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Give completionists a chance to hit the cap of current Nightwave


Radu10

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2 minutes ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Okay, so if you were to just pretend that the number didn't exist, you would be happy? The 180 cap makes it effectively endless due to 180 being unreachable(by what you have stated). Making it 100% endless would make some sense, yet is not needed as long as the cap is slightly higher than the absolute maximum you can reach. This cap is most likely still in place to prevent people exploiting the endless nature. I have seen screenshots with people having millions of points due to exploits, thus without a cap they would gain all the creds from the exploit, with the cap(which should be impossible to reach) the damage caused by the exploit is limited.

What you're saying here is, exploiters should be allowed to earn what everyone else is functionally not allowed to, but just not as much extra as they could without a limit.

Yeah, that's no consolation. It's not even about what we earn, anyway. It's about rounding out that nice perfected number as its own reward. We will always see that number when we look at the Nightwave seasons. We will always know it's not on that completion breakpoint.

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Just now, TheLexiConArtist said:

What you're saying here is, exploiters should be allowed to earn what everyone else is functionally not allowed to, but just not as much extra as they could without a limit.

Wow, thanks for twisting my words.

If there is an exploit, do you prefer it to be infinitely exploitable or only finitely exploitable? Obviously it is better for it to not be exploitable at all, wanting to be equal to those who have exploited something just to have a round number is a weird obsession.

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3 minutes ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Wow, thanks for twisting my words.

If there is an exploit, do you prefer it to be infinitely exploitable or only finitely exploitable? Obviously it is better for it to not be exploitable at all, wanting to be equal to those who have exploited something just to have a round number is a weird obsession.

If they didn't overextend the cap beyond achievable or gave us ways to now achieve the cap as is, the exploitative standing would be meaningless and earnings would be equal to those who play by the normal rates of gain.

I didn't twist your words, I extrapolated. It's not a nice result, no, and you may not have intended it, but that's still the logical outcome that follows.

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1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Okay, so if you were to just pretend that the number didn't exist, you would be happy? The 180 cap makes it effectively endless due to 180 being unreachable(by what you have stated). Making it 100% endless would make some sense, yet is not needed as long as the cap is slightly higher than the absolute maximum you can reach. This cap is most likely still in place to prevent people exploiting the endless nature. I have seen screenshots with people having millions of points due to exploits, thus without a cap they would gain all the creds from the exploit, with the cap(which should be impossible to reach) the damage caused by the exploit is limited.

If you were playing the game without looking up what the cap is, then you would've never known there was a cap (if they had the 180 ranks planned out from the start and not slowly added them due to the slow pace of NWS3).

Why we have to pretend this? It's impossible now 'cause we had no idea when the season started we would end up in this situation where a 700 hours farm is needed

Also what if everyone has creds for more nitains (as i said i don't need anything that is on sale there), will this change the game economy? Am i missing something?

We know there is a cap 'cause we played and enjoyed reaching it in past seasons, and we can't like that type of change all of the sudden with no given motivation.
You say they did that on purpose, but I think they just decided to end the season 'cause people wanted it to end, without considering the new cap they put not long ago (knowing DE that's what happened), and people who cares about it could not notice that and stay silent about it

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48 minutes ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Wow, thanks for twisting my words.

If there is an exploit, do you prefer it to be infinitely exploitable or only finitely exploitable? Obviously it is better for it to not be exploitable at all, wanting to be equal to those who have exploited something just to have a round number is a weird obsession.

Also there is no nw exploit, so idk where you got that info, if you're was an hypothesis, this scenario doesn't exist at all, when this series ends we will probably see 1 guy with rank 180 'cause he had the crazy idea to farm cephalites from start of this series for total 800 hours, and that's the reality.

I do not agree with this, 'cause it never happened in old series, so why it should start now?

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1 hour ago, Radu10 said:

You never pressed "tune in" in nw menu?

