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I love Lavos, but Don't you think we're drifting away from status attacks with every status immune enemy and boss that gets released?


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1 hour ago, (PSN)FK2P said:

Wow, You should make a seperate post on feedback specifically regarding this just because of how urgent it is. 

I just choose to let Lavos die in a hole. His whole kit is beyond salvation.

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vor 12 Minuten schrieb JackHargreav:

No. You just either don't know how to use him or you're just lazy to learn.

I reckon the second. I noticed Lavos actually requires players to think instead of mashing buttons. He's btw the only frame who requires that. Hence a lot of people S#&$ on him because mashing buttons for 8 years straight does have negative effects on the enjoyment of the game when all of a sudden mashing buttons isn't effective. 

And honestly, that's what I like about Lavos. If I #*!% up, or mash buttons, I'm locked out of casting for a while unless I get lucky and get 50 enemies to spawn immediately and well lined up, which doesn't exist in the game. 

While yes, it's punishing, it's also rewarding if you're able to pull it off. 

I hope we get more of those frames that aren't cast and forget. While I do enjoy my button mashing, having to use my brain once in a while isn't really that bad. 

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I don't think there's even that many immune enemies compared to all the enemies in the game. Many games present diverse enemies to make you switch things up. 

I know some people in this community are lazy and don't think they should ever have to change their loadouts, ever, which is just a dumb thing to think. 

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50 minutes ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

I reckon the second. I noticed Lavos actually requires players to think instead of mashing buttons.

Definitely. I thought in the beginning that I'm just gonna use one element all the time and such but actually it's worth to experiment around with all the elements and combine them according to the factions.

Which definitely changes how I approach fights. Especially on high level missions.

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59 minutes ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

You're beyond salvation, you just don't understand how to use him correctly

I know the potential of dealing millions of damage, but those cooldowns even when reduced with his 3 are just ass. That doesn't even account for enemy status immunities.

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1 hour ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

Weapons? have you tried using them?

Yeah sure, but it's why some Warframes with multipliers and Dps abilities shine more than others.

I took Nidus against profit taker, was he useful? Absolutely not, but i had weapons to do all the job for him

If lavos has the ability to imbue his weapons with modable elemental damage multiplier each time he uses one on abilities, he'd be perfect for me, in fact too perfect that i'd play nothing but lavos

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4 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

That doesn't even account for enemy status immunities.

The amount of status immune enemies is extremely minor, use your damn weapons if you want to kill them

6 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I know the potential of dealing millions of damage, but those cooldowns even when reduced with his 3 are just ass.

If you don't like the cooldown mechanics, ok, but don't say that his whole kit is ass, potentially discouraging other players who never tried him

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

I took Nidus against profit taker, was he useful? Absolutely not, but i had weapons to do all the job for him

Next thing you'll say is that Rhino is bad because his abilities are not stealthy for spy missions

Lavos isn't a frame for Profit-Taker, it's not his strength, that's all

Edited by Ailia_Grimm
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Being on console, I've only just got my hands on him.  3 forma in (including an umbra forma) and I like him a lot.

He's different to play for sure.  We're so used to the endless supply of energy and being able to spam every ability with impunity, having cooldowns certainly makes you think a bit more.  Although my build reduces those cooldowns to very little. 

He's a frame I feel encouraged to make an entire build around - primary, secondary, melee, operator, focus school - and I do enjoy this.  Much more involved than just whack everything with my condition overload/bloodrush melee.  Although c/o is obviously a core part of the build, it's because it directly compliments his abilities rather than the usual nukor/melee combo.

But he's not gonna be the best choice for every scenario.  Thank god, I like playing lots of frames. 

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3 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

No. You just either don't know how to use him or you're just lazy to learn.

