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Operators: how do you feel about their current state ?


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now given operators are a component of our warframe experience after the second dream and tied to our playthrough ever since then. 

given their importance to the game as a whole , you'd think they would have a more capabilities , given they are void empowered entities 

the focus schools still feel incomplete and needing a hammer or rework

we have simple amp weapon(s), and we really can only use them in tangent with excalibur umbras specter  or say a necromech (new) , but should they be expanded on to be more playable by themselves? or say have more to them such as given they can use a frame to use the weapons, why not let them have the ability to use  melee weapons, and primary /secondary weapons? its not out of the question, as we already know they can use them when piloting a frame.

Edited by (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako
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I greatly miss the old operator implementation from The Second Dream, before The War Within. Back then, you couldn't transfer out and just walk around as your operator. You didn't use amps. Instead, you built-up operator energy over time, and could eventually press 5 to release your operator as a large ultimate ability. Personally, I think that was much more interesting and much more fitting for the game.

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9 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

I greatly miss the old operator implementation from The Second Dream, before The War Within. Back then, you couldn't transfer out and just walk around as your operator. You didn't use amps. Instead, you built-up operator energy over time, and could eventually press 5 to release your operator as a large ultimate ability. Personally, I think that was much more interesting and much more fitting for the game.

While this was nice you would now need another way to deal with sentient resistance then. Cause I remember the first time I had to kill those A******s, I was jumping around like a monkey waiting for my operator to recharge and getting killed all the time. That's not really a problem these days.

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In a word, clunky.

In more words?

Well, I think a good way to describe it is to look at their main mobility technique - the void dash. And by main, I mean it is their only major element of mobility. It's a mid-ranged dash that can be chained with itself to cover long distances. But it's ultimately got no subtley, you travel a set distance, it has no momentum whatsoever, and if you find yourself just missing something the only thing you can do to recover is throw yourself another 15-20 metres in the approximate direction you want to go in. It's fast, but it's ultimately more restrictive than it is freeing.

Operators apparently have a lot of power locked up, but it's tied under layers of clunky systems and dubious integration. It also lacks a lot of the pizzaz that Warframes proper have, with Operator powers typically being understated and lacking a lot of the visual flair that Warframes have. Just compare their void effects to that of Xakus!

Spoiler

81LuCJj.jpg

rEkriHD.jpg

 

One need only look to the likes of Ori and the Will of the Wisps or Kingdom Hearts - or hell, even Destiny to some extent -  to see what a being touched by some higher power (coincidentally 'light' in all three examples) can be depicted as.

Actually, not even that. Whilst I think that Operators have far more interesting possibilities as a player character than as an ultimate, I do have to admit, Transcendence was far more interesting and fitting from a visual and thematic perspective.

Spoiler

Why do we need to enter into Operator Mode to activate our passive? -  General Discussion - Warframe Forums

 

 

In short: Operators desperately need expansion to let them truly capitalise on their thematic and mechanical potential.

Edited by Loza03
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Amazing 10/10 from a story and lore perspective and as a gameplay mechanic.

The current waybounds and abilities we have could use an extra node on them, so unlocking a node will give a 100% chance for an Unairu Wisp, for 120% damage for 15 seconds etc. 

We'd get an increase in operator movement speed, void dash soeed, more energy and energy regeneration, more void strike stacks etc.

 

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31 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

I greatly miss the old operator implementation from The Second Dream, before The War Within. Back then, you couldn't transfer out and just walk around as your operator. You didn't use amps. Instead, you built-up operator energy over time, and could eventually press 5 to release your operator as a large ultimate ability. Personally, I think that was much more interesting and much more fitting for the game.

So you want less freedom and to relegate the operator to a simple one and done repeatable "press x ability"? 

Glad it's not that way anymore. 

People have the option to run full missions as operator, which they wouldn't be able to do otherwise.

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They still need a better walk speed/animation, I don't care if the void dash is 90% of their movement, their movement animations while in combat look like somebody looking for a bathroom.

