What is it with Aegis storm (Hildryn's 4th) that makes it such a scary ability?

[war_framer_2017]

(ranting)

First they make Hildryn, they give her an ultimate ability that is badass asf, but you can't use her strongest ability in flight mode. 

Oh by the way, you, the player, discovered the obvious synergy between Aegis storm and rebuild shields?? Well now you can't cast helminth abilities while in Aegis storm, we can't have that in here duh

I understand Hildryn would be a lot stronger if they remove her shackles but in a game where most frames are gods in their own style why do you hinder this warframe with awful restriction design

Why can't this niche frame just have some freedom? Why the restrictions?? 

[Tesseract7777]

I could get into all the core problems with the game that cause all of this, but to put it really simply, it is because they don't want you to stay in channeled abilities forever. 

Do people often manage to anyways because DE's energy economy is completely broken and overly generous to the player? Yup. 

Do they want you to? Nope. 

And yes I know Hildryn uses shields for energy, but it all taps into the same broken energy economy. 

 

 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

you can use operator, and vazarin dash during hildryn 4th. It use to be great back when magus lockdown dealt 60%HP puncture damage.
you can use the arcane that has chance to rebuild shields on hit.

they made the augment of her 1st that rebuild shield if you hit ennemies with charged attack, it works with her 4th, but it's meh.

[ZeroX4]

9 minutes ago, war_framer_2017 said:

(ranting)

First they make Hildryn, they give her an ultimate ability that is badass asf, but you can't use her strongest ability in flight mode. 

Oh by the way, you, the player, discovered the obvious synergy between Aegis storm and rebuild shields?? Well now you can't cast helminth abilities while in Aegis storm, we can't have that in here duh

I understand Hildryn would be a lot stronger if they remove her shackles but in a game where most frames are gods in their own style why do you hinder this warframe with awful restriction design

Why can't this niche frame just have some freedom? Why the restrictions?? 

Did you ever heard story of a mod Equilibrium?

[trst]

My best guess would be to keep her from just afk/macro defending objectives. Too long of a history of people trying to exploit things like this in the game.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Nothing. The ability is pretty bad in any content where Hildryn can actually die and otherwise it is a "because I can" ability and not really something you use because it has a purpose or use within her own kit or role. You can run that high duration and efficiency meme build where you stay in it permanently with Aviator, Aerodynamic, Adaptation, Aegis and Barrier. In which case you don't die but also move like a flying snail with the motorics of a slapstick movie actor and deal no mentionworthy damage because you are stuck to using her other bad ability Balefire Charger as main damage without stripping defenses. I bet Aegis Storm is by far her most replaced ability though since Balefire Charger at least lets you still use her two good abilities and has a niche use with the augment. Just scrap it DE. It only hinders her. Give me a Hildryn version of Elemental Ward instead so I can replace Balefire Charger with something better myself if I have to to actually have 4 abilities to use.

[war_framer_2017]

45 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I could get into all the core problems with the game that cause all of this, but to put it really simply, it is because they don't want you to stay in channeled abilities forever. 

Do people often manage to anyways because DE's energy economy is completely broken and overly generous to the player? Yup. 

Do they want you to? Nope. 

And yes I know Hildryn uses shields for energy, but it all taps into the same broken energy economy. 

 

 

I know the energy economy sucks but this is the first time someone tells me DE doesn't want ppl staying in channeled mode forever. I mean we have exalted weapons that can stay forever on such as baruuk & excalibur but okay DE??? (don't you dare touch my pixie D: ) 

[war_framer_2017]

27 minutes ago, trst said:

My best guess would be to keep her from just afk/macro defending objectives. Too long of a history of people trying to exploit things like this in the game.

We literally have a warframe that can block an infinite number of enemies and makes all allies inside his bubble radius invincible to everything inside and outside but i guess he's moderately popular.

I know I'm using whataboutism here but Hildryn deserves some love man :(

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 1 Minute schrieb war_framer_2017:

I know the energy economy sucks but this is the first time someone tells me DE doesn't want ppl staying in channeled mode forever. I mean we have exalted weapons that can stay forever on such as baruuk & excalibur but okay DE??? (don't you dare touch my pixie D: ) 

What they probably meant was channeled abilities that let you almost stand still while clearing level 40 enemies. Ember used to be like that and old Quake Banshee for example. In Hildryn's case you'd stay still in the air and spam Pillage resulting in the same but actually scaling better.

