Orphix Venom has problems, but also a great reward system

[Teridax68]

TL;DR: It's a great idea to complement loot tables with a reliable currency one can use to purchase that same loot. Other than that, though, the event is grindy, gimmicky, and awkwardly structured, and could benefit from some adjustments to make players spend less time waiting, and maybe even let them use more than just one type of Necramech.

Figured I'd write this after running the event to the point of obtaining all of its new rewards. Let's start on a positive note: I think it's a brilliant idea to have items on a drop table also be purchaseable through a reliably-earned backup currency. It combines the thrill of randomly obtaining a reward with the confidence of being able to steadily work towards it, without being totally at the mercy of RNG. Whereas I often feel frustrated by excessively high item costs or bad streaks of luck when several runs give nothing I want, here I felt satisfied with my progress throughout, which is really all I could ask for when farming rewards. I feel this is a system that deserves to appear more often, and in fact could become the new standard, applied to older reward tables and shops. Supporting a loot table with a backup currency and a loot shop containing all of the items on the loot table would eliminate a lot of the frustration inherent to grinding in Warframe, itself meant to be part of the game's core appeal.

With that said, the event itself is far from perfect, and I think has a few problems:

Problem #1: It's a Warframe event that locks us out of our warframes to force a gimmick

In general, events are a good opportunity to test out a new feature, such as the OpLink in Scarlet Spear, or Necramechs in regular tilesets in this case. However, at the end of the day, people come to Warframe to play their warframes, and so the mechanic should complement that, rather than try to replace it. Orphix Venom is specifically predicated on locking us out of our warframes, and because of that I think it's severely limited its enjoyment value. It doesn't help that Necramechs are themselves not universally popular, with many players complaining about their clunkiness and generally poor fit with the rest of the game. Warframe isn't really a game about piloting big, slow mechs, and while those can have a place as a side mechanic, making them the main focus I don't think has really worked to make the event as well-appreciated as it could've been.

Solution: Don't replace our core gameplay with gimmicks in future events. Scarlet Spear was okay because our OpLinks were just an item we deployed while using our warframes, and most events before have worked similarly because we weren't made to abandon our frames entirely either.

Problem #2: It's not a Necramech event, it's a Voidrig event

Bonewidow has suffered since release, but this event confirms just how big the disparity is between it and the Voidrig Necramech: even after buffs, its Ironbride doesn't hold a candle to the damage of the Arquebex, and outside of self-sustain, it has nothing going for it in this event that isn't already outperformed by Voidrig. This is without even mentioning that on several tiles, the Orphix spawns out of melee range, rendering the Ironbride useless against it. It's a shame that this event, designed to cater to the game's two Necramechs, only really lets one shine.

Solution: Buff Bonewidow, reposition Orphixes within melee range.

• Really, the major problem here is still Bonewidow, which still needs a little something more to make it shine in this event. There are several ways of going about it, but my two main suggestions would be:
  • Allow Meathook to heal nearby allies (including Necramechs): Given that sustain is the one real concern for Voidrigs, allowing Bonewidow to heal them with hooked enemies would allow the latter to at least contribute as a supporting role.
  • Buff the Ironbride's damage to match that of the Arquebex: Given that the Arquebex is ranged and AoE, there is no reason why the melee alternative should also deal less damage. Choosing between a static turret and a mobile melee combatant should be the tradeoff here, not numbers, especially when the difference is so ridiculously large right now. With this, Bonewidows would still take a little more time than Voidrigs to kill Necramechs, due to the difference in range, but at least they'd be able to bridge the gap and still deal good damage even at high levels.
• Beyond that, it's just plain silly to put Orphixes out of melee range when one of our Necramechs is designed to fight in melee combat. Every Orphix should be within reach of the Ironbride without requiring hovering or jumping, full stop.

Problem #3: It's a time-sensitive, Necramech-centric event that can lock us out of our Necramechs for prolonged periods

Put simply, it sucks to have one's Necramech die and then be locked out of it for a minute while the clock ticks. The "rental" Necramechs are awful and themselves die within seconds past the first few Orphixes on Endurance, so they're not really an alternative, which means that anyone whose mech dies later on gets put in a time-out corner for a while with little else they can do. Given that mechs die even in a squad with four Combat Discipline auras, this means there's a degree of anti-fun baked into the event. This is, by the way, with a calldown timer specially reduced for the event, as the baseline is 3 minutes.

Solution: Allow us to reenter a viable Necramech quicker after destruction. In this particular case I think there are multiple possible ways to go about it:

• Simply remove the calldown timer for this event and let players call down their mech as soon as it dies.
• Have "rental" Necramechs inherit the mod configuration of the equivalent mech that the player owns, so they're at the same power level, and have them spawn/respawn in larger numbers.
• Have Sentient enemies occasionally drop a pickup on death that reduces or resets the cooldown on our Necramech calldown, just like the Heavy Weapon ammo box dropped by certain enemies for our atmospheric Arch-Gun.

