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Is Nyx really that bad or am I missing something?


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22 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I also think that all these comments, most of them "quite informed", highlights Nyx's character. She is not for everyone, she can be totally awesome, she is challenging (takes some knowledge to build and to play effectively), she has a lot of possibilities (which also translates into "no clear predefined role" from another viewpoint) and she is definitely not a "press this button"-warframe. A lot of the rest is down to opinions, do you like this type of warframe or not.

The more you play, the more some (like me) will prefer both using more warframes and those warframes that are flexible enough to change and to push in different directions (even totally "non-meta" ones). Since we are not only doing hours of endurance runs, playing around with different builds makes the game more interesting. And Nyx is one of those interesting warframe that you can play around with (a lot). 

I feel you summed it up really well with these 2 paragraphs.

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20 hours ago, (XBOX)Hyperion Rexx said:

What got me in the end on both occasions was an energy leech eximus.  No warning, no visual cue, just pooft, energy gone which means insta death when your bubble disappears.   They can but a bright aura around a blooming prosecutor which basically tickles you, why can't they do the same for leeches?  I had literally no idea there was one around until I was dead.

Just a quick tip for you if you do another run anytime, using Nyx's 2nd ability removes leech eximus auras and any other auras like healers, disruptors etc. Be warned however that it has a LoS but it's janky in a good way. What I mean by that is that while anything in your LoS within the range of 60m will be affected, also any enemy that is AWARE of you(filled red triangle on minimap) within that 60m will also be affected, making it a pretty good safety precaution to cast it when enemies close in a bit.  

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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Have to admit there is one thing that bugs me with Nyx, and that is the "total lockdown" you have to enter with her unaugmented 4 (Absorb). And yes, I do understand the idea that Nyx is becoming a sort of damage-collecting, meditating "Mag ball", and can then explode doing a sh*tload of damage. There are even builds/ways to use this (somewhat effectively too). But it really is a really bad ultimate ability, the only thing in her kit that feels like it belongs in an "older" Warframe, because it is so utterly and totally "passive", and situational at that.

However, put in the Assimilate-augment and everything changes. It's not only that you now "can move", you can suddenly also shoot, melee, use your other abilities and even use your operator. All these are hardlocked when using her unaugmented 4. This makes no (logical-functional) sense.

The only drawbacks from using the augment is that your bubble size is smaller and that you move slowly, but all other core things from Absorb are still functional. Again, this makes NO logical sense whatsoever, since if you "translate" this backwards it means that (by removing the augment) you lose the ability to move, to shoot (and melee), all your other abilities and even the ability to go into operator-mode, and you lose ALL this to... gain a double-size sphere (and explosion radius). What!? But... well, yes...

Once again, this makes no sense (simply having full operator use with the augment but no operator at all without it is, well, totally illogical, you need to keep the operator "inside the warframe" to get a double-size sphere....????). It also makes the use of an augment almost mandatory, which takes one mod slot away from Nyx (compared to almost all other warframes).

The only thing I would change in Nyx's current kit is her ult, due to the totally passive total lockdown. Because it currently is boring, extremely situational and not that effective unless you explicitly build for it (which goes against a "multi-use Nyx"), and it is "unfair" to Nyx (by making an augment a "must have"):

  • If kept in the current "meditation => nuke"-format, Nyx herself should also continuously ramp up the amount of the nuke-damage (simply by "meditating" = not be totally dependent on incoming enemy fire). The nuke-explosion should also get a basic range about double the current 10 meters (which is completely meh in Warframe 2021). The explosion could get the same damage drop-off function as explosive weapons did, to stop it from being a "map-nuke". Not only would this make her unaugmented 4 more useful, it would make "sitting there and doing nothing" more meaningful, as you can watch the damage-numbers ramp up (even when enemies aren't shooting at you) with a finger on the "blow up"-trigger. When using Assimilate (= "not meditating") damage ramp-up would be totally dependent on incoming enemy fire, as before.
  • An easier change would be to break the "complete lockdown" by allowing Nyx to continue using her abilities and even her currently selected primary/secondary while in Absorb-mode (even if this breaks the "sitting in Lotus-position and meditating"-setup). This would break the enforced total passivity, while keeping the small-nuke function intact.
Edited by Graavarg
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Nyx offers a very flexible package which you can take in a lot of directions and which is not as dependent on modding extreme stats as many other frames. She also doesn't lean too hard on her abilities to define her, though especially her 2 brings something unique and best-in-class to the table. Her 3 is potent enough, as is her 4.  @Graavarg explained it best what makes Nyx attractive to a certain type of player. 

