Duality52 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 For reference, Banshee's Silence does more than just a stun and making enemies oblivious in stealth runs, but it negates and nullifies enemy abilities. This heavily negates the threat of Ancient/Scorpion whips and even the Stalker's Acolytes in the Steel Path. To extend the usage of the nullification provided by Banshee's Silence, the ability should be able to negate the effects of passive auras by Eximus enemies: Enemy Leech/Parasitic Eximus's energy drain Arson/Caustic Eximus's Heat resistance Artic/Frozen Eximus's Cold resistance Shock Eximus's Electric resistance Venomous Eximus's Toxin resistance Guardian Eximus's shield regeneration aura Leech/Sanguine Eximus's Life steal I'm not, however, suggesting to extend the nullification of the Infested Ancient's auras (Ancient Healer, Ancient Disruptor, and Toxin Ancient) or Shield Ospreys as that will leave them completely powerless and worthless. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 This is a bad idea considering silence is subsumable. If this change were to go into effect then the subsumed ability would need changed. The ability to shut down all passive auras is incredibly overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffel Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I feel like a better way to deal with this, in order to prevent any subsume shenanigans and nerfing disputes, I feel like this could instead be an additional passive that Banshee has, and one that can extend using her Silence as to give it to other players. I feel like just giving the ability itself this would be insane, so I feel like making it apart of her passive would not only be safer but also give Banshee some unique survivability on her own, since she has an easier time dealing with the Energy Drains and the Life Steals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LoisGordils Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 16 hours ago, Leqesai said: This is a bad idea considering silence is subsumable. If this change were to go into effect then the subsumed ability would need changed. The ability to shut down all passive auras is incredibly overpowered. Overpowered? Not in the slightest considering enemies die so fast anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duality52 Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 21 hours ago, Leqesai said: The ability to shut down all passive auras is incredibly overpowered. I should've rephrased it into disabling Eximus auras, namely the Energy Leech/Parasitic energy drain aura. I've already acknowledged that disabling all passive auras would render certain enemy types worthless: Quote I'm not, however, suggesting to extend the nullification of the Infested Ancient's auras (Ancient Healer, Ancient Disruptor, and Toxin Ancient) or Shield Ospreys as that will leave them completely powerless and worthless. Besides, Silence cannot negate gunfire. It's overexaggerating if Silence is deemed "overpowered". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 23 hours ago, Duality52 said: Thoughts? I'd love to play test it. Off hand though, I think I'd exclude energy leech. When you say "resistance" do you mean the bonuses to the unit and its allies, the debuffs on player resistance, or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acos Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 I'm not really in favor of making Eximus units easier, nor do I think Banshee should have some specific advantage over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Duality52 said: I should've rephrased it into disabling Eximus auras, namely the Energy Leech/Parasitic energy drain aura. I've already acknowledged that disabling all passive auras would render certain enemy types worthless: Besides, Silence cannot negate gunfire. It's overexaggerating if Silence is deemed "overpowered". Disabling energy leech auras is incredibly powerful... Even if it did nothing to any other unit, shutting down energy leeches with the push of one button, for 30s+ is overpowered. "Besides silence cannot negate gunfire" Right... but you are suggesting silence be able to shut down eximus auras. Silence is a subsumable ability. This means that a number of warframes would be easily overpowered by pairing silence with their kit. Ivara, loki, hildryn, octavia, nekros off the top of my head would all benefit a lot from silence shutting down energy leeches... Any warframe with high energy drain on one of their abilities, or strong cc would benefit a lot from such a change. If it were only banshee that could do this then it would make a lot more sense but giving this ability to all frames is overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 7 hours ago, (PSN)LoisGordils said: Overpowered? Not in the slightest considering enemies die so fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimCorsair Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Silence doesn't need to knock out auras alongside its already incredibly strong effect of shutting down all but a tiny handful of special attacks or moves in the game. Hell, it even stops most of the special skills granted by auras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fo3nixz Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 silence is fine as is. basically the only protection the infested against us is that . & now and then energy leech form other enemy faction aint so bad. it only goes hectic with leeches when goin 60min+ missions. my recommendation: just make eximus more easily identifiable for people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 10 hours ago, fo3nixz said: silence is fine as is. basically the only protection the infested against us is that . & now and then energy leech form other enemy faction aint so bad. it only goes hectic with leeches when goin 60min+ missions. my recommendation: just make eximus more easily identifiable for people For the love of mustard this. Eximus units are incredibly hard to identify. There should be a different texture color for them. Something that is really obvious. I've never really understood why eximus units didn't have completely different models from their regular counterparts to make it easier to identify them. Also... ffs nerf the enemy units with auras/bubbles that disable abilities. It makes no sense that the nullifier bubbles, which are already really powerful, stop bullets and such from hurting them. Give the units a ton more health/shields and stop the bubbles from stopping bullets/explosions. Make it so the only way you can pop the bubble is via miter and destroying the little drone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)mahoshonenfox Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 2021-01-18 at 3:52 AM, Leqesai said: This is a bad idea considering silence is subsumable. If this change were to go into effect then the subsumed ability would need changed. The ability to shut down all passive auras is incredibly overpowered. I actually like the idea to give the ability more things to negate. I don't see how its over powered since Banish is an ability that's also subsumable. Not very many people know this but if you Banish an eximus, its aura gets cut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 hours