Is Nyx really that bad or am I missing something?

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

One of the benefits to Nyx is that she needs very little in the way of modding for her abilities.  You can very easily make use of her abilities while modding mostly defensively which is very nice for harder missions. 

Her 1 is okayish at being a meat shield/secondary target, and if you build for it can do decent damage, but this is the ability I usually remove with Helminth.  Enemy AI is awful and building for this ability to do good damage reliably takes too many mod slots imo.

Her 2 is not just an armor strip, it's a full on defense strip (so it's shields and armor) that hits 100% very quickly with low power strength.  It's point and click defense removal on any hard target.  

Her 3 is just to keep the heat off of you.  The reason she's good in SP is because she essentially removes the things that make SP hard (the ridiculous shields and armor they added in.) while making those same targets unlikely to be targeting you.  Not getting shot is a great first line of defense lol

Her 4 is situational, but being able to defend a stationary target while your team mops up is fantastic for all those paper thin defense targets in SP.  In the game as it is currently, her 4 is honestly kind of pointless in non-SP missions except maybe the higher level Void Mobile Defense, where they can kill the console surprisingly fast if you're not nuking.  It still has uses though.

I think the main perception that she's bad stems from the fact that she's not a nuke frame and her CC is soft CC instead of hard CC like Vauban.  She still works well if you play to her strengths.  I wouldn't put her at the top of the tier list, but I certainly wouldn't call her bad.  Just a little weapon dependent.

[Syndrella]

Nyx is not that bad and she can survive in long runs if she can spam chaos and use mind control. The mind control ability is not that bad, because she can capture with it almost any unit and make it invicible for the duration. Chaos is a panic option but useful in large groups when you need to opt out from the battlefield. Could be better if the enemies not able to shot you or you gain immunity from the enemies whom controlled by your chaos. 

The bolts could deal some damage like back in day but the armor removing part is nice maybe the energy needs is a bit much for what it does. Her ultimate is also a panic button and with an augment only can be mobile. She is useful but out dated also in the era where the damage and kills matter she became obsolete. She slows down the action in certain missions but in endurance runs with a coordinated team she is life saver. 

She needs tweaks on her abilities and maybe fuse chaos with mind control like press once for mind control using 1/3 of energy or press hard and use chaos. She could get a telekinetic ability with environment control or mind blast which basically blows up enemies head in range. Also she could get some better passive in long term of usability.

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Since when has any game just deleted entire swaths of weapons and characters/classes because

When they literally do the same thing but better, on top of doing even more. Plenty of roles have good side grades to each other, and none are 100% outclassed in any given role like Nyx is. She is the only frame I bring this up with.

You can play any frame you want. And you can play any frame in endurance, because an Excal with only a decaying dragon key, Brief Respite, and some weapons can do endurance. But Nyx is objectively the worst frame because another frame does basically her whole kit better with 1 and half abilities. You can use her... there's no reason to use her.

[Orokin]

Nyx is mostly a vehicle for weapon play... (other than 4 nuke). Go into solo steel path and you will see how good her 3 is. I say solo because in groups AI targeting becomes a joke because of Host Client connection.

 

She has an active playstyle, she is only bad if you want braindead gameplay.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

When they literally do the same thing but better, on top of doing even more. Plenty of roles have good side grades to each other, and none are 100% outclassed in any given role like Nyx is. She is the only frame I bring this up with.

You can play any frame you want. And you can play any frame in endurance, because an Excal with only a decaying dragon key, Brief Respite, and a some weapons can do endurance. But Nyx is objectively the worst frame because another frame does basically her whole kit better with 1 and half abilities. You can use her... there's no reason to use her.

Out of 45 frames....only Nyx is "100% outclassed"?

Is that based on any sort of empirical data, or reality? Or is it just your subjective and flawed opinion?

[KitMeHarder]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Is that based on any sort of empirical data, or reality?

Your first response quoted the reality I laid out. Feel free to counter with where Xaku doesn't 100% invalidate Nyx in any significant way.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

10 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Your first response quoted the reality I laid out. Feel free to counter with where Xaku doesn't 100% invalidate Nyx in any significant way.