[war_framer_2017]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

What they probably meant was channeled abilities that let you almost stand still while clearing level 40 enemies. Ember used to be like that and old Quake Banshee for example. In Hildryn's case you'd stay still in the air and spam Pillage resulting in the same but actually scaling better.

ah, that makes more sense for DE's case but why go through the hassle to create such concept and release it live in game just to restrict it.

They could've made her lose shields faster when standing exactly in the same spot or build an overheating bar but nah, they gotta do it in such terrible fashion

[Tesseract7777]

14 minutes ago, war_framer_2017 said:

I know the energy economy sucks but this is the first time someone tells me DE doesn't want ppl staying in channeled mode forever. I mean we have exalted weapons that can stay forever on such as baruuk & excalibur but okay DE??? (don't you dare touch my pixie D: ) 

They don't want you to, but that doesn't mean they have any idea how to stop you entirely without starting a mini-riot; as the energy system is such a mess at this point with so many sources of quick and easy energy that lets you bypass any type of thinking in mission about whether you should use energy or not. 

DE has been fighting people on this ever since they messed with fleeting so that negative duration makes channeled abilities drain energy quicker, and disconnected most of the energy economy that could affect channeled abilities. I don't know how far you go back in WF's history, but these changes were made years ago, and DE gave their reasoning for it very, very clearly. 

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb war_framer_2017:

ah, that makes more sense for DE's case but why go through the hassle to create such concept and release it live in game just to restrict it.

They could've made her lose shields faster when standing exactly in the same spot or build an overheating bar but nah, they gotta do it in such terrible fashion

!Speculations!:

Because she came out when Anthem was not out but people were hyped about it so a frame needed to fly like they do in Anthem and they tagged it on hoping it would stick (either very early or late in her development). That's not sarcasm, sadly. I'm pretty sure that's at least part of the reason. As you identified correctly, the ability makes no sense on her. It's like early on (or very late) they were like "let's make her fly like they do in Anthem" then "Oh but also let's test shield gating on her and make shields as resource her gimmick". At some point too late they realized "oh S#&$ Pillage while in Aegis Storm is pretty good and what do we do now?" "Ah, just put some limitations on it and ship it. It'll be fine.".

That would explain why Balefire Charger has pretty much no status or crit chance because if there was a point during her development where she could use Pillage while in Aegis Storm, only being able to use Balefire Charger while in it, BC would be actually overall okay-ish since it works/synergizes okay with Pillage on ground. It simply has the usual exalted weapon problem which is getting outclassed by regular weapons. But because Pillage doesn't work in Aegis Storm Balefire becomes bad in the only situation you need it to be good - during Aegis Storm.

By the way, why doesn't it auto-activate when entering Aegis Storm anyways? 

That's the tale I made up inside my head using some indicators as to why I think Pillage was at intended to work in Aegis Storm at some point during Hildryn's development or respectively as to why Aegis Storm might have been bruteforced into her kit and why I think the limitations were put it in after the realization DE didn't like the result instead of replacing AS with a different ability instead. I repeat:

!Speculations! 

[cute_moth.npc]

4 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

They don't want you to, but that doesn't mean they have any idea how to stop you entirely without starting a mini-riot; as the energy system is such a mess at this point with so many sources of quick and easy energy that lets you bypass any type of thinking in mission about whether you should use energy or not. 

DE has been fighting people on this ever since they messed with fleeting so that negative duration makes channeled abilities drain energy quicker, and disconnected most of the energy economy that could affect channeled abilities. I don't know how far you go back in WF's history, but these changes were made years ago, and DE gave their reasoning for it very, very clearly. 

I sort of support trying to restrict ultimates and powerful abilities but the blanket application is painful. Examples are Oberon, where Renewal is decent but isn't really that amazing - Oberon is basically kicked in the teeth over using it, or Titania where Titania is basically at an actual functional power level and a decent Warframe while Razorwing is active, and possibly the worst Warframe in the game without it but she's also penalized with a poor energy economy in exchange for being functional.

The reasoning is really sound but the execution is flawed at the same time. I guess that's the entire energy system in a nutshell though ^^;

[ebrl]

If you think Aegis Storm is bad/worse than Balefire you should probably just sell your Hildryn for credits, never think about the frame again, and spare yourself from looking like an idiot in the forums. And no, the restrictions have nothing to do with killing level 40 enemies with zero effort, because Hildryn already does that with Haven.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Am 13.1.2021 um 04:33 schrieb ebrl:

If you think Aegis Storm is bad/worse than Balefire you should probably just sell your Hildryn for credits, never think about the frame again, and spare yourself from looking like an idiot in the forums. And no, the restrictions have nothing to do with killing level 40 enemies with zero effort, because Hildryn already does that with Haven.

