add:
1    1.27        -0.04  5.56    1     1.29      -0.08  5.73
With MD:
Mult:             Add:              Mult:            Add:
0.97  1.06     -1.17  2.89    0.98 1.08     -0.85  3.66

Diminished returns with MD seems to indicate MD is additive, weirdly it actually seems to be even worse than additive given that even the additive speed increase is lower with MD.

TL;DR: K-Drive speed mods do not interact with each other and arcane seems to be additive, thus if using the arcane the mods' value decreases dramatically. Arcane does interact with both base speed and boost speed, unlike mods.

[PhiThagRaid]

On 2021-01-06 at 2:45 PM, BahamutKaiser said:

Volt with Telos Boltace, Bullet Jump Mods and Arcanes gets a serious boost in velocity VS Gauss

I was thinking Mirage would work the best for that combo, so here's a bit of a showcase I made, the arcanes were sadly not triggered due to 1) not force proccing headshots and 2) moving too fast to take damage.

As you see, a lot of air time, though.

[PhiThagRaid]

Adding new addition to K-Drive, as I was informed about Vapor Trail. Will only be testing modless and modded with Nitro Boost since as previously shown mods did not stack.

Spoiler

Not modded:           Modded:
22.64s                     19.36s
22.63s                     19.24s
22.77s                     19.05s

With Magus Drive

Not modded:           Modded:
12.70s                     12.30s
12.84s                     12.38s
12.85s                     12.30s

Speeds:

NM:         M:
28.66       33.83
With MD:
NM:        M:
50.80      52.73

Effective Speed boost of Vapor Trail calculations:

Spoiler

NMD:
         NM:     M:
Mult: 1.42    1.31
Diff:   8.44    8.09

MD:
         NM:     M:
Mult: 1.12    1.09
Diff:   5.43    4.21

Effective boost of Magus Drive:

Spoiler

         NM:            M:
Mult: 1.77            1.56
Diff:   22.14          18.9

Effective boost of Nitro Boost:

Spoiler

         NMD:            MD:
Mult: 1.18              1.04
Diff:   5.17              1.93

This all is sadly still slower than Volt, does anyone have any other frames that they can show has ground speed that can compare?