Are there videos or claims of people failing missions left and right with Nyx, claiming the failure never would have happened if they had Xaku? 

Are you under the impression the game poses some sort of challenge that can't be overcome unless Xaku is used?

Are people not taking Nyx into endurance runs? Oh wait, that video proof was already provided, darn. I still haven't seen an endurance run with Xaku against level 9k enemies, though. 

I'm also not the one that made the claim. If I try to claim that the earth is flat, it's my responsibility to back that up.

[KitMeHarder]

36 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

it's my responsibility to back that up.

I have already backed it up (and if you can't surmise what I mean, then I have attached Xaku's wiki cause I'm not copy+pasting it if you won't even bring up where you think I'm objectively wrong), and I have already provided counters to the things you just brought up. Just cause you can use something, doesn't mean it's worth using. There are videos of people killing stuff with the Plasma Sword that the Plasma Sword should never be brought to kill.

Nor is this a case of "CC frames bad". I think Molecular Prime, Vortex, Shooting Gallery, Resonator, Stasis, etc... are all great.

So instead of admitting that she is objectively without use (different from unusable), and getting DE's attention to give her a good rework like Wukong, you'd rather toil around with a frame that wholly consist of a worse version of less than half of another frame's kit.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Xaku/Abilities

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

18 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I have already backed it up (and if you can't surmise what I mean, then I have attached Xaku's wiki cause I'm not copy+pasting it if you won't even bring up where you think I'm objectively wrong), and I have already provided counters to the things you just brought up. Just cause you can use something, doesn't mean it's worth using. There are videos of people killing stuff with the Plasma Sword that the Plasma Sword should never be brought to kill.

Nor is this a case of "CC frames bad". I think Molecular Prime, Vortex, Shooting Gallery, Resonator, Stasis, etc... are all great.

So instead of admitting that she is objectively without use (different from unusable), and getting DE's attention to give her a good rework like Wukong, you'd rather toil around with a frame that wholly consist of a worse version of less than half of another frame's kit.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Xaku/Abilities

You backed it up...by simply repeating yourself and saying "Xakus 3 is better" as if that actually means anything...so I guess I can simply say "x is better, because I said so" and that's a fully thought out, cogent argument to you?

Are you even aware that you need 200% strength to fully strip armor with Xaku....with that being slightly less than 200 if you want to take advantage of 99% armor reduction for a corrosive or radiation bonus etc.

Maybe I missed something....why would I want to add more strength mods in my frame to strip armor when I literally only need 1 strength mod with Nyx? 

Are you also aware that some people don't really like the flow of cycled abilities? 

Wow, it's almost like frame choice actually is subjective and the game is so easy there's actually not any scenario where you'd need Xaku over nyx over one another.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

What are you even talking about?

If you don't know then perhaps your knowledge of nyx isn't as good as you thought. I also wasn't aware that Xaku's 3rd ability removes all auras, ancient healer/disruptor effects etc? Oh wait it doesn't I was thinking of Nyx... and you need 200% pwr str for Xaku thus nerfing your range possibility compared to a flat 60m range on nyx and 125% pwr str. One of the great things about Nyx is you don't need pwr str allowing for great duration on her abilities and a very good all rounder build plus again, having one of the most effective nukes in the game for Defense missions.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

Ah, okay. Yeah, I just mildly remember testing it once. How do you charge her 4 solo? Specters or just the enemy damage itself or differently?

Correct, spectres.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Nyx is good, but most people don't use her due to a bad rep and her being an older frame, therefore one forgotten in favor of newer ones. she's more in need of an update to her kit, rather than a total rework. 

[Lakais]

The main problem with Nyx, in my opinion, is that her kit is not only outdated but also not well defined. What I mean by that is that her kit is a meh combination of two mental power archetypes that I type as "psycher" and "overlord". So it's more of an inconsistent theme issue.

