Lavos ultimate damage formula (DE fix pls)

[Ce_nos]

(((2000*strength)*2 if imbued damage)*((n+1)^2))*(1+damage buffs)
n - number of types of status elemental effects.

(I would like to see after the fix.) 

(((2000*strength)*2 if imbued dmg)*((n+1)*2))*(1+dmg buffs)

[ReddyDisco]

[ChaoticEdge]

 

I am not doing that type math and it is good enough.  We had nuke frames roaming around and they do probably greater then that type of dmg, Equinox made by DE freaking nukes the field, Nova made by the communties nukes the field, Ember made by DE nukes the field, Oberon half nuke the field, freaking good gosh you got revent still nukes the field, Mag somehow got weird nuke power but it works, freaking Kirby eats nukes, and so much more frames can nuke.  Make no different rather you like it or not, this is all in DE chose but this time this was their own fault making another nuking frame for it seem like overpower but it is meaningless.

The fact why it is meaningless, is because we have so many nuke frame do it differently and like I said it makes no different for some frame can nuke or not but it doesn't mean it is over power thus it has back bones but has weakness like every nuke frame they required aid of allies no matter what because depending how much the players rely on the frame instead their guns and wits that all depends on the player's chose and action for they will make mistakes or not.  This time I don't think give a reason why to say fix it but when really it doesn't have to.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I looked over this several times.

you posted the same formula twice.

[DrivaMain]

Ah yes DE yet again revived another math they thought they will never redo it. Old Exponential Condition Overload formula. 
 

How long will DE let this slide..

[Ce_nos]

39 минут назад, ChaoticEdge сказал:

 

I am not doing that type math and it is good enough.  We had nuke frames roaming around and they do probably greater then that type of dmg, Equinox made by DE freaking nukes the field, Nova made by the communties nukes the field, Ember made by DE nukes the field, Oberon half nuke the field, freaking good gosh you got revent still nukes the field, Mag somehow got weird nuke power but it works, freaking Kirby eats nukes, and so much more frames can nuke.  Make no different rather you like it or not, this is all in DE chose but this time this was their own fault making another nuking frame for it seem like overpower but it is meaningless.

The fact why it is meaningless, is because we have so many nuke frame do it differently and like I said it makes no different for some frame can nuke or not but it doesn't mean it is over power thus it has back bones but has weakness like every nuke frame they required aid of allies no matter what because depending how much the players rely on the frame instead their guns and wits that all depends on the player's chose and action for they will make mistakes or not.  This time I don't think give a reason why to say fix it but when really it doesn't have to.

Man, Lavos on 80% of strength can inflict 3kk damage. Is not okay, okay? (I lavos main. Bruh).

[Ce_nos]

2 минуты назад, DrivaMain сказал:

Ah yes DE yet again revived another math they thought they will never redo it. Old Exponential Condition Overload formula. 
 

How long will DE let this slide..

DE too DE (this seems to me to have been deliberately done,)

[Ce_nos]

10 минут назад, Ce_nos сказал:

Man, Lavos on 80% of strength can inflict 3kk damage. Is not okay, okay? (I lavos main. Bruh).

[ChaoticEdge]

3 minutes ago, Ce_nos said:

that is a bug report the bug

[TheLexiConArtist]

Anything you can successfully weave 10 proc types onto before hitting the Catalyse probably deserves to be hit at a base strength of 2 million. Lavos doesn't exactly have a lot of tools to inflict even his own imbuement procs onto everything his ult can touch.

I heard it counts stacks of Tox/Heat as if separate types, so if that's true, that is a bug which needs to go.

 

That '3 million at 80% strength' marker is including the amplification from the Viral procs involved. That's not part of Lavos, specifically, and not fair to judge him against.

[Ce_nos]

23 минуты назад, ChaoticEdge сказал:

that is a bug report the bug

Well. It's been going on since Lavos was released and we have no way of knowing if that's the intention, or if the DE just put the wrong character again (instead of 22 times damage boost, it's 121 times damage boost, not taking into account viral, vulnerabilities, other damage buffs, etc.).

[Ce_nos]

5 минут назад, Ce_nos сказал:

Well. It's been going on since Lavos was released and we have no way of knowing if that's the intention, or if the DE just put the wrong character again (instead of 22 times damage boost, it's 121 times damage boost, not taking into account virus, vulnerabilities, other damage buffs, etc.).

In my build on 10 (all elemental status) with 10 viral procs formula is:

((((2000*0.8)*2)*((10+1)^2))*(1+1.75 corrosive dmg to ferrite armor))*3.25

[z3us32610]

Am I just that tired or are OP's two formulas supposed to be the same. Cuz my brain isn't noticing the difference.

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 minutes ago, z3us32610 said:

Am I just that tired or are OP's two formulas supposed to be the same. Cuz my brain isn't noticing the difference.

One is scaling 2 times the number of unique procs. ((n+1)*2)

The other is multiplying by two per unique proc ((n+1)^2)

Edit: Although unless I'm also half asleep I reckon that's also wrong, it should be 2^(n+1) 

[z3us32610]

Oh derp, i missed the difference in exponential vs multiplicative.

I was reading while working and I genuinely paused to see if I was blind.

I think your right, however. Do we know what the wording is for his 4th? Does it say it doubles in damage for every status effect?