Also only partially related, they need to make Vox Solaris not suffer from an obnoxious RNG wall in the form of Systems farm, even years of on-off farming later I still don't have that Syndicate past rank 1.

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6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

They still need a better walk speed/animation, I don't care if the void dash is 90% of their movement, their movement animations while in combat look like somebody looking for a bathroom.

Make sure to equip a maxed Magus Cadence for the ultimate looking for a bathroom experience.

 

Anyway, a lot of their powers are supposed to provide an all-rounder kit to every frame (armor strip, finishers, etc), but these are limited by having very short durations and/or by being tied to hitting enemies with either void dash or void blast, which are both clunky to use in combat (no issues with void dash as a mobility tool - it's not exactly easy to control but it greatly rewards players who can control it, and Warframe needs more skill-based gameplay). And with how much "just kill everything" solves every problem in the game, having a bit of utility in your operator pocket is almost pointless anyway - in the event you really want/need the little things they can provide, you'll probably want a lot of it, so you'll just bring a specialized frame/weapon to do the job.

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The og operators were much better. Having them as an optional Cc ability was nice and I didn't have to zoom in ad out to get the energy regen. That was such a pointless nerf to zenurik. Well the entire system got a pointless nerf honestly.

I feel like the og operators just gave us more advantage.

Now it's just choose one out of 2 or 3 somewhat useful schools and use them when the content needs them to be used. Outside of some missions they tend to be useless. 

Really the movement, healing, and extra energy is what they are ever good for.

I wish they would keep the current transference but add back the transcendence and some of the original features.

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I'm torn...

I do want kids to be more interesting. but knowing DE, there's no way they could implement something without overcomplicating plenty of other unnecessary aspects.

Which i would hate more, I'd rather have things the way they are.

45 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

I greatly miss the old operator implementation from The Second Dream, before The War Within. Back then, you couldn't transfer out and just walk around as your operator. You didn't use amps. Instead, you built-up operator energy over time, and could eventually press 5 to release your operator as a large ultimate ability. Personally, I think that was much more interesting and much more fitting for the game.

Chest beam was pretty epic wasn't it? You finished a story quest and you're rewarded with a pretty op "panic button".

After the war within, i felt like i was being "punished" with a weak mote amp and all those convoluted skill tree system. I had to build standings with TWO new factions just to craft new amp that i have no idea how they'll work. It truly felt like a punishment indeed.

Kid mode only start to feel good after you continuously wreak havoc in corpus bases, murdered a bunch of ancient giants, spent endless nights circling every ponds on earth, and dress them up in pretty outfits.

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I sort of want to like it because I find the utility fun but they've also been designed to be specifically demanding with installing lenses, collecting focus bubbles and watching a slow crawl of gain or specifically going out to do focus farming does not feel like it's worth the time to try everything else out? Once you have the ability to break sentient shields and handle Kuva stuff, do energizing + protective dash and void dash from one spot to the next everything else feels really superfluous yet exceedingly demanding to unlock.

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I like them but would change them to be more relevant to gameplay.

Add a camouflage effect for any one who has not done 2ed dream.

Remove the ability to revive while void walking.

Reduce revives to 1

Add when your Warframe is downed you automatically become your operator and can revive your self. On death you transfer back into your downed Warframe. On downed timer expire you die.

Just this would give a reason to upgrade your operator.

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Occasionally the operator is fun to use as a combat system (after the improvements the Vox brought). I'd say level ~60 grineer is the upper limit where I have fun, especially if you're trying to go deathless in a system with no shield gating.

But the operator should just be a massive slew of utility, much like they already are. IMO there's no reason to give them any other purpose.

  • Energy regen
  • Traversal
  • Arcane/node Healing
  • Arcane/node CC
  • Easy reviving
  • Makes every frame decent a spy missions
  • Sentient adaption strip
  • Etc...