I suggest you hitting it

So it shows the rank of previous NWs beyond 30? Cool, never bothered since I've gotten the important stuff by rank 30 eitherway. Then by looking there you'd also know why you dont have the Glassmaker ranks filled to 180, since it simply isnt possible.

1 hour ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

That's no excuse. We know it had a cap, therefore we want to reach it. They extended but did not unlimit the cap, therefore we should be able to achieve the new limit.

No really you shouldnt unless DE intended for it to be so. It has already been delayed long enough and I'm fairly sure the people that must (in their opinion) grind out all available ranks are in an extreme minority over those that want it to end so a new NW can eventually start. I'm not really keen on waiting so someone can fill a pointless number goal when a new NW, even intermission, would grant actual rewards for reaching those pointless numbers that follow eachother on an interface line.

I never actually expected a thread demanding a NW to be delayed further, but hey, it's the WF forums, if you can complain about something you do it. DE is really in a "damned if I do, damned if I dont" situation regarding pretty much everything in the game. Kinda sad and hilarious at the same time.

edit: And to be clear, 180 is achievable if you were really serious about it to begin with since no one is stopping you from grinding glassed enemies and the end of the NW has been known for a long while. It isnt really DE's fault that people waited until the official announcement of the exact date. It's a maximum of 7 days lost if you planned for it to end on Jan 31 (since it is a sunday) based on the first announcement of the end month for NW. So you are really making a mountain out of a sandgrain here since you should have already prepared because you should have known "end of Jan" for quite some time.

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23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So it shows the rank of previous NWs beyond 30? Cool, never bothered since I've gotten the important stuff by rank 30 eitherway. Then by looking there you'd also know why you dont have the Glassmaker ranks filled to 180, since it simply isnt possible.

No really you shouldnt unless DE intended for it to be so. It has already been delayed long enough and I'm fairly sure the people that must (in their opinion) grind out all available ranks are in an extreme minority over those that want it to end so a new NW can eventually start. I'm not really keen on waiting so someone can fill a pointless number goal when a new NW, even intermission, would grant actual rewards for reaching those pointless numbers that follow eachother on an interface line.

I never actually expected a thread demanding a NW to be delayed further, but hey, it's the WF forums, if you can complain about something you do it. DE is really in a "damned if I do, damned if I dont" situation regarding pretty much everything in the game. Kinda sad and hilarious at the same time.

Okok, first of all, it was possible if we knew when the series ended when it started, we could plan farming those cephalites and now maybe we could barely hit the cap, do this in 2 week is not possible.

Second, nobody here is suggesting or demanding to delay this series, I get bored of it even more than you, (my suggestion is make farm cephalites worth it) but I am still there saying that this feels wrong to me.

Everything in a game can become a challenge, and you can't say or define it pointless, if you want get a frame with 100 forma on it, and would complain there u can't get that number higher I'd not come under it saying: "your post is useless 'cause nobody cares", or "it's just a pointless number goal u had in mind, move on".

If you can't hear or stand those posts you are just selfish and only want see posts that might interest you, and that attitude is hella wrong

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6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No really you shouldnt unless DE intended for it to be so. It has already been delayed long enough and I'm fairly sure the people that must (in their opinion) grind out all available ranks are in an extreme minority over those that want it to end so a new NW can eventually start. I'm not really keen on waiting so someone can fill a pointless number goal when a new NW, even intermission, would grant actual rewards for reaching those pointless numbers that follow eachother on an interface line.

I never actually expected a thread demanding a NW to be delayed further, but hey, it's the WF forums, if you can complain about something you do it. DE is really in a "damned if I do, damned if I dont" situation regarding pretty much everything in the game. Kinda sad and hilarious at the same time.

There's no reason to set a cap at all unless you expect it to be reachable (and without exploits, as explained previously). Per that logic and the previous seasons/intermissions setting the consistent trend, DE does intend players to be able to reach the cap, they just.. didn't quite do the maths right when they threw in the extraneous ranks with this one going on so much farther. If they'd gone for a 45 bump instead of 60 on their last one, we'd be right around expectations now.