Problem #4: It's an event that forces us to sit idly and wait

If the player has a decent Voidrig and/or team, and knows how the Orphix rotation works, killing each Orphix takes only a relatively short time, even at higher levels. Because Orphixes spawn every minute and a half, this creates a very large amount of waiting time, to the point where waiting for the next Orphix can easily make up the majority of time spent in the mission. Even with the bonus score gain during the downtime, this isn't at all exciting, and completely undermines the pressure the Orphixes are meant to place upon the Tenno. The alternative is to specifically prolong each Orphix and try to rack up extra points through Sentient kills, which is itself just very metagame-y and not that thrilling either.

Solution: Rework Orphix spawns and control level changes to put constant pressure on players and naturally reward fast clears. A rough example of this could be the following:

• Only one Orphix spawns at any given time, but the moment the Orphix dies, another spawns, with an ABCB position rotation so that the next Orphix is never too far from the player.
• Orphix control levels per second should increase accordingly, but control should still drop to 0 with each Orphix kill. Players should be racing to kill each Orphix before the timer runs out, but should have a new chance with each new Orphix if they struggle, as opposed to the current situation where players can find themselves overwhelmed by two at a time.

With this, players should be continually rushing through Orphixes with no downtime, which should make for more exciting gameplay than just sitting around in-between kills. Rather than be rewarded bonus points for waiting, faster players would be instead rewarded by accumulating more points in less time, and completing the mission quicker.

Problem #5: It's an event that makes us grind a single mission ad nauseam

This is a pretty common problem with events in Warframe, because most of them are basically just one or two mission types that we're expected to play over and over, often dozens upon dozens of times if we want to get all the rewards. Even when the mission's inherently fun and well-designed, like Dog Days (or, at least, I think it's fun and well-designed), that fun quickly becomes a chore when it overstays its welcome (and, due to how grinding is balanced in Warframe, it always overstays its welcome). This is no different with Orphix Venom, a single mission heavily derived from the Condrix ground mission in Scarlet Spear that takes place in one of three different tilesets.

Solution: Adjust grind to mission variety and integrate future events better with the rest of the game.

• Basically, if the entire content of an event is going to last, say, three hours of play before it gets stale, we should probably not be made to play it for much more than three hours to get all of its rewards. The fact that we're routinely made to grind way past that point is what makes players end up hating otherwise perfectly serviceable bits of content, and often burning out as a result.
• While there's not much that can be done for Orphix Venom itself, given its self-contained structure, it would be better to make future events connect as much as possible to the rest of the game. For example, one other way to encourage our Necramech usage in regular tilesets could have been to have units spawn in regular missions that we'd only be able to see and engage in Necramech mode, who'd then drop event loot and/or currency. Integrating events with the game's main missions and tilesets has three main advantages:
  • Because the event would tie into much more content, there'd be many more diverse ways of participating than just the same mission over and over, which also means more grind could be inserted without burning players out.
  • Because the existing game's larger wealth of content would be the foundation of the event's gameplay, with the right implementation there'd be less work needed to make it work compared to having to create an entirely self-contained mission. The event would also be more likely to feel richer and better-fitting of Warframe as a result, as opposed to the content islands that have defined most recent additions to the game.
  • Because the event would encourage players to replay existing content, it would help bring players back to the game in a way other players can appreciate, instead of corralling them into missions specific to the event, and isolating them from the rest of the game as a result.

While I'm personally not a fan of Necramechs, Orphix Venom I'd say is by no means the worst event in Warframe's history, and has quite a lot going for it (if only because the new rewards can be obtained within a reasonable amount of time). I also think it's a good way of getting players to try out our mechs in regular tilesets, though I do feel it would've worked a lot better if DE had fully enabled the feature and let us use them outside of the event, and across all tilesets.

If DE reads this, I think there's a lot that can be taken from this event to improve future and existing content in Warframe: the shop-and-drop reward structure is something I'd like to see for pretty much every bit of loot in the game, and future content at this point really needs to integrate with the main game, rather than come out as its own island. While the event is already close to ending, if it gets extended (and I think it should, it's also common practice now with new events), I think there are also some relatively easily implementable changes that could make it much more exciting to play, and make Bonewidow a viable pick alongside Voidrig. If you've read through this whole post, thank you for bearing with me, you rock!

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

You are aware that this event is a test for necramechs in missions, so forcing players to use them is justified, as compensation we get rewards from scarlet spear as well as a frame and weapon.

Its likely that DE will add the new frame in a star chart mission or introduce a modified event mission to star chart planet.

[Teridax68]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

You are aware that this event is a test for necramechs in missions, so forcing players to use them is justified, as compensation we get rewards from scarlet spear as well as a frame and weapon.