So while it's sometimes fun, I couldn't care less if they deal damage/tank. There's no reason to have systems like that when we already have Warframes. I want something to compliment what's already there, not compete with it. It's the same problems that Necramechs have; They try to compete with frames for no reason, and only eke into usefulness because the Arquebex has bonkers stats (but that could have just been a Warframe ability).

-------------

And it was before my time, but the "ghost" operators were worthless outside of endurance runs (3-5 minute wait times), so I'm glad they're gone. And even then it was only 2 nodes. An AFK version of Energizing Dash, and a very over tuned invisibility.

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1 hour ago, Aldain said:

They still need a better walk speed/animation, I don't care if the void dash is 90% of their movement, their movement animations while in combat look like somebody looking for a bathroom.

Also only partially related, they need to make Vox Solaris not suffer from an obnoxious RNG wall in the form of Systems farm, even years of on-off farming later I still don't have that Syndicate past rank 1.

i really hate that equipping the amps make them hunchback animations for running walking 

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I don't think there is any reason the operator should have ever been able to leave their chair. The game is called Warframe for a reason, and that's what I like most about it. Actual operator play feels like a downgrade and distraction from the fun core of warframe gameplay.

I liked the Second Dream-level focus system in that it was mostly passives that changed the way you played your warframe, as well as a high-cooldown power-surge ability that worked as a panic button but didn't fundamentally change how you played. Most of the actual passive abilities from that time weren't appealing or fun, and they should have been active when you loaded in rather than after your first focus activation, but otherwise I preferred the old system.

Also, we should start missions with full energy. There's no reason we shouldn't, especially if we have operators who can just generate it for us.

Edited by freeformline
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The initial operator form still exists! All you have to do is never start War Within. It struck as me as really weird to have that system exist for just the gap between two quests, but apparently a really long time passed between the release of the two.

I have gripes.

Am I supposed to relate to this character? Why are they such a boring stiff, then? Why do they care so much about Lotus during sacrifice? I almost related for a while when it sounded like operator only wanted to get their hands on that sweet sword and shiny new warframe.

Why is operator mode basically unusable when I play online?

Why does my screen turn black when I Yoshi over a pit?

Why isn't Zenurik ring just a passive? It costs nothing to put out so it might as well be, yet it's a massive pain to apply it every 10/15/20/25/30 seconds after spending literal months gaining focus for it. No decision making involved here, only a chore.

Transference is still holding? Thanks for telling me! I actually would like to hear operator quips, but at about 1/10 of the rate and more of them need to be interesting. That one time my operator actually reacted to Hyena pack? That was a great moment! As it stands, I turned off operator quips just like everyone else.

I'd love to just ignore the mechanic altogether, but I'm forced to endure quite a lot of operator-related grind in order to hunt Eidelons and whatnot. It'll be quite a while until I hunt Eidelons.

In one word I'd describe the current state as "sad". There's a lot of content trying to coax you into liking operator ("That did it! Your operator form is key!"), but none to actually make operator likeable. Every default cosmetic and face looking like a dumpster doesn't help.

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Know those Void ghosts on Lua? That's what Operators should have been: Oro made manifest by the Void. Imagine you're a Grineer and you're fighting for your life against an unstoppable Tenno, and then it just stops and slumps over. And then this thing crawls out of it and starts tearing people in half and throwing lightning around!

Duelista - [3.10] Slayer Lightning Strike | Inpulsa + Storm's Gift | Insane  clear-speed | All end-game content - Fórum - Path of Exile

Instead we got this...

7gxIjZp.png

Ok, well maybe they'll grow up and become cool space ninjas or something? Like there'll be a training montage with Teshin where I'll Make a Man Out of You plays and the Operator learns to fight without their Warframe? Right? Well it's been five years and there still ain't no montage!