Please illuminate me and go a little more into detail for I am a lowly peasent. Share your almighty Hildryn wisdom since you seem to be ahead in knowledge and superiority. I'd really like to be allowed to keep my Hildryns and am willing to learn the true power of Hildryn's Aegis Storm. Please, master.

Edit: Still waiting. The Hildryn master is probably just writing down a lot of applications and general good usages for Aegis Storm. I'll be patient. Hildryn master is so generous wanting to share all the wisdom.

Edit 2: Another day. Still waiting patiently to be shown the light.

[Butterfly85]

Blame afk people for not letting us have nice things, I guess.

I've not used helminth on Hildryn, I find all her skills useful. Balefire might not have much crit or status, but it still does a ton of damage and can knock back mobs or maintain air superiority by destroying drop ships if you're using  her 4 to lock an area down.

Her 2 and 3 need no explaining and only get better when playing high level stuff, especially if using blazing pillage.

As for her 4, best time I used it was the mobile defence option of assault in Steel Path. 70 Grineer coming in to wreck your butt? Nope, aegis holds them all in place and the two sheild arcanes are strong enough to replenish sheilds faster than you burn them, and will be always active because you're taking a silly amount of fire from mobs before they get in grab range.

All in all, depending on what I'm doing, I have 5 different set ups for her. A standard high power,  blazing pillage set up. A high efficiency long range set up, a tank set up where I have a ton of health and armor, a max power strength silly build and a hybrid of my range/health build.

The only thing I won't take her to is arbitration endurance when its infested. Sure blazing pillage means she can ruin infested but toxic ancients still ruin her pretty quick. 

[Tiltskillet]

11 hours ago, war_framer_2017 said:

Why can't this niche frame . . .

What's her niche?  Being pretty good at nearly everything? 😛

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Butterfly85:

Blame afk people for not letting us have nice things, I guess.

I've not used helminth on Hildryn, I find all her skills useful. Balefire might not have much crit or status, but it still does a ton of damage and can knock back mobs or maintain air superiority by destroying drop ships if you're using  her 4 to lock an area down.

Her 2 and 3 need no explaining and only get better when playing high level stuff, especially if using blazing pillage.

As for her 4, best time I used it was the mobile defence option of assault in Steel Path. 70 Grineer coming in to wreck your butt? Nope, aegis holds them all in place and the two sheild arcanes are strong enough to replenish sheilds faster than you burn them, and will be always active because you're taking a silly amount of fire from mobs before they get in grab range.

Hi,

I disagree but would like to know how you built her so I can quickly put it on and give it a round or two to better understand what your opinion is based on. I'd assume duration/eff/some range/rest strength and Aerodynamic and Aviator? Or something vastly different? Edit: if so, I just tried that on SP Mot and it performs worse than staying on the ground with a full power strength build.

The way I see it Balefire is outclassed by regular guns but at least it doesn't intefere with Pillage (granted I'll use it more to see how it goes with Primed Fulmination, once that's out for me) and Pillage/Haven plus Blazing Pillage ccs just as good as Aegis Storm, procs heat, let's you move properly, lets you strip defenses and kill enemies and lets you use whatever you replaced Aegis Storm with and lets you use good weapons that don't cost shields to fire. There is little benefit to be inside her 4, in my eyes anyways.

The thing is if you are not in Aegis Storm you are the one wrecking those 70 Grineer butts from your example and still defend the target as Hildryn instead of just floating around and taking damage to slowly pick off one Grineer after another.

[NinjaZeku]

12 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

Did you ever heard story of a mod Equilibrium?

Please expand on why you mentioned that Mod, I don't get the context / reason.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb NinjaZeku:

Please expand on why you mentioned that Mod, I don't get the context / reason.

Not the person you quoted but last time I tested it on Hildryn with Synth mods in the Simulacrum it did nothing since you have to collect specifically energy orbs to gain shields as far as I am aware. Gaining energy from other sources such as the health orbs converted into energy by Equilibrium or from something like Harrow's Thurible doesn't/shouldn't work. Although there has been a bug/feature for a while on console (no clue if that still works on PC) where Energy Siphon and Energizing Dash from Zenurik make you basically unkillable on Hildryn (few exceptions). If you are interested in trying to make shields via energy orbs work on her I'd give Gara's 3rd ability plus the augment via Helminth a look. I wasn't really convinced when I dabbled with it but I didn't invest too much time looking into it. It's interesting though.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Side note : hildryn 4th is the best way to get energy orbs for your necramech during the event. If nothing changes when necramechs are introduced in normal missions, arquebex / hildryn will be a thing

[ZeroX4]

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

Please expand on why you mentioned that Mod, I don't get the context / reason.