OP asked for Cephalite values to be increased as a final catch-up, not for another extension. But just as a point of reference for that, in the current values, it would take 121 hours of attending Glass Fissure timers to equal 1 additional week of task standing (which take probably 2 hours or so to clear up). That is not a good conversion rate for time you have to grind out if you wanted to hit the cap.

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1 minute ago, Radu10 said:

Okok, first of all, it was possbile if we knew when the series ended when it started, we could plan farming those cephalites and now maybe we could barely hit the cap, do this in 2 week is not possible.

Second, nobody here is suggesting or demanding to delay this series, I get bored of it even more than you, but I am still there saying that this feels wrong to me.

Everything in a game can become a challenge, and you can't say or define it pointless, if you want get a frame with 100 forma on it, and would complain there 'cause u can't get that number higher i would not come saying your post is useless 'cause nobody cares, it's just a pointless number goal u had in mind.

If you can't hear or stand those posts you are just selfish and only want see posts that might interest you, and that attitude is hella wrong

No, knowing from the start wouldnt change a thing, since the ranks have been added gradually. The last 60 ranks were added Nov 19th with the notification that it would also end in Jan 2021. And patches prior to that also made it clear that all standing gained if you hit the cap would be retroactive if ranks are added. You've known about the end date for 2 full months ahead if you've kepts up with patch notes just a little. 

So you just suggest that they should go in and waste time on code that will be gone in about 2 weeks, meaning that the console crowd will see no opportunity to get it most likely either. And you claim that I have a bad attitude? People have such an easy time throwing around the "just do..." without probably knowing what is actually involved in "just" doing something in game development.

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9 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

There's no reason to set a cap at all unless you expect it to be reachable (and without exploits, as explained previously). Per that logic and the previous seasons/intermissions setting the consistent trend, DE does intend players to be able to reach the cap, they just.. didn't quite do the maths right when they threw in the extraneous ranks with this one going on so much farther. If they'd gone for a 45 bump instead of 60 on their last one, we'd be right around expectations now.

OP asked for Cephalite values to be increased as a final catch-up, not for another extension. But just as a point of reference for that, in the current values, it would take 121 hours of attending Glass Fissure timers to equal 1 additional week of task standing (which take probably 2 hours or so to clear up). That is not a good conversion rate for time you have to grind out if you wanted to hit the cap.

"If they'd gone for a 45 bump", uhm you do realize the most likely situation is that NW ranks come in instances of 30 just to simplify coding etc? So DE wanted the period covered, 30 ranks wouldnt do it but 60 ranks would cover it all the way to Jan 31 if needed, with only the extreme grinders hitting the cap.

The conversion rate doesnt matter since it is all optional.

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Just now, SneakyErvin said:

No, knowing from the start wouldnt change a thing, since the ranks have been added gradually. The last 60 ranks were added Nov 19th with the notification that it would also end in Jan 2021. And patches prior to that also made it clear that all standing gained if you hit the cap would be retroactive if ranks are added. You've known about the end date for 2 full months ahead if you've kepts up with patch notes just a little. 

So you just suggest that they should go in and waste time on code that will be gone in about 2 weeks, meaning that the console crowd will see no opportunity to get it most likely either. And you claim that I have a bad attitude? People have such an easy time throwing around the "just do..." without probably knowing what is actually involved in "just" doing something in game development.

If they had an end date they could put all ranks in without gradually adding them, but that was obvious, in my previous message...

Waste time? Changing a number by adding a 0 in the end? Yeah it's not easy to do...
You are just here talking nosense, you aren't contributing at all, so you are saying the actual NW system is perfect?
You can't make suggestions as well instead trying make points in invalid arguments, treating subjective arguments like they are objective and need to be necessarily right about it?

Just move on, flaming and trying roast someone else, this is not the right post to do it...

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Just now, SneakyErvin said:

"If they'd gone for a 45 bump", uhm you do realize the most likely situation is that NW ranks come in instances of 30 just to simplify coding etc? So DE wanted the period covered, 30 ranks wouldnt do it but 60 ranks would cover it all the way to Jan 31 if needed, with only the extreme grinders hitting the cap.