Gameplay-wise they're like a lot of DE's other systems in that they can't stack up in combat so they've been relegated to a utility role. Their only value is that they can move fast and not die, which is the same as the one Archwing that matters right now. It's a shame that this is all they're good for. Story-wise, Operators need to grow the heck up already. It's my dearest hope that they actually grow up in Duviri and it isn't some stupid mechanic where you can only be an adult in that one zone. Sure, they're not crazy #*!%in' energy monsters like the Void ghosts or Vor, but it'd still be badass to have our Operators actually grow up and mature as a character, have a real weapon and role in combat, and fight along their arsenal of awakened Umbral Warframes. Warping through enemy gunfire, blasting people, doing combo takedowns with their frame, stuff like that. It'd be a heck of a lot cooler than mY WaRFrAmE iS StRoNg and mommy issues.

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Here are my 2 cents/wishes for our operators!

First, it need to have a ultimate ability again like it had before. It give that feeling that the operator is something powerfull.

The schools needs rework, like alot of rework. Some nodes are even bad to have in the current meta. Which is just hilarious bad game design

The animation and stance is still pretty bad.

The amp feels pretty boring, as they are just a flat damage. It need mods support.

To make the operators feel more integrated to the warframe playstyle, they need to have melee weapons of some sort. Phase blade or like void blades would really be a cool addition to the operator arsenal. Make like an ult ability. Or maybe just make a new line of small finess weapons they can equip. Or something like that :D

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I'd say they're fine as is functionality wise. Given that Transference is already their primary ability and the frames themselves are the focal-point of gameplay I don't think they need to be doing a whole lot more on their own than they already can. Plus issues like their fragility, damage, and poor mobility are already mostly made up for with focus, arcanes, and amps. I'd even say that their early shortcomings is appropriate on a lore level considering how much our operators don't know/forgot about themselves and their own powers.

Balance wise they're a mess due to how they made infinite healing and energy completely free. Though the healing issue is also found in other systems already and the energy issue is a deeply rooted mess with multiple game systems. There is also the issue of how niche some of the focus trees still are and how overshadowed they all are to Zenurik. And how awful a lot of operator arcanes are but this seems to be a feature of arcanes in general at this point.

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right now the little sisters (operators) need the big daddys (warframes) to defend them while they revive the angels (downed team members) soon the little sisters (operators) will grow up into big sisters (grown up operators) and be more tougher .....

whoops wrong game this isnt bioshock.....well DE did work on bioshock 2 but this is warframe and defenly not that other game (especily sine that game the little sisters were unkillable) and in this game the kid takes a shot and kicks you back to frame....wait the kid isnt ded so ......?

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vor 7 Stunden schrieb Lutesque:

I have only 3 Words:

CLIENT SIDE TRANSFERENCE !!!

That is all... 😤 !!!

 

Pretty much this.. And fixes, for example sometimes I dash on paper, but I'm stuck in place.. 

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they aren't that bad IMO. used to dislike them at first but over time the added mobility ahs proven useful, plus Magus Repair allowed me to start running squishier frames like Banshee without as much fear of being constantly downed. there are a few things I'd like them to get though:

melee weapons: if your Amp is depleted you have no way to fight back, and it would also be really cool to have. I'm thinking wrist mounted blade-amps, which goes with operator's theme of wrist-mounted weapons and doesn't require more than basic swinging animations to use (seems like we're only martial arts masters within our Warframe).

dialogue changes: the operator's lines are the cringiest dialogue in the entire game. sure, we "fought with honor" by using a Kuva Nukor and Spores to literally clear the room before the enemy even sees us. giving them voices was a mistake IMO. hopefully adult operators will be more mature.

return the Sun/Moon system: even DE forgot about this, but I would like it if future cinematic quests bring back the Sun/Moon system, and preferably with meaningful choices that actually have consequences. of course, this is a massive undertaking that requires three times as much writing as a linear quest, so i highly doubt it will ever happen, but it's fun to think about.

Operators are one of those things I can accept, but putting them center stage usually hasn't gone all that well. still hate that bloody golden maw..

 

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