(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Lavos is fun, requires some tweaks and buffs, but i've already put my feedback on the thread specific for that. i'm just here to talk about how he lacks any way to deal with enemies that don't care about status. no elemental damage buffs or multipliers he can't do anything against bosses. i personally like to test all warframes against Profit taker orb, but i can't find a reason to take him there. Gauss has no damage buffs, but at least he has Huge Dps buffs and good survivability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmuTanno88 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 If you test warframes against profit taker, won't anything that doesn't have damage/dps capability look terrible? Profit taker (at least to me) seems to be a really specific criteria. Status immune enemies are an annoyance in general, the boss tweaks helped that a little but not very much. Hoping that DE adresses the whole status vs crit issue in the future, preferably sooner over later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trst Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 If anything they've been moving away from full immunity already. But besides even for the ones that are still immune he's one of the tankiest frames, has a heal, and has great mobility which is all a lot more than squishy "caster" frames have going for them in things like PT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kainosh Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Well.... Maybe he will get some self buff as Augment? For example, Augment for his Bite that would add (on cast) current Vial element to your weapon, similar to Shock Trooper and other "infusion" style 1st augments... That would make him pretty good against PT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrmius_Prime Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, trst said: If anything they've been moving away from full immunity already. More than half the enemies in Cambion Drift are fully immune to viral, which is a huge contribution to Lavos's damage and it is probably his single most important status proc in addition to being able to stack the rest of the different elements of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they had to make a Critical immune boss soon. The balance is so broken that slapping immunity on everything is the only way they have any durability, well either that or smashing unremovable damage resistance in every orifice an enemy has. I don't even know why people complained about Lavos having cooldowns when Ability nullifiers and Ability/Status immunity are being tossed around like candy these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheMadCash Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 29 minutes ago, Kainosh said: Well.... Maybe he will get some self buff as Augment? For example, Augment for his Bite that would add (on cast) current Vial element to your weapon, similar to Shock Trooper and other "infusion" style 1st augments... That would make him pretty good against PT. That would be greatly appreciated if we got that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)C11H22O11 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said: More than half the enemies in Cambion Drift are fully immune to viral Gee I wonder why 58 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said: i personally like to test all warframes against Profit taker orb, but i can't find a reason to take him there. You're talking like Lavos is the only one that struggles in that fight, that just isn't a good place to test a warframe's strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfdoggie Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 considering Grendel, I think they like WF powers being useless on bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said: considering Grendel, I think they like WF powers being useless on bosses. At least grendel's Pulverize deals some good damage to some high level enemies without reliance on a primer aka status effects Lavos is COMPLETELY reliant on status, it's cool and all i love it when it works, but when it doesn't it's very worrying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, JimmuTanno88 said: If you test warframes against profit taker, won't anything that doesn't have damage/dps capability look terrible? Profit taker (at least to me) seems to be a really specific criteria. Status immune enemies are an annoyance in general, the boss tweaks helped that a little but not very much. Hoping that DE adresses the whole status vs crit issue in the future, preferably sooner over later. I love the orb because it's a good challenge for survivability, damage output and support if i go with friends... Don't blame me, testing Warframes against normal level enemies is boring And steel path is overbuffed enemies for no reason Orb is perfect for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reitrix Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Aldain said: Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they had to make a Critical immune boss soon. The balance is so broken that slapping immunity on everything is the only way they have any durability, well either that or smashing unremovable damage resistance in every orifice an enemy has. I don't even know why people complained about Lavos having cooldowns when Ability nullifiers and Ability/Status immunity are being tossed around like candy these days. The only way DE is ever going to fix our ludicrous damage is to completely overhaul damage mechanics from the ground up. Many weapons have multiple damage types, but the numbers on them are so low that there is barely any point to them. Like Scindo being 25/25/200. You'll never be able to make the Impact or Puncture actually viable so why even have them present? Elemental Mods need to convert total damage into the element in question, not just add up all the numbers present and tack on a new giant number. Example being a weapon with 200 Slash and a 90% Toxin Mod would turn into 20 Slash // 180 Toxin. Breaks us away from virtually every weapon build just being crammed full of elemental and general damage mods. Leaves room for non DPS Mods to exist without making the weapon useless. If they ever want Status to be useful, they need break away from combining Elements to form Magnetic, Viral etc. Allowing a Status weapon to have all 4 forms of DoT at once could make those effects catch up to Crit. Turning the combined elements like Viral etc, into Mods like we do for the base elements would help as well. They also need to bake in or flatly remove Viral's damage multiplier and replace it with an effect that causes Status effects to chain from a Viral affected target to nearby targets, essentially making those effects "viral" and infecting nearby enemies. But thats just me rambling, wishing DE would make damage interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Reitrix said: But thats just me