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Veterans are there any nerfs or changes you would like to see reverted.


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Undo Ash blade storm rework , in the current state you have to mark enemy's one by one which is time consuming not to mention you have to be able to spot enemy before it gets killed by your team mate , on top he's augment teleport or just plains weapons can do the same job in the same amount of time .

This makes he's ability borderline useless .

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2 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

Undo Ash blade storm rework , in the current state you have to mark enemy's one by one which is time consuming not to mention you have to be able to spot enemy before it gets killed by your team mate

Yes and no.

Yes for the mechanics but no for it including his issues and ppl complaining that they can get any kills coz Ash is killing.

People are blinded by his bs`s damage that they completely miss the issues he has like his teleport can`t consistently open humanoid enemies up for finishers which ppl hide this bug by using the augment. I keep on saying it to ppl, go take Ash to a normal Earth defence mission with a team and use bs, you will instantly see the issues it has.

 

On top of what you said here is a list of Ash`s bs issues;

Spoiler

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Because of the synergy between his 2nd & 4th ability, you are forced to mod for duration to benefit from using less energy for bs since most people are not going to use bs while it`s taking more energy.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

 

·       The marking mechanic makes the ability ineffective in close-quarter, tight spaces which is what  the majority of the tilesets are, this makes the ability less effective and mostly useless even more so it a team.

 

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

 

With all this, Ash needs a revisit, here is my version of a revisit that addresses all his issues and improve his abilities overall.

 

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The main thing I want reverted is how weapon swapping between melee and ranged functions. Currently you have to re-enable melee mode every single time you swap to ranged weapons which is annoying since it requires holding the key down. Previously, you could just tap the button and it would switch between your equipped weapons. There's already the ability to swap to melee without enabling melee mode by using quick melee.

I personally don't like using RMB to ever swap to ranged weapons and this is one of the things I always changed in any game that is set up this way (i,.e some AC games). It's also easy for me to lose track of it in some scenarios, especially when some actions disable melee mode so I'll randomly swap to me ranged weapon unintentionally. To me this forced changed is as bad as when they forced heavy attacks to hold LMB for a while.

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Undo the changes they did to RJ that made side-guns worthless and make Veil enemies difficult again.

Bring overall melee damage output back down to the way they were prior to the stance change update (keep the stance changes though)

Edited by (XBOX)Calliber
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7 hours ago, Chewarette said:

- Limbo rework sucks. Sure, Limbo pre-rework sucked too, but at least you felt Limbo was supposed to be master of the rift and not its slave.

Limbo in general is just a hot mess. I think that of all the Warframes in the game, Limbo is the one with the most issues at a CONCEPTUAL level. To the point where I honestly don't know what would fix his fundamental issues; particularly in terms of team play.

(Note: That's NOT the same as me saying he's bad/ineffective. More that by design, he has some pitfalls in terms of teamplay that need to be accounted for.)

Edited by Ryusuta
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On 2021-01-10 at 6:42 PM, GEN-Son_17 said:

WHAT!? Ember is an absolute MONSTER now!! Hard to kill, hits like a train, perfect augments, armor stripper, status proc master...what is there to miss?

Good call on suggesting making the current Ember a different frame if reverting though. That always reminds me of an old idea I had that gave the primes the reworks and allowed the standard frames to keep their old setups.

I love Ember the way she is now, she is almost the perfect frame, great offense, defense, energy management, design (Graxx Skin obvs), and i also Subsumed Pocket Sand for her 1 (great CC/Stun, fast and cheap, and health regen).

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Bring back self damage. The way it is now is absurd, I can equip Prime Sure Footed and fire the Bramma or other grenade weapon at my feet, kill all the enemies around me and take no damage, no stagger, no downside at all other than looking stupid. 

Edited by 3rdpig
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Coptering. I miss using it for fun. Just bringing fastest melee possible with taking into account the speed of holstering the weapons as well for making fast zooms. Dual Zoren were op coptering machines.

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On 2021-01-09 at 9:56 PM, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

The issue there I think is that it actively hurt the damage of explosive weapons, as you couldn't get Headshots while the enemy was on the ground.