And well, she has glorious skins. Tastes differ and all that, but at least imho Nyx is one of the best looking frames in the game!

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I mean...how is her 1 bad? I think its the best first ability i ever saw. Good points:

-For the next 4 seconds after activation, Nyx herself can empower the controlled target by attacking it; any damage dealt by Nyx onto the controlled target during this period is absorbed and converted into a percentage damage bonus for the target, lasting for the ability's remaining duration. 

-Security Cameras will ignore everything and never go into the alerted state

-Shield Ospreys will project shields on allies and defense objectives

-Brood Mothers, Drahk Masters, Hyekka Masters, Fusion MOAs, Seekers, Sniper Crewmen and Techs will spawn units that fight for the Tenno's side until the ability ends.

-Mind-controlled Ancients will grant their Auras

-Eximus enemies under Mind Control will focus their attacks on enemies instead. They will still project their damaging special auras (such as a large fire wave) but these will not damage allies over the ability's duration. In particular useful terms, Arctic Eximus will slightly slow down all other enemies in range while also providing protection for itself with its snow-globe-like shield.

 

Compare all that with rhino 1. Or volt. But of course if you use it on simple crewmen, its going to suck. Even then, it can be useful as distraction to defend an objective.

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A simple thing to do for her in order to bring her up to speed with the game is.

Absorb gets the augment infused into the skill as baseline in addition to having movement restrictions completely removed, it would turn it into a Valkitty defense skill. Secondly, old absorb is still there since the skill could have one tap and one hold function. The unrestricted new move around absorb would have no bubble around it, it would just be a shell covering Nyx's body. The new static absorb would be given a far larger detonation area, better damage scaling and so on to make it worthwhile sitting down. The current augment of the skill could be turned into a damage boost which works differently if you are static or moving.

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5 hours ago, Angwah said:

 

And well, she has glorious skins. Tastes differ and all that, but at least imho Nyx is one of the best looking frames in the game!

Nyx was notoriously hard to color well. Large swaths of her were fixed and difficult to work around. Her Immortal skin could help quite a bit with this back in the day. Now, of course, you have many other options. 

Nyx Prime, however, is still one of the best looking prime warframes and very easy to tune to whatever your eye deems attractive. 

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On 2021-01-16 at 1:43 PM, SneakyErvin said:

The problem is too much standing still as Nyx to warrant the 400% damage and low duration that absorb brings. Even with the terminator augment she is too static for the game in general. Nyx has just aged badly and needs to get tuned up for the game as it is now. No reason to have her absorb skill left in the bronze age when frames like Revenant show it is OK to have very strong defensive skills that does pretty much the same without any restrictions towards the fast parkour gameplay of WF.

Well that's pretty fair to say honestly, it's still my major complaint for a similar Warframe, Hydroid. An ability just isn't that good in general if it locks you in place or severely hinders your movement without massively buffing the hell out of you (which is why Mesa is an exception, and why Banshee is not).

I'm just not sure how'd you change it when DE clearly sees moving in Absorb as an Augment-worthy affair. You'd have to remove the invulnerability, or severely reduce it, while moving at normal speed as well as the damage absorption to make it anywhere near fair (I really wouldn't recommend increasing the Energy drain). Otherwise you'd just be giving her supposed Ultimate a free Augment, and I really don't see DE going with that.

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I needed to know exactly what we are talking about here, since I did not have the biggest experience with Nyx:

So I formaed her 2 times and brought her against Steel Path and Sortie.