This is a cookie cutter response that everyone brings to every feedback thread and it devalues any progress being made. People said that about ember, there was video evidence of her shocking damage potential- and still people said this response, the ammount of gimmicks and tricks slapped onto that warframe by the time she was buffed was basically replacing her entire kit anyway. I hate this response- especially when it’s in response to an objectively correct statement that lavos ~cannot function or use status~ against half of the enemies in the new world- however important that is, who knows. Status immunity is writhe, and it does exist, and that’s something Lavos is going to have to deal with. 

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1 hour ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

The amount of status immune enemies is extremely minor, use your damn weapons if you want to kill them

But they also tend to be the strongest enemies as well. That's why the kit falls flat when you need something else to help killing said enemies. Weak S#&$ can already be easily oneshot by even relatively weak weapons too.

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Honestly what they should do with Viral is turn it into a status that takes a percentage of the damage, stores it and then hits the enemy with it at the end of the duration.

Like a delayed charge sort of thing.

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8 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Honestly what they should do with Viral is turn it into a status that takes a percentage of the damage, stores it and then hits the enemy with it at the end of the duration.

Like a delayed charge sort of thing.

The enemies would be dead before it procced, it’s like the argument for nyx’s 1, or why no one ever uses status duration. 

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12 hours ago, (PSN)FK2P said:

The enemies would be dead before it procced, it’s like the argument for nyx’s 1, or why no one ever uses status duration. 

I mean that thought I had should have been preluded by "If they'd do a big stat squish/fix first" in all honestly.

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19 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

While yes, it's punishing, it's also rewarding if you're able to pull it off. 

People keep saying that, but what mysterious reward are you talking about?

Even in the best scenario, which only happens when playing solo, you pull of an AoE skill that in reality has around 20 times less DPS potential than any other in the game. And that is in the best scenario where you hit anough enemies with your 3 to reduce the CD in half. But even if you are off just a second with your release of the 3 your CD reduction takes a massive dirtnap.

So I'd like to hear all about that reward people are seeing.

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vor 19 Stunden schrieb Ailia_Grimm:

You're beyond salvation, you just don't understand how to use him correctly

The problem with Lavos is the clunky gameplay, requiring two to three button presses every single ability cast. There's no amount of "understanding how to use him" that could possibly get rid of that.

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11 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

The problem with Lavos is the clunky gameplay, requiring two to three button presses every single ability cast. There's no amount of "understanding how to use him" that could possibly get rid of that.

You can infuse your abilities during the cooldowns, I don't see what's clunky about that

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Ailia_Grimm:

You can infuse your abilities during the cooldowns, I don't see what's clunky about that

I'm sorry, are you deliberately ignoring what I wrote or is there some part of "requiring two to three button presses every single ability cast" that you need explained?

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1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

I'm sorry, are you deliberately ignoring what I wrote or is there some part of "requiring two to three button presses every single ability cast" that you need explained?

You only need to press one button to cast an ability, the others are infusing abilities with the status mechanic of Lavos, I know exactly what it is

That's why I told you you could do that during the cooldowns if you're not comfortable with imbuing on the fly, no need for the negativity

I guess Lavos just isn't a frame for you, stop playing him if you can't find him enjoyable, stop being so stubborn

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb SneakyErvin:

People keep saying that, but what mysterious reward are you talking about?

Even in the best scenario, which only happens when playing solo, you pull of an AoE skill that in reality has around 20 times less DPS potential than any other in the game. And that is in the best scenario where you hit anough enemies with your 3 to reduce the CD in half. But even if you are off just a second with your release of the 3 your CD reduction takes a massive dirtnap.

So I'd like to hear all about that reward people are seeing.

Being able to deal dmg and place almost all status effects on enemies with him (except IPS, which weapons are there for) feels different and more rewarding since his game play is about casting and placing abilities at the right time in the right place and requires more than just pressing one button mindlessly. (I know, after 8 years of mashing button x (depending on platform) is everything for the majority of players now.

And if something dares to survive his ultimate, it has so many status effects on it that it literally requires only a lvl 0 unformad weapon to give that enemy the rest. 