However, you could easily just give that back to Blast and just make enemies on the ground take 25% extra damage from all Blast sources per Blast Proc. Maybe make it so enemies that get successful Blast Procs explode on death, dealing a portion of your Blast damage in a small AoE around them to help mop up stragglers. More procs increase the Range. You could also make it so each Blast Proc itself has a chance of causing a secondary, halved Range explosion, with the more procs you get increasing that chance. 

Anything's better than an accuracy debuff really. I still can't believe DE chose that over knockdown.

My suggestion has always been:

* Revert blast to knock down enemies.

* Make all enemies take headshot damage regardless where you hit them when they are knocked down.

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9 hours ago, Ryusuta said:

Limbo in general is just a hot mess. I think that of all the Warframes in the game, Limbo is the one with the most issues at a CONCEPTUAL level. To the point where I honestly don't know what would fix his fundamental issues; particularly in terms of team play.

(Note: That's NOT the same as me saying he's bad/ineffective. More that by design, he has some pitfalls in terms of teamplay that need to be accounted for.)

He's very good in team play because of what he can do. But it has to be a pre-made team, not a pub. Limbo is not a beginner friendly warframe. He has a learning curve so he's not for noobs. To this day, you will see threads with titles like "Limbo bug, can't pick up items, deal damage" etc. The game doesn't have very good tutorials and he is the only warframe that needs a tutorial.

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4 hours ago, (PSN)mahoshonenfox said:

He's very good in team play because of what he can do. But it has to be a pre-made team, not a pub. Limbo is not a beginner friendly warframe. He has a learning curve so he's not for noobs. To this day, you will see threads with titles like "Limbo bug, can't pick up items, deal damage" etc. The game doesn't have very good tutorials and he is the only warframe that needs a tutorial.

It's written in his post he never said he was bad. He's good, but his design have problems, mostly his 3 imo which doesn't make sense and is uncontrollable. Stasis sucks for other reasons - it's godlike yes, but I despise this ability due to how lame it makes the game, even since they removed the "frozen time for firearms too" nonsense.

OT: another thing that I miss is TBoltace. It was... good. Good at opening crates and applying slash DoT, eventually killing level 10 enemies. Its nerf was not really deserved, and I've yet to see anyone use it anymore, which is proof their "rework" is ineffective, as nobody cares about its new way of work and it's more an annoyance than something you play around.

What was maybe problematic at the time was with Relentless Combination (additional combo when slash status hits), which made him reach high Combo quite fast, but with the Combo rework cumulated with the Status reworks, I cannot believe it'd be "cheated" nowadays.

Edited by Chewarette
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10 hours ago, xxswatelitexx said:

2019 they Removed 6 DoF and nerfed Iztal Blink, added Blink to all Archwings. 

What is DoF(Depth of field)?
I was about the movement system itself before the adding of blink to archwings. How you could perform loopings and rotate however you want. Now you are always horizontally aligned no matter if you want it or not and with no inertia etc. the archwing flight is much more usable but way less fun.  

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3 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

What is DoF(Depth of field)?
I was about the movement system itself before the adding of blink to archwings. How you could perform loopings and rotate however you want. Now you are always horizontally aligned no matter if you want it or not and with no inertia etc. the archwing flight is much more usable but way less fun.  

Ya that was 6 DoF - also known as 6 Degrees of Freedom. 

That wasn't the original flight model it was added in 2018 and people hated it. Warframe Devs thought it was a phase where people don't like new things and kept it around for 6ish months, but people continued to hate it. Eventually it was removed and the original flight model was brought back with minor tweaks. 

Though they did mention something like there would be a toggle but I don't think it was ever added,

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11 minutes ago, xxswatelitexx said:

Ya that was 6 DoF - also known as 6 Degrees of Freedom. 

That wasn't the original flight model it was added in 2018 and people hated it. Warframe Devs thought it was a phase where people don't like new things and kept it around for 6ish months, but people continued to hate it. Eventually it was removed and the original flight model was brought back with minor tweaks. 