Here is my review:

Ability 1: Way better than people here claim it to be. You can get shields, health and other interesting things from your victims. You can take guards in rescue missions out of game. Actually this is a great ability and it is fun to find uses for it. Way better than a dmg ability. Of course I was not able to figure out the true value in 2 days, but I had fun and if worst comes to worst, I can use Helminth

Ability 2: Absolutely amazing, for a mere 130 strength I can not only strip armor to 0, no, I can also strip shields from corpus and auras from infested.

Ability 3: With a bit of range, you rarely get attacked any more, making it possible to go up to the highest levels with Nyx. The 3 and 2 make her a powerhouse, the higher the level.

Ability 4: Admittedly does not work in 1000-2000+ environments, the shield it provides gets oneshot, but up to that level, it is one of the strongest panic buttons that you can press and when you calm down and release it, you nuke your environment with nuclear blast.

So no, I absolutely do not understand that some people think Nyx is trash. It is a well rounded, fun to play frame with huge CC/survivability and a defense strip which is simply amazing. Due to the fact that you can spam her abilities and you will in normal gameplay, shield gating is crazily effective on her, adding to her huge lategame value. Nyx can definitely do stuff that other warframes cannot do.

Thanks for this thread though, I will play her more often now.

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Sorry for ignoring my own thread for so long (been sick) but I think Graavarg summed things up nicely. And upon review of this thread I think I understand why people defend her a bit more, but I'll probably stick to my mainstays of Oberon and Vauban for the same reasons I meantioned at the top. I still feel that her CC isn't hard enough for a CC frame, that her strip is too finicky, and that Assimilate slows me too much, but if those really aren't deal breakers for you then have fun with her. Personally though, I'm still hoping she'll see a rework to make her more in line with modern frames like what Vauban got.

Thanks to everyone who commented WITHOUT feeling the need to be toxic

Edited by houselyrander
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Nyx has quickly become one of my most used frames. I even put a aura forma on her and a umbra forma. 

 

Her bolts not only strip armor but defenses entirely.  this means it removes shields, removes armor, turns off auras from eximus and ancients And works on bosses.  it is also a x6 heat seeker you'll never need to aim. 

Her 3 turns AI off which can be useful in a pinch and in several situations where you have to stall like deimos vaults and interception. I like the idea of forcing enemies to strike each other too.  a bit of mental warfare.  

Her 4 is complete invincibility and if you use the augment, use a melee with very long movements in swings like Machetes or scythes to become a unstoppable bulldozer.  I use her 4 to stall mobile defense too and make them invincible.  this means less limbos being used and that is a good thing. 

None of her skills consume very much energy so it is incredibly easy to keep all of your abilities active.  I replaced her 1 with nezha fire Walker since her 1 is terrible. 

 

Best of all, unlike a lot of other frames, you can build for all 3 abilities in a single build without cripplng any of her other skills. 

Also her deluxe is one of the best looking designs for anything in warframe.  

 

All in all I think she is both useful and fun. 

You can throw Vauban vortex all day but I find nyx to be a lot more engaging and fun.  

It all comes down to fun. 

Edited by wizardeiges
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16 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Well that's pretty fair to say honestly, it's still my major complaint for a similar Warframe, Hydroid. An ability just isn't that good in general if it locks you in place or severely hinders your movement without massively buffing the hell out of you (which is why Mesa is an exception, and why Banshee is not).

I'm just not sure how'd you change it when DE clearly sees moving in Absorb as an Augment-worthy affair. You'd have to remove the invulnerability, or severely reduce it, while moving at normal speed as well as the damage absorption to make it anywhere near fair (I really wouldn't recommend increasing the Energy drain). Otherwise you'd just be giving her supposed Ultimate a free Augment, and I really don't see DE going with that.

Yep Hydroid is another example of a very outdated kit. Same reason why I dont touch him anymore, he's a frame that relies too much on static gameplay and CC.