Overlord is your mind-control kit. In my mind's eye, Nyx with this setup would forgo things like her bolts and absorb. In this, her entire kit is around amassing an army of suicidally loyal minions. At the core of her abilities would be Chaos or some variation of it. With Mind Control creating a sort of champion enemy that converts enemies affected by Chaos under it's command and thus under Nyx's command. The cap to controlled enemies should be FAR higher then on Revenant. After that she could order the enemies in her thrall to circle her as meat shields (acting as a kind of absorb through aggro) or even just kamikaze at hostiles with a grenade. This is an overly simple and basic explanation of this archetype that Nyx can be moved towards. Basically someone who's shtick is getting other people to fight and die for her. 

Psycher is, I guess best exemplified as a sort of telekinetic warrior. Her ability energy is her shield and she can do many things with it. Sending parts of it off as bolts to harm and debuff targeted enemies, expand it out at the cost of mobility as a more damage oriented absorb. Use her powers to grab and hold enemy units (and exploding barrels) as shields and projectiles. With possibly a passive to her Parazon attacks in that they regenerate her energy, as a sort of "absorb your mind" kind of attack. Honestly, when I think about her in this key, I am always brought back to the two enemies in Astartes part 4 or a Vanguard character from the Mass Effect games. 

[JimmuTanno88]

Nyx's gameplay style just isn't for everyone. I personally find her very enjoyable to play (especially with a spam build: max range & efficiency with min duration, good in team missions where a full-duration chaos would be wasted since teammates are bound to kill the enemies before the duration). The epic fashion and pre-warframe history certainly helps too. There aren't really bad frames overall, since all have their uses, niche or otherwise.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb TARINunit9:

I'm not going to say Inaros is top tier or that his 3 is actually good (it's physically painful to the player to use), but I have never been in any content where Inaros ever needed shield gating. He tanks for days without it

I think you do not play the same content as I do. And you said it yourself: "I have never been in any content where Inaros ever needed shield gating". You are just not playing high level content then.

[TastyTaro]

13 часов назад, houselyrander сказал:

I'm still not seeing it.

Nyx is one of the best frames in the game but only under certain conditions.

tl;dr she is unkillable.

You need very good weapons, you need to use operator in order to provide mobility. She can remove armor as well, and she can do that very well. And you can now switch her 1 for something better.

If Mag would not exists i would probably main Nyx... or Banshee.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

I think you do not play the same content as I do. And you said it yourself: "I have never been in any content where Inaros ever needed shield gating". You are just not playing high level content then.

Sorry, the implicit addition was "and I have done all the content in the game." I can't even die on purpose as Inaros, in any content below something ridiculous like level 400

[-CdG-Zilchy]

17 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Sorry, the implicit addition was "and I have done all the content in the game." I can't even die on purpose as Inaros, in any content below something ridiculous like level 400

His interpretation of ridiculous is likely a bit different. For example my idea of high enemy level is 3000 and up. That's when they start to really hurt. At least for me that is, different strokes for different folks, otherwise the world wouldn't be interesting.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

16 hours ago, houselyrander said:

She really doesn't seem to offer anything that other frames can't do better. Her CC feels weak and limited (her 1's AI seeming to focus on floors may be a factor), her armor strip feels too finicky to bother with, and her survivability tools are crippling to use. I've heard that she's good for Steel Path but I've been clearing planets in Steel Path on and off for a while now and I'm still not seeing it. Is there some crucial factor I'm missing here or is Nyx really just the "at least she's not Oldkong" I think she is?

You need that assimilate augment so you can walk around while its on. In warframe, the oldest rule is "you can't deal damage if you're a corpse." Warframes that don't have scaling survivability tools against enemies in SP aren't as good as warframes that do. Nyx is one of the frames that has scaling survivablity. Take Inaros for example. Most people think he's the tankiest thing out there until he's used in SP and gets one shot with full health because he has no shield gating. Dumb stuff like that people over look  because when they test stuff in simulacrum with level 170+ enemies, they have invincibility on.

[KitMeHarder]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

"Xakus 3 is better" as if that actually means anything

Because it is almost objectively better. I'm not going to hold your hand and explain publically available information. If you think there is somewhere his 3 isn't better, then I can start from there.