Its likely that DE will add the new frame in a star chart mission or introduce a modified event mission to star chart planet.

This completely misses the point, as my post makes it very clear that I am in fact aware that the central purpose of this event is to make us use our Necramechs in regular tilesets. My criticism was directed at the specifics of the implementation, i.e. having the event mission disable our Warframes entirely instead of just having segments where we have to use our mechs. Using loot as compensation for unenjoyable gameplay is also not really a good justification in a video game, where the key intent is to have fun.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

This completely misses the point, as my post makes it very clear that I am in fact aware that the central purpose of this event is to make us use our Necramechs in regular tilesets. My criticism was directed at the specifics of the implementation, i.e. having the event mission disable our Warframes entirely instead of just having segments where we have to use our mechs. Using loot as compensation for unenjoyable gameplay is also not really a good justification in a video game, where the key intent is to have fun.

If the loot isnt to your taking for the work done dont do it. The event isnt mandatory. You do have valid points on the cooldown rates though.

Using loot as an incentive to play a new or underused content is standard practice in most games, so i dont believe that will ever go away. Especially since what is "fun content" is very subjective term.

This is a test event so if the community in favour or disfavour the actual mission type DE will take notice for the future. It was same for scarlet spear which was test for squad link.

[Teridax68]

29 minutes ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

If the loot isnt to your taking for the work done dont do it. The event isnt mandatory.

I literally stated within the first sentence of my initial paragraph that I made this post after getting all the rewards. I'm not asking for a handout here, I'm just pointing out that Skinner boxes don't benefit games in the long run when pushed past a certain limit. 

29 minutes ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Using loot as an incentive to play a new or underused content is standard practice in most games, so i dont believe that will ever go away. Especially since what is "fun content" is very subjective term.

It really, really isn't, and I invite you to play games like Doom, Hades, Half-Life, God of War... well, the list goes on. It seems you've fallen into the trap of believing that live service games based on Skinner boxes, themselves a relatively recent development in gaming that have caused significant backlash (among other reasons, because they're often rarely considered truly fun), are the only games that exist.

29 minutes ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

This is a test event so if the community in favour or disfavour the actual mission type DE will take notice for the future. It was same for scarlet spear which was test for squad link.

I think you're confusing things here, because Orphix Venom isn't there to test Orphixes or their missions (because again, Condrixes are pretty much the same deal), it's to test out Necramechs in standard missions, as you mentioned before. It's not a referendum to decide whether players want the feature or not (there's no reason not to), it's a beta test to make sure that their implementation works, at least on the tilesets where they're enabled. This is something I completely agree with, as I believe events are the perfect way to test new content and mechanics, I just think the item could've easily made us test Necramechs in those tilesets without disabling our warframes outright in the process.

[--RV--WhiteWolf]

Scarlet Spear was 4x more rewarding in terms of time spent versus arcanes. 

It's simply better to do fisure missions and sell the loot you get. Buy arcanes. It's cheaper. For a time limited event, the rewards are mediocre at best. 

[PhiThagRaid]

8 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Problem #2: It's not a Necramech event, it's a Voidrig event

I've forma'd my Bonewidow 5 times throughout the even and never needed to use Voidrig, for low rotation runs voidrig is never needed, for higher level runs 1-2 people can easily destroy the Orphixes quick enough.

I will concede that Voidrig is the community decided META, but is not needed, SS had it's own META, but you also didn't have to stick to it to reach the max Condrixes. The Ironbride can be used against Orphixes, but you have many other archguns to use.(sadly DPS reduction calculations make Mausolon the only useful one)

5 minutes ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

Scarlet Spear was 4x more rewarding in terms of time spent versus arcanes. 

Yep, I was able to max all my arcanes with SS, yet so far I can only get 32k worth of loot and it feels like I've put roughly equivalent effort in. The bonus boost for SS really helped out. Let's hope they have some boost activate before the event is over. I do like the loot structure more in terms of being both in mission rotation and the shop, but I think effective rewards has indeed lowered. This might however be intentional, as lots of people who've been playing for more than a year or two will have gotten the arcanes they needed from SS and would now be getting duplicates to sell.

[Teridax68]

Just now, PhiThagRaid said:

I've forma'd my Bonewidow 5 times throughout the even and never needed to use Voidrig, for low rotation runs voidrig is never needed, for higher level runs 1-2 people can easily destroy the Orphixes quick enough.