Movement restrictions can be completely removed from absorb without reducing the skill much since she wouldnt be the first frame to be completely immune or close to it while moving unhindered. The sphere can be removed when she moves but the discharge of the stacking damage can stay as an AoE option. It is already a weak skill with a weak augment in a weak kit as it is now. Giving the augment to the skill as baseline while also buffing it would just bring her closer to being good and fit in better with the speed of the game. Ontop of that they can just change the actual augment into something worthwhile. It is already silly that the augment isnt even an exilus while Mesa can roll around all day long with hers.

I mean, they allow for skills like Mesmer Skin and Hysteria already, along with a multitude of different 90-99% damage reduction skills aswell as frames that have up to 10k health or several thousands of shield health that is all easily maintained. Why do they restrict Absorb which isnt really that good to begin with? I'd be ok with it even if it was the augment that removed the movement restriction on absorb while also removing all other effects except the invulnerability.

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On 2021-01-17 at 7:44 PM, Graavarg said:

Have to admit there is one thing that bugs me with Nyx, and that is the "total lockdown" you have to enter with her unaugmented 4 (Absorb). And yes, I do understand the idea that Nyx is becoming a sort of damage-collecting, meditating "Mag ball", and can then explode doing a sh*tload of damage. There are even builds/ways to use this (somewhat effectively too). But it really is a really bad ultimate ability, the only thing in her kit that feels like it belongs in an "older" Warframe, because it is so utterly and totally "passive", and situational at that.

Someone already mentioned it but you can subsume Reave as Nyx's 1st ability and have mobility in Absorb. 

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vor 23 Stunden schrieb wizardeiges:

Her 4 is complete invincibility and if you use the augment, use a melee with very long movements in swings like Machetes or scythes to become a unstoppable bulldozer.  I use her 4 to stall mobile defense too and make them invincible.  this means less limbos being used and that is a good thing. 

 

I agree with most of your posting, but Nyx 4 is not complete invincibility. If you ever go against higher enemies, the ability is gone in a second or less and is no longer useful at all.

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11 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Someone already mentioned it but you can subsume Reave as Nyx's 1st ability and have mobility in Absorb. 

Yep, I saw this, thanks (didn't know).

However, I think such a Helminth/Reave-mechanic sort of further underlines the "illogically big" difference between using Nyx's 4 with or without an augment (Assimilate). 

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31 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Yep, I saw this, thanks (didn't know).

However, I think such a Helminth/Reave-mechanic sort of further underlines the "illogically big" difference between using Nyx's 4 with or without an augment (Assimilate). 

Fair point. Still fun :)

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On 2021-01-18 at 6:23 AM, Travis05 said:

I mean...how is her 1 bad? I think its the best first ability i ever saw. Good points:

-For the next 4 seconds after activation, Nyx herself can empower the controlled target by attacking it; any damage dealt by Nyx onto the controlled target during this period is absorbed and converted into a percentage damage bonus for the target, lasting for the ability's remaining duration. 

-Security Cameras will ignore everything and never go into the alerted state

-Shield Ospreys will project shields on allies and defense objectives

-Brood Mothers, Drahk Masters, Hyekka Masters, Fusion MOAs, Seekers, Sniper Crewmen and Techs will spawn units that fight for the Tenno's side until the ability ends.

-Mind-controlled Ancients will grant their Auras

-Eximus enemies under Mind Control will focus their attacks on enemies instead. They will still project their damaging special auras (such as a large fire wave) but these will not damage allies over the ability's duration. In particular useful terms, Arctic Eximus will slightly slow down all other enemies in range while also providing protection for itself with its snow-globe-like shield.

 

Compare all that with rhino 1. Or volt. But of course if you use it on simple crewmen, its going to suck. Even then, it can be useful as distraction to defend an objective.