The conversion rate doesnt matter since it is all optional.

The whole game is "optional", there isn't something you had to do or you die, another pointless comment.

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6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not really the optional I was refering to. But if you wanna go down that route we might aswell stop there.

Good for me, I just want some DE mods or developers notice this post, then they can do whatever they want, idc if other players with my same goals have same opinion or not

Will probably repost this in the suggestion area next week, it's fair to do for myself and for all the others who like me cares about that "score"

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9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So you just suggest that they should go in and waste time on code that will be gone in about 2 weeks, meaning that the console crowd will see no opportunity to get it most likely either. And you claim that I have a bad attitude? People have such an easy time throwing around the "just do..." without probably knowing what is actually involved in "just" doing something in game development.

They have no problem giving consoles benefits over PC players in the past, so I don't think they're in a position to argue high ground if they lack this.

But it's also very unlikely that a simple value-change on standing per Cephalite would be a cert-requiring code update.

Alternatively, since the timer is globally sourced, there's a good chance they could choose to accelerate gains that way instead if necessary.. hilarious as it would be seeing reactions of people'already sick of Glass enemies dealing with them spawning every couple minutes instead of every 25.

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

"If they'd gone for a 45 bump", uhm you do realize the most likely situation is that NW ranks come in instances of 30 just to simplify coding etc? So DE wanted the period covered, 30 ranks wouldnt do it but 60 ranks would cover it all the way to Jan 31 if needed, with only the extreme grinders hitting the cap.

Intermission 1 had 15 ranks, precedent of below-30 there. What 'simplification' of coding are you dreaming up? It's not like either are divisible by the truly arbitrary 4.35 ranks available per week of tasks, and they're still both instanced by typing a whopping two characters.

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1 minute ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

They have no problem giving consoles benefits over PC players in the past, so I don't think they're in a position to argue high ground if they lack this.

But it's also very unlikely that a simple value-change on standing per Cephalite would be a cert-requiring code update.

Alternatively, since the timer is globally sourced, there's a good chance they could choose to accelerate gains that way instead if necessary.. hilarious as it would be seeing reactions of people'already sick of Glass enemies dealing with them spawning every couple minutes instead of every 25.

Intermission 1 had 15 ranks, precedent of below-30 there. What 'simplification' of coding are you dreaming up? It's not like either are divisible by the truly arbitrary 4.35 ranks available per week of tasks, and they're still both instanced by typing a whopping two characters.

They are since NW was supposed to be equal, hence why it releases and ends at the same time. We dont know and it isnt about the cert only, these things need to be handed to someone, which means that person stops doing whatever they are working on. If this was earlier during NW I wouldnt see an issue, but this is after the actual NW has ended and with only 2 weeks left and regarding something that could have been planned for by the player asking for it already since it has been known for 2 months already, with prior increases also rewarding rankings retroactively.

And yes, they could increase glass rate, but it wouldnt be a solution since it again wouldnt be for everybody. Most of us got fed up with glassed enemies after episode 1.

IM 1 was handcrafted, since it was 15 ranks as a whole. Not the same as adding more ranks to an exsisting NW. The whole intermission also had completely different act standing rewards compared to normal NW, since it only lasted for a month.

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2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

They are since NW was supposed to be equal, hence why it releases and ends at the same time. We dont know and it isnt about the cert only, these things need to be handed to someone, which means that person stops doing whatever they are working on. If this was earlier during NW I wouldnt see an issue, but this is after the actual NW has ended and with only 2 weeks left and regarding something that could have been planned for by the player asking for it already since it has been known for 2 months already, with prior increases also rewarding rankings retroactively.

And yes, they could increase glass rate, but it wouldnt be a solution since it again wouldnt be for everybody. Most of us got fed up with glassed enemies after episode 1.