Though they did mention something like there would be a toggle but I don't think it was ever added,

It was more then 6 months(more like a year or more I think, because it didn't change in my first year of playing), but yea, I want this back. ^^

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I would personally love it for the reverted the "Fix" on Proton Pulse so that it works indefinitely again. 😁

On 2021-01-09 at 10:32 PM, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Someone is probably going to mention Bramma and Xoris

I can't speak for the Bramma... But reverting the Xoris Nerf is something that still wouldn't make me happy because it was a band aid to begin with. That's what needs to get fixed first.

On 2021-01-09 at 10:39 PM, kgabor said:

Daikyu got a damage nerf too in favor of fire rate, but i don't think there was really any point to it.

Didn't it also get a Flight Speed buff too ?

In any case I don't know how I feel about the Charge Rate change.... Before and After I still use Vile Acceleration.

On 2021-01-09 at 10:40 PM, That1Cactus said:

I want Blast Procs to return to being able to knockdown enemies. It was the most enjoyable thing about the status.
Blast is now just, nothing.

Preach !!!!

And while we're at it I want them to undo whatever they did to the Zenistar....  

On 2021-01-09 at 10:45 PM, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

There was a nerf to Cataclysm for Limbo aaaggggeeesss ago that I still feel overnerfed it for no reason. The ability was supposed to have some damage aspects to it, and DE effectively removed all of them when it would have been best to remove one of the factors. Removing one would have fixed the instant-room nuking but would still have allowed it to deal some modicum of damage, however that is now not the case.

Why would you want Limbo to deal Damage 😱 ?

This is one of the things that bugs me the most about Booben's rework... He's better at killing now... Which is absolutely not something I wanted 😥.

Personally as long as Limbo keeps his Rift Shenanigans I think he's fine since that's what makes him unique.

On 2021-01-09 at 10:56 PM, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

The issue there I think is that it actively hurt the damage of explosive weapons, as you couldn't get Headshots while the enemy was on the ground.

I think a nice solution to that would be to just give it the Arca Plasmor treatment by removing Head Shot multiplier... And give Double the Base Damage instead.... That way you can just shoot those jerks while they're lying on the floor.... 

On 2021-01-09 at 11:05 PM, Teliko_Freedman said:

Ivara Bullet Jump while in prowl.

I'm glad I atleast got to Experience this before it was nerfed. 

In any case I was thinking.... Since Ivara doesn't lose Prowl on Dashwire and runs pretty fast on it....  Making Dashwire's Cast Speed and Attachment Speed faster and less Finicky can serve as a nice Substitute for Bullet Jump.

On 2021-01-14 at 3:14 PM, xxswatelitexx said:

Bring back Limbos Original 3rd ability. 

This LIttle Void Bomb thing is just terrible. 

Hang on.... Did Limbo get reworked recently ? Is Rift Surge Gone ? 😱

6 hours ago, Chewarette said:

OT: another thing that I miss is TBoltace. It was... good. Good at opening crates and applying slash DoT, eventually killing level 10 enemies. Its nerf was not really deserved, and I've yet to see anyone use it anymore, which is proof their "rework" is ineffective, as nobody cares about its new way of work and it's more an annoyance than something you play around.

I equip it.... But I never use it 😝 .... I don't know anybody who does.

 

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4 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Hang on.... Did Limbo get reworked recently ? Is Rift Surge Gone ? 😱

 

The ability was always called Rift Surge, but how it functioned before is different than how it functions now. 

Before what 3rd ability used to do was be a damage multiplied to every enemy inside the  Void Rift now what it does is charge enemies with Void energy then when they die it explodes spreading it to other people. So you could time stop multiple enemies in a chain reaction.

 

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5 hours ago, xxswatelitexx said:

The ability was always called Rift Surge, but how it functioned before is different than how it functions now. 

Before what 3rd ability used to do was be a damage multiplied to every enemy inside the  Void Rift now what it does is charge enemies with Void energy then when they die it explodes spreading it to other people. So you could time stop multiple enemies in a chain reaction.

 

That's the Rift Torrent augment's effect on Rift Surge, it should still work on the changed Rift Surge. (unless the wiki's data is outdated, it's been a while since i last played Limbo and i currently don't have Wf on my Steam Library, so i can't check it now)

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