Players was always using this mod as example how de logic works in a nutshell
Make something cool and useful then nerf it so badly most of us wont even consider using it

When you read mod description on it you are like "omg thats my new right hand its literally like ammo mutation just for hp and energy"

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Equilibrium

It picks up health orbs and charges u with energy while also picking up energy orbs and recovering your health what a deal eh?
And moments later either you realize or read on wiki that it dont pick up health orbs when your health is full and energy orbs when your energy is full
So u can have zero energy but max HP and walking over health orb this mod will give you nothing

And it comes to your mind that for this mod capacity drain and how it works its worth of a mod slot only on warframe which would constantly lose health while constantly being in need of energy like nekros in conjunction with despoil mod

And that is pretty much same story here
We get something that is good but at closer look its very restricted
 

[Butterfly85]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

Hi,

I disagree but would like to know how you built her so I can quickly put it on and give it a round or two to better understand what your opinion is based on. I'd assume duration/eff/some range/rest strength and Aerodynamic and Aviator? Or something vastly different? Edit: if so, I just tried that on SP Mot and it performs worse than staying on the ground with a full power strength build.

The way I see it Balefire is outclassed by regular guns but at least it doesn't intefere with Pillage (granted I'll use it more to see how it goes with Primed Fulmination, once that's out for me) and Pillage/Haven plus Blazing Pillage ccs just as good as Aegis Storm, procs heat, let's you move properly, lets you strip defenses and kill enemies and lets you use whatever you replaced Aegis Storm with and lets you use good weapons that don't cost shields to fire. There is little benefit to be inside her 4, in my eyes anyways.

The thing is if you are not in Aegis Storm you are the one wrecking those 70 Grineer butts from your example and still defend the target as Hildryn instead of just floating around and taking damage to slowly pick off one Grineer after another.

Sure. My usual build for Hildryn is Steel Charge (extra capacity), Redirection, Primed Vigor, Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude, Umbral Intensify, Stretch, Adaptation (rank 8) and Stretch. Leaves me 4 capacity to put into my exilus. 

Polarities are 3 Vazarin, 1 Madurai and 2 Naramon, one of which is in my Exilus slot. Also used an aura forma. One day I'll give her an umbral slot now they're more readily available. Arcane Barrier and Aegis because they're made for her really. That should give you 73% duration, 45% efficiency, 145% range and 298% power.

As for Balefire, I have Hornet Strike, Magnum Force, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent and Augur Pact, Leaves me with 3 slots for elements or utility. At the moment I have Jolt, Convulsion and Primed Heated Charge equipped. leaves me just shy of 100k for quick shot damage and 200k for a charged shot.

I don't use Aegis storm that much, usually when I'm being lazy, playing support by buffing other players with shields and energy, or just want to completely stop a room (like Steel Path assault because no matter how fact I could move and melee stuff to death I know there will be a heavy gunner or bomber somewhere who will be out of range and nuking the console.)

There's probably better builds for Hildryn out there, but this has always done the job for me and she's one of my comfort picks anyway :)

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Because some people on the design team just want us to suffer.

[Reitrix]

1 hour ago, ZeroX4 said:

Players was always using this mod as example how de logic works in a nutshell
Make something cool and useful then nerf it so badly most of us wont even consider using it

When you read mod description on it you are like "omg thats my new right hand its literally like ammo mutation just for hp and energy"

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Equilibrium

It picks up health orbs and charges u with energy while also picking up energy orbs and recovering your health what a deal eh?
And moments later either you realize or read on wiki that it dont pick up health orbs when your health is full and energy orbs when your energy is full
So u can have zero energy but max HP and walking over health orb this mod will give you nothing

And it comes to your mind that for this mod capacity drain and how it works its worth of a mod slot only on warframe which would constantly lose health while constantly being in need of energy like nekros in conjunction with despoil mod

And that is pretty much same story here
We get something that is good but at closer look its very restricted
 

Synth Fiber on companion.

You will eat Health Orbs even at full HP to fuel to the armor bonus. 

Eating the orb gives you Energy. I used this setup on my Dispenser Trinity from when Blessing could give a small regen to Necramechs. Now we have Rage and Meathook healing, so that Trinity is a waste of resources now I guess lol. 

It'll even work on the Empowered Orbs the Dispensary drops.