5 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Are you even aware that you need 200% strength to fully strip armor with Xaku

Yep. I don't see how stating that makes it a downside? Frames tend to use mods. And I have 250% range with complete armor/shield strip if that's what you're eluding to.

5 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Maybe I missed something....why would I want to add more strength mods in my frame to strip armor when I literally only need 1 strength mod with Nyx? 

So you can do it in a 30m AoE, with no enemy cap, and near unlimited duration? But no, you stick with your 6 enemies per cast.

5 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Wow, it's almost like frame choice actually is subjective

Doesn't mean you should condemn her to her shabby state.

[(PSN)thegarada]

She is not terrible. She is my go to interception frame. She has invulnerability and armor strip. Though, there are better frames. She surely needs some fixes.

[KitMeHarder]

5 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

If you don't know then perhaps your knowledge of nyx isn't as good as you thought.

I am fine with being proven wrong. But in my 3 years here I have never seen anyone use or claim her 4 to be "DPS". Do you mind providing a video? And then it will still have to measure up to Grasp of Lohk in terms of my claim of "Xaku does it better".

5 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I also wasn't aware that Xaku's 3rd ability removes all auras, ancient healer/disruptor effects etc?

Right, instead of turning them off he coverts them to allies, where he can benefit from the 90% DR, status immunity, etc... 

5 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

and you need 200% pwr str for Xaku thus nerfing your range possibility compared to a flat 60m range on nyx and 125% pwr str.

I have 200%+ strength and 250% range, idk how that is a downside? And you need strength for Accuse anyway.

The reason Accuse is better than Chaos is because they're allies, not just confused. With my build I think that's 17-18 enemies that buff you, aggro draw, and never damage you. Compared Chaos where you get slightly too close to a Bombard and there's either a rocket coming, or a knockdown.

5 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

One of the great things about Nyx is you don't need pwr str allowing for great duration on her abilities

Xaku's near unlimited duration not good by comparison?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

48 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I am fine with being proven wrong. But in my 3 years here I have never seen anyone use or claim her 4 to be "DPS". Do you mind providing a video?

I'll try get a video done for you but essentially it's the old Arbitration strat if you ever used that? It's more effective in a group and it's for Defense missions, the gist of it is, that spectres have a strange reaction with Nyx's absorb, you position a spectre equipped with exergis so that they're firing at the enemies through the bubble. This gets absorbed straight into the bubble's dmg, it pops and basically wipes the entire wave with massive range. We used to do 150 waves of arbitration in around 70 minutes with this strat. It's not as good solo of course cos you're lacking buffs from other frames but it will still completely nuke everything to pretty decent levels. It's main downside is it's only viable in defense due to the stationary necessity of it.

Also I never disagreed about Accuse being better than Chaos, my main gripe that stops Chaos being great is that it's somewhat unreliable sometimes for reasons I can't really fathom other than bad coding. Mainly just the DPS of Nyx and psychic bolts being really bloody good is what I'm saying.

Edit: Found a video for you, it was kinda secretive when it was first found so hard to find examples. Note that they're on wave 199, I linked it to the correct time in the video.

 

[Aldain]

4 hours ago, Kel_Silonius said:

Nyx is one of the best frames in the game but only under certain conditions.

Honestly that can just as easily be interpreted as "Nyx is one of the worst frames in the game except under certain conditions".

I don't have a horse in the Nyx race myself, but I can't in good faith say she's the best at anything except in that niche of "Level 3000+ enemies" and Interception.

Then again I also have no faith that if her Assimilate Augment didn't exist she would be nowhere near as good as people perceive her, so take my stance with a grain of salt.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

12 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Honestly that can just as easily be interpreted as "Nyx is one of the worst frames in the game except under certain conditions".

I don't have a horse in the Nyx race myself, but I can't in good faith say she's the best at anything except in that niche of "Level 3000+ enemies" and Interception.

Then again I also have no faith that if her Assimilate Augment didn't exist she would be nowhere near as good as people perceive her, so take my stance with a grain of salt.

Watch the video I just posted above and realise she has one of the highest DPS in late game.