ago, (PSN)mahoshonenfox said: I actually like the idea to give the ability more things to negate. I don't see how its over powered since Banish is an ability that's also subsumable. Not very many people know this but if you Banish an eximus, its aura gets cut off. Banish requires you to target the unit... Silence is a large aoe that affects numerous targets at once without any effort by the player... Do you really think comparing banish to this absurd buff to silence is appropriate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Leqesai said: Banish requires you to target the unit... Silence is a large aoe that affects numerous targets at once without any effort by the player... Do you really think comparing banish to this absurd buff to silence is appropriate? Target is a bit harsh. Banish is a pretty generous cone. So long as you have a target within 35m (base range) and ~15° of your reticule it will cast. Disabling Eximus auras really just boils down to disabling Arctic Eximus slow auras and Parasitic Eximus, as they are the only ones with really tangible effects not already negated by Silence. The more relevant effects of the others are disabled by radiation procs already. Offers Silence an interesting niche while still fitting into its theme. I just wish that the ability description made it more clear that it already disables enemy abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)mahoshonenfox Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Leqesai said: Banish requires you to target the unit... Silence is a large aoe that affects numerous targets at once without any effort by the player... Do you really think comparing banish to this absurd buff to silence is appropriate? Yes because the wave angle range scales like ice wave. You can banish all enemies in your general direction with enough range. Additionally, it goes through walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Frost_Nephilim Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 2021-01-17 at 2:52 PM, Leqesai said: This is a bad idea considering silence is subsumable. If this change were to go into effect then the subsumed ability would need changed. The ability to shut down all passive auras is incredibly overpowered. No, DE can literally just diminish its effects like they did rhinos roar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Frost_Nephilim Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 2021-01-17 at 2:30 PM, Duality52 said: Thoughts While i think this is definently a really cool idea, i dont think it fits banshee. She uses sound waves and stuff, what your purposing sounds more like magic suiting a warframe like xaku, or yet to be created warframes like Cerberus, Angelic warframes, or a witch theme. Sorry man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 12 hours ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said: While i think this is definently a really cool idea, i dont think it fits banshee. She uses sound waves and stuff, what your purposing sounds more like magic suiting a warframe like xaku, or yet to be created warframes like Cerberus, Angelic warframes, or a witch theme. Sorry man Would you take away her current ability do do the same "magic" thing? Honestly, I'd bet plat it's an intentional callback to D&D "Silence" spells, even if some of the effects in this game are nonsensical if you look at them at all closely in that context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Frost_Nephilim Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 On 2021-01-21 at 12:23 PM, Tiltskillet said: Would you take away her current ability do do the same "magic" thing? Honestly, I'd bet plat it's an intentional callback to D&D "Silence" spells, even if some of the effects in this game are nonsensical if you look at them at all closely in that context. I dont know what you tried to ask here If youre saying would i take away her cirrent ability for magic, answer is a FAT No Sound waves allow for too much creativity in ability ideas. To give up so easily on staying true to the theme is a bit absurd, especially the degree that youre asking for. Theres a damage buff that you get in simlaricrum (however the heck u spell it) when enemies are paused, due to some form of stealth bonus. Id apply it to silence in someway when enemies are not currently targetting you (knockdowns give you the bonus but ither forms of cc shouldnt work) For 1 example Buff her 4th to provide some sort of knockdown/knock out too. Like if you use her 1 while using her 4, enemies affected will be knocked out for several seconds, ending the ability and draining 50 energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiltskillet Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 7 hours ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said: On 2021-01-21 at 9:23 AM, Tiltskillet said: Would you take away her current ability do do the same "magic" thing? Honestly, I'd bet plat it's an intentional callback to D&D "Silence" spells, even if some of the effects in this game are nonsensical if you look at them at all closely in that context. I dont know what you tried to ask here It's simply that she already has capabilities to which you were objecting based on them not being related to sound, and so, do you object to those as well? For example, Scorpions under Silence cannot throw harpoons and Bursa can't use their special launchers . It's a stretch to tie this to sonic control.. And if we make that stretch, the same flexibility could be applied to the OP's proposal if we wanted. If I'm interpreting your answer correctly, you're ok with what she's got already that isn't sonic themed in nature, you just don't want to add to that issue. Is that correct? 7 hours ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said: To give up so easily on staying true to the theme is a bit absurd, especially the degree that youre asking for. To be clear, I'm not the OP, and I haven't made up my mind about the proposal. I just don't have objections to it based on theme. Sort of off-topic but... 7 hours ago, (PSN)IIFrost_GhostII said: Theres a damage buff that you get in simlaricrum (however the heck u spell it) when enemies are paused, due to some form of stealth bonus. Id apply it to silence in someway when enemies are not currently targetting you (knockdowns give you the bonus but ither forms of cc shouldnt work) The overlaps too much with Savage Silence IMO, although I could imagine shifting some portion of that to the base ability and adding something to the augment. I do like the idea of adding more synergy between her abilities, which is what I think you're going for. A frequent proposal along the same lines is to make Sonic Boom or ragdolls/knockdowns in general reapply the stun of Silence. This gives some additional CC, and, if you're using Savage Silence, more opportunity for the stealth damage multiplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Frost_Nephilim Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said: The overlaps too much with Savage Silence IMO If it means giving the ability a chance and saving the theme Id just "nerf" savage silence to the point where it deals the same damage it did before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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