Edit: the wiki says its 2^n where n=unique status effects

Thanks for the help Lex 

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Can we not talk about nerfs to him until us console players atleast get him. So we can test him, not that i am ever gonna throw the hands up for nerfs. Because  every frame is able to do solo sp runs over 8 hours and push the level cap. Even without bringing Rivens into the discussion.

Same reason why i was annoyed by the Khora changes. Because nerfs make zero bloody sense until the game is rebalanced across the board. Otherwise it's just a matter of nerfing to make frames less fun currently.

[DrivaMain]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Mofojokers said:

Can we not talk about nerfs to him until us console players atleast get him

Would you rather...

1. DE "fix" Lavos Ultimate scaling math now. Potentially avoiding too many players invests many forma on him. Less backlash and outrage.

or...

2. DE "Fix" Lavos Ultimate Scaling 6 months from now and out of nowhere (Whipclaw nerf is a good example). Many players cried because they already invest 7 Forma + Umbra + Aura, making their time wasted.

 

[---UMBRA---]

Cooldown is the thing that balances this incredible formula. Also lavos absolutely useless versus sentients or any status immune enemies. That is why there is no need to change formula. I want to see TS reaction after  cleaning sentient anomaly by using only lavos with his *ultimate formula*

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

20 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Would you rather...

1. DE "fix" Lavos Ultimate scaling math now. Potentially avoiding too many players invests many forma on him. Less backlash and outrage.

or...

2. DE "Fix" Lavos Ultimate Scaling 6 months from now and out of nowhere (Whipclaw nerf is a good example). Many players cried because they already invest 7 Forma + Umbra + Aura, making their time wasted.

 

Or 3. DE doesn't touch him unless their intention is to balance the entire bloody system.... 

We can littarly use all Warframes currently to sit in endless steel path survival for hours upon hours. Dealing damage into the millions with a single swing of our weapon. Why does this frame deserve to be nerfed?.

We are at the point where damage means bugger all... it's a power fantasy to the point we pretty much play with god mode on 24-7. While i might pine for the old school style, this is their choices that lead us to this point.

Unless they intend to overhaul the entire game and remove rivens for the sake of balance then i see zero reason to nerf him.

Edit : plus i would like to test it myself, too often i have seen people cry about x, y , z only to find out that it didn't matter much as they had their own advantages and disadvantages. Like a certain Helminth ability people cried about for been too op and it was such a niche thing with LOS issues but it got nerfed into the ground anyway....

Thanks again for that lads...

[Gen0-234]

Isn't it meant to be exponential?

One of the tips (the last one, to be exact) on Lavos' abilities screen say:
"Catalyze's damage is doubled for each unique Status Effect applied to the target. Take advantage of Catalyze's exponential damage scaling by teaming up with Warframes like Saryn or Ember."

Considering it's from in-game, the intention seems to be the way it is now. Not saying it's balanced or too OP - that's another matter - just that it's likely not a bug.

[Loza03]

7 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Ah yes DE yet again revived another math they thought they will never redo it. Old Exponential Condition Overload formula. 
 

How long will DE let this slide..

I would imagine the logic is 'this is an ability, not a mod, so it's not as available to as many builds'

 

I'm not sure if that's good logic, but, like, it's there?

[Monolake]

Why do you want to make it worse? Lavos already takes too much effort to set up anything and ult is on a big cooldown, meanwhile other frames can spam nukes non-stop

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Would you rather...

1. DE "fix" Lavos Ultimate scaling math now. Potentially avoiding too many players invests many forma on him. Less backlash and outrage.

or...

2. DE "Fix" Lavos Ultimate Scaling 6 months from now and out of nowhere (Whipclaw nerf is a good example). Many players cried because they already invest 7 Forma + Umbra + Aura, making their time wasted.

 

if people are still investing tons of forma into new frames and ignoring the fact that DE will more than likely change them sooner or later, that's their problem, nobody else's. people should know better by now, yet they still forma the hell out of a frame to get a "broken" build and then when said build is fixed they whine about it. it happens every single time, because metaheads just don't learn I guess.

from what I've seen of Lavos, he deserves to be powerful since A: He has cooldowns and B: his strongest combos take a little time to set up. one of DE's own justifications for Saryn was that it takes time and energy to keep spreading spores. if Lavos was nuking with one button press only, then sure, that's bad; but if you're having to press 2-3 or more controls before getting results (all while in mid-combat), then you'd want the results to be good, right? 

[SneakyErvin]

My question is just this. When will you ever see anything even remotely close to hitting the max exponential number on Lavos? Where do things even live long enough to see any form of stacks? He doesnt exactly have good and smooth ways to spread statuses in a wider area, so mostly his #4 is the AoE that covers things, which is also the one that scales. I guess you could take your time and stack statuses on things just in order to see big numbers on 4, but I rather just kill the things to begin with.

Also dont forget that 4 has a 30 second CD and a duration that is effectively also a CD layer, then you have the status prep time prior to using it. So that 3 million hit suddenly results in less than 100k dps.

[Rakosta_Kai]

@Ce_nos I'm fine with it as is as it's still limited by cooldowns and the effort it takes to achieve max effect.

That said, I can see why others would want to be certain it's working as intended as it wouldn't be the first time that a math fault affected balance on a frame only to eventually get nerfed... leaving the frame worse off as everything else had been balanced around that initial faulty math.