A bit late on this, but in my experience, her 1 simply does not function as intended. I don't know if it's a long standing bug, bad luck, or what, but every time I mind control something it just stops doing anything useful. Techs stop summoning, Shield Ospreys close up and fall to the ground, anything with a gun shoots the floor, anything without a gun just sits there, etc. Giving a minion the ability to deal millions of points of damage doesn't matter if they don't attack. They don't seem to generate much Threat either so they're not a good distraction. As for cameras, that strikes me as a waste of energy since those can be permanently destroyed with a single shot from an unmodded Lato. This leaves Eximus and Ancient auras, which makes her 1 really niche at best. I'd personally rather have Wukong's 1, which seems to actually have functioning AI and who I can equip however I please. Heck, I'd rather have Volt's 1 for the cheap CC when I'm reloading. If you can get her 1 to actually function as intended then enjoy it, but just be aware that for myself and a lot of other players it seems to be bugged.

Edited by houselyrander
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Make her 1 override the normal enemy AI and give it the same AI that Wukong's clone uses. Make it aggressive. It's straight up depressing to have a power build, use mind freak, stack up a huge damage bonus, and then watch the enemy slow walk and shoot maybe twice over the entire ability's duration. 

Make her 1 permanent duration instead of temporary. Remove the enemy from the spawns needed to complete a wave (I think it already does this?)

And now the big one: make it so holding down the ability with an active Mind Control makes Nyx 'jump' into their head. The player takes manual control of the enemy, with all the damage boosts she build up before the possession. Leaving might kill the possessed unit.

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The thing about Nyx, is she really shines in high level play, but what makes her good there makes her not as good in average levels of game play.

Her 1 is, Mind Control, as told by everyone here, her weakest ability by far, but when the enemies are powerful enough it can actually do something to bring a heavy unit to your side, if only so you don't have to try to kill them and distract enemies. It's not great even in high level play but it does become better there.

Her 2, Psychic Bolts, can give you 100% defense reduction, which obviously is great against enemies with lots of armor, and pointless against easy enemies you can just slice up in one hit. So again, High level play ability. I use it against the bombers in Sortie or Steel Path Disruption, where the slow also helps.

Her 3, Chaos, is great for keeping Nyx and everyone else including defense objectives alive. It's both CC and makes enemies attack each other so you get some damage too. In Low levels you actually want the enemies to come to you so you can kill them faster, instead of wandering around attacking each other, so it might seem like she's bad, but once the enemies start getting dangerous, she'd perfect. And the augment for this is actually good too.

Her 4, Absorb, it's just immortality, which in low levels you're not going to need. I'm not actually a fan of this ability, but apparently Adaptation stacks through it so that's pretty cool. I've also seen people use her augment to walk with it and the mod that draws aggro when you're shielding with weapons to do some interesting things. While it does damage, I wouldn't use it for that. In high level it could be nice to have the walking augment and turn on Absorb while reviving allies, though your operator generally does just as well with that.

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I use Nyx for certain steel path solo missions like interception, mobile defence or excavation. I use high efficiency, high range build with helminth infused shooting gallery... and that's it, the whole level is CCed. All enemies are under chaos and can't shoot (so it saves me from occasional stray shots), plus I usually mind control someone to give enemies an extra target to shoot at. If something goes wrong, I pop absorb with the augment to give myself a breathing room and kill some enemies that are in the way (I rarely need it though). Feels very nice, probably the best frame for me for solo interceptions, or if you just want to support a pub with almost complete CC lockdown (unless it's defence or survival, where you actually want enemies to rush you and not be on the other side of the map).

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On 2021-01-15 at 11:26 AM, Tsuana said:

1 is useless. I replaced it with condemn. Best decision I ever made. Other than that just keep mashing 3, you'll need to cause enemy ai can be very finicky sometimes. Truth be told I'm mainly using her for the strip and her asthetic. But my god does she look good.

Assimilate is a preference thing. Use it with healing return as a get out of jail free card except against nullies. Alternatively go buy Magus rejuvenate (as least I think that's the name) and just mash 5 when you #*!% up.

I stopped using the min max build in things like SP precisely because of finicky AI and am gonna invested in an umbra build so she get 2.5k+ ehp. I think she needs it.

hildryn pillage is  better

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She's my go to frame for killing acolytes, liches etc. Activate 4, walk towards your target, bombard them with your 2, then kill them ded.

also dat graxx skin... mmmm peak fashion frame

Edited by Kaggelos
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