I will concede that Voidrig is the community decided META, but is not needed, SS had it's own META, but you also didn't have to stick to it to reach the max Condrixes. The Ironbride can be used against Orphixes, but you have many other archguns to use.(sadly DPS reduction calculations make Mausolon the only useful one)

I think even you are implicitly admitting that Voidrig is the better choice, as you yourself acknowledge that Bonewidow only really works at lower levels (when it can even reach the Orphix at all), and further admit that at higher levels you're just expecting the players with the Voidrig to do the work. If the best thing Bonewidow has going for it is that it's not too awful relative to Voidrig under certain very specific conditions (which I'd question, again because of Orphixes spawning out of melee range, and because you do actually need all the Voidrigs you can have to handle Orphixes effectively at the highest levels), I don't think that really argues in the former's favor.

[PhiThagRaid]

58 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I think even you are implicitly admitting that Voidrig is the better choice, as you yourself acknowledge that Bonewidow only really works at lower levels (when it can even reach the Orphix at all), and further admit that at higher levels you're just expecting the players with the Voidrig to do the work. If the best thing Bonewidow has going for it is that it's not too awful relative to Voidrig under certain very specific conditions (which I'd question, again because of Orphixes spawning out of melee range, and because you do actually need all the Voidrigs you can have to handle Orphixes effectively at the highest levels), I don't think that really argues in the former's favor.

That is taking my implication that Voidrig is preferred by many of the community and concluding Bonewidow must not be able to achieve what voidrig can. You seem to be very focused on exalted weapons only, yet without the use of exalted weapons a squad is still able to reach 36. In a pub squad where no one used arquebex we were still able to reach 36. There is a forum thread showing exactly how a bonewidow can still be just as viable as a voidrig. 

Personally I prefer non-DPS builds in Warframe, be that this event, eidolons or half of my time in Scarlet Spear. Thus when doing a preselected group I run fluctus bonewidow, there are 3 other people that have the opportunity to DPS while I get to quickly clear nodes with her higher mobility and the use of the fluctus from time to time, while having more survivability. With a squad of 4 people with the other 3 not having mechs we were able to casually reach 24 orphixes with a mausolon. 

There seems to be a disproportionate amount of emphasis put on purely exalted weapons. Each mech has stat variations and 3 other abilities that also effect how they play. Voidrig has: a cc grenade, a shield and smaller grenades, Bonewidow has: healing/cc, shield and cc. If you aren't running a squad with combat discipline there is no way for voidrig to heal. Both shields are roughly equivalent in the event, but the healing and bonewidow's ability to cancel enemy attacks I find much more useful than grenades. 

Perhaps the view that the voidrig is the only thing that seems good is the community's focus on always being able to solo content, voidrig is better at that in this situation,  and many just seem too focused on what is META.

Voidrig solo can dispense the damage, but not take it. Bonewidow somewhat the reverse, yet can still do enough damage based on another thread. In squads the difference becomes less meaningful, both are able to deal out damage and both are able to survive,  be it through killing or ccing. With 2 people in a squad you should already have enough damage without exalted weapons.

(And the only reason I mentioned lower levels at all was because I am farming the Nechramech mods that drop in the first 2 rotations and thus are considered low rotations. Completing the event also doesn't require you to reach past 3 rotations.)

Regarding the point that meathook should heal others, perhaps, although you seem to disregard the effective DR it brings to a team. See a sentient going into spin-to-win near the voidrigs, just hook'em. 100% DR.

[Teridax68]

5 minutes ago, PhiThagRaid said:

That is taking my implication that Voidrig is preferred by many of the community and concluding Bonewidow must not be able to achieve what voidrig can. You seem to be very focused on exalted weapons only, yet without the use of exalted weapons a squad is still able to reach 36. In a pub squad where no one used arquebex we were still able to reach 36. There is a forum thread showing exactly how a bonewidow can still be just as viable as a voidrig. 

And how exactly were the conditions under which they reached 36? Because I'm willing to bet that the score wasn't as good as if people were to use the Arquebex. There's an emphasis on Exalted weapons precisely because the Arquebex's damage is so massive that it's the main factor in clearing Orphixes quickly, especially at later levels. Bonewidow can never even remotely approach that amount of damage, and just because you can still do a full run while handicapping yourself does not mean that picking the better option won't net you an easier mission and a higher score. That is why Voidrig is the meta choice, and why people take Combat Discipline to make up for its lack of self-sustain. Ultimately, viability isn't simply about being able to do the thing, it's about being able to do the thing effectively, and I don't think even you can deny there's a clear difference in effectiveness between Voidrig and Bonewidow when it comes to running the event mission. This is why people exclusively go for Voidrig, Fluctus, and 4xCombat Discipline when trying to get the most out of a 36-Orphix Endurance run (and good luck trying to get all those rewards with only low rotations numbers per mission).

11 minutes ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Regarding the point that meathook should heal others, perhaps, although you seem to disregard the effective DR it brings to a team. See a sentient going into spin-to-win near the voidrigs, just hook'em. 100% DR.

Against a single enemy in a crowded environment full of other threats, including multiple other instances of that same enemy. Sure.