rambling, wishing DE would make damage interesting. Remember when they did actually try to overhaul damage types and status, and when they tried to balance melee weapons crazy but lazy damage output? I remember, and everyone freaked out and prepared the "i quit warframe" posts. That's why we can't have nice things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said: Remember when they did actually try to overhaul damage types and status, and when they tried to balance melee weapons crazy but lazy damage output? I remember, and everyone freaked out and prepared the "i quit warframe" posts. That's not even remotely close to the hysterical meltdowns people had over the Bramma imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReddyDisco Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 everything is powercreeped so high that making enemies immune to certain elements is the only way for them to survive few seconds, i see more status immune or crit immune enemies/bosses being added in the future tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said: More than half the enemies in Cambion Drift are fully immune to viral I agree with you only because DE screwed up Gas damage and haven't fixed it yet. Meaning your argument should be stupid, but in practice we have no incentive to bother swapping from Viral to Gas for fighting Infested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Well we don't have that many status immune enemies. But I have to say Deimos can be a real headache sometimes due to the Saxum. That enemy is the worst. It moves weird it's hard to hit and on top of that it's status immune. And the cloud it shoots blocks your fire. So you have to move around him constantly while he's spinning all over the place. And the fact that he's status immune doesn't help the situation. I don't even bother with the Big Saxum. I just grab a Voidrig and use that to deal with him. But again thankfully most enemies are not status immune. So this isn't that big of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 14 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said: he can't do anything against bosses. i personally like to test all warframes against Profit taker orb, but i can't find a reason to take him there. PT doesnt equal all bosses. We have a handful of bosses that are immune to status effects, PT being one of those. The rest have been reworked to allow for status application, which means Lavos can make near full use of his #4 status damage stack sync against them. Using PT as an example doesnt really show anything for that matter, since even if he wasnt status immune, Lavos would still be SoL like 90% of the roster, since PT is still immune to abilities and Lavos extra status application aswell as that which relies on status stacking comes 100% from skills. So your problem isnt an actual problem, the problem of WF is that too many things are immune to abilities. 11 hours ago, Reitrix said: Elemental Mods need to convert total damage into the element in question, not just add up all the numbers present and tack on a new giant number. Example being a weapon with 200 Slash and a 90% Toxin Mod would turn into 20 Slash // 180 Toxin. Breaks us away from virtually every weapon build just being crammed full of elemental and general damage mods. Leaves room for non DPS Mods to exist without making the weapon useless. Glad to see others that have that idea in their head. Now if only DE would realize it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrmius_Prime Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 14 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said: Gee I wonder why I wonder why DE still haven't bothered making Gas not suck asscheeks against infested. The Damage 2.0 system will turn 8 years old this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keikogi Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said: Absolutely wrong. I remember how khora was butchered because people lost their S#&$ so hard that they literally stopped development of damage changes until later where Steve tried stuff out with railjack. Because the changes were visible terrible. Yeah launching an enemy into the extrarhosphere with a impact proc is funny but it literally makes my goal off killing him harder. That's a well tough off change. Also DE has a terrible trac record of understanding its own damage system. Case in point Condition Overloaded has its exponential scaling removed because it was broken and them the tear status effects comes with a better version of condition overload as its proc. Also the system is overall overly complex and that complexity does not gain any build diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Status, as-is, might as well just be another kind of crit at this point. I mean, think about it - what does viral DO? It increases damage dealt to health. What does Crit do? It increases damage dealt. The only difference is how you get there, and even then, the actual mechanics of that aren't wildly different: shoot at enemy until RNG says you do more damage. Viral stacks and Crit has each 'more damage' be independent. Crit hypothetically does more burst damage whilst Viral is more consistent? But it's a bit moot at the end of the day since you can also apply them both anyway to get both benefits. The phrase 'opportunity cost' springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I don't have a problem with status-immune bosses. They're bosses; they're supposed to the stronger than cannon-fodder low-rank enemies. Status effects are so powerful that full immunity is the only thing DE can realistically and practically do in order to make bosses last a bit longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)FK2P Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 17 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said: More than half the enemies in Cambion Drift are fully immune to viral, which is a huge contribution to Lavos's damage and it is probably his single most important status proc in addition to being able to stack the rest of the different elements of course. Wow, You should make a seperate post on feedback specifically regarding this just because of how urgent it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teoarrk Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 All nuker frames have limitations. Profit Taker should not really be a litmus test for how good a nuker frame is. Lavos also does other things other than nuke, including healing and running away at high speed. Don't write him off because he isn't good at dealing with bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrmius_Prime Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, (PSN)FK2P said: Wow, You should make a seperate post on feedback specifically regarding this just because of how urgent it is. I just choose to let Lavos die in a hole. His whole kit is beyond salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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