I like that he's not a press x to win frame, and you're being rewarded by playing him correctly by doing a nice amount of dmg and leave the enemies with dozens upon dozens of stacks of status effects in a large area. 

I'm not bothered about the cool downs, matter of fact, I'm thinking about trying builds with helminth and replace the CD reduction ability. That'd mean full CD on all abilities and I'm absolutely fine with it. 

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All in all I'm really enjoying him, funny enough, I haven't even scratched stat caps yet so there's even more potential, not to mention not even steel path requires you to imbue every single cast. And don't get me started on the Cedo.. I like that weapon too. 

In general, I'm using more guns when playing him instead of melee, and I'm still as good as with playing frames where you only Spam 1 ability and or pressing e until literal carpal tunnel. 

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Le 22/01/2021 à 22:30, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk a dit :

he can't do anything against bosses

Alot of bosses can suffer status, very few are actually immune to some status or all status. So he's not completely useless.
This is the same with Ash which has two abilities that work as finishers, finishers don't work on most bosses.

In a game where players have too much powers, nerfing some of them is a great way to make some enemies stronger. It's quite logical if you think about it.
Take the cold Status for example, slowing enemy by 75%, even worst if you pile up Nova's slow. Wouldn't all fights be too easy to read and react if the boss would just suffer all of these slows ? Not to mention extremely boring.

Just one of these two is already plenty crippling, when we were doing Scarlet Spear, it was quite rare to not have a nova in your squad to slow the enemies, as it was making the fight so much easier.
Boss fights are supposed to be more important and harder, a bigger obstacle. If you deal with a boss the way you deal with a common enemy then it's not that much of a boss is it ?

Now, since we're in Warframe, a boss fight with one enemy alone is too easy for Tennos. Most of the time a boss has a crowd of enemies tagging along, Lavos status would still work on them. Whether to kill them, slow them, or turn them against each other using Radiation. So when you say Lavos is useless this is not exactly true even for the status immune bosses.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

Being able to deal dmg and place almost all status effects on enemies with him (except IPS, which weapons are there for) feels different and more rewarding since his game play is about casting and placing abilities at the right time in the right place and requires more than just pressing one button mindlessly. (I know, after 8 years of mashing button x (depending on platform) is everything for the majority of players now.

And if something dares to survive his ultimate, it has so many status effects on it that it literally requires only a lvl 0 unformad weapon to give that enemy the rest. 

I like that he's not a press x to win frame, and you're being rewarded by playing him correctly by doing a nice amount of dmg and leave the enemies with dozens upon dozens of stacks of status effects in a large area. 

I'm not bothered about the cool downs, matter of fact, I'm thinking about trying builds with helminth and replace the CD reduction ability. That'd mean full CD on all abilities and I'm absolutely fine with it. 

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All in all I'm really enjoying him, funny enough, I haven't even scratched stat caps yet so there's even more potential, not to mention not even steel path requires you to imbue every single cast. And don't get me started on the Cedo.. I like that weapon too. 

In general, I'm using more guns when playing him instead of melee, and I'm still as good as with playing frames where you only Spam 1 ability and or pressing e until literal carpal tunnel. 

But he only spreads a max of 2 statuses at a time with his skills, the native one and the one you've blended together pre-cast. And like you say, you are ready to replace his 3, which makes me wanna ask one thing. How is that not a kit with a poor design? People are replacing the bread and butter skill of his kit since it doesnt fullfill the task it was planned to do. And people rightly replace it, because it is a trash skill in his kit and will do next to squat in groups and relies heavily on enemy density elsewhere when solo.

I still cannot see anything that is rewarding about playing him since spreading statuses is already more effectively done with guns or melee. Sure he can fart once every 35 sec and wipe out a crowd of mobs, which can be as easily done with a weapon, or far more steadily with other frames and their abilities without spam involved.

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