IM 1 was handcrafted, since it was 15 ranks as a whole. Not the same as adding more ranks to an exsisting NW. The whole intermission also had completely different act standing rewards compared to normal NW, since it only lasted for a month.

'Supposed' to be equal? And, let's see... Are slots not supposed to be equally platinum-priced? Because Consoles got to capitalise on the advance warning to grind out freebies back when Archweapon slots got limited in a surprise screw-you update to PC. Scarlet Spear earnings were 'supposed' to be equal, yet our awfully buggy first week limited ours, so DE gave us an extra.. which consoles also got, despite having the fixed scoring/earnings from day 1, giving them an advantage.
It's a single change to a variable. I could invariably (ha) do it in 5 minutes and I've never seen the codebase. Ctrl-F for mention of nightwave/cephalites, find the bit that says '30' (standing per enemy), increase 30 to a better value. Most trivial change. Even Warframe's impressively spaghetti code can't screw that one up.

We had no idea that they'd extend the ranks without making it achievable. They gave an ending date which is never a guarantee. One more week (Jan 31) would still cut a significant chunk of grinding time off, while providing more time to grind, and still be 'ending in January' by narrow margin. Requiring my 320 fissure hours over 2 months is still 22.2% of that entire period spent grinding away at it. Is that reasonable? While running an event where they don't spawn, also?

As for intermission 1 being 'hand crafted'.. so are the arbitrary increases to prestige, and they don't need to be filled out with unique rewards, it's a copy-paste 15 creds. You're absolutely grasping at straws there.

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The issue now is they decided the end date without considering the current cap and how much standing people could get just by doing all acts 

They always considered this 'cause in other seasons in that tracker website I posted the total standing reported "matched" with last added cap. So most of people hit it last week.

Some people hit it a week before and ones who not reached it simply didn't cared of doing extra ranks.

And that situation was good and ideal for everyone. I'm against how and why they managed this so differently 

I'm also sure in S1 and S2 the dudes that could spawn gave a lot more standing than this S3

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4 minutes ago, Radu10 said:

I'm also sure in S1 and S2 the dudes that could spawn gave a lot more standing than this S3

I completely forget details about standing gains from rando spawns of Season 2, but I do remember the Wolf's boys in Season 1 got to benefit from the Thermia Fractures double-everything booster.

That might or might not still apply with fracture re-runs to current, but since few people actually go out and farm a bunch of fractures these days, the 'control' never scales up to the full boosting necessary.

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9 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

I completely forget details about standing gains from rando spawns of Season 2, but I do remember the Wolf's boys in Season 1 got to benefit from the Thermia Fractures double-everything booster.

That might or might not still apply with fracture re-runs to current, but since few people actually go out and farm a bunch of fractures these days, the 'control' never scales up to the full boosting necessary.

Just checked wiki

On S2 after act4 you could get 200 each time they spawned plus 3k standing by doing 2 times at day the boss mission.

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4 hours ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

'Supposed' to be equal? And, let's see... Are slots not supposed to be equally platinum-priced? Because Consoles got to capitalise on the advance warning to grind out freebies back when Archweapon slots got limited in a surprise screw-you update to PC. Scarlet Spear earnings were 'supposed' to be equal, yet our awfully buggy first week limited ours, so DE gave us an extra.. which consoles also got, despite having the fixed scoring/earnings from day 1, giving them an advantage.
It's a single change to a variable. I could invariably (ha) do it in 5 minutes and I've never seen the codebase. Ctrl-F for mention of nightwave/cephalites, find the bit that says '30' (standing per enemy), increase 30 to a better value. Most trivial change. Even Warframe's impressively spaghetti code can't screw that one up.

We had no idea that they'd extend the ranks without making it achievable. They gave an ending date which is never a guarantee. One more week (Jan 31) would still cut a significant chunk of grinding time off, while providing more time to grind, and still be 'ending in January' by narrow margin. Requiring my 320 fissure hours over 2 months is still 22.2% of that entire period spent grinding away at it. Is that reasonable? While running an event where they don't spawn, also?

As for intermission 1 being 'hand crafted'.. so are the arbitrary increases to prestige, and they don't need to be filled out with unique rewards, it's a copy-paste 15 creds. You're absolutely grasping at straws there.

We're talking the intent of Nightwave here and nothing else. NW is indeed supposed to be fully equal, which it currently is.

And I'm not grasping at any straws. The 30 prestige ranks are handcrafted once, the first time they were developed, adding a 15 or 45 version of it would be a new hand crafted prestige ladder since they arent added in single segments but in full 30 rank segments by the looks of it. It also doesnt matter if you could do it in 5 minutes, it would still be 5 minutes they likely already have to spend elsewhere on actually uhm... important stuff, that wont disappear in 2 weeks. Or do you think someone should do it on their spare time outside of the tasks they've already been asigned for future content?

And I'm fairly sure you knew that they would release ranks that werent achievable, since it was known the same day that the last ranks were added. People should have done the math then and not now 2 weeks prior to NW ending. Guess that it wasnt really a high priority in the first place if you guys didnt bother until around 2 months later to raise the "concern" about it. Because I dont think it took nearly 2 months to come up with the math.

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

We're talking the intent of Nightwave here and nothing else. NW is indeed supposed to be fully equal, which it currently is.

And I'm not grasping at any straws. The 30 prestige ranks are handcrafted once, the first time they were developed, adding a 15 or 45 version of it would be a new hand crafted prestige ladder since they arent added in single segments but in full 30 rank segments by the looks of it. It also doesnt matter if you could do it in 5 minutes, it would still be 5 minutes they likely already have to spend elsewhere on actually uhm... important stuff, that wont disappear in 2 weeks. Or do you think someone should do it on their spare time outside of the tasks they've already been asigned for future content?

And I'm fairly sure you knew that they would release ranks that werent achievable, since it was known the same day that the last ranks were added. People should have done the math then and not now 2 weeks prior to NW ending. Guess that it wasnt really a high priority in the first place if you guys didnt bother until around 2 months later to raise the "concern" about it. Because I dont think it took nearly 2 months to come up with the math.

Even if done 2 months ago, it would have been impossible this time, like I posted I would need 760 hours farming cephalites (probably a lot more 2 months ago so let's say 800 hours), with a consistent spawn rate (it's not), you could manage do that in 2 months?

Also you saying they do more important stuff instead of lose 5 minutes fix this, well it seems you don't check changelogs so often and the bugs reported weeks before updates...

Every patch so many fix for "useless" stuff when there are reported bugs weeks before with an highly priority to be solved. Some of them still unfixed this day.

Do you know if you get the same recovered act in nightwave twice it appears on the warframe application but you can't see it ingame and can't complete it so u need wait next week, so new act appears and that one isn't duplicated anymore so it shows up as intended. And guess what, people reported it myself included during intermission 2, and still UNFIXED!

I also do not want mention railjack, to get you lose more points on this argument about DE's priority in patching things...

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14 hours ago, Radu10 said:

Hello, 3 days ago I found out nightwave series 3 will end 24th of January (finally...), I played this whole series, and I'm actually at rank 151, when series will end I will be at rank 161/180 by doing every single weekly acts and most of daily ones.

So where is the problem there?
Well the only way left to earn more standing is killing cephalites, those enemies can randomly spawn during missions, the time is really random, but it seems there might be a consistency of getting a glass fissure every 25 minutes approximately. Each "wave" from a glass fissure is worth 150 total standing, considering I would need get 19 more nw ranks, it means I need 19*10000 total standing, so I have to clear 1267 total glass fissures to hit the cap.

Now considering on average I manage to get 750 standing (5 waves) in 3 hours, how many hours will be needed to hit the cap? Around 760 hours!!!

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So please buff the standing gained from cephalites, like 1000 or 1500 from each glass fissure wave, or some other ways you might think of.
Of course before this series will end, not much time left...

I totally agree with you. Completionists feel comfortable and happiness when hit the cap, not irritated.

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